Super C9++ - Game over, Town Wins!

[Prims]

why is you're vote on shin and not boron.

[Grace]

just woke up and I feel like shit, bear with me as i attempt to digest the thread

[Prims]

actually I feel like the BBM vote is beating a dead horse at this point. gonna ##Unvote and ##Vote: Strege cuz the SSG issue is pretty bad when you consider he specifically moved off Shinori due to the lack of responses, implying he was looking for them. but then he ignores SSG's response anyway to keep his vote down. ???

[Sunwoo]

Okay, my Internet is having these really annoying seizures and conking out unexpectedly. Apologies in advance if this affects by activity.

@Prims: Strider explained himself in a satisfactory enough manner for me. I wouldn't vote him for the time being, although I wish he would talk more. (I'm also not voting him at the moment, if you missed it.)

@BBM: I still don't see the logic. How does your stating your town-read being more relevant than my spam posts in RVS help your case? So your first post was ~relevant~ to the game and I was earlygame spamming for a bit. Does that mean I'm not allowed to find that post scummy if I get scum vibes from it because I was posting fluff in RVS?

As for the Shin thing, perhaps it is mostly coincidence and I could honestly buy that. But if I just took your word for it and backed off simply because you say so, when I already find you scummy for other reasons, I'm not much of a scum hunter, am I? I can take the likelihood of a coincidence into consideration, but I shouldn't just outright drop it unless I have reason to do so.

[Grace]

Strege, I'm still a bit suspicious of Prims, but at this point if I voted everyone who had a shit vote on me, I'd be voting like a third of the game.

intense meta point back to chilean: you did something like this with vote threatening and you were scum there so.

BBM posts: the more I read them the more I think their tone in reacting is scummy over frustrated townie.

re shin: eh he could go either way. i'm still not particularly convinced that he's either town or mafia so :/

---

okay my brain is literally failing to produce many coherent thoughts i'm sorry

i'm just gonna have to try again later and be not useful for the time being

I've read the thread, so if anyone has a question they can ask but I can't guarantee a well thought out answer

[Grace]

and before someone inevitably complains about me not changing my vote: I'm not in a good state of mind to be figuring that stuff out right now so you're just gonna have to deal with it

[BBM]

But Boron, you didn't say that my post gave you "vibes" earlier. You said that it was scummy because it was irrelevant. I'm trying to explain to you that a post being irrelevant isn't scummy in RVS.

Prims- I don't really know. Thinking it over. I thought Prims's response to Rapier was decent.

[Sunwoo]

But Boron, you didn't say that my post gave you "vibes" earlier. You said that it was scummy because it was irrelevant. I'm trying to explain to you that a post being irrelevant isn't scummy in RVS.

Argh, wording. By "irrelevant" I should've said something like "unnecessary" or "overreacting". Point being, I feel that you were too quick to point out your town read on Manix, who was being RVS-wagoned, and defend him from Paper's jokepost.

[BBM]

That should be Shin's response to Rapier, not Prims's response.

Manix, when you're in the mindset for it, why exactly is my reaction more scummy than frustrated townie?

Rereading Boron's response to me and her reactions, I actually feel slightly better about her. I think what Shin said about Rapier was pretty good too, actually, and his general tone I think has been more like when he's town, though he hasn't been scum in a while. So I'm actually waffling on both of them, blegh.

Also, reading Strege's posts, I'm actually going to ##Unvote, ##Vote: Strege

Looking at them, his best post IMO is actually his first about Shinori, since it's an actual attack. After that he defends me a bit and posts some kind of waffly stuff about Paperblade that doesn't actually amount to much. He attacks Shin a bit, but chooses to keep his vote on Shinori. In his next post, he votes SSG mostly as a prod/question than an actual scumread, instead of voting for Shin, who is an actual scumread. Also, earlier, he was content with keeping his vote on Shinori despite him not having responded, but he chose to change it less than 30 minutes later? Additionally, SSG had in fact explained her reads in a fairly lengthy post and hadn't given much indication that they had changed from them. And then as Prims pointed out, he kept it there even after SSG responded, instead of voting for Shin, whom he is still attacking.

[Strege]

WRT to the prims point that's not what I was doing at all. I literally said he was doing that one thing again when he wasn't even doing anything. Like literally he hadn't done anything when I posted to be frank. WHAT I DID STATE was that I was confused as to why Strege voted me over Prims when Prims said the same thing I said, like exact same thing basically, yet Strege seemed to COMPLETELY ignore Prims and just focus on voting me. The least he could have done was comment on how Prims did the same thing with his overall thoughts on the subject, but he didn't do that. If he thinks I'm scummy enough to lynch based off of that why did he ignore prims in the beginning?

TBF your one comment against me is still poor imo since you still completely ignored Prims who did the same thing. Why did you seem biased at that point in time in the game(I don't mean at the current time but back when we originally voted each other)? As I stated above your comment you stated against me could have easily have been said to Prims as well, yet you chose to ignore him completely, why did you chose to do that?

My thought was that you were making purposely ambiguous statements so that you could use them later as evidence that you were pressuring or thinking about someone when you really weren't. Prims was saying that her reads were empty, so her referencing them later wouldn't really work. It was never a big scumread and I definitely didn't want to lynch you based on it; it was on page two and I decided to go with the biggest scumread I had and see if I got an interesting result. If my phone didn't break down when I was out of the house I wouldn't have left my vote on you that long considering the other stuff going on in the thread.

Also, I didn't give a read on Prims in my first two posts because I couldn't get a grasp on her unusual posting style (and still can't, to some degree). Right now I'm leaning town on her because of activity but I'm not even confident in that.

More in a few minutes.

[BBM]

Prims is a guy btw.

[Strege]

I apologize for messing up pronouns. I think I did it earlier in the thread too and I meant to say something about it. The mistake is only based on profile pictures and, to a lesser extent, names. Let me know if it happens again.

Strege's SSG vote is starting to look like a park. SSG has responded to Strege since he made his post, but Strege ignores it and doesn't talk about SSG at all. Strege, why is SSG still the best vote from your PoV?

actually I feel like the BBM vote is beating a dead horse at this point. gonna ##Unvote and ##Vote: Strege cuz the SSG issue is pretty bad when you consider he specifically moved off Shinori due to the lack of responses, implying he was looking for them. but then he ignores SSG's response anyway to keep his vote down. ???

Also, reading Strege's posts, I'm actually going to ##Unvote, ##Vote: Strege

Looking at them, his best post IMO is actually his first about Shinori, since it's an actual attack. After that he defends me a bit and posts some kind of waffly stuff about Paperblade that doesn't actually amount to much. He attacks Shin a bit, but chooses to keep his vote on Shinori. In his next post, he votes SSG mostly as a prod/question than an actual scumread, instead of voting for Shin, who is an actual scumread. Also, earlier, he was content with keeping his vote on Shinori despite him not having responded, but he chose to change it less than 30 minutes later? Additionally, SSG had in fact explained her reads in a fairly lengthy post and hadn't given much indication that they had changed from them. And then as Prims pointed out, he kept it there even after SSG responded, instead of voting for Shin, whom he is still attacking.

SSG's response doesn't make me feel better about the main reason why I voted her, which is that all of her reads are really non-committal. She hasn't posted anything since so I don't have more to comment on, but I should have stated explicitly that I wanted more content from her and that that's a large part of the reason for me keeping my vote on her. I think she's scummy, but if I had to pick someone to lynch right now I'd probably lynch Shin because he seems more scummy and lynching someone based on a few posts is a bit of a crapshoot. I didn't vote for Shin before because he already had a bunch of pressure on him and it wouldn't accomplish much.

The difference between me taking my vote off of Shinori then and not taking my vote off of SSG now is that with Shinori I saw a potentially more productive place for my vote. At the moment, I'm not sure if there's a better spot for it -- Shin and BBM have plenty of pressure on them, Boron is looking better than he was for me and I can't think of something to dig into for a reaction, and any discussion between Shinori and I is going to be very unproductive until we get this miscommunication settled.

Regarding the 30 minute gap: I wanted to get my post down and quote scorri, and I wasn't sure who I wanted to switch my vote to yet so I saved it for a second post. It took 30 minutes because I'm very slow at composing posts (a problem BBM and I have discussed before out of game).

[Shin]

re shin: eh he could go either way. i'm still not particularly convinced that he's either town or mafia

Yaranaika.

Prims, my main reads were BBM and Strege. BBM for his blatant overdefensiveness, and Strege for the pursuit of Shinori, who hadn't really said much at the time. Strege has improved a lot since I made my initial vote, and BBM, well is being BBM. However, my eye's also now on Rapier, who is still yet to form an opinion of his own that isn't "Shin should stop saying that about my post."

Kay needs some caution, mostly because of her playstyle, and her posting frequency. She hasn't done anything particularly scummy yet, but it would be nice to know why she was keeping her vote on someone from RVS. I'm still disliking how wishy-washy Rapier is.

[BBM]

Kay has a reputation for very low to non-existent activity on weekends, so if you're looking for content from her before the phase is out, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Strege, why would you want to put your vote on me, even if there wasn't already a bunch of pressure on me? The last time you said anything about me, it was to say that my posts didn't seem out of character and weren't particularly scummy.

[Paperblade]

Strege's initial point on SSG was fine, but Prims might have a point about him voteparking (I didn't follow Strege's posts closely enough to see if this is true)

##Unvote I guess, I'm gonna do a reread later tonight (currently doing RP stuff + watching G-1 LAN finals)

[Strege]

Strege, why would you want to put your vote on me, even if there wasn't already a bunch of pressure on me? The last time you said anything about me, it was to say that my posts didn't seem out of character and weren't particularly scummy.

I only meant that your initial Manix defense didn't seem out of character, and I thought people were wasting a lot of time driving on that point. I did mention that I thought you were directing attention away from yourself and toward Prims, which is pretty far from saying you "weren't particularly scummy".

I've avoided just restating other people's observations on you since it doesn't accomplish much, and because although I find you kind of scummy you're not my biggest scumread by a fair margin. For the record, my other reasons for suspecting you are (in no particular order):

1) I asked you about Prims because I wanted to get a solid opinion and make it hard for you to switch for weak reasons later, and the answer you gave me gives you just about the most wiggle room possible, which seems a bit scummy.

2) As Boron stated, the delay between your argument against Shin and your vote against him is suspicious.

3) You echo my point against Shinori in post 97 and it feels like you slipped a few echoes of Shinori and Prims in your paragraph against me in an effort to bolster your though process without clear dependence on them.

4) [Meta] Your tone doesn't seem the same as in my previous games with you, where you did a lot more logic-policing (I think this is true even when you weren't getting wagoned or when you were in a more vehement argument).

None of these points are huge indictments, but together they give me a "kind of scummy" assessment of you.

[Rapier]

@Rapier: Am I the only person who needs a "stronger" scum read? Who are you even talking about anyway?

Sorry, I mistook you for Scorri.

Rapier reads my "Kay is usually inactive, we should be careful" as "We should judge Kay now.", responding with it's too early to tell. He then goes on to elaborate on how RVS works and BBM's decisions, repeating what's already been said.

Then it's a wonderful spiele about how I'm new and I should be expected to make mistakes, but in the end doesn't really form any kind of conclusion. The last part is pretty much parroting what has already been said. If anything I've made it sound more complicated than it really was.

Yeah, because I should just pull reasons from a wormhole instead of explaining them, since things like that have already been said. Wouldn't that have been worse?

Also, I replied Paper's "I don't think Shin would do something so stupid as scum" with "Doing something dumb is a nulltell, and Shin's a new player so he could do something dumb as well". This should be conclusive by itself.

Basically, I've repeated what's already been said about BBM's decisions and echoed toward the end. Yeah, my post is 100% echoing people and not thinking by myself or reasoning. Totally.

Rapier, please look up what a logical fallacy actually is, and then consider that even if you were right, town can use bad logic too (unintentionally).

That's exactly what I said, unless I somehow misrepped what you said terribly. :/

Rapier, do you think Shin is actually scummy? Boron, do you still think Rein is a good vote?

Nah, he just uses lazy reasoning that makes him misrep stuff, but other than that, I don't think he's scum, at least for now.

I'm not getting mad because people are voting me. I'm getting mad because everyone is citing the same reason that I've rebutted like five times already and absolutely nobody is telling me why stating an irrelevant townread in RVS is scummy

That's because objectioning to a 2 people "wagon" on Page 2 during RVS is a bad thing to do and seems like an overreaction or defense.

[...] I think she's scummy, but if I had to pick someone to lynch right now I'd probably lynch Shin because he seems more scummy and lynching someone based on a few posts is a bit of a crapshoot. I didn't vote for Shin before because he already had a bunch of pressure on him and it wouldn't accomplish much.

So, Shin was your main scumread and yet you focused solely on your minor scumreads, some of which you didn't even exploit that much (like Shinori)... No, I'm not liking your case here. I remember when I did it something similar on some Anonymous Mafia and other players thought I was scum for that... And they were right.

Unvote

##Vote: Strege

At least until I read an answer that's good enough for me.

Prims, my main reads were BBM and Strege. BBM for his blatant overdefensiveness, and Strege for the pursuit of Shinori, who hadn't really said much at the time. Strege has improved a lot since I made my initial vote, and BBM, well is being BBM. However, my eye's also now on Rapier, who is still yet to form an opinion of his own that isn't "Shin should stop saying that about my post."

Shin, is this seriously ALL YOU SAW ON MY POST?

[Strege]

So, Shin was your main scumread and yet you focused solely on your minor scumreads, some of which you didn't even exploit that much (like Shinori)... No, I'm not liking your case here. I remember when I did it something similar on some Anonymous Mafia and other players thought I was scum for that... And they were right.

Unvote

##Vote: Strege

At least until I read an answer that's good enough for me.

I'm not sure what timeframe you're talking about with your accusations exactly. I spoke about Shin and Shinori in post 119, which was my first post after I got back, and said I wanted more activity from both of them. Since Shinori was absent for a while I didn't have anything to push him on. If you mean my later activity, I kept an eye on Shin and asked a few questions but for the most part he and BBM were under enough pressure that me contributing to the pressure didn't seem significant, and I decided to focus my efforts elsewhere. In retrospect, considering the votes against me right now, I probably should have been more explicit with my other reads.

[Tables]

@Tables: I'd also like ISOs in the original post, though I can survive without them if it's too much trouble or the links start breaking as they can do.

That sounds reasonable. I'll put them into one of the top posts.

Vote count 1.4 (Updated to post 168)

Witch (3): Shinori, Super Serious Gal, Cap'n Flint

Strege (3): Witch, BBM, Rapier

Shin (2): Scorri, Manix

BBM (1): Sangyul

Kay (1): Liquid Snake

Scorri (1): Kay

Shinori (1): Strege

Liquid Snake (1): Serious Bananas

Rapier (1): Shin

Not voting (1): Paperblade

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline is May 27th, 2:14am GMT

Deadline is in around 22 hours

[Strege]

@Tables: My vote is actually on Super Serious Gal. Also, thanks for adding the ISOs!

[Tables]

Sorry, fixed.

Vote count 1.4x (Updated to post 170)

Witch (3): Shinori, Super Serious Gal, Cap'n Flint

Strege (3): Witch, BBM, Rapier

Shin (2): Scorri, Manix

BBM (1): Sangyul

Kay (1): Liquid Snake

Scorri (1): Kay

Liquid Snake (1): Serious Bananas

Rapier (1): Shin

Super Serious Gal (1): Strege

Not voting (1): Paperblade

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline is May 27th, 2:14am GMT

[Prims]

Haven't read up, but we're at <24 hours. I recommend consolidating.

[charlie_]

Also, I'm looking forward Manix's most recent reads from Shin. It's been some time since he voted him for "pressure voting".

Boron also needs a stronger read. Laziness does not a scum make.

Not really fond of this thing, since inactive poking is kind of easy. Especially when you dedicate your entire post to it, aside from making a sweeping statement about Boron's vote being lazy.

My apologies, Boron. Would it be possible to get the ISO's in the first post? It appears I'm having trouble counting posts otherwise :P.

Click the number of replies and the total number of posts will show up.

Rereading Boron's response to me and her reactions, I actually feel slightly better about her. I think what Shin said about Rapier was pretty good too, actually, and his general tone I think has been more like when he's town, though he hasn't been scum in a while. So I'm actually waffling on both of them, blegh.

Not really a valid point :/

Still not sold on scum!bbm though.

Also, I didn't give a read on Prims in my first two posts because I couldn't get a grasp on her unusual posting style (and still can't, to some degree). Right now I'm leaning town on her because of activity but I'm not even confident in that.

Activity isn't really a towntell, and the fact you're not even sure about it is pinging me.

Not too happy with Strege's content on a whole. Vote sticks on Rein for now but I'd be happy to switch if needs be.

[Sunwoo]

I just got hit with a crapload of work for my thesis. I might be inactive for most of the morning, but will be online all day in the afternoon.

Uh, looking at the current votals looks like Prims and Strege are the leading wagons. I'd rather not lynch Prims right now, and I'll need to reread Strege's content before I can decide whether I'd feel comfortable lynching him or not over Prims.

[Shinori]

I just got hit with a crapload of work for my thesis. I might be inactive for most of the morning, but will be online all day in the afternoon.

Uh, looking at the current votals looks like Prims and Strege are the leading wagons. I'd rather not lynch Prims right now, and I'll need to reread Strege's content before I can decide whether I'd feel comfortable lynching him or not over Prims.

Why?