Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[Paulina]

I'd much rather lynch between Xinnidy paulina or Kay at the moment.

I feel a lot safer about the first two though.

Shinori, why am I so high on your hit list. ._.

[Percivalé]

Leder have you got something? I don't think we should put too fine a point on it otherwise.

I will get you lynched you fucker

[Percivalé]

DISCLAIMER THE INFORMATION I HAVE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY ROLE!!!! SO STAY AWAY FROM ME ROLE BANDIT

[Kay]

I'm kinda suspicious of Paulina now just 'cause I don't really like people saying "I want so-and-so lynched even if they're town". Townies should care about mislynches, even if someone isn't being helpful. Plus, justifying a mislynch that much ahead of time sort of makes it look like you know it's gonna be a mislynch. If you're reasonably confident in your scumreads, there's no reason to talk about not caring whether you mislynch.

[Paulina]

I'm kinda suspicious of Paulina now just 'cause I don't really like people saying "I want so-and-so lynched even if they're town". Townies should care about mislynches, even if someone isn't being helpful. Plus, justifying a mislynch that much ahead of time sort of makes it look like you know it's gonna be a mislynch. If you're reasonably confident in your scumreads, there's no reason to talk about not caring whether you mislynch.

I was just speaking honestly. =/ Proto has been my top scumread for awhile now, after Eclipse (which I've pretty much given up on). It might not have sounded town, but I'm that frustrated with his unwillingness to contribute relevant reads.

[Baldrick]

js that running around like a headless chook isn't going to help matters. Keep calm and let the others draw their own conclusions.

[Prims]

Xinnidy (4) - eclipse, Kay, Bluedoom, Helios

Kay (3) - BBM, Reinfleche, Serious Bananas

Proto (3) - scorri, NekoRex, Paulina

Serious Bananas (2) - Balcerzak, Xinnidy

NekoRex (2) - Levity, Blitz

scorri (1) - Baldrick

Helios (1) - Proto

Voteless Scum (3): Shinori, Sho, Snike

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. You have ~18 hours left in the day.

[Xinnidy]

I guess a long day of uni and a long shower is unironically a good way to rest from the internet.

While I did let frustation speak louder, I'm pretty impressed with some of the reactions. But I guess I should answer some straightforward stuff first.

That was a bit too dramatic for my tastes. Calling people names does not find scum, and contributes to the fluff problem. Also, did you miss the post where Bal said he idled?

I did not look at the posts at page 21(40ppp) while making that post, the earliest I had seen was the neko post I quoted.

You went from having no scumreads to blatant OMGUS, great. The over-the-top rhetoric does not amount to a good reaction, IMO.

Shinori, this is really terrible logic, I can think of no reason for that and it seems like an overly accusatory bit of rolespec. Besides, no one would claim it then, since their buddies would be likely to get lynched after they flipped.

Reading over Shinori's ISO now, I actually really don't like his posts much. There's some minor useful stuff, a lot of "I skimmed the thread and don't know anything but I'll say some stuff anyway" posts, and a lot of saying he's busy. Now I'm not saying being busy isn't legit, I'm just saying he seems really careful to not look inactive, and not so careful to post much content.

Also, I don't particularly think Neko is scum.

##Vote: Xinnidy

Apparently everyone unvoted him, not just a few people to prevent an early lynch? I would have voted him earlier, but I thought there was still a big wagon.

>One line mention of me yet again

>Casually places vote while talking about Neko.

:/

Y'see, the thing I have against you is that intent to casually set up on me so that you can vote when I look the scummier. And you're not the only person that has shown signs like this.

I did have half a mind to lure and bring scum down with me should I get lynched for that post, so I did not spare on my reactions.

[spoiler=spoiler because moot point]

Oh my, I never considered that the mafia kill, which of course typically coincides with the towniest player or most important role, is going to be the same as the vig shot, typically the scummiest player in the game.

But I'm sure that the odds of that are dreadfully low.

I never said that it was a likely thing to happen and didn't have reason to believe Bal's reads on who is the towniest or scummiest player had to match most of the game's considering he had just subbed in, but it's a moot point after he claimed to have idled and you claimed doc, and your vote held more ground in this instance I wasn't aware of.

Xinnidy's D1 explanation for his stance on Lucina is not good enough for me. It was an exceptional circumstance and dismissing his reaction as meta is lazy. I don't think it was opportunism, she would've stood her ground on Lucina since the reasons she gave were fairly solid.

I get the impression she was being protective of Lucina. In addition to the meta, she talks a lot about Lucina and FE13, linking it to his apathy, and there's also this;

doesn't really sit well with this;

and his defense of Lucina's claim against NekoRex is strange, trying to speculate on what happened before you find out Bal's actions isn't productive. And Neko's ninja post is my opinion on the likelihood the mafia kill and the vig kill intersecting.

The overreaction is a null tell for me, I've seen players of both alignments get aggressive when they feel under pressure so I wouldn't read too much into it. That said, she's complaining about being considered low on content when she hides a lot of content posts behind spoilers, makes me wonder whether she's on top of her defenses.

##Vote: Xinnidy

A claim or a solid response (which I found unlikely from lucina) would be ideal to react to prims' joat claim and figure things out at that time.

My defense on Lucina's claim during day 2 was not meant to be something taken definitively, but a reason to wait for Balcerzak to post before pushing a lynch on him.

Obviously I was a bit too late on that.

I will admit on bias towards Lucina for interacting with her on a daily basis, that was a personal thing and I don't intend on continuing it.

Also I like my posts in spoilers to not spam people with large walls of quotes since I tend to answer in short phrases between quotes but I'm getting a distaste of the formatting glitch that happens.

##Unvote I wish reasons to trash my scumreads wouldn't keep cropping up.

That was a bit quick, however. It doesn't sit well with me that you bring new points on my case and quickly undoes it when somebody else claims to have reasons to believe I'm town.

##Unvote

Those two votes are the ones that stand out the most to me, and so far that establishes my two scummier reads. Baldrick's quick vote flinch is very weird from my point of view, and Kay, along with being the Rockerslot that I found very scummy, hasn't done much to assure she's legitimately trying to look for scummy people.

##Vote: Kay

There's still a good time left for today, so let me look at what else can be addressed.

I was waiting to see what balc did before I outted what happened.

I had a vest which was shot last night. I was waiting to see what Balc did so I could see if there was a possibility of two kills happening at all last night or if balc might claim to have shot someone or to see if he claimed to have shot me. I probably could have outted it earlier but I felt it was better to wait and see what Balc did.

Adding on to the claim you posted not long ago, that's a fair point that, I believe, tells that the role deleter is indeed mafia other than a messy townie/itp. The mafia kill would be aimed at someone whom is pretty much confirmed town, and they would conveniently remove a questioned alignment power role from play.

Probably too much speculation but that makes me feel even safer about Ma-

##Unvote ##Vote: Xinnidy

I already had my opinion on Xinnidy and he hasn't really changed it much(he just had some argument with Helios so yeah)

Neko how does you protecting me make me town though?

That

Feels kind of lazy.

... Okay on rereading I see you voted me once in day 1 and I forgot. I think I get what you're trying to say but the parenthesis reasoning does not feel very thought out to contribute to your reasoning much.

I'm going to take a while to read more stuff, but I've seen Proto defending my case a bit while I wasn't online.

I'm just going to say I have reasons to believe what he's saying of being aware of me and my actions from out of thread sources and context hints I'm not going to say. I will not say much else at the moment, and would like him to not say anything about my role in thread unless something absolutely calls for it.

[Percivalé]

I'm going to take a while to read more stuff, but I've seen Proto defending my case a bit while I wasn't online.

I'm just going to say I have reasons to believe what he's saying of being aware of me and my actions from out of thread sources and context hints I'm not going to say. I will not say much else at the moment, and would like him to not say anything about my role in thread unless something absolutely calls for it.

I support this. I have reason to believe Xin holds truth in her words and yeah don't lynch her

[Percivalé]

I was just speaking honestly. =/ Proto has been my top scumread for awhile now, after Eclipse (which I've pretty much given up on). It might not have sounded town, but I'm that frustrated with his unwillingness to contribute relevant reads.

THIS makes me suspicious of Paulina, for the reason that town vote people because they think they're scum, not because they're "they're being unhelpful." Scum will often do this so they can vote someone

1. Without actually scumhunting and

2. Safely, since someone who is being useless to town can be made into an easy mislynch and not a lot of people will think much of it.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paulina

[Bluedoom]

First off I'm sorry guys for my inactivity but I'm busy with schoolwork and finals are coming up in a week. There's a good chance I'm going to subout sometime soon.

1. Next time I hear someone saying they've got info that suggests said player is town, I'm going to keep my vote on said player. I already have no idea why Neko thought I was town, but now with people saying there's reasons why Xinny is town, I'm kinda confused.

2. Scorri's vote history is not helping her case. Helios vote D1 looked like an OMGUS, and then Proto vote is because of his rolespeccing. Again, with about a day left for endphase at that time, I don't really see how a Proto vote would've been contributing. If anything, on the small chance Mancer was not lynched, Proto would've been turbolynched, those kind of lynches aren't any better. That really looked like you were avoiding big wagons.

D2 vote on me was shortlived and recent Proto vote is just easy and with the same reasoning. I may not be saying much about you but that doesn't mean I haven't been keeping an eye on you. With recent events I'd like to see if you've got any associative reads.

3. I agree with Bizz in that we shouldn't lynch Proto based off of his rolespeccing (hence I haven't voted him yet).

4. I'm not sure what's the deal with the 4 votes on Kay's wagon? The only reasoning that is clearer is Rein's reasoning, otherwise its just people complaining about lack of content(as far as I'm understanding it.) Kay's playstyle is generally one-liners and no big content posts and I'm not really feeling the case on her as of yet. I don't really see how Xin felt the Rocker playerspot was so 'scummy' since the guy hardly posted in the firstplace and IMO Rocker was non-existent. I don't like SB's vote on kay, in fact.

I don't think my target it important if I haven't claimed my role yet, so I plan on keeping it to myself.

##Vote: Kay

Her content is a little stronger than Rocker's, but that's not really saying much after wading through Rocker's fluff, and it's not enough to alleviate my suspicions. With my stronger scumreads claimed already I think Kay is the best option.

I'd be alright with a Proto lynch, but I'd like to hear from a calmer Xinn before fully making up my mind on her.

Bold: I know I did something similar with BBM and Manix N0 but that's because it was N0 and I had little to work with. I don't like that statement however because there's plenty of content to work with so I don't see why you're voting Kay now. What if Kay claims a good role? Then what?

Bad rolefishing is bad. ##Unvote ##Vote: SB

5. I'm still reading Helios as town but this is mostly meta. Scum! Helios picks the best times to use bad logic and make people look bad- ED1 vote on Scorri wasn't a great time to use that logic IMO. D2 votes and arguments with Xin read as town because it looks like he's really trying hard to win the argument with Xin which reminds me of his townplay in ToS against me. Scum! Helios has horrible reasoning too, I mean look at games like .hack and Void and you'll see a difference.

[Paulina]

1. Without actually scumhunting and

Lev, I mentioned several times that I believe Proto is scum because of his sole reliance on role/flavorspec, without contributing solid -- i.e., substantiated -- reads. He has been active lurking for at least 90% of the game. Beside not giving us literally any info to work with, it feels like he's trying to lay low, show up, and mark his active townie box. Proto was at the top of my previous scumlist several days ago, after Eclipse (here, with reads). He was also my primary choice for the vig shot last night. If you disagree with his scumminess, that's fine -- but don't disregard my case on him.

On the topic of Proto, I mentioned you in my last (big) post. I'd like some clarification on this.

Also, I've been weirded out by Levity's consistent defense of Proto. Levvy, you've been going on about this for like four days now. Besides one or two posts like this (i.e. clearly stated read, but not much justification), I don't believe Proto has posted anything other than constant role/flavorspec. Doesn't that seem lazy/scummy to you? ._. Do you have some out-of-thread reason to believe he's legit?

[BBM]

I dislike how even though Kay has come to the thread and made one or two posts since I and other people have voted for her, she hasn't made a single attempt to defend herself.

While the Proto/Xinny/Bizz triangle defence is weird, it makes me more confident that they're not scum, because they'd be sticking their necks out an awful lot.

[Kriemhild]

Paulina, I never said there was no multi-Mafia. I just explained that there is absolutely nothing that implies that there are multiple Mafias. The only players that would have good reason to suspect multi-Mafia would be Mafia members because their individual factions would be kinda small (Shinori confirmed 15 Town, so multi-Mafia would be 3x2, single Mafia would be 5-6 with a potential neutral). That's why I find it suspicious to bring up multiball theories.

And you voted for me because of my flavor speculation? My initial theory of ShoM losing his role because of his target was proven wrong by Blues suffering from the same role loss. Because of that, I suspect that there's an active Role Deleter. What benefit do I get from such speculation? Well, I have no doubt that this active Role Deleter is scum, which makes me conclude that ShoM is Town. I never felt that ShoM was Town, until after this speculation. So yes, it did help me, and I wasn't just wasting time with worthless flavorspec. If you don't agree with my conclusion, that's fine, but I believe ShoM is Town because of that.

[Percivalé]

I just don't like the reasoning behind most of the Proto votes in general ;/

[eclipse]

First, a public service announcement: PREVIEW YOUR POSTS. If any new posts crop up while you're typing a wall of text, they'll appear under the topic summary. Second, OMG REIN POSTED!

What is this, Push eclipse's Buttons day? I was kind of tired, and after reading this thread, I'm extremely unhappy.

##Unvote

Bal, did Lucina's claiming affect your decision-making in any way?

Neko's seems to be stretching himself a bit thin, which is unwise if you're feeling overwhelmed by the sheer amount of content. Building up a case on the strongest scumreads would be best, I think.

Xinnidy's D1 explanation for his stance on Lucina is not good enough for me. It was an exceptional circumstance and dismissing his reaction as meta is lazy. I don't think it was opportunism, she would've stood her ground on Lucina since the reasons she gave were fairly solid.

I get the impression she was being protective of Lucina. In addition to the meta, she talks a lot about Lucina and FE13, linking it to his apathy, and there's also this;

doesn't really sit well with this;

and his defense of Lucina's claim against NekoRex is strange, trying to speculate on what happened before you find out Bal's actions isn't productive. And Neko's ninja post is my opinion on the likelihood the mafia kill and the vig kill intersecting.

The overreaction is a null tell for me, I've seen players of both alignments get aggressive when they feel under pressure so I wouldn't read too much into it. That said, she's complaining about being considered low on content when she hides a lot of content posts behind spoilers, makes me wonder whether she's on top of her defenses.

##Vote: Xinnidy

Spoiler tags being a reason to vote? I don't buy this, because this has nothing to do with WHAT she posted.

Neko: I have no idea what happened on that other forum, but my condolences, and I think you're a cool person.

##Unvote I wish reasons to trash my scumreads wouldn't keep cropping up.

I don't like this, either. Instead of complaining, read/analyze better. List out stuff that's already been claimed in a Notepad file, if it's too much for you.

Shinori, your role is the best.

I'm going to need a sub. I just can't focus on this game right now, alongside my other commitments and schoolwork.

Dammit. And not just because we're both alive. Your text walls were helping to keep me sane.

I think I see what Bizz sees, and this clears Proto by extension. However, the "intentionally scummy" part of your argument makes me want to keep my vote on you as a policy lynch. . .but that's not playing to my win condition, no matter how badly I wish I was a dayvig so I could shoot you as a lesson on why you don't pull that. Proto, even if you are what I think you are, less flavor/role spec, and more focus on what's being posted in-thread.

THIS makes me suspicious of Paulina, for the reason that town vote people because they think they're scum, not because they're "they're being unhelpful." Scum will often do this so they can vote someone

1. Without actually scumhunting and

2. Safely, since someone who is being useless to town can be made into an easy mislynch and not a lot of people will think much of it.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paulina

This is hypocritical, and here's why:

Proto is being rather unhelpful, and I am not a huge fan of massive flavor/role spec; thus, the vote.

You're the best, Prims~!

I cannot see how prolonged flavor/role spec will help the town to win. Thus, my vote.

That was a bit too dramatic for my tastes. Calling people names does not find scum, and contributes to the fluff problem. Also, did you miss the post where Bal said he idled?

Does that make me scum yet?

Now, of the people being thrown around as scummy. . .I'm not happy with Kay's reason for not voting Xinnidy sooner, but that's not quite enough for me to support that lynch. Bananas has been posting relatively sanely, which is something I want to keep around. On a third reread, scorri's becoming slightly more memorable; Helios, not so much.

##Unvote

##Vote: Helios

Dude, you're blending in way too much. You've been posting, and I should have an opinion on you, but what you've been posting has been so bland that I don't. Stand out!

---

Now, the stuff that's bothering me on a deeper level (besides the concept of "intentionally scummy"):

No. Not cool. Laughing at someone's non-off-topic posts while trying to get them lynched is not classy, ESPECIALLY after some nameless asshat laughed at your serious case against her. I'm SURE you enjoyed that (end sarcasm), so why do it to others?

I will get you lynched you fucker

I sure as fuck hope this is you crumbing your role (and if you want to prove it, I will gladly volunteer so I don't have to deal with this), because this attitude was the reason why I dropped as a sub from Midnight Crew. You don't dictate lynches; everyone does.

[Percivalé]

ECLIPSE I WAS KIDDING OMG I WASN'T BEING SERIOUS WHEN I SAID THAT

[Percivalé]

jesus christ though eclipse calm down, i know i'm not one to talk but don't take everything you read super seriously as you've been taking them, you're going to make your blood pressure high

[eclipse]

You'll have to forgive me for having a lack of humor in such games. Let it go on the record that I can't tell if such things are a joke unless you make it painfully obvious.

[BBM]

I actually think that Helios's later posts are more memorable than his early ones. I do agree with what you said about Paulina's last post, though (although I don't think she's scum). Paulina, when people do things that frustrate you, don't do them to other people. I don't get how Bizz is hypocritical for thinking that voting someone for being useless is scummy. How is comparing your posts using "you're not helping town" prove that she is hypocritical?

also lolbizz

[Percivalé]

eclipse I don't like that you vote people for being useless either, but you're towntelling pretty hard, and therefore I'm not going to vote you because I don't think you're scum. If I voted you because I thought you were being useless to town, THEN I'd be hypocritical. I didn't really want to mention it at first though because it would sound like passive-aggressive fluff and I don't want to do that.

Let me also bring your attention to

I just don't like the reasoning behind most of the Proto votes in general ;/

[Percivalé]

also ftr @eclipse I like the reasoning behind your votes more recently and I don't think you're being useless to town, I just disagree with some of your scumhunting methods. Not like that should make a difference how you play or anything/my read on you this game.

I highly advise against lynching Proto or Xin today.

[Percivalé]

I do agree with what you said about Paulina's last post, though (although I don't think she's scum).

Why?

Sorry for triple post

[Xinnidy]

Losing a post and not having a decent backup on notepad sucks, I feel doof.

I have to look onto SB, I know he asked me a question somewhere I still have to reply... but here's a question I meant to ask first, Blitz is still a scumread, right? He still didn't claim, I don't even know how much weight you're putting on claims with fakeclaims being probably easy to fabricate, but you haven't mentioned for a good while, and you seemed to be as strong about him as you were about Neko.

Marth, Neko thought the mafia kill was on you and he saved you with his night action, are you still confused?

I think I see what Bizz sees, and this clears Proto by extension. However, the "intentionally scummy" part of your argument makes me want to keep my vote on you as a policy lynch. . .but that's not playing to my win condition, no matter how badly I wish I was a dayvig so I could shoot you as a lesson on why you don't pull that. Proto, even if you are what I think you are, less flavor/role spec, and more focus on what's being posted in-thread.

"intentionally scummy"...?

Wait I'm assuming you mean

I did have half a mind to lure and bring scum down with me should I get lynched for that post, so I did not spare on my reactions.

I was told again and again that emotions are a nullread, and felt as much from reading some mafia games (though they can mess stuff a lot), so I let my frustration speak for itself, as long as I didn't feel I hurt anyone in a personal level, that's a big no for me. If that motivated my scum suspicions to vote on me and worse did get to worse, I would have outed all I suspected and knew before I'd get lynched, trying to pass as scum was not my intention. And I apologize if that still annoys you and will note it for future games.

[Baldrick]

A clarification on the "content in spoilers" thing - it wasn't by itself a reason I was voting Xinnidy. I thought her content was decent but noted she often put it in spoiler tags (for aesthetic reasons, I've found out). When she was answering the filler accusations she didn't bring that up, which made me think the overreaction was strange because townie ORs tend to have a good counterpoint behind it. I don't know if I've made my thought process very clear.

Xinnidy, I've explained why Proto's appeal seemed genuine to me, and so by extension made you less likely to be scum. Timing be damned, I don't think I should keep my vote on someone when I'm no longer confident that they're scum.

Eclipse, Leder's thing was a reference to Presidential Mafia (read it - it's practically a brochure compared to this game!) Don't let the lack of exclamations marks fool you.