Percivalé Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 It's okay no one can be as bad at mafia as I am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 It's okay no one can be as bad at mafia as I am camdar and you need to fight over that title using gummi worms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I would probably eat all of the gummi worms ): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Nothing here I derped =.= Edited March 3, 2013 by Senbonzakura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) lol wrong game/account bud Edited March 3, 2013 by BBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulina Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 First of all Eclipse, thank you. Your tone is not nearly as aggressive (it's not at all aggressive) as I was expecting. I'm glad this doesn't have to be heated. If I sound hostile, it's not a reflection on my current state of mind; I'm just describing some negative experience. Back this up with quotes. I have my own theories regarding this, and I want to see whether or not I'm wrong. These episodes weren't as frequent as your generalized hostility. Quoting them here feels a little petty, tbh. Obviously, I don't think it's as important. Do I look like I give a shit about the role deleter? I also really appreciate being misrepped about what I said N0, because I did NOT say anything about my role being scummy. "I think X is suspicious for whatever reason, and not only are my reasons terrible, I don't have the guts to back it up with a vote!" If you'd do things like read WHY I voted the way I have, and my general attitude towards the rest of you following me, you MIGHT understand the logic behind my posts! I feel like you either didn't take the time to comprehend what I've posted so far, or you're intentionally misunderstanding me. Also, voting someone that is one of your town reads, especially early, is an extremely weak reason to be suspicious of someone. I can't see this as a serious drive to lynch me. And to add to your call of posting role PMs, stop posting your town reads unless they're in danger of being lynched. I sure as fuck hope this is you crumbing your role (and if you want to prove it, I will gladly volunteer so I don't have to deal with this), because this attitude was the reason why I dropped as a sub from Midnight Crew. You don't dictate lynches; everyone does. SF formatting ftl. =_= The first was in response to BBM. He had made an innocuous, game-related post; his tone was mild and polite. The abrasiveness of your reaction caught me off-guard. No other player ever spoke like this (at least until my sub; not sure about after). Even when I was being scumread by Shinori, Kay et al., I didn't feel personally uncomfortable. I'm not sure how BBM took this remark, but he became noticeably hostile afterward. In our incident, I had posted a list of scumreads with several specific quotes. Your reply was caustic. Did the ALL CAPS thing, mocked my trains of thought, and called me a coward in two instances (or "gutless," whatever works). At the time, I was proud to have written my first scumlist, and of how politely I had treated you. This reaction hit me like a train. I had to physically catch my breath -- I felt defaced. Levity had made an innocuous joke. Your response felt intensely hostile, like a personal threat. Like BBM, I was offended you had spoken to her like that, but this was also pretty ironic. This statement came literally right after you professed the virtues of being polite. Sigh. If I thought you were a hypocrite before, I wanted to tattoo the word on your forehead by this point. You mentioned later on that you had misunderstood her, but this came about in a weird way. Fsr, she ended up apologizing to you. I remember you posted elsewhere that you wanted to be more confident. The first step of that is an honest self-evaluation. What are you really good at? What are you bad at? What sets you off? Why do you do what you do? Stuff like that should give you a clearer picture of yourself. I'm willing to post what kinds of qualities I see in you (both good and bad), based on your posts. However, you don't seem to take bluntness well, which is why I'm asking you first. If you're well and truly serious about playing mafia, it'll help you to know your own weaknesses (this'll help in RL, too; if there's one thing I won't do, it's lie to you). This felt pretty condescending. If it was just an offer in good faith, thanks – I appreciate the thought. But that being said, this is a game on a message forum. I'm not the person I sound like online. And I realize you aren't, either. I probably have no idea who you really are – it's so easy for personality and tone to get lost through text. But on the flip side of the coin, if I've come off as some insecure, emotional woman, I hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt and not jump to those conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Yay, now I get to dissect what's wrong with your views (that was me being polite, and since you can't tell the difference, I'll stick to being bluntly honest; at least I sleep better at night when I say what's on my mind). 1. "Hey, why aren't you concerned about the amount of road construction going on in Kaimuki? I REALLY want you to think that this is important!" I'm pretty sure you aren't familiar with that specific area, let alone care about what's happening there. My priorities are just that, and calling someone out because they don't share the same priorities ED1 in a mafia game is an extremely stupid reason to be suspicious of someone. I'm not going to bother with the second part; telling someone that they're wrong, especially in that context, isn't an insult. 2. That post is exactly what it says, which is "you threw out accusations without a vote (which really is gutless), and they are for stupidly weak reasons." There is a distinct difference between ripping arguments to shreds and ripping YOU to shreds (the former happens all the time in mafia games, the latter is more forum-dependent). 3. You'd have to know a lot more about this history of this forum and Midnight Crew/Presidential for you to understand Bizz's actions. The fact that you're commenting on this with no such knowledge tells me that you're, once again, not reading things thoroughly. I offered it in the hopes that you'd have the courage to face your own weaknesses. As long as you're unable/unwilling to see the flaws in yourself, you'll never get past why I seem "so insulting" or why no one's really agreeing with you. Either way, yours is not a healthy mindset to play mafia, and until you show me that you're willing to change yourself for the better, I will not allow you to play in any of the games I host. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 i was going to say something along the lines of "i find eclipse to be very good at the psychological aspect of mafia and being super-intimidating tends to make people slip under pressure" but i think she already has that covered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 i was going to say something along the lines of "i find eclipse to be very good at the psychological aspect of mafia and being super-intimidating tends to make people slip under pressure" but i think she already has that covered Cam you're the best--wait, that means you can't be the worst, which will probably cause some sort of space-time rip and--CURSE YOU CAMDAR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Mafia is a game about arguments and people aren't at their nicest when arguing. It seems to me that Paulina is taking offense to insults that aren't there. eclipse doesn't actually antagonize or insult people (unless they're me in an anon game but I got her vigged so it's okay) so much as use aggressive rhetoric when debating so while that might be worth toning down a little if people find it unpleasant* I don't think it's really a big issue imo the response to Levity was more on the defensive than the offensive, too. *ftr some eclipse posts do rub me the wrong way but they're not really any more forceful than I can be when mad @ mafia gaems so I just roll with it. I'm relatively thick-skinned though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Mafia is a game about arguments and people aren't at their nicest when arguing. It seems to me that Paulina is taking offense to insults that aren't there. eclipse doesn't actually antagonize or insult people (unless they're me in an anon game but I got her vigged so it's okay) so much as use aggressive rhetoric when debating so while that might be worth toning down a little if people find it unpleasant* I don't think it's really a big issue imo the response to Levity was more on the defensive than the offensive, too. *ftr some eclipse posts do rub me the wrong way but they're not really any more forceful than I can be when mad @ mafia gaems so I just roll with it. I'm relatively thick-skinned though yeah, and then you regretted it also, you're not Paperblade Apparently, I'm naturally insulting, so much so that even my neutral tone is unacceptable. I try to keep things in game context, so even if I start screaming at someone *cough*BBM*cough*, it doesn't mean I'm going to find him and make his RL miserable or something. If you guys are being reasonable with the "tone down" requests, I'll probably comply. . . . . .unless I get another goddamn (functional) vanilla role/a role where I'm trying to get myself killed, in which case, I will do everything in my power to die (in other words, had there been a non-flimsy case against me, I would've found a way to support it). I also get bent out of shape if I feel that someone's trying to dictate the lynch ("no this person isn't being lynched today" in midday, for example). Wait, why am I meta-ing myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Generally I like to remind people that not everyone has a tough skin like some other people and I don't believe in "suck it up and get over it, mafia is not a nice game" bullshit that DM likes to spout all the time but that's just me In addition I realize some people don't mean to sound offensive or aggressive and I respect that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 even if not everyone has tough skin, there's eventually a point where it starts being the problem of the person reacting rather than the person provoking, particularly when the game is a lot worse off due to the reaction than it would have been if the provoker kept doing what they were doing and nobody batted an eye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 It's true that not everyone who plays mafia has a thick skin. But more so than that, a lot of times how the person will react has a lot to do with IRL stuff that may be affecting him or her. Real life stress can make people who already aren't the best at handling certain things handle them even less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The thing is, people make mistakes and we all do things we regret in the end, including reactions to provocations. All we can really do after those kinds of mistakes is try to improve or at least change how we handle certain situations by identifying the reaction, what caused it, and wat could be done to avoid them in the future. There will still be mistakes, and we all need to equally respect that in order to function as a community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancerNecro Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Just look at my reactions in CMV when I was super upset IRL and the border was broken. At least I'm not like that now (I hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Just look at my reactions in CMV when I was super upset IRL and the border was broken. At least I'm not like that now (I hope). I'll. . .give you more thoughts once we're out of both mafias. This extends to BBM (I should've told this to you earlier, but I forgot, sorry). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancerNecro Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Uhhh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Uhhh... It's not something bad. Since we're both active in a game, I figured it wouldn't be a good idea to dump my thoughts on such matters until we're both officially out of said game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancerNecro Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulina Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 But I liked the polite post. Sigh. I'm not going to hash this out ad infinitum. This is an energy drain. 2. That post is exactly what it says, which is "you threw out accusations without a vote (which really is gutless), and they are for stupidly weak reasons." There is a distinct difference between ripping arguments to shreds and ripping YOU to shreds (the former happens all the time in mafia games, the latter is more forum-dependent). You've been saying I acted out of fear since D1. You did it right there. Like I was some little wimp, afraid to defend myself. I waited for your opinion out of consideration, and nothing else. If you can't see how being misrepped like this might have felt personal, that's pretty amazing. I offered it in the hopes that you'd have the courage to face your own weaknesses. As long as you're unable/unwilling to see the flaws in yourself, you'll never get past why I seem "so insulting" or why no one's really agreeing with you. I'm the one unwilling to admit shortcomings? Ughh. You frequently like to give Eclipse 101. Here's a little Paulina 101. I'm typically a nice person – I try to do right by other people. Sometimes I mess up, and when I hurt someone, I'm big enough to own up. I live by these values, and they make me happy. It seems like you think I'm just too sensitive or emotional to comprehend your writing. I've read every word you've written; my state of mind couldn't be clearer. I don't think you're understanding where I'm coming from yet. Either way, yours is not a healthy mindset to play mafia, and until you show me that you're willing to change yourself for the better, I will not allow you to play in any of the games I host. Honestly. Get off your high horse. This is an argument on a forum, not some deep-seated vendetta. Do you understand why I wrote this post? I'll try to concisely clarify the message here. I'm not trying to condescend you -- I just genuinely am not sure. Everyone in this game was as sweet as molasses. You were the only negative presence. Uno. Solamente. If you want to talk hardcore gameplay, there were plenty of tough players here, like BBM and Helios. Even when they were going after someone hard -- and they did -- they kept it civil. And moreover, they were having fun. They didn't act like this game was some horrible chore, and they couldn't stand being around the rest of us. I played with nineteen other people who shared my mindset. And it was a blast. My values and this game's were in agreement 99% of the time. I don't want to argue with you 'til the cows come home. You probably disagree with something I've said, and that's fine. Have at it, say your piece. I've already learned what I wanted to know. Anyway, some general stuff for anyone still here. This game was pretty frustrating, but it was also a lot of fun. If you were one of the people who tried to make it fun, thanks. =) There were a lot of us. On a personal level, SF2 was educational for me. I'd heard about the "Eclipses and Obviams" of the board, but I hadn't seen "aggressive play" in-thread. This isn't foreign to me anymore, and it won't be a shock in the future. If it really starts to irritate me, I'll just ignore the content. Btw, kudos town. Also, Shinori, you jerk. I knew you were scum. X) That being said, Eclipse, one last thing. You've said several times that you don't think I'm a bad person, and I believed you. This wasn't falling on deaf ears. I don't think you're a bad person either. You probably don't care, but it's just the truth. I think we're pretty different people, so butting heads like this was probably inevitable. (Have you heard of the True Colors aptitude test? I was reminded of this several times. I'm a blue, you're a green. I'm the Sumia, you're the Miriel. Neither is inherently wrong – they just assess problems in completely different ways.) Anyway, I'm drawing a line at this game. The next time we play, I won't be bearing any grudges. And when I bump into you on the forums, there's no hard feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Obviam isn't really an aggressive asshole he's just a gay creep on IRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Obviam isn't really an aggressive asshole he's just a gay creep on IRC lol pretty much this Life would be a better example than Obviam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoRex Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Hey, Prims. Seems like your points were ignored. Please accept my apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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