FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Interceptor]

Never used Cherche outside of her joining chapter on either of my runs, although I'd agree that being a flier with low RES (her base RES is TWO, ffs) comes with a lot of liabilities in this game. Awakening is absolutely lousy with archers and mages; effective weapons have 3x mt (unlike the Carebear titles), and enemies are not sparsely distributed (like they are in SD). This alone is a big headwind for Cherche. I think that the mobility advantage of flying might be over-rated as a whole, particularly since this isn't a LTC list. Cherche is just one example; Cord and Sumia (and presumably Panne) have similar problems, although at least in the case of the first two, they aren't in constant danger from every mage in a fifty mile radius.

Hammertime is a thing, but D Axes is not a rarity in your army come Ch12. Even though it's nice to be able to reach out at 7-8 range and smash a hard target with a tasty forge (especially since Armors can be a ORKO issue for your regulars), that in itself isn't really amazing utility for her current tier position.

On another subject, I think that this list might have a Manakete problem. I can't reconcile Tiki and Nowi's placements. If Tiki is so good with her wtflate recruitment time, is Nowi's placement just a reflection of the fact that you have to train her? This might be less of a problem if Tiki is simply overrated in the first place. Currently Nowi is my MVP in a Lunatic run, although this is not Hard mode and it's also not terribly efficient. I'll probably try a Hard mode run afterwards to see how a non-LTC efficiency run would play out, in terms of training and stats vs. enemies (might be terrible).

Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because Manaketes have a really good kit for combat in Awakening:

• Always 1-2 range
  
• Hit DEF instead of RES (avoids the basic problem of Nosferatu)
  
• No effective weaknesses that really matter (Dragon-killers are not super-common outside of your team)
  
• Strong, balanced DEF/RES
  
• Wreck face against Dragon-types
  
• Decent MV (equal to tier 2 foot units)
  
• Class goes up to level 30
  

So if you can leverage it, you have a really solid combatant that can deal with near-everything (except exceptionally-tanky Generals). Nowi is an efficient Seal-user, levels very quickly, has a number of excellent support options, and might be the poster-dragon for an argument to allow stat boosters and such (the pump needs priming, so to speak). Something to think about.

[Florete]

I'll agree that Tiki should go down. Availability is kind of a big deal in this game since there's no Wendy/Sophia/Fiona/etc. character that is basically so bad as to be unusable. Being above the likes of Gaius and Lissa seems really odd for Tiki. I don't know about Nowi going up, though. I'm using her on my current Hard run and yes, she's doing pretty well, killing often while basically never taking damage, but where does she go? She can probably travel above Say'ri or Maribelle, but I don't see her getting any higher than that.

I'm also inclined to argue that F tier be removed and Donnel and Ricken go above Basilio and Flavia, possibly Virion as well, the former two for coming basically at the end of the game and Virion for being stuck as an Archer of all things for 8 levels. And maybe this was just poor luck on my part, but I don't think Virion's Spd growth is very good considering I watched him go 5 levels in a row before he got any +Spd. In the meantime, as mentioned above, no unit is so terrible as to be unusable, and Donnel and Ricken can both make a spot on the team. Donnel is the harder one to get going, but he gets going faster since a class change at level 10 is basically a promotion for him (+2/4 HP, +4/7 Str, +7/4 Skl, +6/4 Spd, +4/3 Def), and a really good one at that. Not only that, by that time his growths should have also kicked in and he's ready to be an ass-kicker for the rest of the game. Ricken is worse, but he can at least hit enemies with powerful shots from afar, particularly those Wyverns in joining map, and to be pretty good once he hits Sage.

[PKL]

Donnel won't have an easier time than ricken at all. By the time he hits Level 10, its too late. And if he hits Level 10 in desert, the Second Seal is very likely to be used by someone else.

Magic units as well as Armorslayers and Rapiers of both kinds kill them pretty well. Panne and Sully also have access to flying Hammer use and Panne, at least, will probably be there. I'm not seeing how Hammer use is so special with all else Cherche needs to make up for.

That's your fault, not hers.

She was kinda amazing in my Lunatic run where I didn't turtle to give her kills. (well, I turtled at times, but never specifically for her) I've never had the least bit of trouble using her in Hard. At least not any more than using Cherche, who has both offense and durability issues from the start.

Naga's Tear, really? The Speedwing may be acceptable since there's kind of a lot of most stat boosters, but this ain't a draft and other units want Spd, too.

Is this a turtling tier list or something? Where I used Tharja was in a draft. In other words LTC, now efficiency isnt all about turns I know, but I expect it to be a bit tough to give Tharja some levels, specially with her crap lck, doesnt quite double spd and trash skl. I see her as more of a support unit. In that role, she can be pretty useful with Anathema and Hex and Dark Knight move+def pair up. But she isn't exactly very hot in any sort of playthrough that doesnt grind or turtles.

EDIT: Also, Armorslayers barely exist. Rapiers dont have enough MT and face WTD mostly from generals. And magic users (aside from lolavatar) aren't exactly that hot in this game.

EDIT: Oh man, I derped and double posted.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[Florete]

Donnel won't have an easier time than ricken at all. By the time he hits Level 10, its too late. And if he hits Level 10 in desert, the Second Seal is very likely to be used by someone else.

Donnel is the harder one to get going, but he gets going faster

I know. But why is it too late? If you're already using him, he's likely the best recipient of a Second Seal. You're not going to get him to level 10 and then use it someone who doesn't even need it that much.

It's not like I'm trying to get him above anyone who's around at that time, anyway, just the people who come at the end of the game and possibly Virion.

Is this a turtling tier list or something?

What, because I turtled a bit in Lunatic? To survive? Cry more. I blow through Hard mode.

EDIT: Also, Armorslayers barely exist. Rapiers dont have enough MT and face WTD mostly from generals. And magic users (aside from lolavatar) aren't exactly that hot in this game.

Half the Generals/Great Knights in the game are using Axes and there are enough Armorslayers to put on 2 Sword units when Generals really start popping up and Noble Rapiers will pick up the slack from Rapiers later on if it really becomes a problem. Avatar, Miriel, and (Levin Sword!)Anna are already ranked well, and since Tharja is in argument here that's a good amount of Mag we're reasonably packing.

I don't know why this is so focused on armors (although I guess tier arguments have a tendency to focus on small stuff), it's not hard to find D rank Axe users and there are good units for Mag, too, plus married partners paired up basically make short work of anything in Hard mode. This is one type of enemy in the game that isn't significantly more common than the rest and should not be Cherche's saving grace.

I wonder when we'll start the Lunatic list.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[PKL]

I know. But why is it too late? If you're already using him, he's likely the best recipient of a Second Seal. You're not going to get him to level 10 and then use it someone who doesn't even need it that much.

It's not like I'm trying to get him above anyone who's around at that time, anyway, just the people who come at the end of the game and possibly Virion.

What, because I turtled a bit in Lunatic? To survive? Cry more. I blow through Hard mode.

Half the Generals/Great Knights in the game are using Axes and there are enough Armorslayers to put on 2 Sword units when Generals really start popping up and Noble Rapiers will pick up the slack from Rapiers later on if it really becomes a problem. Avatar, Miriel, and (Levin Sword!)Anna are already ranked well, and since Tharja is in argument here that's a good amount of Mag we're reasonably packing.

I don't know why this is so focused on armors (although I guess tier arguments have a tendency to focus on small stuff), it's not hard to find D rank Axe users and there are good units for Mag, too, plus married partners paired up basically make short work of anything in Hard mode. This is one type of enemy in the game that isn't significantly more common than the rest and should not be Cherche's saving grace.

I wonder when we'll start the Lunatic list.

Being harder to get going = worse to me. So how is Donnel better than Ricken?

Idk about you, but Rapier/Noble Rapier users tend to 3HKO General for me even with pair up bonuses. Hammers are much more effective at it and Cherche has the durability to take on a few in an EP. Due to her ok-ish EP (aside from bows but why would you put a flier vs them?) she can get EXP pretty quickly. She can hammer the Ch14 boss at base and gets Deliverer pretty soon. Her good durability vs non-bow and magic enemies is pretty awesome. I brought up Naga's Tear for the same reason you're arguing Second Seal on Donnel. If you're using her,

WYNAUT

As for the magic users thing, I consider Miriel to be extremely overrated atm in this tier list. :/ My personal experience might have to do a lot with that though.

[Florete]

Being harder to get going = worse to me. So how is Donnel better than Ricken?

Because a 10/1 Donnel is good to go but Ricken isn't as good even at 20/1.

Due to her ok-ish EP (aside from bows but why would you put a flier vs them?)

Because they, and Wind Magic guys, are freaking everywhere.

Her good durability vs non-bow and magic enemies is pretty awesome.

Wut.

2 base Res, a currently listed 15 growth, and I believe 3 from promotion.

Wut.

I brought up Naga's Tear for the same reason you're arguing Second Seal on Donnel.

Except there is one Naga's Tear and multiple Second Seals before they can be bought. Somehow I think Naga's Tear is going to be harder to justify.

[Niddo]

Just popping in with a suggestion:

Once you get to the child characters, wouldn't a fair way to rate them be based solely on what their attached parent gives them? I don't think a list is ever going to be able to agree on what a child's "average" stats are considering all of the possibilities with the fathers... so just ignore the fathers completely with a note above the list saying that the fathers can drastically change how good or bad a child character is, and that their placement in the tier list is a very rough estimation and that you should pay more attention to the tier letter they are in rather than the actual placement within that tier. Could even just place them in {}s at the end of each section of the tiers in alphabetical order to avoid the more nitpicky arguments completely.

With the fathers being ignored, you're taking out a whole whack of variables and making it more manageable. I believe we already have what their base stats are without the parents stats being added in, we already have half of their modified caps and growth rates based on their mother, a good number of their available classes, and they will always have the two skills for their starting class. After that, the only major things you would need to look at are when you can you reasonably do their chapters, and when does their mother join.

With the mother's joining time compared to when you can realistically beat the child's joining chapter, you can figure out roughly what skills have a realistic chance of being passed on. Sully and Lissa for example are going to have a healthy choice of options for their children, and their children will be among the first to be recruited. Olivia is probably not going to have as much to pass on due to her own joining time, though more than you may think at first due to the difficulty of Inigo's chapter.

It doesn't remove all of the headache, but I think it makes it manageable. At a minimum, I think you could safely stick Morgan into S tier below their parent. Thanks to Veteran, they're always going to have good starting stats from their parent, be able to catch up to the rest of the army insanely fast with their own Veteran. They will also always have that massive list of classes and skills they can access, and have a fairly easy recruitment chapter. They've basically Avatar with higher caps and the ability to have one skill from the opposite gender, at the cost of a later starting time.

[PKL]

Because a 10/1 Donnel is good to go but Ricken isn't as good even at 20/1.

Because they, and Wind Magic guys, are freaking everywhere.

Wut.

2 base Res, a currently listed 15 growth, and I believe 3 from promotion.

Wut.

Except there is one Naga's Tear and multiple Second Seals before they can be bought. Somehow I think Naga's Tear is going to be harder to justify.

I've been able to use Ricken just fine. He's severely underrated atm imo.

You can still avoid them just fine or play around them. It's your fault if you can't play around it, not the fliers.

I was saying non-bow and magic users. Lrn2read. I didnt say she was good vs magic users.

First second seal has priority on Avatar/Panne. The second one you get is a bit later than Morgan's Paralogue isn't it? Considering Morgan's Paralogue is easy enough to do right away. Anyways, Naga's Tear isn't completely neccesary for Cherche to function, i just mentioned it because it helps. Besides, if someone is reclassing by the time second seals become buyable, they are in trouble

Edited March 18, 2013 by CordeliaxFrederick

[Florete]

You can still avoid them just fine or play around them. It's your fault if you can't play around it, not the fliers.

I don't like having to cater my entire play style around keeping my fliers out of harm's way when Bow and Magic using enemies often make up a third or more of the enemies in a map. This is a problem that you cannot simply shoo away by saying the player should be more competent.

I was saying non-bow and magic users. Lrn2read. I didnt say she was good vs magic users.

I read it as "Her good durability vs non-bow enemies as well as magic enemies is pretty awesome." Not so hard to see it like that. Simple misunderstanding.

First second seal has priority on Avatar/Panne. The second one you get is a bit later than Morgan's Paralogue isn't it? Considering Morgan's Paralogue is easy enough to do right away. Anyways, Naga's Tear isn't completely neccesary for Cherche to function, i just mentioned it because it helps. Besides, if someone is reclassing by the time second seals become buyable, they are in trouble

I know there's one from Renown that isn't being considered here, but I've just completed Ch 15 and I have 4 after having already used one on Avatar, so it can't take that long to get another. I also didn't buy any from merchant shops because I didn't plan to re-class anyone except Avatar. Anyway, if Donnel is in play, the first Second Seal will go to him. It's a mark against him, sure, but it's the smartest thing to do in the situation and he's at the bottom of the list for a reason. Avatar and Panne will be alright waiting a bit, and hell, I wouldn't even put Avatar as a top candidate because I'd rather go straight for Rally Spectrum.

I only mentioned Second Seals being buyable because they are effectively an infinite resource that do not come that late. Seriously, if someone is re-classing when they become buyable, all it means is they've been leveling up in a different class that much more. Not a big deal.

[Legault!]

Okay. From the OP regarding how this tier list deals with efficiency concerns:

"We are moving at a brisk pace, but this isn't an absolute minimum LTC tier list. "

This clearly needs some revision, since, for some reason, Awakening's Nosferatanks aren't all huddled at the tip top of the list. Nosferatanking is bar-none the most effective way to complete the game: on Lunatic, much less Hard, throw Nosferatank into battle -> win works in 95% of cases (100% for MU!Sorcerer). As far as pace goes, the Nosferatank route is certainly "brisk" enough: the game can be completed in under an hour without the need for any planning or brain power using this approach.

On an LTC list, Dark Mages and Sorcerers would obviously have less utility than they do in a "general efficiency" list like this one. But this isn't an LTC list. Soloing entire armies with a competent Nosferatank is both brisk and without question the easiest way to play (break) Awakening, so I guess I'm just wondering why we're wasting time arguing Cherche vs. Tharja when Tharja can solo the game.

[Interceptor]

I don't like having to cater my entire play style around keeping my fliers out of harm's way when Bow and Magic using enemies often make up a third or more of the enemies in a map. This is a problem that you cannot simply shoo away by saying the player should be more competent.

This isn't even about "playstyle", it's about strategic depth. If you have to carefully craft Cherche's placement so that she doesn't get splattered across the landscape like an over-ripe melon, this has more impact than just wasting your time. It means you can't proceed as quickly, or as far, or you have to divert other units to kill archers/mages that are in the way. Obviously a unit that can just be thrown in front of unlimited enemies and kill them all, gives you more options, and thus is better for the purposes of this tier list.

I guess I'm just wondering why we're wasting time arguing Cherche vs. Tharja when Tharja can solo the game.

This not simply an ordered list of which unit is better than another. It's necessary to take into account what takes to get the performance that you're measuring, i.e. resources and training have an opportunity cost (most of the time).

[grandjackal]

I agree with Interceptor's sentiments on Nowi. Makes great use of Seraph Robes.

I know there's one from Renown that isn't being considered here, but I've just completed Ch 15 and I have 4 after having already used one on Avatar, so it can't take that long to get another. I also didn't buy any from merchant shops because I didn't plan to re-class anyone except Avatar. Anyway, if Donnel is in play, the first Second Seal will go to him. It's a mark against him, sure, but it's the smartest thing to do in the situation and he's at the bottom of the list for a reason. Avatar and Panne will be alright waiting a bit, and hell, I wouldn't even put Avatar as a top candidate because I'd rather go straight for Rally Spectrum.

I only mentioned Second Seals being buyable because they are effectively an infinite resource that do not come that late. Seriously, if someone is re-classing when they become buyable, all it means is they've been leveling up in a different class that much more. Not a big deal.

While I'd go straight for Rally Spectrum myself, I'd say the smartest thing to do with the first second seal is reclass Panne to wyvern rider, while the second smartest thing would be to reclass Gregor to a Barbarian. The issue with Donnel is that about 100% of the time the smart thing to do does not involve Donnel.

The issue is more on how one can get him to level 10 quickly, because he's that much a pain in the ass to bother with.

[Legault!]

This not simply an ordered list of which unit is better than another. It's necessary to take into account what takes to get the performance that you're measuring, i.e. resources and training have an opportunity cost (most of the time).

I am aware.

Giving all available experience to MU!Sorcerer is the most efficient way to play without question.

Giving all experience to Tharja / MU!(not Sorcerer) is the second most efficient way to play.

Building up a team of decent Nosferatanks like Miriel, Henry, and Libra is the third most efficient way to play.

Cherche, since we're focusing on her at the moment, is a perfectly good unit who still needs to be careful about effective weapons and can't rout maps on her own. Rout is one of the only two map objectives in Awakening. Nosferatanking destroys both rout and kill leader. I'm not understanding the problem.

[Bryan]

While I'd go straight for Rally Spectrum myself, I'd say the smartest thing to do with the first second seal is reclass Panne to wyvern rider, while the second smartest thing would be to reclass Gregor to a Barbarian. The issue with Donnel is that about 100% of the time the smart thing to do does not involve Donnel.

The issue is more on how one can get him to level 10 quickly, because he's that much a pain in the ass to bother with.

Donnel is underrated. He gains back the investment you put into him extremely quickly. He has a rocky start, but be comes before chapter 4 when the enemies still suck. Other characters have a rocky start too. I don't see why it's a big deal to allow one skirmish for him, the payoff is huge compared to the investment. Nofs. Tankers? Please. Donny!sumia for mounted domination on every map. I'm not arguing a or even b tier here, but he's certainly not f. Not to mention, he's one of the best fathers for a female child because of aptitude, peg knight for galeforce and merc for armsthrift.

He's underrated. Stop the est hate. His growths are higher than almost every other ests and he comes during early game

[grandjackal]

The problem being that instead of nostanking you can just be durable and not be killable in the first place? That's not exactly a tall order unless you're a flier.

Honestly, can we stop with nostank hyping? Starting to sound like me a year ago on FE6.

[Interceptor]

I am aware.

Then why waste keystrokes talking about One Ring™ strategies, when the point of a tier list is to have a discussion about the whole pie? As lame as Cherche is (and Tharja is almost certainly better), she does do things that don't require anything in the way of resources, which is something that we measure here.

[Shadow Mir]

Okay. From the OP regarding how this tier list deals with efficiency concerns:

"We are moving at a brisk pace, but this isn't an absolute minimum LTC tier list. "

This clearly needs some revision, since, for some reason, Awakening's Nosferatanks aren't all huddled at the tip top of the list. Nosferatanking is bar-none the most effective way to complete the game: on Lunatic, much less Hard, throw Nosferatank into battle -> win works in 95% of cases (100% for MU!Sorcerer). As far as pace goes, the Nosferatank route is certainly "brisk" enough: the game can be completed in under an hour without the need for any planning or brain power using this approach.

On an LTC list, Dark Mages and Sorcerers would obviously have less utility than they do in a "general efficiency" list like this one. But this isn't an LTC list. Soloing entire armies with a competent Nosferatank is both brisk and without question the easiest way to play (break) Awakening, so I guess I'm just wondering why we're wasting time arguing Cherche vs. Tharja when Tharja can solo the game.

Uhhh, maybe it's because most dark mages have issues? (Henry's sloooow, Tharja can't hit the broad side of a barn, Miriel takes hits poorly... Who besides the Avatar is there, really?) Besides, a one-dimensional perspective like this one doesn't help us at all in determninng who's better than who.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Legault!]

The problem being that instead of nostanking you can just be durable and not be killable in the first place? That's not exactly a tall order unless you're a flier.

"Not killable" is something of a tall order for most units -- you can't just sit down any old pair of comrades in the middle of Ch.23 and expect to come out unscathed. Nosferatu is unique in this regard. Enemies are too numerous and carry too many forged weapons on later maps. Nosferatu is anything but overrated.

Then why waste keystrokes talking about One Ring™ strategies, when the point of a tier list is to have a discussion about the whole pie? As lame as Cherche is (and Tharja is almost certainly better), she does do things that don't require anything in the way of resources, which is something that we measure here.

I am looking at the whole pie. Compare Tharja to any unit above her: she doesn't require extra resources to become a dark mage, has decent enough bases, comes with a Nosferatu tome, and gets access to infinite and cheap game-breaking weapons just five chapters later, at which point she solos the rest of the campaign.

Uhhh, maybe it's because most dark mages have issues? (Henry's sloooow, Tharja can't hit the broad side of a barn, Miriel takes hits poorly... Who besides the Avatar is there, really?)

Henry and Miriel are more nuanced discussions, so let's table those for a moment. Tharja comes equipped with Hex and Anathema right off the bat -- hit is rarely an issue, especially considering True Hit and ginormous Pair Up bonuses. Skill potions are dirt cheap if you're extra concerned. More importantly, hit isn't all that relevant: you can throw Tharja into entire armies and expect her to reliably survive. Less hit than someone like Lon'qu, sure; but because of her virtual invincibility, she'll be attacking and counter-attacking much more often.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Legault!

[Shadow Mir]

Henry and Miriel are more nuanced discussions, so let's table those for a moment. Tharja comes equipped with Hex and Anathema right off the bat -- hit is rarely an issue, especially considering True Hit and ginormous Pair Up bonuses. Skill potions are dirt cheap if you're extra concerned. More importantly, hit isn't all that relevant: you can throw Tharja into entire armies and expect her to reliably survive. Less hit than someone like Lon'qu, sure; but because of her virtual invincibility, she'll be attacking and counter-attacking much more often.

9 times out of 10, if the enemy's affected by Hex... Tharja's taking a counter. Also, I wouldn't like seeing my Nosferatanker get critblicked off the map.

[Legault!]

9 times out of 10, if the enemy's affected by Hex... Tharja's taking a counter. Also, I wouldn't like seeing my Nosferatanker get critblicked off the map.

A counter is just fine -- Nosferatu will heal that right up like it ain't no thing. Critical hits aren't a concern until late into the campaign, by which point Tharja has an S-Rank with someone and killer stats. For extra overkill, she gets Vengeance at 10/5.

[Ema Skye]

This clearly needs some revision, since, for some reason, Awakening's Nosferatanks aren't all huddled at the tip top of the list. Nosferatanking is bar-none the most effective way to complete the game: on Lunatic, much less Hard, throw Nosferatank into battle -> win works in 95% of cases (100% for MU!Sorcerer). As far as pace goes, the Nosferatank route is certainly "brisk" enough: the game can be completed in under an hour without the need for any planning or brain power using this approach.

Nope. Nosfertanking is way slower than Galeforce rush, Deliverer storm or even a one Rescue staff use per turn approach. Hard Mode isn't even that hard to the point where we need more defense. Sorceror Avatar is way inferior to Dark Knight, Dark Flier, Valkyrie or even Griffon Rider approach when it comes to playing effectively.

Not to mention that Henry wishes he was as good as his dialogue is, Tharja isn't anything close to great either and Libra has speed issues (though they aren't as noticeable as Henry's). I guess Miriel can perform well enough as a Sorceror, but she really wants to go Sage -> Valkyrie for Tomefaire and Mount.

Units have no trouble maintaining a good offense and defense with pair up. A Dark Knight or Great Knight Pair up helps virtually any unit in any rout map, and it's more efficient than going with 5 Sorcerors.

[Legault!]

Nope. Nosfertanking is way slower than Galeforce rush, Deliverer storm or even a one Rescue staff use per turn approach.

It's almost like this isn't an LTC list.

First-gen units who have access to Galeforce: Lissa, Sumia, Mariabelle, Cordelia, Olivia, Say'ri

Note that only two units here start off as PK -- the rest (excluding Say'ri) are going to have to level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Second Seal, level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Master Seal, and finally level up another 15 levels. That takes time and won't be happening best-case scenario until well into the campaign. Also note that these units, again excluding Say'ri, all have offense ranging from terrible to thoroughly mediocre.

Deliverer is decent for a handful of kill boss maps. It can shave off a handful of turns in maps like Ch.16, Ch.21, and Ch.22. But this isn't an LTC list and saving a couple of turns is much less efficient and much more risky than Nosferatank -> win.

Hard Mode isn't even that hard to the point where we need more defense. Sorceror Avatar is way inferior to Dark Knight, Dark Flier, Valkyrie or even Griffon Rider approach when it comes to playing effectively.

Again, this is operating under LTC assumptions, where a point or two of extra movement is somehow more valuable than invincibility.

[Shadow Mir]

Deliverer is decent for a handful of kill boss maps. It can shave off a handful of turns in maps like Ch.16, Ch.21, and Ch.22. But this isn't an LTC list and saving a couple of turns is much less efficient and much more risky than Nosferatank -> win.

Again, this is operating under LTC assumptions, where a point or two of extra movement is somehow more valuable than invincibility.

>implying Nosferatu makes you invincible when it only drains half the damage dealt as health

Bah ha ha! I wouldn't expect Tharja to be soloing maps anytime soon, that's for sure.

[Legault!]

>implying Nosferatu makes you invincible when it only drains half the damage dealt as health

Bah ha ha! I wouldn't expect Tharja to be soloing maps anytime soon, that's for sure.

Vengeance at 10/5. Awakening Hard enemies have consistently poor hit rates, which gives Tharja plenty of time to recover. Dual blocks. 12 base speed + 60% speed growth + Awakening Hard enemies being slow and easy to double.

This isn't idle theorycraft; it's something I've tested plenty of times before. It's not hard to try out, either -- I'd recommend spending the twenty minutes getting up to Ch.8 and use Tharja seriously.

[Shadow Mir]

Vengeance at 10/5. Awakening Hard enemies have consistently poor hit rates, which gives Tharja plenty of time to recover. Dual blocks. 12 base speed + 60% speed growth + Awakening Hard enemies being slow and easy to double.

This isn't idle theorycraft; it's something I've tested plenty of times before. It's not hard to try out, either -- I'd recommend spending the twenty minutes getting up to Ch.8 and use Tharja seriously.

It certainly sounds closer to theorycraft than anything else, if you ask me. Also, I wouldn't rely on dual blocks to keep me alive, since they're not reliable enough. Also, I have used her seriously in my playthrough, and I still think you're going overboard with your hyping. And Vengeance? Why is that relevant when I wouldn't want my health low enough that it actually has any effect, ideally? And since you're implying we promote her immediately, have fun with reduced exp gain.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Levant Fortner