Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[NekoRex]

Whoops, got a name wrong

Serious Bagels: Not sure. I thought he had a post on Rocker I didn't like but I couldn't find it. Hmm...

this was the read I meant to put out after the BBM paragraph

[BBM]

I used self-meta as a defence because I was defending against a meta argument. I was using self-meta to try and show that her meta on me was wrong, or at least that it had changed since then. People should really see why people use self-meta when they use it, and not just say "omg self-meta is scummy". It's scummy when people are using it to defend themselves against regular arguments, like "Oh I sheep all the time so don't take that as me being scummy". There's a difference there (IMO).

I also don't like how in Neko's bit against me, he attacked what I was doing instead of why I was doing it. I questioned Eclipse's question of Prims's claim because she found it more important than pushing a line of questioning on someone she thought was scummy. And yeah, maybe if Prims really had been the JoaT, he shouldn't have posted how many abilities he had, but just because that bit was unnecessary doesn't make it a scummy thing to do. He also says that I should have switched to Eclipse or Snike earlier, with the posts I had against them, but then calls me out for OMGUSing them, which are two opposing things. If I'd changed earlier, that would still have been an "OMGUS" and if I'd waited longer to change, or hadn't changed at all, then it would have been scummy for just voteparking someone I don't find scummy. So this type of argument is kind of dumb to defend against.

Not sure if I've said this before, but the reason I didn't switch from Marth immediately was because I thought Marth would come and respond, and I wanted to get a response from him before voting Snike, as it was only one post of his that I found suspicious. As for Eclipse, I was still waiting for Marth, but then got impatient and voted her anyways.

[BBM]

I also dislike how Neko is just sort of listing every single even slightly suspicious thing that everyone in the game has done, without actually bothering to give his overall thoughts about most of them or building an actual case against them, like his points against Baldrick, Xinny, SB. From his two listposts so far, I can gather that he finds Helios, Lucina, and Proto scummy, and then I'm not actually sure what his thoughts are about me. He points out a bunch of suspicious things about me but doesn't actually say that he finds me scummy or that he'd support my lynch like he does for the three I mentioned above.

I'd vote for Neko but I'm not really sure how many votes he has at the moment and I don't want to accidentally hammer. I know he's got at least six, which is probably enough to be going about with for the moment in any case. I feel like Helios is stepping up his game form what it was before, so I'm going to:

##Unvote, ##Vote: Kay

She had one long post where she just sort of countered things that she found scummy or arguments she didn't like... and that's it. Yeha, I understand that she just subbed in and she's never active at the best of times, but the only idea I have of her scumreads is one line at the end of her first post. She didn't even say why she found Xinny scummy until she was pressed, and she didn't really say why she found SB or Lucina scummy either, or at least not directly. She attacked some arguments defending them, such as saying that her claim seems faked, but that's it. She doesn't have a single point where she analyzes what Lucy or SB has done in a direct manner.

[eclipse]

FIRST: READING MATERIAL. My meta is derived from stuff like this:

Unicycle, where the rest of the scum team was more competent than me

Mitnala Rising, where I'm not the only one who's being mysterious about things

SM Mafia Mafia, where half the meta is in the role PMs

Kamen Rider, the Mafia of Spam

SF Mafia Mafia 2, with even MORE meta in the role PMs

Higurashi, or why turbo-lynching is bad

Etrian Odyssey Mafia, where the scummiest role in the game dies really early

Xenoblade Mafia, where I don't remember much

Schoolteacher Mafia, or why you do NOT revolve your set-ups around third parties

Note that this is not an all-inclusive list. NOW THEN. . .

Shinori: Alternating mafia kills are a thing, which is why I haven't fully dismissed the idea of multiple mafias yet.

BBM: Wasn't around for .hack, and I forget why I wasn't around. I was modkilled in EiMM, which is why that doesn't count

I'm not seeing the big deal about SB claiming his role's doing weird things. I can kind of see a town martyr/decoy/role-I-wanna-play-one-day doing their thing every night, but something like driver/hijacker shouldn't be shooting willy-nilly, IMO. Eh, what do I know?

I don't know what's bugging Neko IRL, but whatever it is, go away. Right now, my gut is leaning on "being overwhelmed", which isn't enough for me to vote him yet. I'd rather address this:

Alright, Night 1. We had no deaths, so, as many people pointed out before, it would benefit us all to know who zak targeted. If he idled, we don't learn much, but if he targeted a player successfully, then it implies that his target was also the Mafia's kill target.

Also, I don't see any reason for players to think this is a multi-Mafia. Mancer's character, Tyrin, is a good guy, which means that the Mafia consists of good guys. In other words, there is no correlation between character and alignment. His alignment was called "Other Guys", which might be the name for Mafia, because I can confirm that my role PM does not have the word "Town" in it anywhere. Because, alignment names such as "Lesser Demons" wouldn't be appropriate.

I actually find SB's declaration of action failure to be quite strange. SB did not know it was a mod error at that time, and we just had a Mafia Roleblocker killed, so why draw attention to the existence of a possible Town Roleblocker? imo it is useless for the Town to know that there is a Roleblocker, but it provides information for the Mafia about what abilities the Town possess. Actually, I'm going to vote ##Vote: SB because I want to know why he declared being roleblocked in public.

Regarding Blues's Vanillification, that was followed by Blues's ability to target two people at once, I am quite sure that these two effects are unrelated to each other. Blues's night result implies that the role loss may actually be temporary (this being the main reason why I found it suspicious for Snike to push ShoM for a claim D1). In any case, with the "wings clipped" flavor, it may not a coincidence that both Blues and ShoM were Birdmen. Blues also said that there's a statement in his role PM which says that something will happen if he targets a specific player. It's possible that this specific player is scorri and she clips the wings of any bird trying to investigate her. I hope ShoM can at least confirm whether or not his target was scorri.

Still, however, it's possible that the Role Deleter is an active role that is not restricted to birds, but the "wings clipped" is only the flavor for birdmen victims. The scum Role Deleter may have targeted Blues because he claimed Luke, making the rest of us think that only wings are threatened by role deletion. And with Blues being a Role Cop, it's also beneficial for the Mafia to have yet another investigation role disabled. Striking two birds with one stone, so to speak. This would be the strongest theory imo IFF ShoM actually did not target scorri in N0.

I am still a little suspicious of BBM, now that it became clear that good guys can be scum. Loocy's late roleclaim still seems fishy to me, but even zak won't be able to clarify whether or not it was just an activity issue. Snike pushing ShoM to claim is still a bit suspicious, because he should have considered the possibility of ShoM's role deletion being temporary. I don't think NekoRex is scum because he seems like typical noobtown (unless he's a veteran from another forum or something).

We have flavor spec, role spec, vote based on claimed role action (or lack thereof), BBM being slightly suspicious due to flavor spec, Lucina/Bal being suspicious due to claim timing, and Snike being suspicious because he forgot to take some role possibility into account (temporary suppression never crossed my mind, either). Can you cobble any sort of case together without relying on other people's roles/flavor?

##Unvote

##Vote: Proto

[Percivalé]

I don't think Proto is scum.

But that's all I can really say [for now]

[Balcerzak]

Hi, everyone. Sorry, for some reason I could have sworn Night was supposed to have lasted until about now. I sent in my action, and kind of forgot about the game for awhile due to being massively invested in my Awakening run. That said, I idled last night because I didn't want to shoot anyone without having fully read the thread, and I was pretty damn sure I wasn't going to get through all of it before deadline.

I am still working my way through things here, but ##Vote: Serious Bagels. There are a lot of things that seem off. If I'd been smart and taking notes I could point out each and every one of them, but the reaction to the Prims claim on my past self was one of them.

In my first-pass, I honestly don't see why many people seem to think Neko is scum, could someone break that case down for me into easy to understand portions?

[eclipse]

Proto is being rather unhelpful, and I am not a huge fan of massive flavor/role spec; thus, the vote.

[Percivalé]

We vote people because we think they're scum, not solely because they're being unhelpful. Do you think Proto is scum because he's being unhelpful, or are you only voting him for being unhelpful?

Kinda wish Proto would actually exist more but whatever. And I already gave my opinion on his heavy role/flavorspec. Seems kinda flimsy for that to be the only reason to vote for someone, I dunno. I have another reason that I might want to vote him but I have to wait and see first.

[Helios]

You seem to "mess up" quite a bit Xinn...

Neko's latest list posts are not making me feel any better about him. Not only is his content in each read weak overall, it's all vague either vague generalizations or random nitpicks overlooking everything else about the player. You can tell he's just skimming through posts and trying to conjure up a quick read on someone. His BBM read is probably the best read if you assume that he's a scumread of his, and BBM already picked out all the faults himself. It's a common method scum use to try and "contribute".

[Percivalé]

AKA the bad kind of listposting

[Xinnidy]

Because your posts look extremely fluffy.

For crying out loud.

That is the best you can come up with? You echoing scum.

I am absolutely annoyed at people dismissing my posts as 'filler', 'fluffy', 'unmemorable'. I swear I could write a 1000 word essay here and be called out for ambiguous wording, lack of reads, or filler from the Seventh Horn of Satan.

I don't like spelling Balcerzak :/

CPR Doc isn't supposed to be saving lives, it's supposed to be vigging scum, since using it as a protective role is extremely likely to kill your townread unless you're 100% sure scum is targeting him (and even then that's a pretty awful risk to take)

This does not discard the possibility that the person the vig found scummy and shot could coincide with the mafia kill, and I really hope you're not using this or any of the other points I dismissed to keep your vote on Bal.

##Unvote

All hail Helios Town King of defensive walls and his subordinates, opportunistic scum Xinnidy better back away and find a better vote park, for they're never going to listen to her poisoned, fluffy words!

...

##Vote: SB

Here you go Banana have fun posting why are you not scum and what the hell are your scumreads and why did you raise awareness on your role failing so quick and what are your conclusions from your supposed reread because I'm tired and need sleep.

Also hi Rein how are you.

Screw this game for the rest of today.

[BBM]

Xinny, relax a bit. People make mistakes and have wrong impressions sometimes. You might know you're town but we don't. Sometimes people don't read your posts the way you intend them, and it sucks. But you're not in the crosshairs right now, so there's no need to get so frustrated.

[Percivalé]

Sometimes people don't read your posts the way you intend them, and it sucks.

hahahahaa ahha hahaha ha hahaha ha ha h.

But the way Xin called Kay 'echoing scum' kinda bothers me

[Prims]

tired of seeing no votals whatsoever i did it myself

NekoRex (6) - Serious Bananas, Bluedoom, Helios, Levity, Blitz, Shinori

Serious Bananas (3) - Proto, Balcerzak, Xinnidy

Balcerzak (2) - Baldrick, NekoRex

Bluedoom (1) - scorri

Kay (1) - BBM

Proto (1) - eclipse

Voteless Scum (5): Kay, Paulina, Reinfleche, Sho, Snike

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. You have ~36 hours left in the day.

[eclipse]

You're the best, Prims~!

I cannot see how prolonged flavor/role spec will help the town to win. Thus, my vote.

That was a bit too dramatic for my tastes. Calling people names does not find scum, and contributes to the fluff problem. Also, did you miss the post where Bal said he idled?

[Kriemhild]

Okay, so if ShoM didn't target scorri, then there's probably an active Role Deleter that disabled the birds' abilities. Considering that Blues presented evidence for lynching Mancer, I'm confident that this Role Deleter is scum. From that, I can conclude that ShoM is Town, because the Role Deleter disabled him as well.

[Percivalé]

Okay Proto so what are your Player Reads/Player Opinions

[Kriemhild]

Okay Proto so what are your Player Reads/Player Opinions

ShoM and Blues seem almost confirmed Town to me. SB's roleblocked declaration, Snike's D1 push for ShoM's claim, and Loocy's late claim all seem quite suspicious. BBM, I actually don't know anymore. NekoRex seems somewhat scummy now that I learned that he's not a n00b.

Still wish zak could make a D2 post.

[eclipse]

ShoM and Blues seem almost confirmed Town to me. SB's roleblocked declaration, Snike's D1 push for ShoM's claim, and Loocy's late claim all seem quite suspicious. BBM, I actually don't know anymore. NekoRex seems somewhat scummy now that I learned that he's not a n00b.

Still wish zak could make a D2 post.

Proto, can you print this out and frame it, 'cause I was looking for something like this (and backing it up with stuff that's not flavor/role spec would be awesome too)? I take it that you think SB's roleblock declaration is worse than your opinion on Snike/Lucina/NekoRex, as that's where your vote is.

Now, to address that awful overreaction that I mentioned earlier. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: Xinnidy

[charlie_]

I said I was roleblocked because I forgot what Mancer flipped. That's all there is to it, so I thought that I should post it so town knew someone was blocking blindly. We know that some kind of redirector exists now I guess though. Also lol Xinny missed what I posted on Blitz/Neko a little while back, they were the most notable things I got from a reread. Paulina ISO came up with loads of fluff but my vote is better where it is. If nobody was blocked on n1 then Mancer's claim makes even less sense.

[Kay]

For crying out loud.

That is the best you can come up with? You echoing scum.

I am absolutely annoyed at people dismissing my posts as 'filler', 'fluffy', 'unmemorable'. I swear I could write a 1000 word essay here and be called out for ambiguous wording, lack of reads, or filler from the Seventh Horn of Satan.

<snip>

All hail Helios Town King of defensive walls and his subordinates, opportunistic scum Xinnidy better back away and find a better vote park, for they're never going to listen to her poisoned, fluffy words!

You went from having no scumreads to blatant OMGUS, great. The over-the-top rhetoric does not amount to a good reaction, IMO.

Frankly With all the wing snipping and stuff that is happening it really makes me think more of a cult thing than a role deleter or role thief thing.

Shinori, this is really terrible logic, I can think of no reason for that and it seems like an overly accusatory bit of rolespec. Besides, no one would claim it then, since their buddies would be likely to get lynched after they flipped.

Reading over Shinori's ISO now, I actually really don't like his posts much. There's some minor useful stuff, a lot of "I skimmed the thread and don't know anything but I'll say some stuff anyway" posts, and a lot of saying he's busy. Now I'm not saying being busy isn't legit, I'm just saying he seems really careful to not look inactive, and not so careful to post much content.

Also, I don't particularly think Neko is scum.

##Vote: Xinnidy

Apparently everyone unvoted him, not just a few people to prevent an early lynch? I would have voted him earlier, but I thought there was still a big wagon.

[charlie_]

SB, can you tell us who you initially tried to target?

I'd rather not if I see no reason to do so.

Also, I'm find Proto's sudden vote jump to me quite alarming considering (off of the top of my head) he never mentioned me as scummy (after checking, he didn't) and finds it strong enough to disregard any of his other scumreads is kind of odd to me.

Here you go Banana have fun posting why are you not scum and what the hell are your scumreads and why did you raise awareness on your role failing so quick and what are your conclusions from your supposed reread because I'm tired and need sleep.

Maybe I should talk about it in more detail and cover all the points. I addressed my scumreads during night 1, and unless I mentioned otherwise the reads are essentially the same as that. Said it failed due to me derping and forgetting Mancer's flip right after I woke up. I already said what my main conclusions were from the reread in the last post, with a major scumread on Neko, worries about Blitz (not as extreme as some of my other reads, in retrospect though.) I'm not scum because I'm not scum. Most cases on me are due to a few individual actions, ignoring the rest of my content. So why am I scum Xinn?

Aaaaaand I'm starting to get flimsy and lazy, hmph.

I was suspecting SB but then saw a bunch of posts I missed and he apparently was redirected, I don't know what to make of that.

Going through your ISO, this is the first mention of me in it. You mentioned me a whole once more before the vote and never justified it with actual reasoning, just "why are you not scum"

Other than that I don't think he's had like any reads outside of the two bigger wagons of the game at their respective times, BBM and now Neko.

Oh I've had barely any reads? Did you miss everything about Blitz in my Neko post? I also scumread Rocker earlier in the game, seems like you forgot that too. It's not a lot but I'm posting reads that I feel strongest about mostly because there's no point posting all of the weaker scum reads and town reads I might have. Those are just the ones out of the top of my head I mentioned, too.

Did a Proto ISO too and the first post where he mentions me is here, and the only reasoning behind it is that I claimed roleblocked.

[NekoRex]

This does not discard the possibility that the person the vig found scummy and shot could coincide with the mafia kill, and I really hope you're not using this or any of the other points I dismissed to keep your vote on Bal.

Oh my, I never considered that the mafia kill, which of course typically coincides with the towniest player or most important role, is going to be the same as the vig shot, typically the scummiest player in the game.

But I'm sure that the odds of that are dreadfully low.

Yes I'm making list posts but it's the best I can do in the moment when I essentially didn't have any scum reads to go on before. And I might as well put out my thought process in the open, right?

I guess I'll have to claim soon, though. I probably won't be living to D3 in any case!

[NekoRex]

Actually yeah there's no point in hiding my role when I've got this many votes on me. Fuck everything.

Dear NekoRex, you are Sarah.

You are a mischievous elf­girl who lived in Granseal before the great disaster of Zeon's release, and studied under the tutilage of Sir Astral. You have great strength and speed, and have the ability to promote using the Vigor Ball to one of two classes.

During the night, you may respond to your RolePM with "Night X: Remember, [uSER], if you want to be our leader, we will lose when you are defeated." [uSER] will be protected by any killing actions performed during the night.

In short, you are the Doctor*.

You are allied with the Shining Force. You win when all threats to you and your fellow Shining Force members have been eliminated.

I've been alluding to the fact there's a full doctor in this game pretty hard. You can also guess why I dislike Lucina's claim.

Also I have reason to believe my role might be able to change, possibly if I find a "Vigor Ball" as is mentioned in the flavor.

Also I healed Bluedoom last night. Nobody was killed N1. Hence why I believe he's town.

[Baldrick]

##Unvote

Bal, did Lucina's claiming affect your decision-making in any way?

Neko's seems to be stretching himself a bit thin, which is unwise if you're feeling overwhelmed by the sheer amount of content. Building up a case on the strongest scumreads would be best, I think.

Xinnidy's D1 explanation for his stance on Lucina is not good enough for me. It was an exceptional circumstance and dismissing his reaction as meta is lazy. I don't think it was opportunism, she would've stood her ground on Lucina since the reasons she gave were fairly solid.

I get the impression she was being protective of Lucina. In addition to the meta, she talks a lot about Lucina and FE13, linking it to his apathy, and there's also this;

Also, I'd rather we stop with the role PM dumps, Lucina seemed to have the wrong impression and I don't think encouraging Role PM dumps in day 1 is much clever.

doesn't really sit well with this;

##Vote: Lucina

Claimtous I guess

and his defense of Lucina's claim against NekoRex is strange, trying to speculate on what happened before you find out Bal's actions isn't productive. And Neko's ninja post is my opinion on the likelihood the mafia kill and the vig kill intersecting.

The overreaction is a null tell for me, I've seen players of both alignments get aggressive when they feel under pressure so I wouldn't read too much into it. That said, she's complaining about being considered low on content when she hides a lot of content posts behind spoilers, makes me wonder whether she's on top of her defenses.

##Vote: Xinnidy