Pokemon Adventures R/B/G/Y Mafia

[BBM]

I'm such a great host... all those votals I've compiled!

On another note, Kay has been prodded. If she doesn't make a post by the end of the phase, I'll sub her during the night.

[Iris]

bbm thanks for ignoring me <3

[BBM]

bbm thanks for ignoring me <3

How could I ever ignore you?

[eclipse]

(not in the game, but. . .)

The default (SF green) makes light green hard to see. Maybe a darker green next time?

[NekoRex]

I purrfur Blue Skies, but I'll keep it in mind

[Paperblade]

I disagree with the Baldrick votes and suspicions after re-reading. The reasons Elie and j00 have voted him I feel are not justified by his actual actions. Especially the parts about asking lots of questions and changing/waffling on views. I do not see that in his posts.

His posts consist of comments like "This is odd but I can see why he'd do that" or "This is weird but I'm not sure what to make of it." He's also voteparked on Mancer (who he voted during RVS), who seems to be his primary suspect rationalized later as "not acting natural" without an explanation as to why.

tldr Baldrick please elaborate and tell us who you think is scum rather than just commenting on things

Don't really think much of Helios and Neko's fighting.

Also I dislike that JB's contribution to this game consists of getting a dumb wagon started on him to get us out of RVS and then sitting around waiting for Wren to say something when he himself has done nothing.

[Helios]

@Neko: At least you're acknowledging that I'm town. My post is based completely on what he said; that's as hard evidence as I can get. He waffled on his read on Paperblade, and then all of a sudden votes Elieson for being incomprehensible. That's all there is to it. I still really really don't like how you quoted random parts of sentences from my post completely out of context. I don't see a reason town ever needs to do that to make a case on someone.

Fair enough. So that means you think there's a possibility that both Elie and Paper are scumbuddies and arguing against each other inthread for towncred?

Looks like you're town!Wren read is starting to fade away a little. Bigger fish to fry huh? I can understand Elieson, but your cases on myself and Shinori seem weaker than your simple sentence about Wren's vote. Unless you're finding others scummy?

[Kay]

If I were scum I would say the post soft-defends Elieson. It still bothers me that the post looks like it's based on speculation and not hard facts. It looks like you're using your perspective to attack the post instead of the perspective of the other players.

It's mostly the wording that bothers me, not the message behind it, I guess.

All in all, Paper is null. He has good points and bad points, I can't really say where he stands. My gut says he might be town, however.

For the crossed out part, this kinda seems like a better example of a joke that might have an agenda. I mean, you can still make the same point by saying that jokingly, but won't be jumped on then. Sorry, but I don't like it.

Uh, what's wrong with speculating about motives? What sort of "facts" do you think are better to base things on, at this point in the game?

All in all, Paper is null, but you have a gut townread on him? Do you think he's scummy according to objective logic, then?

[BBM]

I've sent a prod to WREN too.

[Strawman]

His posts consist of comments like "This is odd but I can see why he'd do that" or "This is weird but I'm not sure what to make of it." He's also voteparked on Mancer (who he voted during RVS), who seems to be his primary suspect rationalized later as "not acting natural" without an explanation as to why.

Fair enough, but maybe as someone who posts opinions similarly I am just getting more out of the statements that others see as waffling.

WREN is getting shadier. I saw him in thread earlier today and he said nothing and Neko posted saying he saw him in the thread and he's still said nothing.

[NekoRex]

He waffled on his read on Paperblade, and then all of a sudden votes Elieson for being incomprehensible.

I'm not going to defend this because it's totally valid reasoning to vote WREN. In fact I probably wouldn't have been bothered personally if that's all you posted and put a vote with it.

I still really really don't like how you quoted random parts of sentences from my post completely out of context. I don't see a reason town ever needs to do that to make a case on someone.

I was specifically pointing out the wording which bothered me.

Fair enough. So that means you think there's a possibility that both Elie and Paper are scumbuddies and arguing against each other inthread for towncred?

I'm rather unskilled at speculation, so I wouldn't really be able to stand to guess at something like that.

Looks like you're town!Wren read is starting to fade away a little. Bigger fish to fry huh? I can understand Elieson, but your cases on myself and Shinori seem weaker than your simple sentence about Wren's vote. Unless you're finding others scummy?

I never said Gamer was town, I just don't think he's a good lynch. Call it gut, I guess? Maybe it's the fact he only has one post and his wagon was really quick to build.

For the crossed out part, this kinda seems like a better example of a joke that might have an agenda. I mean, you can still make the same point by saying that jokingly, but won't be jumped on then. Sorry, but I don't like it.

But he clearly wasn't defending Elieson, he was criticizing Gamer's reasoning.

Uh, what's wrong with speculating about motives? What sort of "facts" do you think are better to base things on, at this point in the game?

All in all, Paper is null, but you have a gut townread on him? Do you think he's scummy according to objective logic, then?

My thoughts and my gut are two separate entities, each based on logic and intuition, respectively. I don't think Paper has done anything bad enough to deserve a vote., but aside from intuition (which can change on a whim), I don't think he's clear from any suspicion. Hence Null.

As a note, from experience knowing him for a fairly long time, I can attest that WREN is a notorious lurker in and out of Mafia. Doesn't have any standing on my read of him, but it probably explains why he's been watching the thread and not posting. It's not exactly helping him to clear any suspicion on him, though.

[NekoRex]

EBWOP

Uh, what's wrong with speculating about motives? What sort of "facts" do you think are better to base things on, at this point in the game?

Speculation is bad because it's based on things which may or may not be real (hence the term) and in general probably a waste of time. If I said you were scumbuddies with, say, Strawman, that's going to be mostly unfounded unless one of you two actually flips scum.

I'd rather focus on tangible reasons to vote for people, like scumtells or poor/lack of scumhunting.

[Baldrick]

A quick note before I have dinner:

As a note, from experience knowing him for a fairly long time, I can attest that WREN is a notorious lurker in and out of Mafia. Doesn't have any standing on my read of him, but it probably explains why he's been watching the thread and not posting. It's not exactly helping him to clear any suspicion on him, though.

I don't want to tell him how to play, but it'd be best to reveal his hand occasionally. Writing a lot of stuff at one time can lead to mistakes, and waffling.

[Jaybee]

to get the random stuff out of the way first

EBWOP

what does that mean derp this is entirely not game related

I never said Gamer was town, I just don't think he's a good lynch. Call it gut, I guess? Maybe it's the fact he only has one post and his wagon was really quick to build.

If he's not a good lynch, then who strikes you as a good D1 lynch?

Also

I can see where the heat on WREN is coming from, his vote is pretty flimsy, but I think there's bigger fish to fry.

elaborate pls

Anyway, gonna try and give opinions (though you'll find the majority of my opinions to be the same for different people)

Kay, scorri, Boron: this my sound a bit hypocritical but post more pls, can't read anything from their, like, 5 posts total. Is it still finals season? I think that would explain a little.

WREN: good lord make a second post. Given the fact that he's barely said anything else though, it's making me think he's town in a weird sort of way?

Elieson, Shinori: Defensive as fuuuck. Slight scum vibes.

Neko: Seems a little waffly on Paperblade opinion, and pretty earnest in his defense of WREN (though I agree with the general sentiment). Null read.

Mancer: Getting confused noobtown vibes, but this isn't very strong and he could just as easily be noobscum.

Everyone else is pretty much a null read.

I dislike throwing a pressure vote so late in the phase, but I don't think Elie, Mancer nor WREN are worth lynching based on the information they've given, so to move on to the next best thing.

##Unvote (though I thought I unvoted the last time, whatever)

##Vote Boron

Dear, you've made, like, 2 posts.

[Baldrick]

Mancer seriously piqued my interest before I’d decided on a serious vote, and hasn’t been much better since. At this stage, I don’t see the point of unvoting and revoting simply so that I haven’t been on him since RVS.

The first thing he did was jump on the sudden wagon without a hint of irony. He was clear afterwards that his vote was a joke, but he was seriously considering the possibility of more votes on JB. Only scum would think pushing a lynch based on nothing close to hammer is a good idea, so I’m not sure why he objects to being suspicious of the later voters.

I think it was just an excuse to push on Elieson. The quote he used as a basis of his case is out of context; he is trying to make it look like Elieson was deflecting suspicion when he was countering the point that we’d get no scumreads if JB reached hammer from joke votes.

His defense of his vote, to readily admit it’s suspicious, is strange. Given he’s so worried about Elieson putting suspicion onto him, I believe it’s a “hidden in plain sight” strategy. One of the few meta bits I’m confident on is that he tends to throw caution to the wind.

Neko’s case on Elieson seems to be ignoring the latest post from him. He also missed the more serious reasoning of the Wren wagon. And I don’t agree with his assertion motive is not important, I think considering the possible motive behind a post or a vote is useful in determining whether or not it’s suspicious.

I saw Wren this morning, so I’m wondering what exactly he’s waiting for. His vote on Elieson needs to be explained, and something about the phrase “apply pressure to the wound” concerns me. That’s all I have to say that wasn’t covered in 146.

Shinori’s vote on JB and his overreaction to the votes on him is notable, but without a wagon of any sort or much in the way of corroborating evidence, I’m not interested in pursuing the matter further.

Everyone else is a null read because either they haven't done anything interesting, or what interesting things they have done has been cancelled out by explanations and/or their play.

[MancerNecro]

but he was seriously considering the possibility of more votes on JB.

so I’m not sure why he objects to being suspicious of the later voters.

The quote he used as a basis of his case is out of context;

Who's the one who drags quotes and posts out of context?

Elieson was the one who brought up the potential additional voters when he brought out the point about only votes after someone reaches L-3 is suspicious.

I do not object to being suspicious of the later voters. I object to not being suspicious of the earlier voters. I think that all the voters who apply joke votes are suspicious and responsible for their votes and that the earlier voters are not exempt from this suspicion.

[MancerNecro]

The point is that all the early votes are as suspicious as each other, even if they might not be serious. Thus, Elieson saying that the early votes are not suspicious is scummy, since he is trying to draw attention and suspicion off of himself and his vote.

This is the post where I've made that point. I do wish that players stop misrepresenting me and making me look bad by dragging all my posts out of context.

Already, Sawslothducksaucestrawman, Elieson, scorri and Baldrick have done this.

[MancerNecro]

I used te wrong colour in my previous post, urgh.....

Also, I'm going to spend some time reading the earlier posts. I missed a lot of the action today because I went out.

Reads incoming!~

[MancerNecro]

Somethkng I've noticed is that Helios and Baldrick jumps to Elieson's defence a lot.

This is especially so for Helios: Helios had, in two posts, rebutted two arguments that I had against Elieson. This was before Elieson even responded. I take this as a sort of pseudo defence. The situation was such that Elieson could get away with just a one-liner defence against my attacks.

I have a feeling that Helios might be Elieson's scum buddy from how coordinated he and Elieson are in their defences. If one of Elieson or Helios flips scum, this point has to be brought out again to decide if we should lynch the other.

Baldrick has made some attacks of his own on Elieson. However, I realise that he seems to be rationalizing his RVS vote on me by saying that I attacked Elieson and voted him for something that I might have also done as well as taking my posts out of context and attacking me with them. This feels to me as something like "You've attacked and voted my buddy so I shall continue keeping my vote on you."

More reads incoming still!~

[MancerNecro]

HELLO IRIS

How exactly is "Logical explanation means we should lynch you." different from "If you are, we have to lynch you."? Though Mancer did post his vote about 45 minutes after Elie's, so that's something to consider.

what the conspiracy theory

There's a difference between defending a player and defending a stupid lynch that teaches you absolutely nothing. Paperblade is doing the latter.

wish granted

If there's any 'suspicious' vote, it's yours because of how late it came.

Anyway, ##Vote Shinori. Just want a quick explanation of the first quote.

to get the random stuff out of the way first

what does that mean derp this is entirely not game related

If he's not a good lynch, then who strikes you as a good D1 lynch?

Also

elaborate pls

Anyway, gonna try and give opinions (though you'll find the majority of my opinions to be the same for different people)

Kay, scorri, Boron: this my sound a bit hypocritical but post more pls, can't read anything from their, like, 5 posts total. Is it still finals season? I think that would explain a little.

WREN: good lord make a second post. Given the fact that he's barely said anything else though, it's making me think he's town in a weird sort of way?

Elieson, Shinori: Defensive as fuuuck. Slight scum vibes.

Neko: Seems a little waffly on Paperblade opinion, and pretty earnest in his defense of WREN (though I agree with the general sentiment). Null read.

Mancer: Getting confused noobtown vibes, but this isn't very strong and he could just as easily be noobscum.

Everyone else is pretty much a null read.

I dislike throwing a pressure vote so late in the phase, but I don't think Elie, Mancer nor WREN are worth lynching based on the information they've given, so to move on to the next best thing.

##Unvote (though I thought I unvoted the last time, whatever)

##Vote Boron

Dear, you've made, like, 2 posts.

Shatter seems suspicious to me when I look at the initial posts he made for each of his two votes. Both were done without a strong case or reasoning.

In the first post, he points out a lot of other players' posts and how they may be scummy, yet he votes Shinori, whom he does not have very strong reasons for.

In his second post, he had pointed out absolutely nothing about how Boron is scummy. He had however, pointed out how scummy a lot of other players are, yet votes Boron because she has made only 2 posts. When he admits that other players, including himself, has been inactive as well.

Also, I agree with Elieson that his "what if I'm scum" comment could be him trying to make others think that he's not scum through a sort of reverse psychology. Thus, it is likely that Shatter might be scum as well.

More reads are incoming still!~

[MancerNecro]

On the other hand, I noticed that NekoRex has been "coaching" Shatter in ED1. This catches my attention because this coaching can be seen as a way for NekoRex to appear to be helping town when he is, in fact, not really contributing to town's discussion with his coaching.

##Unvote: Elieson

##Vote NekoRex

because I think this is a stronger scumtell.

Adding on to this point I made earlier that even though NekoRex has made a few more posts, he has so far not contributed much. He waffled a lot, and tells us quite a bit about who he thinks is town, but he has not contributed a lot on terms of hunting for scum so far

Reads done.

In lieu of this, I find that my reads on Elieson are not as strong as some of my other reads.

##Unvote: Elieson

##Vote: Shatter

because I now have reason to believe that you might be scum and because of your vote park on Shinori before shifting it over to Boron without that strong a reasoning.

[NekoRex]

what does that mean derp this is entirely not game related

EBWOP means "Edit By Way of Post". I forgot to quote and respond to part of Kay's post.

EBWOP lets you bypass the "No Edit Rule" by train-posting.

If he's not a good lynch, then who strikes you as a good D1 lynch?

Elieson, of course

Also

elaborate pls

I think Elieson may be a better lynch. I'd probably have WREN as a second or third option at this point. I need to reread some.

Neko’s case on Elieson seems to be ignoring the latest post from him

This is true, to be honest, which is why I haven't actually touched on Elieson since my vote on him. That post is simply too large and I need to go back and read it later.

Right after I get some sleep

[NekoRex]

If WREN doesn't respond before I wake up I am going to officially support his wagon in earnest. He's lurked the thread far too much to continue to give me the benefit of the doubt.

[NekoRex]

Mancer is also right that I really need to scumhunt more. I haven't much in the way of clarity to detect scum and I need to work on that. I have a feeling this isn't oing to be one of my better games.

[Jaybee]

In the first post, he points out a lot of other players' posts and how they may be scummy, yet he votes Shinori, whom he does not have very strong reasons for.

In his second post, he had pointed out absolutely nothing about how Boron is scummy. He had however, pointed out how scummy a lot of other players are, yet votes Boron because she has made only 2 posts. When he admits that other players, including himself, has been inactive as well.

Also, I agree with Elieson that his "what if I'm scum" comment could be him trying to make others think that he's not scum through a sort of reverse psychology. Thus, it is likely that Shatter might be scum as well.

Alright, time to go over this para by para.

The Shinori vote was because I wanted him to explain why he found your vote on me to be a serious vote, which he then explained. Vote off.

I explained the Boron vote in that same post - I didn't think, and still don't think that it's worth lynching Elie, Wren nor you based on the information we've gotten, and Elie and Wren need to post a little more before I'm k for their lynch. Since the 3 of you were at pretty high votes last I checked, I went for the next best thing, which was an inactive player.

because I now have reason to believe that you might be scum and because of your vote park on Shinori before shifting it over to Boron without that strong a reasoning.

you're welcome