SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[PuffPuff]

Just tried out the character customization for the first time and that it is rather nice that Palutena already has all of her custom made moves. Well...she is divine! ^_^

Already customized my favorite characters which are...

-Link(Dark Link)

-Palutena(Finished)

-Mario

-Zero Suit Samus

-Princess Peach

Just finding out that everyone elses customs will have to be unlocked. Time to work on Ikeeeeeeeee and unlocking their other custom moves which will take a long time. :D Have all month before the Wii-U's version comes out! But...right now...development and creation time for us and Nintendo!

Edited October 19, 2014 by PuffPuff

[Nova]

I feel like Zelda got buffed, actually. She has faster A-attacks, and a far more powerful Farore's Wind, as well as a pretty powerful custom Dins

She got both buffs and nerfs. I personally feel that the balance is on the side of the nerfs.

It feels like her smashattacks got worse, which is pretty bad, considering that they were one of her bigger strengths. And Dins fire is shit now (Don't know about the customs though, I'm missing one of them). I can't remember when I last hit someone with that.

She's still fun to play as, but I really have to adjust my playstyle. I find myself killing the opponents with Farores wind all the time instead of smashes. I love how her recovery move became a reliable killing method. I already liked to use the move in Brawl to surprise my enemies and I trained to perfectly aim it.

What's different though is that Zelda was even lower in the Brawl Tier List. She did get a new move, but it's worthless.

The worst idea ever. They should have given her something, that let's her control the area below her, so that she's not as helpless when she's in the air. >.>

But I still think that the phantom is a buff. I never use it and it sucks pretty hard. But it at least doesn't leave her wide open for punishment when you accidently use it.

If I could get Smash4-Zelda with her smashattacks and side-B from Brawl, a Dins fire that doesn't leave her helpless when used in the air, and a new down-B, then I'd be really happy.

Edit, on the topic of mains: I support the opinion that your mains choose you. If I told my past self all the characters I'm using now, he wouldn't believe me.

There was a time in Brawl where I only used Kirby. Now I've got eleven characters I like to play as plus two that were cut in Smash 4.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Nova

[Kiseki]

he got less powerful, his fair isn't amazing anymore, quick draw utility is gone, and probably less range like nearly everybody else. he may have slightly more super armor frames on aether but that might just be my imagination, and it still wouldn't come close to making up for what was lost anyway.

I never actually used Quick Draw outside of recovering, even in Brawl. There wasn't much offensive utility I could find with it, so it didn't really matter to me that much. Sure he doesn't have godly launching capabilities like in Brawl, but he has enough damaging capabilities to make up for it (at least for me it does).

[Jotari]

Why on Earth does Farore's Wind now send you sliding along the ground if you use in the air? It must be the most infuriating way of killing yourself that I've encountered yet.

[Robinigo]

With 51 playable characters, I find it odd how many people are already claiming that they have no characters that they enjoy playing as. I find that the only way to find more characters is to sit down one day and just play a handful of characters online for a little while until at least one of them seems viable to some extent. I never thought I'd enjoy playing Ness, Game and Watch, or Wii Fit Trainer, but they're some of the most fun I've ever had in a Smash game. It just takes leaving your established comfort zone and being willing to invest more than half an hour into a character and decide they're not worthwhile.

Except Little Mac, don't play him, I'm sick of Little Mac being two out of three people's mains that I play online, there's no joy or excitement or anything in playing against a Little Mac, even if I win consistently, getting to that win is a hassle

Regardless, I find that characters that I never thought I'd play were the ones that clicked with me. Robin and Lucina were my original mains due to the sheer amount of hype I poured into them, but I tried other characters and enjoyed them even more. The only character I like that doesn't surprise me is Wario due to personal bias back in Brawl, but otherwise, my original roster is nothing like what my roster would be now.

Alright, sub-posting aside, I get a lot of lag in local play, enough to throw everyone in the match off. I know the Wii U version won't have that at all, but it's the only complaint I can come up with about the game other than the circle pad giving everyone I know a nasty case of BNF

I haven't reached that level of competitive awareness yet that everyone else seems to be on hahaha

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

Melee!Falco and I were buddies. Melee!Doc was also my best friend, so i tried him in this game. He and i didnt get along too well and i was sad. Changing game physics and mechanics does that. I could never Fox cuz he was just always too damn fast.

are we the same person

Personally, I've been playing 5-10 matches with every character and seeing how they feel. I've also been facing my brother with every character to see who does well

That's actually how I got two of my mains, Yoshi (again Florina) and Sheik

[Anacybele]

Wow, misinterpretation of the year. You wanted to know how it could be seen as aggressive, she offered to tell you, as an unbiased third party, how she saw it. She just didn't want to get into an argument over it.

Where did I say I wanted to know? All I said was that I don't see it. Not that I wish to know why (because frankly, whatever is said will be something I disagree with). Also, she said I shouldn't argue, not that we both shouldn't. So I interpreted at as her tearing apart my posts while I had to sit there and behave like a good girl and not say I disagree even when I do. I'm sorry if that's not how she meant to say it. But it came off to me that way.

Just like my post earlier came off as "aggressive" to you and Florina. Everybody misinterprets things, whether it's due to poor wording or something else. Like you said yourself, it's a mistake. And I'm apologizing for it.

[Gaia]

Except Little Mac, don't play him, I'm sick of Little Mac being two out of three people's mains that I play online, there's no joy or excitement or anything in playing against a Little Mac, even if I win consistently, getting to that win is a hassle

Little salty, much? This is like all the people screaming "LITTLE MAC IS OP HE RUINS THE GAME," just because they don't know how to fight him. Little Mac is incredibly easy to gimp (unless you're playing an actually good player, which should be fun regardless of what character they play), and you can easily juggle him. You can also easily gimp the shit out of him by manipulating his counter. Most Little Macs are incredibly easy to predict most of the time, as well. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing people complain about Mac.

[Robinigo]

Little salty, much? This is like all the people screaming "LITTLE MAC IS OP HE RUINS THE GAME," just because they don't know how to fight him. Little Mac is incredibly easy to gimp (unless you're playing an actually good player, which should be fun regardless of what character they play), and you can easily juggle him. You can also easily gimp the shit out of him by manipulating his counter. Most Little Macs are incredibly easy to predict most of the time, as well. I'm getting sick and tired of seeing people complain about Mac.

With all due respect, I do know how to beat Little Mac and I agree that it's easy once you understand how to do it, it just isn't fun, regardless of how skilled the player is. And when over half of the characters I play against are Little Mac, you can't help but get sick of him Edited October 19, 2014 by Spiky

[Gaia]

It might just be me, but I can't stand how easily usable his dash is and how difficult it is to punish given how little lag there is on it

Shield-Grab him.

But yeah, I overreacted a little bit. Kinda saw that and just assumed because I've been seeing that a lot elsewhere.

[Robinigo]

It's fine, I've got to apologize for dropping the salt on any Little Mac mains, it wasn't really called for. I'll give shield-grabbing a shot

[Raven]

Where did I say I wanted to know? All I said was that I don't see it. Not that I wish to know why (because frankly, whatever is said will be something I disagree with). Also, she said I shouldn't argue, not that we both shouldn't. So I interpreted at as her tearing apart my posts while I had to sit there and behave like a good girl and not say I disagree even when I do. I'm sorry if that's not how she meant to say it. But it came off to me that way.

Just like my post earlier came off as "aggressive" to you and Florina. Everybody misinterprets things, whether it's due to poor wording or something else. Like you said yourself, it's a mistake. And I'm apologizing for it.

The problem I'm seeing is that you misinterpret a lot of things quite often, and people misinterpret things you say quite often. This very often leads to petty confrontations.

[Ownagepuffs]

Enough arguing, it's time for learning! I feel like this needs to he shared more publicly since not many people frequent the smash boards (kind of like how not many new FE fans know of this site).

Shaya of Smash Boards did some testing on Marth vs Lucina. Quoting now. Once again, this is not my discovery (disclaimers are important, yo).

I feel bad for this. But it keeps happening and people aren't bothering to research/search for five and a half frikken seconds to get the answer said to them plain as day. I think I need to end up making a "The Unfortunate Truth of Lucina: Please Stop Asking" thread, but it would ultimately be very patronising to her players.

Marth is almost universally a better character in every scenario. I would not feel confident in saying he is superior in 100% of cases, I already know this is not true, but 90%+? Very likely. Is there reason to use Lucina in tournament over Marth? The answer is unfortunately no. Is she viable though? Of course she is, she has a winning character design and while her deficiencies separate them, their differences don't change how match ups are played at all and anything Marth can win, Lucina can in practise do so too.

The most crippling and objective difference is how their swords work, but it's a lot more drastic than just "oh tippers do more damage and kill earlier".

This is not necessarily obvious to people, but there's a property in this game called Hit Lag, that applies whenever an attack hits somebody or something, the length of hit lag is based on the % Damage of the attack and a scaling modifier. Marth's tipper attacks produce extra hit lag, just like Captain Falcon's knee, to exemplify hitting with their sweetspots, their modifier is above 1 (or above 100%). On the contrary, Marth's untippered attacks produce less hit lag, their modifier is below 1. In Brawl this was 130% on Tippers and 70% on non-tippers IIRC.

Now onto how hitting shields work. When an attack hits a shield, the hit lag the person in shield experiences does not consider the modifier, whilst the initiator still does. This means that Marth's untippered hits on shield are safer than they normally would be by several frames, whilst his tipper hits are less safe.

Lucina does not have this effect anywhere on her sword (I've tested tilts/jabs conclusively, I'd assume it's standard); her attacks have no hit lag modifiers whatsoever.

This means that Marth spacing poorly is safer on shield than Lucina spacing well on every single attack. The frame disadvantage received by tippers by Marth through hitlag are compensated by the still higher damage scaling with shield stun and shield knockback and ultimately still end up giving Marth higher frame advantages on shield with tippers than Lucina does as well.

So what does Lucina get for poorly spacing that Marth doesn't? 1% extra damage on average per hit and killing 10% or so earlier on Smash attacks. A rough estimate would be that Lucina's sword is 12.5% more potent on damage and knockback, while Marth's tippers are up to 25% more damage and knockback or BETTER, the kill differences between them when it comes to tipper forward smash is pretty disgusting.

While I cannot be [near] objective on the next point, I say it with confidence.

Combo ability difference is a load of crap. I've been playing Marth for close to a decade, I don't think about combos, I think about hit confirms into more hit confirms and acting as fast as possible out of my actions. Marth and Lucina are not combo heavy characters in this game, and this will not change. I hit people with forward air and through the hitconfirm know exactly where they're going to travel towards. When I hit people with tippers on Marth in combo strings it gives me even more breathing space/time to be in a position to reduce enemy options/guarantee successive hits, while weaker attacks can be punished on hit; this applies to Lucina as well. I really cannot begin to even understand any Smasher having a mindset on Marth or Lucina that involves knowing what percent things combo into each other perfectly, because that's just not how Smash Bros works at all, there are so many variables that exist already (enemy percent, move staling, rage, DI/Vectoring, Smash DI/Shuffling; good players have to react to these things) that something as minor as 10% more or less knockback requires no adjustments. If you think it does, you're not comfortable with Marth or Lucina in the first place at the skill required to succeed at high level.

So,

Is there any scenario Lucina is safer on shield than Marth? Literally never. I'm not sure about what people mean by being able to play more aggressively on Lucina, but I posit you this every time you hit a shield as Lucina and get punished, the same may not have happened on Marth.

Is there any scenario Lucina is safer on hit than Marth? Yes; but the window this matters is very small (mostly eradicated by the time any enemy is above 30%). Some moves very poorly spaced on hit may also be punishable for Marth in scenarios it wouldn't be for Lucina. Marth's jab is a low knockback move unless tippered, and for a wide array of percent isn't safe on hit (it eventually becomes something you can combo out of and is likely to trip), this is not as pronounced on Lucina, who can use her jab more liberally.

Is comboing with Lucina easier/more consistent? I would say no. Another technical point is that hitstun scales with knockback, and hence Marth's tippered attacks are producing more hit stun and hence more comboability than Lucina would, but as I mentioned in that big paragraph, it really doesn't and shouldn't matter.

That's kind of a big deal. Carry on.

[Ninian]

Ganondorf is a frightening ginger.

[Ownagepuffs]

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf has the most lovely hair. Wish it was an alt.

[Ninian]

He's like Caineghis.

[N7隊長ジョン]

He's like Caineghis.

#GanonIsCanon

[eclipse]

Giant wall of Marth

From this breakdown, it sounds like Lucina is slightly better at smashing and jabbing, while Marth is better at not getting punished. Huh, the more I read about their difference, the more I understand why I don't care for Lucina while I like playing Marth.

Would love to see if any sort of breakdown exists between Pit and Dark Pit, too~!

[Florete]

Where did I say I wanted to know? All I said was that I don't see it. Not that I wish to know why (because frankly, whatever is said will be something I disagree with). Also, she said I shouldn't argue, not that we both shouldn't. So I interpreted at as her tearing apart my posts while I had to sit there and behave like a good girl and not say I disagree even when I do. I'm sorry if that's not how she meant to say it. But it came off to me that way.

Just like my post earlier came off as "aggressive" to you and Florina. Everybody misinterprets things, whether it's due to poor wording or something else. Like you said yourself, it's a mistake. And I'm apologizing for it.

Just cut out the "wanted it" part and my post still applies in full. Seriously, did you read that part? (there's so much more I can pick apart in this post but ugh, not worth bothering)

You've really got to learn to stop taking half of what people say as an attack on you.

And how could your post not have been taken aggressively when you typed IN ALL CAPS? That gives the impression of shouting, in case you didn't know.

[Anacybele]

And how could your post not have been taken aggressively when you typed IN ALL CAPS? That gives the impression of shouting, in case you didn't know.

If I was shouting, I would've used an exclamation point in my line as well. But I didn't. I used caps to imply emphasis. Not anger.

[Florete]

If I was shouting, I would've used an exclamation point in my line as well. But I didn't. I used caps to imply emphasis. Not anger.

Don't use caps for emphasis. They give the impression of shouting, exclamation point or no. Use bold or italics.

[Sunwoo]

Ana, if I may, I feel that sometimes the reason why misinterpretations of your posts or misinterpretations made by you tend to lead to more drawn out arguments is because you tend to be a lot more stubborn about defending yourself. And I'm not saying you shouldn't defend yourself, but you tend to do it too much. When I say or do something that offended someone else on the forums I will say, "It certainly wasn't my intention to offend you, but I'm sorry that I did," as soon as I'm told that I made a mistake. Even if what I meant was completely innocent, if I offended someone I'll apologize for it. I feel that in many of these cases things would not have come to such fire if you simply said, "I wasn't trying to offend anyone, but sorry if I did" without going to such lengths to defend what you actually meant.

As for what eclipse was saying (and I certainly don't mean to put words in her mouth or speak for her, smack me if I'm out of line eclipse), I don't think she meant that you had to just sit there like a good girl while she criticized your posts. I've seen her do a very similar thing in mafia, where she went through someone's posts (may have been mine) and gave her thoughts on whether she felt that there was any passive-aggressiveness or ill-will in them.

As someone whom I haven't seen interact much with you, eclipse would be someone one who's NOT viewing your posts with negative bias (as opposed to someone whom you butt heads with on a daily basis), and by "don't argue" I believe she meant that this is how it comes off TO HER and even if you disagree with it, it still doesn't change the fact that without your input on what it's supposed to mean this is how it comes off to her when she just reads it.

[Anacybele]

Don't use caps for emphasis. They give the impression of shouting, exclamation point or no. Use bold or italics.

Alright, I'm fine with doing that.

[Randoman]

I heard people talking about defeating Classic mode on 9.0, and was suprised that most people load their character with attacking and defensive equipment. I was able to complete it with a default Luigi 9 days ago.

As for the Marth vs. Lucina post Ownage posted... (hmm... how can I say this without being totally disrespectful and spiteful to the "Lucina will be leagues better than Marth" and "Lucina is old Marth and new Marth is garbage" proclaimers who preached it as fact before the game was even out) let's just say I'm extremely glad that the people who heavily believed Lucina would be leagues better were wrong.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Randoman

[eclipse]

*smacks Boron*

I believe that was Avatar Mafia, and I hope I never have to do that in a game again!

The purpose of my offer was to dissect the arguments from an outside viewpoint. We all have our bias, especially since we know our own intentions. However, someone who doesn't know those intentions may take something completely differently. As for the "don't argue" part, it was because I wasn't interested in an argument which would devolve into "but that's what I meant and you're wrong for seeing it in another light!" The answer you gave to that offer told me more than enough about how you view such things.