Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[Bluedoom]

Ok first off I'll apologize. I read my results and thought I was double rolecop(act twice at night) but Eli edited it into my role PM saying I'm vanilla. >_>

Night 1 Results:

Much to your surprise, you are unable to approach scorri, because when you prepare to fly into the sky, you find your wings clipped!

However, something else has happened. Despite the clipping of your wings, you do feel stronger, and are confident that the next time you are able to fly, you will be able to spot two people instead of just one!

[eclipse]

Dear Bizz, I try to play using logic because it's more fun that way - thus, if I see something that looks weird, I'm gonna say so.

Blitz, are you accusing Marth of being scum or not? That line of questioning looks really strange.

[Percivalé]

what the fuck are you serious marth

[eclipse]

I'm assuming that's the first result he got, then was errata'd to vanilla? Or did I read it wrong?

(and if it was a mod error, then why didn't Elieson tell you to STFU about the error?)

[Bluedoom]

No that's the only result t I got but he edited into the OP that I'm vanilla (so basically I just saw my result and I was like "Oh cool I can scan two people now.")

So its technically not a mod error but I got clarified that I'm vanilla now.

[eclipse]

Uhhh. . .PMs don't show that they were edited, unless you were messaged that something was changed/didn't read it right the first time/have a good memory? Either way, , though I haven't decided whether it should be directed to you or Sho.

[Bluedoom]

Uhhh. . .PMs don't show that they were edited, unless you were messaged that something was changed/didn't read it right the first time/have a good memory? Either way, , though I haven't decided whether it should be directed to you or Sho.

I know it was changed because my rolecop part was striked out(so I didn't bother checking it first because "Hey I know my role why would I check the OP?")

[eclipse]

:facepalm:

To the host: If Marth is telling the truth, can you please put a word in the person's role PM to let them know that it was edited?

To Marth: I still have no idea why you posted the second part, but too late for that. ;/

To Kay: Hi, any thoughts?

To lurkers: Popping in here to read without posting doesn't help to drive lynches.

[Kay]

I'm inclined to believe Marth, I don't really think being unable to keep his story straight would be something he'd do as scum. Plus, being targeted with a scum role wouldn't even help him much with all the theorizing about multiple scumteams.

you could have kept your character to yourself and maybe I wouldn't have suspected that wingloss so much

I don't think we had much reason to suspect that Sho losing his wings was anything other than flavor, and if Marth didn't post his character and Role PM, people would bother him for it, possibly making it better to post that stuff right away (less time to fakeclaim, but I'm not sure how applicable it is. Still, I think being reluctant to post a Role PM as scum might be reasonable anyway).

[charlie_]

Okay, third time lucky, I WAS successful, but redirected (and uninformed of who to so bleh.)

Marth's claim waffling kind of reminds me of my SSBU play at first glance, but I'll look more into it after I get up.

[Percivalé]

No no no I don't like that, SB. Meta'ing someone off of your own play in the past is a scumtell to me please don't do that. And I kind of don't want to believe Marth because that means the role deleter has more than one use and that pisses me off. It makes me think he still could be scum trying to worry us about that but I don't think it's very likely.

[Baldrick]

So Marth is vanillized as well, but he gets a double shot next time? Does that mean the role deleter might be temporary?

Unfortunately many the scumreads I got on the way through were nullified by associative reads and drastic changes in post quality. Oh well.

NekoRex is my biggest scumread at the moment. He had a strange fixation on BBM, kept saying that he had a gut read on him as scum. Even after he admitted to finding no reason to think BBM was scummy, he wanted to use the vig shot on him. He talked a lot about how Lucina was suspicious, but was hesitant about voting her. He had an odd stance on Mancer re: his intentions, thinking getting role PMs out of people who have already claimed was good, but analysing their veracity was bad. For what other reason would you want their role PMs? And throwing out his scumreads is strange, it's not like any of them were clear. Won't vote him because he has too many votes on him already.

I don't agree with what Blitz is saying about Marth. The roles that tend to be town are usually the best town PRs (doc, alliance cop, etc.) so clearing them that way isn't a great idea. We already have reason to believe there's one scummy town role in the game, so you can't be sure of roles that tend to be scum either. I would think that Marth would come up with a better excuse if he was faking it.

Xinnidy seems to be hiding behind his airheadedness a lot. He seems to be affected by his grudge on Helios over past games stop stealing my schtick

I didn't like Lucina for her handling of the Prims accusation, and the fact there hasn't been a kill. I want to hear from Balcerzak.

[Baldrick]

I forgot to put my vote on.

##Vote: Balcerzak It makes no sense to me.

[Bluedoom]

No its not temporary it just means if by some reason I'm able to rolecop again, I can do it twice to make up for the lost scan N1(or so I understood).

Xinny, Bal, Neko, Rein, Shinori. You guys need to say more stuff. SB and Helios too(although their recent posts bar the SB meta-ing me one have been more insightful) So far in D2 I've just seen a couple of votes on me, some votes on Neko and a case on Helios I'm not feeling atm.

[Kay]

First of all why in hell are you arguing a post made at the beginning of the day instead of reading before making that remark. I'm aware that my listposts are similar but ffs I at least read the whole thread then comment as I go with knowledge of what happens ahead of time.

Because it's easier to write stuff down as I think of it.

I really wanna hear from Loocy.

[charlie_]

The self meta was just what came to my head straight away, but now I'm more awake I feel better about Marth (plus when I did that I was really new so it probably doesn't mean much.)

Loocy subbed out for Bal Kay.

[Shinori]

##Vote: Nekorex

I don't really like that he lost all of his scum reads. Going back through his ISO I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

The first real post Neko had all game seemed to be just general overall thoughts about stuff that had happened. Although they were all one line and he was still rereading. He posted a few things were scummy and didn't feel the need to drop a vote apparently. Also in my opinion some of the stuff stated did not need to be stated.

Next post he comments on lucy's claim and Levy's reactions but still doesn't place a vote, even on Lucy who he supposedly didn't like. She was far from being lynched and placing a vote gives us more definite reads on your thoughts.

Not sure who I want lynched. It's been enough of a challenge just getting those above observations out and some of them (like Snike's) conflict with claimed roles and such.

Kind of want Lucina out now tbh.

Sho is being perpetually useless and I wouldn't mind him being removed from the "alive" list either I guess.

Gut on BBM too but I don't have much of a case beyond that. Same with Leder

Ugh my vote is going to waste and I don't have much to do about it.

Waffling in the beginning saying "No idea who to lynch" Kind of wants lucina. Says sho the supposed claimed alignment cop is being useless and would prefer him dead. Gut on bbm and levy but no case. I bolded the important part. This was pretty late into the day phase if I remember correctly and Neko still has no vote and says it's going to waste. At this point in time the only thing I have to think about is that it's scum not wanting to make a vote to catch attention. I really don't like Neko from this post.

Two posts later he finally drops a vote on Mancer because Mancer had been scum hunting by looking for fake role pms. There was a lot more to Mancer's case than him hunting for fake role pms.

Going to add that my other main scumreads today are Lucina and BBM, although I don't have anything really definitive on the latter aside from really bad gutvibes.

I don't know what I feel about this. Explain why they are your scum reads. One of them is nothing but gut.

Neko's post #562 had me feeling a bit better at first because of good logic. However as he moves on I still don't really like it. I didn't jump to conclusions and I don't feel that Neko read that crazy post I made towards Mancer well.

BBM was scummy for his own reasons, none of which had anything to do with Mancer. With multiball in play, BBM could be scum of another faction, or perhaps we're just dealing with Double Bus Scum regardless.

I really disliked the wording in bold. I don't even know why multiball started being thrown around. There was nothing to suggest multiball at that point in time. I really don't like that and with his supposed suspicions of BBM that he has had all game that has only been gut yet it makes him more suspicious of bbm because of supposed multiball.

With no kills happening last night I'm not sure there is multiball in this game. I'd be willing to believe more that he's saying this to make people suspicious of multiball.

And you get to his most recent post where he said he lost all his scum reads basically. I'd like some sort of explanation. What happened to lucina/balc suspicions and your BBM suspicions?

All in all he seems kinda wishy-washy and isn't saying all that much that doesn't involve BBM or stuff that had involved mancer. I didn't really get the feeling that he was TRYING to hunt scum in his posts. More like he was trying to appease people with his posts so he wouldn't get lynched and yet trying to not look townie enough to not get shot.

FIRST THINGS FIRST. I'd like to see a vote from Neko with some sort of reasoning behind it in his next post. I'd rather not wait till the day phase is halfway over before you place your only vote of the phase down.

@Kay: Lucy was subbed for balc. But yeah I'd also like to hear from him.

I'm also still suspicious of Xinnidy who seems unmemorable for most of the game. It's not like her posts are all that good either. I also didn't quite like her vote park on Rocker, although looking at Rocker's ISO, I'd like it if he could come in and talk and I'd like for him to be prodded if he hasn't already.

Frankly With all the wing snipping and stuff that is happening it really makes me think more of a cult thing than a role deleter or role thief thing.

[charlie_]

@the sub thing, so people stop prodding people who don't exist anymore.

Rocker->Kay

Loocy->Balcerzak

Prims->Manix->Baldrick

Going to reread Paulina because I don't remember her much.

[Shinori]

Oh right kay is rocker. Yay!

[Kay]

I wanna hear from Bal, then. Doesn't matter which of them it is.

[Kriemhild]

Alright, Night 1. We had no deaths, so, as many people pointed out before, it would benefit us all to know who zak targeted. If he idled, we don't learn much, but if he targeted a player successfully, then it implies that his target was also the Mafia's kill target.

Also, I don't see any reason for players to think this is a multi-Mafia. Mancer's character, Tyrin, is a good guy, which means that the Mafia consists of good guys. In other words, there is no correlation between character and alignment. His alignment was called "Other Guys", which might be the name for Mafia, because I can confirm that my role PM does not have the word "Town" in it anywhere. Because, alignment names such as "Lesser Demons" wouldn't be appropriate.

I actually find SB's declaration of action failure to be quite strange. SB did not know it was a mod error at that time, and we just had a Mafia Roleblocker killed, so why draw attention to the existence of a possible Town Roleblocker? imo it is useless for the Town to know that there is a Roleblocker, but it provides information for the Mafia about what abilities the Town possess. Actually, I'm going to vote ##Vote: SB because I want to know why he declared being roleblocked in public.

Regarding Blues's Vanillification, that was followed by Blues's ability to target two people at once, I am quite sure that these two effects are unrelated to each other. Blues's night result implies that the role loss may actually be temporary (this being the main reason why I found it suspicious for Snike to push ShoM for a claim D1). In any case, with the "wings clipped" flavor, it may not a coincidence that both Blues and ShoM were Birdmen. Blues also said that there's a statement in his role PM which says that something will happen if he targets a specific player. It's possible that this specific player is scorri and she clips the wings of any bird trying to investigate her. I hope ShoM can at least confirm whether or not his target was scorri.

Still, however, it's possible that the Role Deleter is an active role that is not restricted to birds, but the "wings clipped" is only the flavor for birdmen victims. The scum Role Deleter may have targeted Blues because he claimed Luke, making the rest of us think that only wings are threatened by role deletion. And with Blues being a Role Cop, it's also beneficial for the Mafia to have yet another investigation role disabled. Striking two birds with one stone, so to speak. This would be the strongest theory imo IFF ShoM actually did not target scorri in N0.

I am still a little suspicious of BBM, now that it became clear that good guys can be scum. Loocy's late roleclaim still seems fishy to me, but even zak won't be able to clarify whether or not it was just an activity issue. Snike pushing ShoM to claim is still a bit suspicious, because he should have considered the possibility of ShoM's role deletion being temporary. I don't think NekoRex is scum because he seems like typical noobtown (unless he's a veteran from another forum or something).

[Kay]

I hope ShoM can at least confirm whether or not his target was scorri.

I did not target scorri

[Kriemhild]

Because, alignment names such as "Lesser Demons" wouldn't be appropriate.

I meant, alignment names like "Lesser Demons" or "Zeon's army" wouldn't be appropriate because there are good guys in the Mafia faction as well. Therefore, "Other Guys" might be the only Mafia faction. In fact, it's possible that Elieson made every single player to be part of the Shining Force, thus negating the entire purpose of having character safeclaims.

[Kriemhild]

Okay, then, I think it's an active Role Deleter that is likely not restricted to just birds alone, but the effect can somehow be reversed (possibly with time).

[BBM]

I don't disagree with the reasons for voting Neko but the votes for his wagon seemed to have piled up incredibly fast, which makes me rather uncomfortable. He has like 6 votes on him already.

Helios, I'm aware that you said you voted Scorri for active lurking. My point was that despite you justifying it in that way, she wasn't active lurking. Posting to say you're going to be busy isn't active lurking, it's just being courteous to the rest of the game. Also, you had like a whole paragraph against Xinny, and she was also one of your main scumreads from last phase. Your last post was the first time you even mentioned Neko, yet you still voted for him over Xinny, which makes me kind of suspicious, though the motivation could differ based on what alignment Neko is.

Eclipse, I overreact regardless of my alignment. Look at some of my early games for examples of me overreacting as town to votes being placed on me. I've gotten better in that sense since then, but I still do it. And if you want examples of me being scum where I haven't overreacted or asked a lot of questions, there's .hack and EiMM. Regardless, thank you for responding; it makes me feel a bit better about you.

Proto, Neko's played on another forum before, as well as several times on this one. He's not really a newb.