Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[eclipse]

Eh, that works.

First PoT mafia wasn't supposed to, but Snike/JB forgot to send in a kill. Forgot about CM4, but that's Paperblade's fault. Wasn't around for CM3.

[BBM]

Sorry, I'm going to be a bit busy over the next few days due to school and then my mom's birthday right after the work ends.

##Vote: Helios

I'll expand this more later, but his votes last phase were weak. Scorri vote was him just voting for an inactive and then trying to justify that later as her lurking because she posted just to say that she would be busy, which is a pretty lame vote. Then he voted SB, basically just saying the same thing Prims was saying about SB's reaction to the Cop report being weird. I don't disagree that it was a weird reaction, but the vote came after Lucy had come in to claim. If we take Lucy as town, why would scum bother nitpicking like he did instead of just going along with it? And if Lucy is actually scum, then would he really try to save her in such an obvious way? Maybe it's wrong of me to expect good play, but that seems like too dumb to actually do. Then his last vote was just a late-in-the-phase switch to Mancer, which could easily have been a bus.

Eclipse, like I said, I've already made my case against you and if you didn't think it was worthy enough to be considered a case than I don't know what more to say. I'm more interested in Helios right now than you because your attitude towards the votes on you seems too uncaring to be mafia. Or maybe you're just bluffing.

[eclipse]

Of the other multi-mafia games I remember, Unicycle/Pokemon Legendaries/Pokemon TCG/Mitnala had both mafias shooting every night (hint: it's in your best interest to read all of the games I just mentioned). Disgaea was multi-mafia, but I don't remember much about it except the flavor and the fact that I used my role D2 because my insides went bonkers. I wasn't around for Pokemon Tactical/Train 2.

lynch BBM for having a life I'm certain that if I'm THAT BIG of a scum read, you'll find a way to make a case. If it's a solid one, I'll be more than happy to respond to it. I'm bored, otherwise.

[scorri]

Sho: I wanted to know who you targeted/why N0?

... Ok. Marth being targeted by the role deleter/thief or whatever hurts my case against him a little since I'm not sure why what is probably a scum role would target a fellow scum. I'm going to need to think about this one for a bit, but I'm still not convinced he's town so I'll leave my vote there for now.

[BBM]

I... don't think you understand what I'm saying? I'm saying that I've already made my case and if you apparently can't even remember it, it clearly wasn't "solid" enough for you to respond to it. I don't have anything more to say than what I already said earlier. I'll link to it in case you missed but I don't think you did. I'm too tired and lazy to dig more if you're not going to respond to that, especially as I'm more interested in Helios at the moment anyways.

[Helios]

Apologize for the lack of posting. I've just been a bit busy with life and told Elie about it so it's all gucci. I'll try and reply to as much as I can.

@Xinn: Don't get too excited, the fact that you made a mini list post of reads right here (aka the post I was referring to) with not a single scummy read can be viewed as active lurking. Doesn't matter that you decided later to make Sho a null read (and then mention Bizz being a null read when you didn't even mention her in the post!), there isn't any scum reads in there, and as a result is just a post for the sake of posting to show you weren't just lurking. That's all there is to it. Second of all, you don't even understand what the vote I made on scorri was even for, and just echoing other people who said "ehh his scorri vote was weak calling her out for active lurking". I already explained the logic behind it, admitted it wasn't the best because it's ED1, and touched on the other stuff that was happening. I could have just voted BBM or Marth like everyone else, but what would be the point of that? There isn't one. I'm just trying to be as helpful to the town as I can by looking elsewhere, since I'm 99% sure in a game with 21 people there is more than two scum in the game. The rest of your reasoning is based on a lack of knowledge of my play (with an obvious bias towards the results of Void) and my "friendly" (normal) tone. This isn't even remotely a scummy thing (I can see you saying it's "weird" since mafia is srs bsns but scummy? yeah no), so if this is your case that you're trying to present, I think you realize yourself how weak it is. Don't let past feelings get in the way of your scumdar.

Like I already mentioned before, I didn't like your Lucina vote and the way you jumped on it immediately with Prims' reaction test, then the second Prims claims he's not serious you're like "oh I didn't ACTUALLY think Lucina was scum so yeah", but then later trying to defend yourself saying "yeah I thought Lucina was kinda bad for her sheepy/lurky play". Extremely waffly. This isn't the only read that you switched your opinion on either, like BBM. You also ask a lot of questions, which is a way of pseudocontribution, and don't really answer them. Scumread here.

@BBM: Don't misrep my scorri vote man. I voted her because her post was an active lurk post. Go read her post again and you'll see what I mean. I switched my vote off it later the same reason why Prims stopped his reaction test on Lucina: THEY WERE STILL INACTIVE. Therefore, it's pointless to keep a vote on, and you may as well use it elsewhere where it can be more beneficial to the town. I voted SB because I thought his reaction was weird, but not the way Prims said it. I thought it was weird that he was so hesitant at first, but then all of a sudden changed his mind and dropped the vote. It looked to me like he wasn't sure what to do exactly and had to quick talk to his scumbuddies on what the best action to take would be. I wasn't the only person who thought his reaction was weird obviously since Manix voted him as well. As for "if Lucy is town why would they care?", simple answer. When I was scum in FAYZ, and Prims did the same attempt at a reaction test with the cop thing on Elieson (who was town), I asked Paper what the best course of action would be since I knew Elieson was town. SB could easily have been thinking along the same lines at that time. Plus I didn't want to just be another vote on BBM or Marth or Mancer at that time since there were enough votes and wanted to try and look elsewhere for scum. Later on Mancer was starting to look obvscum and there wasn't much SB wagon support, so it was the obvious choice to switch my vote to him, since maybe I'm actually just town trying to lynch scum. But that's crazy right?

Still don't like Proto based on what I said before, and the fact that he really hasn't changed his play, and how insistent he is on Kiwi being town. The thing is, Proto is a veteran and knows how to play the game, and being someone who tries to use flavor at times to scumhunt as well, I've learned that it's not something you want to really bank on for many reasons.

I'm understanding the Neko case now that I've taken a good look at his posts. Most of the time he's just making excuses for not having reads or not knowing what's going on, and everything else is little theories with no credibility, and he defended Mancer a lot harder than you'd think. Actually

##Vote Neko

I think out of all the people I've mentioned, this here has the best chance of flipping scum.

I'll try and post more opinions tomorrow, so forgive me for not having a huge wall right now. If there's anything you'd like me to touch on please ask me ???s

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Scorri, Marth said he kept his role.

And I prefer not to reveal my target unless I find it to be of relevance to the current topic on hand. It's not like mafia would consider me high enough kill target just because my status is cause of me hitting somebody of their and thus losing my role. Its very unlikely they would have PGO variant like that

[scorri]

Sho: Well, Marth said that he wasn't vanilla but that something else had happened. But that's fine. If you're not ok with sharing who, mind sharing your reasoning for targeting them?

[eclipse]

I'm bored enough to do this.

Meh, I stopped believing the copscan after Prims posted "Don't expect a CC, town might have multiple JoaTs." Anyways, CPR Doctor doesn't seem like a role that would be given as a fake, nor does it feel like something Lucy might fake on her own accord, so I'm inclined to believe it for now.

And Eclipse, I'm sorry, but no. You don't get to say things like "Let me play how I want and comment on what I want to" in a game of mafia. I'm perfectly within my rights to question you for doing something I didn't like. And if I had done something similar by not commenting on the Bizz case (I did, but whatever) you'd be perfectly within your rights to question me for not doing that.

In fact, ##Unvote, ##Vote: Eclipse

I don't really care if this is seen as an OMGUS. A step through her ISO, looking at the posts with content in them:

Post 1: Votes Bizz for being annoyed about a role deleter even though any town would find the existence of one bad, even a person with a scummy role or a Vanilla, because other people in the town DO have good roles.

Post 2: Handwaves my entire case against Snike with just a "I can see his point", with no explanation given as to why. What exactly made Snike's logic better than mine?

Post 3: Starts finding me suspicious just because I misremembered something, okay. Also finds me suspicious for asking questions (lol that meta) and for the earlier points I was making, though again, she doesn't mention why my points were bad or scummy.

Post 4/Post 5: She chooses to question Prims for the way he claimed JoaT over pushing Bizz, which doesn't make any sense to me. Then calls me out for getting fired up in my responses to her and for jumping too hard on people attacking me. Of course I'm going to get fired up when you dismiss everything I say with "It's not as important". I get that you have priorities and things you find more important than others. But town's job isn't to hide everything they think. Some things, sure, but if you start doing things weirdly, you can't brush me off by saying "let me play how I want". You mention that Prims revealing the amount of abilities he had doesn't make sense since it has nothing to do with his case. So were you suspecting Prims of lying as well? And no, I clearly don't think I'm making a big deal out of something trivial.

Post 6/Post 7

: Some stuff questioning questioning Proto, okay. The first of these posts also implies that you did in fact believe Prims's claim, since you said that you implied that Lucina was a higher lynch priority than me. If that was the case, why were you nitpicking the claim so much?

1. I say what I want, when I want in a game. The only people that can actually tell me what NOT to say are the game mods (whether it be OC/NOC rules, possible role shenanigans, etc.) and the site mods (so no posting porn and all that). You're free to question what I say, and I'm free to facepalm at the sheer flimsiness of this reason.

2. Voting me over my Bizz vote FOR THAT LOGIC is flawed from my point of view because I'm town and don't give a shit about the role deleter. If town has to rely on night roles to find scum, we're doing it wrong.

3. I understood Snike's logic; thus, I didn't see the reason why he needed to be called out for that. I still don't, and it still looks like a massive overreaction.

4. Your scum meta is to blast questions and overreact. Guess what you were doing?

5. You don't advertise parts of your role that aren't being used to drive a lynch, unless you're bad at claiming. JoaT doesn't need to advertise how many abilities they have when trying to drive a lynch based off of a supposed investigation result. Your priorities were also misplaced, IMO, but you've been getting better about that.

In other words, while this was better than what Paulina did, it was still pretty weak. You're arguing a lot of PoV stuff, and that's extremely shaky grounds for early lynches (D2 counts as early, since no one died by game mechanics). If I wanted to make an equally weak case, I'd chase after Xinnidy/Paulina/Shinori because Mancer mentioned them without really pushing them.

scorri's prodding of Sho is starting to weird me out. I don't think finding who he targeted is gonna help anything.

[scorri]

Honestly at this point my prodding of Sho is more an attempt to get him to contribute anything at all as opposed to dropping one liners every once in a while. However, I'm coming to realize this probably isn't going to work, so... eh.

[Bluedoom]

Sho: Well, Marth said that he wasn't vanilla but that something else had happened. But that's fine. If you're not ok with sharing who, mind sharing your reasoning for targeting them?

How does 'role being affected but not turning vanilla' = 'being targeted by role deleter/thief' ?

[scorri]

Much to your surprise, you are unable to approach scorri, because when you prepare to fly into the sky, you find your wings clipped!

Just as you prepare to take flight from HQ to follow [sNIP], you feel something holding you back, like things just aren't normal. In fact, they are assuredly not normal! Your wings are gone, and so is your Role!

I was going by flavor. Both of you lost your wings, so I assumed you'd been targeted by the same role.

[Bluedoom]

I was going by flavor. Both of you lost your wings, so I assumed you'd been targeted by the same role.

Uh-huh that's a stretch.

There's a statement in my role PM which says if I target a specific player something may happen(hence I asked Sho about his target) You should ISO me if you haven't read that.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Sho: Well, Marth said that he wasn't vanilla but that something else had happened. But that's fine. If you're not ok with sharing who, mind sharing your reasoning for targeting them?

There is clear correlation between me picking said person as target and town winning so I did it because lol night 0

i am aware of the irony

[Percivalé]

dear eclipse I don't always play by logic and I hate role deleters about as much as I hate disguisers

I was thinking what if we have a jack or something that affects roles in negative ways? That's dumb spec but that's just what I'm going to assume at this point until we have more evidence.

Actually ##Unvote ##Vote: Neko because I have a much better feeling about this than Marth.

[Blitz]

Its cool Bizz my role is scummy too(no really it is)

hey Marth, care to explain how Rolecop is a scummy role?

also,

wanna know if Balc did idle last night

and for all the reasons mentioned about Neko and not giving a good enough response to my question, I will

##vote: Nekorex

also,

@SB, I don't have to mention "this is what I wanted to say " when I actually say it.

[Bluedoom]

@Blitz: Rolecop is usually a scum role(or I'm used to seeing it as such) and it doesn't help town that much cuz it doesn't give any clears, but helps scum more because they know what roles are in the game that way.

[scorri]

Marth: Oh right, the other thing that made me think you were targeted by the same role as Sho was the fact that you asked him if he'd targeted the same person as you. I thought you might be following Proto's idea of a deleter PGO type role.

I'll admit, I jumped to conclusions when I saw that you'd had your role affected in some way. I'll try and avoid that in the future.

That being said, I'm continuing to not be sold on you being town, especially since you have yet to address the case against you. Have any thoughts?

[Blitz]

@Blitz: Rolecop is usually a scum role(or I'm used to seeing it as such) and it doesn't help town that much cuz it doesn't give any clears, but helps scum more because they know what roles are in the game that way.

when you see a doc, don't you know s/he is cleared anyways?

and also, the coincidence that you "lost your wings all of a sudden on the 2nd day" was also VERY suspicious

in fact, it seemed like you played your entire cards after your claim to make it look like you would end up losing your wings, care to share why I would feel this way?

[Bluedoom]

Marth: Oh right, the other thing that made me think you were targeted by the same role as Sho was the fact that you asked him if he'd targeted the same person as you. I thought you might be following Proto's idea of a deleter PGO type role.

I'll admit, I jumped to conclusions when I saw that you'd had your role affected in some way. I'll try and avoid that in the future.

That being said, I'm continuing to not be sold on you being town, especially since you have yet to address the case against you. Have any thoughts?

Case against me? Very well.

I see people(Primswhowassubbed, Nekorex and Bizz) throwing the word multiball around. We don't know jackshit about the setup so if anyone else is planning to use that point against me, they're basically using speculation which is weak IMO.

Since I have a scummy role there's no correct time for me to claim rolecop because let's say I was gonna be lynched(supposedly the correct time to claim?) and claimed rolecop. I'd be lynched anyway. Plus I saw the contradiction, what, would you guys want me to just blindly hop on to the Mancer wagon like that? Especially since earlier I even said I thought he was not scummy(nor did I even hear a person claiming they were blocked).

Therefore I don't think my claim was unnecessary because it helps me clarify my actions better and verify claims of others. I in fact scanned Mancer N0 because Prims suggested a Mancer wagon (and in a discussion earlier in Presidential QT I'm aware that he believes Mancer uses emotional appeals as WIFOM). Since Mancer usually gets shit coming at him D1 I thought of scanning him to see if he had some anti-town role or he does something like a fakeclaim.

[Baldrick]

The fact that both Sho and Marth had references to wings makes me think whatever happened to them is unique to them and couldn't have happened to just anyone.

I have more to say, but I've been ninja'd a lot so the rest of it will be in my next post.

[Blitz]

you could have kept your character to yourself and maybe I wouldn't have suspected that wingloss so much

[Bluedoom]

when you see a doc, don't you know s/he is cleared anyways?

and also, the coincidence that you "lost your wings all of a sudden on the 2nd day" was also VERY suspicious

in fact, it seemed like you played your entire cards after your claim to make it look like you would end up losing your wings, care to share why I would feel this way?

1. That's a 1/20 chance of finding doc atm. (assuming no claims had happened uptil now)

2. What do you have to say about Sho's case then? He didn't even crumb that he was align cop for all that I read.

3. You don't even know what happened to my role so shouldn't be judging that I 'played my cards right' and all you have to go with for now is flavour. Nor can I explain what you feel because I'm not a mind-reader you know.

[Percivalé]

ACTUALLY Marth I made a huge mistake, for some reason I thought you claimed watcher and not rolecop. I am sorry

[Blitz]

I think it is more like 1/10 because of Prim's role

Sho seemed more genuine and you seemed like you wanted to build a stage to make this claim

good point, but your meta (from what I know) says you are more likely to be scum

we were hydra'd remember?

therefore, expect me to keep up this seemingly useless question answering for a whole