False ideas on what's good in FE that we used to have

[General Banzai]

I remember when Serra/Erk and even Mist got hype as combat units, Colm > Seth for a time, and FE10 Paladins/Fliers sucked. >_>

Oh god I completely forgot about all the hype mist used to get in PoR

"BEST MAGEKILLER IN THE GAME"

[shadykid]

Oh god I completely forgot about all the hype mist used to get in PoR

"BEST MAGEKILLER IN THE GAME"

hey now, RNG-blessed Mist is hilarious

[Espinosa]

Is there even a single unit in the series that can be called a magekiller (who isn't simultaneously an everything-killer)? Because it seems like the concept refers to absolutely nothing (Palla and Catria have high Res in their default classes in FE12 and mages still do way too much damage to them on higher difficulties).

[Vashiane]

Is there even a single unit in the series that can be called a magekiller (who isn't simultaneously an everything-killer)? Because it seems like the concept refers to absolutely nothing (Palla and Catria have high Res in their default classes in FE12 and mages still do way too much damage to them on higher difficulties).

I was just about to say Libra!Brady, but he slaughters EVERYTHING.

[XeKr]

Is there even a single unit in the series that can be called a magekiller (who isn't simultaneously an everything-killer)? Because it seems like the concept refers to absolutely nothing (Palla and Catria have high Res in their default classes in FE12 and mages still do way too much damage to them on higher difficulties).

Magekiller is the niche of the lucky unit that gains 2-3 levels from staffspam every chapter, and gets 500 bexp, a forged Steel Sword and +4/5 Atk/Def supports. Or something. <_<

Edited September 5, 2013 by XeKr

[shadykid]

Is there even a single unit in the series that can be called a magekiller (who isn't simultaneously an everything-killer)? Because it seems like the concept refers to absolutely nothing (Palla and Catria have high Res in their default classes in FE12 and mages still do way too much damage to them on higher difficulties).

none, cause mages are ass

[PKL]

A good magekiller in the DS games is a unit that can kill them without taking a counter.

[Espinosa]

A good magekiller in the DS games is a unit that can kill them without taking a counter.

That's not happening on enemy phase though. Which makes me think, a unit with Vantage can be called a magekiller with a Javelin/Hand Axe forge. Not sure if such cases exist in FE4/5, somebody with more recent memories help me out here.

[shadykid]

good thing Faval's gone, Ishtar gonna win the Jugdral contest confirmed

[Snowy_One]

Brom used to be actually pretty high on the FE9 tiers (at least compared to his current placement) since, with enough work, his speed ends up... better... than Gatire's and he's still got some solid defenses to boot.

I also recall a time when all units were rated pretty much by their endgame or joining stats, never considering the time before/after respectively.

[Shadow Mir]

now if Lethality was crit/2 in RD, Volke would've been pretty great for the few chapters you had him...!

Considering the high enemy luck in RD... nope.

[shadykid]

Considering the high enemy luck in RD... nope.

not high enough for Volke's base 40+ crit, before factoring in weapon crit

but eh, why are we discussing this

[Sasori]

Is there even a single unit in the series that can be called a magekiller (who isn't simultaneously an everything-killer)? Because it seems like the concept refers to absolutely nothing (Palla and Catria have high Res in their default classes in FE12 and mages still do way too much damage to them on higher difficulties).

Libra perhaps? His combat is pretty nice when he joins, but drops fairly quickly. He does have the highest base resistence in the entire game and most early mages do no or barely any damage to him at all. Axes and mages having crap for defence makes him a pretty good way of killing them off, especially in the first chapters after he joins.

[Florete]

Theres a few nitpicky points that have stood for a long time like Titania/Haar being the best of their respective games when its quite arguable (personally not completely convinced of the reliability of the other options though). I dont think anyone actually cares to argue it though. Either one understands the underlying principles or doesnt (or does and still doesn't care) and I think were no longer all young enough to rage incessantly about it.

Interestingly, Jill rose up to be the main competition in both cases (maybe also Marcia in FE9). PoR version isn't too surprising, but RD Jill was never hyped up so much before. I think she was even once low tier on GameFAQs.

[Snowy_One]

Not to my memory, though she was considered 'average' early-on.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I remember where Rescue staffs used to be disliked for not being Warp staffs on the Awakening board. Not the case now...!

I think this refers to my post

.....and if it is, you need to read the post carefully

I mean, I am pretty sure FE13 is released after FE12

[Loki Laufeyson]

And people thinking that Lethality was worth an Occult scroll in PoR.

Wait, that was a thing? I must have missed that. I only do that for the lulz.

Lute is the best magican in FE8.

And there is some people which still believe in this.

Shes good on Eirika. Saleh stomps her in nogrind though. Lute is still worth using in my eyes. (i love her!)

hey now, RNG-blessed Mist is hilarious

Omfg it really is! Also the Magic Sword Mist Of Doom. Hahhahahaha! Mist can be hella funny good in PoR. But i do remember how people did take the process of getting her that way very seriously.

Mia sucks! I know some people will argue she's bad in FE9, but there is no denying her power in FE10 either. Though, as I recall, for a short-time after the game release she was considered low-tier (fliers were better for movement, Eddie and Zihark helped out the weaker team, Lucia dominated part 2, and Stefan required no work). Once again this was more of a dictator-list thing than a tier-list, along with FE9 Haar being better.

Mia does smell in PoR. So its unlikely shes getting transfers without serious BEXP or babying. In FE10, shes redonkulous. She is the only Swordie on Ike's team unless you nab Zihark but the DBs need him more. FE9 Haar has bigger speed problems than his FE10 godly incarnation. I dont think ive ever seen anyone argue that FE10 Stefan was amazeballs.

[Ciarre]

On the subject of drafting: FE10 drafters used to not pick Soren until well into Round 5 until I showed what he can do. And there was a time where Nolan was picked over Edward and Jill :o

Yes yes yes

I actually prefer Edward over Jill in drafts because he has the potential to save more turns (that are rather unique to him). Edward > Nolan mainly for a more reliable 1-4. You can do more things with Jill but you can also pick other dudes that save the same turns. Also, dem days when Volug was consistently picked first round.

[Chiki]

Oh yeah, Jill being bad. I think I proved she's the best in the game.

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh yeah, Jill being bad. I think I proved she's the best in the game.

It's funny to say "best in the game" when you use a second game to achieve that. And how many seraphs in fe9 does it cost to max her hp?

Edited September 6, 2013 by Narga_Rocks

[Elieson]

Oh yeah, Jill being bad. I think I proved she's the best in the game in an extreme LTC context.

Fix'd

[Espinosa]

I'm curious how well Jill would perform without any transfers and assuming average level-ups on the battlefield. She'd be much harder to turn into a ORKOing machine - perhaps you would use her for utility only (at least before part 4)?

Edited September 6, 2013 by Espinosa

[Chiki]

I've already used Jill in an LTC no transfers run to great effect.

This was even before my 179 turn run. With my new skills I could use her even better.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Celes

[Aurath8]

I used to think that Mov didn't matter and adamantly used Gilliam as General of all things. I do have to admit, sending Gilliam forward to tank something while frailer units swooped in for the kill worked quite well, but it was horrifically slow. iirc, my first Sacred Stones playthrough had a turncount of over 500.

[XeKr]

Interestingly, Jill rose up to be the main competition in both cases (maybe also Marcia in FE9). PoR version isn't too surprising, but RD Jill was never hyped up so much before. I think she was even once low tier on GameFAQs.

From what I remember (I was there near the beginning of FE10 tiering on gfaqs), Jill was comparable to Nolan (upper mid or something?). Mainly mobility vs. stats. Ofc this was before stacking bexp in fliers became understood as a dominant strategy. And we spent more time debunking exp-stealing arguments than anything else.

Haar was always understood to be near the best (in consensus competing with Ike and Reyson) though I always thought he was toppity top. Once tiering went into a more "efficiency" context, iirc his dominance was more accepted.

I'm curious how well Jill would perform without any transfers and assuming average level-ups on the battlefield. She'd be much harder to turn into a ORKOing machine - perhaps you would use her for utility only (at least before part 4)?

Basically this. A stringent reliability constraint introduces many implications that haven't been well discussed yet (to my knowledge). In actuality, even averages typically aren't enough (it's...about >50% reliable?). Binomial distributions tell us far more important information.

Jill also gets messed up by the FE10 bexp 3 stat system.

This reliability concern has other wide ranging implications such as, if dumping a million bexp into FE9 Mia so she shaves that turn, I imagine that demolishes the reliability of Marcia/Jill reaching certain stat thresholds (unless FE9 enemies are weaker than I remember). It becomes a debatable tradeoff. Expected turncount ftw?

btw no way I'm getting into the "efficiency" of soft reseting arguments.

Edited September 6, 2013 by XeKr