Bunselpower Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Alright, I'm just gonna ask this question and hopefully it will clarify. I haven't asked it for a while now for fear of starting this back up again, but I'd really like a clear answer that doesn't turn into a debate. Yes, it's a Gaius question, you may cease reading and tape over the screen now if you want. What does Gaius give Noire that makes her that much better than other iterations of Noire, especially Donnel? I know czar has already answered why Kjelle is better many times, so this question isn't really directed at him, but I'd really like to know why many consider Gaius!Noire to be the pairing of choice. I really want to hear why you Gaius!Noire fans love her so much. I would be remiss not to understand all positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizziah Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Alright, I'm just gonna ask this question and hopefully it will clarify. I haven't asked it for a while now for fear of starting this back up again, but I'd really like a clear answer that doesn't turn into a debate. Yes, it's a Gaius question, you may cease reading and tape over the screen now if you want. What does Gaius give Noire that makes her that much better than other iterations of Noire, especially Donnel? I know czar has already answered why Kjelle is better many times, so this question isn't really directed at him, but I'd really like to know why many consider Gaius!Noire to be the pairing of choice. I really want to hear why you Gaius!Noire fans love her so much. I would be remiss not to understand all positions. Galeforce, vantage, speed. Those last two things are something Donny lacks. Pretty easy to understand really, though I don't normally run the set myself, I know why it's the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilentChloey Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yeah you're already running two procs on each of those units, you shouldn't have trouble killing anything Lethality can help with. Morgan might want to grab a +Mov skill instead. Hmm I keep forgetting what a proc is :/ I guess that I might have to try to shake the skills up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It's just skills that have a percent of activating to boost an attack, ie. Aether, Luna, Sol, Ignis, Astra, Lethality, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilentChloey Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It's just skills that have a percent of activating to boost an attack, ie. Aether, Luna, Sol, Ignis, Astra, Lethality, etc. Oh! Hmm I will have to change up Lucina's skill set then I think. I am not sure what to have Olivia hand down I am going to bench her once I get Lucina and Inigo (as well as bench Inigo as well because I really don't need him). Are there any skills (other than Galeforce) that would be good for Olivia to hand down to Lucina? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) The only skill she needs from Olivia is Galeforce. If you want to pass something else, Swordfaire or Lancefaire would be pretty nice. The former if you want to use Falchion. Otherwise, she wants DS+ and Aether which is from her starting class, and Luna which is also from a Chrom class. Edited October 31, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilentChloey Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The only skill she needs from Olivia is Galeforce. If you want to pass something else, Swordfaire or Lancefaire would be pretty nice. The former if you want to use Falchion. Otherwise, she wants DS+ and Aether which is from her starting class, and Luna which is also from a Chrom class. Right, that makes some sense. Just make sure that Olivia hands down Galeforce and we're grouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Chrom x Olivia FeMu x Chrom!Inigo Gaius x Sully Gregor x Miriel Sumia x Henry Tharja x Lon'qu Cherche x Stahl Cordelia x Virion Lissa x Ricken Maribelle x Libra Nowi x Donnel Realized I forgot Panne. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunselpower Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Galeforce, vantage, speed. Those last two things are something Donny lacks. Pretty easy to understand really, though I don't normally run the set myself, I know why it's the best. I understand it in a general, three word sense. But Speed to what end? I want specific examples, because without them that answer means nothing. And yeah, GF is obvious, otherwise I wouldn't have made it a Donny Gaius comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizziah Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Specific examples of what? A case by case basis of enemy matchups? How Gauis!Noire compares to other Noires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunselpower Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Specific examples of what? A case by case basis of enemy matchups? How Gauis!Noire compares to other Noires? Sorry, I'm having a rough night communicating. I just meant what the speed actually accomplishes. Speed is great, but speed for speed's sake is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Are you seriously asking why speed is important, or do you mean if the speed difference between Gaius and Donny's Kjelle has tangible effects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunselpower Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Are you seriously asking why speed is important, or do you mean if the speed difference between Gaius and Donny's Kjelle has tangible effects? Of course I know why speed is important. The second thing is exactly what I'm asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Gaius!Kjelle hits the 75 speed threshold for doubling Anna in apotheosis. Sorry your post isn't very clear at all, I had to guess what you were asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vascela Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 You're right in the sense speed for the sake of speed is obsolete. That's why benchmarks are extremely obvious for Spd (with 75 being the highest relevant number, and no real difference between it and 76+). It also shows the equivalency of 69-74 (no real difference). Benchmarks don't just exist in Spd--it's just the easiest to visualize. The same goes for damage (which many people struggle to see) and hit rate (which is usually solved with a +hit skill, and the kids with hit in question usually take a +hit skill dad in the current serenes meta). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Sorry, I'm having a rough night communicating. I just meant what the speed actually accomplishes. Speed is great, but speed for speed's sake is not. I know you didn't address this to me, but since nobody else is answering... The Spd thresholds in Apo are 75, 69, 66 and 60- most everyone should aim for the top three at least. Gaius!Noire's main class options are Bow Knight, Sniper and Dark Knight. She hits 75 as a BK with a +3 support (EG Berserker), and 69 as a Sniper or DK with a +0 support (EG Sage or Warrior), all without All+2. Donnel!Noire can't make up the difference on any of those with All+2 due to being 3 points behind. Her main choice is as a Sniper with a Paladin or faster support and no All+2, which still gives her 69. She could also hit 69 as a BK with All+2 and a +0 support, but I haven't seen anyone do that. Aside from Spd, Gaius has Astra to offer Noire; something Kjelle gets regardless. If she's going as a Sniper Vengeance may be the better choice, but since she never uses All+2 she always has room for it. All in all, Noire benefits more from upgrading from Donnel to Gaius than Kjelle does, but Gaius!Kjelle is better than Gaius!Noire and Noire has more to gain from not taking a Galedad than Kjelle does. The same goes for damage (which many people struggle to see) Probably because different amounts of Atk having different effects on the total damage output in the front and back, as well as small-scale variances in damage caused by the Weapon Triangle, terrain and truncation from Dragonskin/PavGis. There are also more skills that have an effect on Atk to consider- damage calcs just aren't user friendly. 100% DS is the other notable threshold, but it only becomes feasible when everything is on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunselpower Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Of course I know why speed is important. The second thing is exactly what I'm asking. I'm clearly an idiot, I actually meant Noire, not Kjelle. Doesn't really matter, czar knew what I was talking about and answered for the other side as well, so it wasn't completely unclear. I am familiar with the speed thresholds too btw, but thanks. czar had, up to this point, articulated the benefits of Gaius!Kjelle over Gaius!Noire. But all I heard from the Gaius!Noire crowd was why Gaius!Noire was better because Gaius!Kjelle was unnecessary, not really what made Gaius!Noire worth choosing. I'm trying to understand the allure of that particular pair and why it is such a 50/50 split. Thanks czar, I am getting closer now. Was considering switching out Gaius!Kjelle for Gaius!Noire, but I don't think I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Oh, sorry about that. For Lissa!Morgan, should I pass down axefaire? I don't plan to keep her in War Cleric outside of just temporary fun, but at least when I do, it's there. Whereas she can go obtain all the other skills she wants. Are there any better male-exclusive skills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 There's no clear-cut best skill for males to pass down, I go with Despoil because it's fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrophys Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Oftentimes I don't even pass down a male-exclusive, simply because I already have a clear plan of what I want the unit to do and it doesn't use one of HP+5, Zeal, Rally Strength, Counter, Wrath, or Axefaire. In the rare times I actually do pass down a male-exclusive to a Morgan, I like giving them Axefaire so that Morgan (and Severa, given my typical pairings) can get access to every single weapon-faire in the game (Lancefaire from their mother's classes, Tomefaire, Bowfaire, and Swordfaire from their father's classes [as well as Healtouch for a pseudo-Stafffaire], and Axefaire from male-exclusive skill inheritance from the father). You know, just in case they do stuff like Axe Wyvern Lord after all, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I love fire emblem Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Realized I forgot Panne. Any ideas? Frederick. Yarne gets access to Pavis and Aegis and can be a semi-decent frontliner with a Pavis/Aegis and Quick Burn/Lucky 7 combo to became a physical and dodge tank. He even gets the Wyvern Rider class tree to abuse with Axefaire (though he should've had the Wyvern Rider class tree from the beginning, but IS decided otherwise). Edited October 31, 2015 by I love fire emblem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Realized I forgot Panne. Any ideas? Who's left over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucina's Husband Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Is Sumia still preferred for Lucina if she's turning out to be a Great Lord? Since if you go Olivia, she hits a nice 52 Strength while still retaining 56 speed.... Either way her husband will likely be providing her with just enough speed or strength to do what she needs to do in Apo, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Who's left over? Vaike, Frederick, Kellam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Vaike or Fred are fine. Depends if you want better mods or access to wyvern tree skills. Edited October 31, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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