FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Florete]

I think auto-C implies that they already have it when they join, which they don't.

[dondon151]

no need to be pedantic here, people

[Blademaster!]

No one does.

All the children characters do.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Blademaster!

[eclipse]

All the children characters do.

We're not tiering children, since it's uncertain as to how they'd fit in. Thus, their auto-C with their parents is moot.

[MercuryHg34]

Children get auto-c support with parents and siblings when a new child is recruited, Though that's not relevant to Nowi in this case. Interceptor is still right about Nowi and Gregor pairing up being almost necessary for that chapter.

[Bryan]

All the children characters do.

Oh, I forgot about them. I was thinking just of the parent characters.

Children get auto-c support with parents and siblings when a new child is recruited, Though that's not relevant to Nowi in this case. Interceptor is still right about Nowi and Gregor pairing up being almost necessary for that chapter.

They don't actually have to see combat though, If you're using them then it would be dumb not to, but it's still possible.

[Interceptor]

Great. Are we done with this now? There plenty of other completely pointless things to argue about, and I would hate to see "existence of auto-support in an irrelevant situation" take all of the oxygen out of the room, when we could be throwing down about more important things, such as whether Cordelia's tier position should be impacted by the loss of her custom colors on promotion.

[grandjackal]

Well, to put in a real good suggestion, how about Lonqu above Stahl?

Lonqu's support can basically fix anyone's speed (ok most, not fixing anyone with a terribad base speed, like Stahl for example), and allows him to play purely supportive in someone's pocket before he's dropped, or he can play like a real unit with a defense booster in his pocket (Kellam works wonders for him). His speed support is actually rare since the other speed classes are Chrom, or flying units who have issues frontlining. Speaking of flying units, he pairs greatly with Cherche, which gives a pretty amazing Gerome who could have either Quickburn or Deliverer, along with...Well any skill up to 5 promoted (Lethality on a flying unit sounds fun though it's unreliable, and I'm sure Gerome would enjoy the +1 movement from the support on top of Deliverer). Essentially there are multiple ways for Lonqu to be helpful both long term and short term, thus leaving him to be flexible in any team composition.

Though I only say this because I haven't really used Stahl...I suppose if he supports someone already fast that gives a speed support he'd be cool, but he'd have to build that support up first and get some levels,cause that base speed is unimpressive. He starts real early, but 6 base speed still kinda sucks.

[Bryan]

Well, to put in a real good suggestion, how about Lonqu above Stahl?

Lonqu's support can basically fix anyone's speed (ok most, not fixing anyone with a terribad base speed, like Stahl for example), and allows him to play purely supportive in someone's pocket before he's dropped, or he can play like a real unit with a defense booster in his pocket (Kellam works wonders for him). His speed support is actually rare since the other speed classes are Chrom, or flying units who have issues frontlining. Speaking of flying units, he pairs greatly with Cherche, which gives a pretty amazing Gerome who could have either Quickburn or Deliverer, along with...Well any skill up to 5 promoted (Lethality on a flying unit sounds fun though it's unreliable, and I'm sure Gerome would enjoy the +1 movement from the support on top of Deliverer). Essentially there are multiple ways for Lonqu to be helpful both long term and short term, thus leaving him to be flexible in any team composition.

Though I only say this because I haven't really used Stahl...I suppose if he supports someone already fast that gives a speed support he'd be cool, but he'd have to build that support up first and get some levels,cause that base speed is unimpressive. He starts real early, but 6 base speed still kinda sucks.

I support this. Lon'qu can do wonders and Stahl has a major speed problem unless he gets reclassed, and there are plenty of other units I'd rather use Second Seals on.

Great. Are we done with this now? There plenty of other completely pointless things to argue about, and I would hate to see "existence of auto-support in an irrelevant situation" take all of the oxygen out of the room, when we could be throwing down about more important things, such as whether Cordelia's tier position should be impacted by the loss of her custom colors on promotion.

Donnel always has a pot on his head. I think this deserves S tier.

Donnel for S tier

Edited March 22, 2013 by Bryan

[Florete]

Donnel is like Nino except he comes early rather than late.

God Tier.

[Bryan]

Donnel is like Nino except he comes early rather than late.

God Tier.

Srsly. He's great. The hate of him stems from est hate. Come on guys, his start isn't that bad. This isn't Lunatic, this is lolhard.

[Florete]

The difficulties are more like this anyway:

Normal - Joke mode, beat it with your eyes closed.

Hard - Normal

Lunatic - Hard

Lunatic+ - YOU SHALL NOT PASS

Ahem...Anyway, I do feel like Morgan could be tiered with everyone else, possibly as Morgan (F) and Morgan (M) to account for different parents and class sets. It would just assume that Morgan's other parent comes early enough that Avatar can be married in between Ch 13 and 14 at the latest so you can go get Morgan immediately. So the cutoff would probably be Tharja/Libra.

[Interceptor]

Donnel is like Nino except he comes early rather than late.

Lies. He doesn't have an adorable skirt.

Srsly. He's great. The hate of him stems from est hate. Come on guys, his start isn't that bad. This isn't Lunatic, this is lolhard.

Oh sure, his start isn't that bad. We just have to get him to 10/1 and stuff a Second Seal down his throat, when his base mt is 7, he would convincingly lose an arm-wrestling match to Sumia, and he would get doubled by a base level no-Pair no-scope Chrom. All this aggravation and babying eventually leads to a unit that's actually good, but he's got a lot of student loan debt to pay off.

At least Est was cute.

[Espinosa]

I think the earlier equivalent for Donnel everybody is looking for is called "Ross".

[Florete]

Lies. He doesn't have an adorable skirt.

This is true. I have no rebuttal.

Oh sure, his start isn't that bad. We just have to get him to 10/1 and stuff a Second Seal down his throat, when his base mt is 7, he would convincingly lose an arm-wrestling match to Sumia, and he would get doubled by a base level no-Pair no-scope Chrom. All this aggravation and babying eventually leads to a unit that's actually good, but he's got a lot of student loan debt to pay off.

At least Est was cute.

And because of this, no one is (seriously) arguing that he go any higher than Virion.

[Khan of Blades]

I think the earlier equivalent for Donnel everybody is looking for is called "Ross".

At least Ross has the Hatchet.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Khan of Blades

[hinode]

FE8 Trainees had huge exp bonuses due to their low class power, whereas Donnel gains exp at the same rate as any other unpromoted PC. As a consequence, it takes Donnel a lot longer than Ross to dig out of his initial hole of suck.

Conversely Donnel's growths are actually really good, unlike the FE8 Trainees, so his endgame stats are way better than theirs. I seriously doubt he's worth the trouble on an efficient playthrough, but I've never actually tried to raise him in one so I can't say for sure.

[KitheOfEvrark]

In any case, cross game comparisons don't really work for tier lists simply because the games are structured so differently. The fact is, regardless of who Donnel is like in the series and his disappointing lack of a skirt, I think we can all agree that the effort Donnel takes to get on par with your other units means that there's no way he's going much higher, if any, on this list.

Ahem...Anyway, I do feel like Morgan could be tiered with everyone else, possibly as Morgan (F) and Morgan (M) to account for different parents and class sets. It would just assume that Morgan's other parent comes early enough that Avatar can be married in between Ch 13 and 14 at the latest so you can go get Morgan immediately. So the cutoff would probably be Tharja/Libra.

Do you have a suggestion as to where he/she would go? I'm not agaisnt putting Morgan on the list, but it just seems hard to figure out a good place, especially when you start thinking about the difference in performance between something like a Kellam!Morgan against a Chrom!Morgan. I guess those could be separated in a similar way to Lucina?

[Florete]

In any case, cross game comparisons don't really work for tier lists simply because the games are structured so differently. The fact is, regardless of who Donnel is like in the series and his disappointing lack of a skirt, I think we can all agree that the effort Donnel takes to get on par with your other units means that there's no way he's going much higher, if any, on this list.

The comparisons to Nino and Est were jokes. I do think he should go above Flavia and Basilio, but the cross-game comparisons are not part of my argument.

Do you have a suggestion as to where he/she would go? I'm not agaisnt putting Morgan on the list, but it just seems hard to figure out a good place, especially when you start thinking about the difference in performance between something like a Kellam!Morgan against a Chrom!Morgan. I guess those could be separated in a similar way to Lucina?

I would say bottom of A or top of B for coming later than most of those people and potentially having a bit of a rough start but basically guaranteed to turn out better than all of them with minimal investment. I don't know how I'd split (M) and (F) versions, though. Maybe it's just the parents I've used for Morgan, but I've not found the non-Avatar parent to have any real impact aside from base weapon levels. The best parent, as a result, would most likely be someone who gives Morgan two weapon levels, so Chrom, Frederick, Stahl, and Sully (and theoretically Lucina and Olivia, but they come too late). But unless the parent is, like, Virion, Lissa, or Maribelle, Morgan shouldn't have any real problems as long as Avatar passes Veteran down.

[Shadow Mir]

I would say bottom of A or top of B for coming later than most of those people and potentially having a bit of a rough start but basically guaranteed to turn out better than all of them with minimal investment. I don't know how I'd split (M) and (F) versions, though. Maybe it's just the parents I've used for Morgan, but I've not found the non-Avatar parent to have any real impact aside from base weapon levels. The best parent, as a result, would most likely be someone who gives Morgan two weapon levels, so Chrom, Frederick, Stahl, and Sully (and theoretically Lucina and Olivia, but they come too late). But unless the parent is, like, Virion, Lissa, or Maribelle, Morgan shouldn't have any real problems as long as Avatar passes Veteran down.

I thought Morgan always started at C for whatever weapon(s) s/he would wield?

[Florete]

I thought Morgan always started at C for whatever weapon(s) s/he would wield?

Yes, precisely. Starting with a C in only Bows or Staves would be problematic. Starting with 2 Cs (as Chrom, Fred, Stahl, and Sully would result in) is better than 1.

Basically I meant two weapon types so that Morgan has a C in both of them already.

[Shadow Mir]

Yes, precisely. Starting with a C in only Bows or Staves would be problematic. Starting with 2 Cs (as Chrom, Fred, Stahl, and Sully would result in) is better than 1.

Basically I meant two weapon types so that Morgan has a C in both of them already.

I see. As to splitting male and female Morgan, I'm unsure on whether that'd really be necessary.

[Florete]

I see. As to splitting male and female Morgan, I'm unsure on whether that'd really be necessary.

It's just a thought to consider since they have completely different potential non-Avatar parents and separate class sets available to them. Then again, if what I said about the non-Avatar parent generally not being significant is true, adding in the fact that Avatar isn't separated by gender means Morgan can probably be one entry with the right assumptions.

[RNG Princess]

Is it a good idea that Donnel makes an excellent husband for Lissa or Olivia? I'm not sure how fast their support grows since I haven't tried it out but Lissa and Olivia don't care for support bonuses because they're not attacking enemies. As long as they're kept out of OHKO range. Or is he better husband material for someone else? That Aptitude skill should be passed down.

[Galenforcer]

Is it a good idea that Donnel makes an excellent husband for Lissa or Olivia? I'm not sure how fast their support grows since I haven't tried it out but Lissa and Olivia don't care for support bonuses because they're not attacking enemies. As long as they're kept out of OHKO range. Or is he better husband material for someone else? That Aptitude skill should be passed down.

Pretty sure Owain and Inigo will still be boggled down by their mother's mediocre stats. And the pair-up bonuses don't real help either of them.