Choose You're Own Role Mafia - Game Over

[Refa]

Stump is someone who can post even after death.

[BBM]

I know this is horribly offensive, but Danny Elfman sounds like he has Down's Syndrome.

##Vote: Objection for now off stuff I said during the night.

[Prims]

i know this is homophobic but, bbm is gay

Edited October 26, 2013 by Professional Mafia Player

[Elieson]

I think Elieson should keep his target quiet, unless he intends on lynching BBM/Paperblade.

This. Well, minus the iStock artwork.

##Vote JSND

Why, you ask? Well, I'm still feeling pretty solid on this. His priority post after Paper turned the table looked really bad to me, because he was voting for SB then jumped to Proto, but maintained his vote on SB while defending him at the same time. Also, his only scumhunting post after his controverial list post that had like 1 non-waffley scumread in it that I replied to here, was this post here, and was still backing up his statement in his listpost. I can pull out my "Amateurish Logic" that I've already cited, but I don't really want to walk down that street for fear of creating an emotional argument that I almost started yesterday I'm looking at you, Paper.

[Grace]

i know this is homophobic but, bbm is gay

agreed

[Refa]

hi scorri stump

[scorri]

ohai guys. I'm a dead man walking. Also I got an item from "The Fabricator" that told me to target town people with the item they gave me.

[Refa]

can you even use it?

[scorri]

lolnope. I die at the end of the day.

[Elieson]

oh snap fabricator items

what was it?

[Refa]

I know this is horribly offensive, but Danny Elfman sounds like he has Down's Syndrome.

##Vote: Objection for now off stuff I said during the night.

What makes Objection scummier than bearclaw?

Reading through your statement, you mentioned he did nothing but vote for Proto for being unhappy about Proto's scum reads. Bearclaw strikes me as far more suspicious in this regard, considering he's done nothing but sheep other peoples' reasoning regarding Proto. I agree with what you have to say regarding the lack of comments on the other wagons, though. And what makes Objection's vote more important than bearclaw's? Your last point regarding Objection's vote on bearclaw makes sense, it was pinging me for some reason, but I couldn't figure out exactly why.

Why, you ask? Well, I'm still feeling pretty solid on this. His priority post after Paper turned the table looked really bad to me, because he was voting for SB then jumped to Proto,

OK, that actually bothers me too; he had them both listed as equal, so I'm confused as to why he felt compelled to change the vote. I mean, his reasoning was "so Paper's role doesn't lose its power or w/e", but that's not particularly satisfactory.

but maintained his vote on SB while defending him at the same time.

I don't see how he's defending SB in that post...

[Paperblade]

I am literally Hitler

wow

##Vote: Objection

[scorri]

It was "e" and it was used nightly and I wasn't supposed to target the same person twice.

[BBM]

Normally I find sheeping less scummy if the person admits to doing it. Also Bearclaw is just a gut townread based on his manner of posting.

Not sure if Elie's post had links screwed up or something, because I couldn't see a post where he voted SB while simultaneously defending him.

[Bluedoom]

##Vote: Shinori

I agree with BBM's case on Shinori. The part about going back and forth on proto voting him was bad. I also didn't like that you got vibes on Strege but never cared to expand on that.

I don't really find Objection scummier than Shinori. His proto vote wasn't great, yeah, but then the whole wagon failed, and his posts before that were decent. Emphasis on decent, not wtfawesome.

His train of thought makes more sense since he at least mentioned proto before actually voting him. Weird thing would be unvoting his RVS bearclaw vote and voting bearclaw again- shows absent-mindedness. Not sure what to think of that as of yet.

Yeah Eli I found you scummy for voting Strege but you're wrong in that I wasn't voting you at the time when you called me out for it, so gg, we're even at the derpreading department. I also disagree with your bearclaw vote and I think he's just an easy lynch. His BBM suspicion has been blown out of proportion, srsly I don't get why him suspecting BBM like that makes him noob!scum. Hello? Noob!town can be like that too.

Gonna go and read people like Grass and Strege. Ugh Grass you and your walls of text >_>

[charlie_]

Really low on time because of puppy training. Outing last night's results would be a bad idea.

Posting to ask Eli who he targeted.

This didn't help in Semi-Precious, why are you doing it here?

I think Elieson was referring to this post that he also linked to in that post when he said bear was defending me while voting me.

My opinion on bearclaw changed because on my reread I thought that I was overvaluing the points I brought up against him before. He's still a scumread but not my top priority, if you thought I dropped him completely.

fuck out of time

##Vote: Objection

for now

[Zkirsche]

Not got a lot of time because of a certain other mafia game.

Boron, out of interest, what happened wrt the extra vote thing? Did it have any indication of who gave it to you/requirements for its use/how long it lasts? Letting myself ponder you more has made me happier about you, but you're not out of the woods yet in my book. Same goes for Elie.

##Vote: Shinori

Sheep time. I also don't get where the suspicion on me came from, was it just for nominating myself town leader?

Strege > Shinori > Boron >> Elie

Saving something nice for Strege when he gets online :)

Think that's all I wanted to say.

[Refa]

BBM, I'd like to know what your read is on Shinori, considering you spoke with him yesterday; did it change your opinion of him? And if so, why?

I also didn't like that you got vibes on Strege but never cared to expand on that.

Why is this scummy?

I also disagree with your bearclaw vote and I think he's just an easy lynch. His BBM suspicion has been blown out of proportion, srsly I don't get why him suspecting BBM like that makes him noob!scum. Hello? Noob!town can be like that too.

I don't like how you're misrepping Elieson's argument, that isn't the only reason he found bearclaw scummy. :\

Really low on time because of puppy training. Outing last night's results would be a bad idea.

Considering we already know what your role is, I think you should out who you targeted.

[Refa]

Also reads wise, mine are still the same as they were yesterday, with the notable exception that yes, I am finding Objection to be scummier. In addition to what BBM said, I don't like how he was rallying people to vote for Proto to save Paper's role. Thinking back though, I can see it being the actions of a misguided townie (I know I've made several such mistakes in the past), so it's more of something that bothers me because I already have a scum read on him rather than the basis of it.

[The Objection!]

My responses to BBM in bold

Well I was going over some of the Proto votes and I think Objection is the worst? He says nothing about Proto prior to voting him in 373 except for in 249, where he just says he's unhappy about Proto's lack of scumreads (but also follows it up with a comment on how he's not one to judge, which sort of weakens it). His reason for voting Proto in 373 is that he doesn't like any of the other wagons (Elie, Boron, SB). Except he's said literally nothing directly about any of those three. And at the time of his vote, the votals were very close and Elie was even leading, I think. So his vote was pretty important and the lack of effort devoted to it is off-putting. There were also like 4 hours left in the phase at the time, so it's not like it was super critical he vote right away either.

I think I said that I won't be there on phase end and I really wasn't. Proto looks like the worst of the wagon to me, I was too busy to post my read on him then and I don't see the point of doing it now. Why I didn't vote the other 3 wagons is coming soon, don't worry. While it may not be critical for the game, that was my last chance to vote before phase end and I only had like 15 minutes, so uhh.... yeah.

The only real read he ever gives is on Bearclaw in 249, and at the end of it he has this: "Also, if I'm misrepping something, it's not because I mean it, It's because I don't get it / have a wrong understanding of it. Feel free to point it out."

It gives me the feeling he's like asking for someone to give him an excuse not to vote Bearclaw, which is suspicious to me because I feel that if a townie was struggling for scumreads and only had one, they'd push it a lot.

I didn't want someone to give me an excuse to not vote Bearclaw, I wrote that because I often misrepped things unintentionally and made people suspicious at me (which I didn't want). Also, if I went through the trouble of doing a post by post analysis, how was I not pushing my scumread?

Read updates coming soon.

[j00]

I was redirected last night

BBM, could you set up the next irc thing at a time suitable for Europeans? Or would you rather lead the ones you talked to last time?

spoiler tags because long post
[spoiler=bearclaw]Still don't like bearclaw

##Unvote
##Vote: Proto

SB's role isn't proving him to be town but a rolecop sounds like it could prove useful in the future.

Don't really want to lynch eli. At this point I think he should claim though someone more experienced should verify that as a good idea.

I know he's mentioned both as scumreads earlier but his reads lack conviction ("I know my reads suck/my opnion on Proto's pretty much the same as what others have said") and his later votes sound like they're mainly based on role related reasons rather than scummyness.
I mean really

Vote Proto to retain Paper's role if you don't find a leading wagon scummy.

and then he asks Elie about his target even though Elie said he failed because kinda curious?

[spoiler=Boron]
Most of Boron's posts/reads after the bear vote are based on people mentioning/scumreading her, and while I don't have concrete issues with her cases on them/her defense she's done very little scumhunting or analysis over the other players except this post. Would like her to post more reads/comments on other people, as it stands she comes off as defensive and I agree she's making a too big deal of some stuff. If you don't feel the argument's going anywhere or others become nitpicky, giving reads on others and pointing out what you find scummy with them will shift the discussion to something more useful.

Strege hasn't posted much more - read hasn't changed much either

[spoiler=Refa]
@refa: this is a long listpost with comments that doesn't say anything about the game or reads, and at that point you had enough posts that you looked active, but actual content wasn't much and made you look like an active lurker. You've posted proper reads since though. Fluff isn't a problem in itself as long as the poster clearly has actual content in addition and there's not too much of it, but it's also a way to fake scumhunting and make you look like your more active/contributing than you actually are.

It's probably just your style, but you have a tendency to say little in many words and sentences
(like on paper's role "Also when h-hahahahaha, oh god his role, I can't believe that's for real. Anyways, I've never heard of something like that before, so any rolespec on my part would be pointless. Would be pretty powerful regardless of his alignment....OK, he did bring up a good point in regards to his role being in the hands of scum."
could have been summed up with "wow wtf is that role prob too OP for scum anyway").

Your reads too are pretty wordy and waffly at times ("X is mostly okay, but I didn't like that they did/said Y about Z") and it makes your posts look nice when scimming, but sometimes your reads can be summed up with "I'm not sure about this person" and it's not that helpful.
I'm giving you the benefit of doubt right now since my style is different from yours, as I don't like stating town/null reads (which by nature will usually come off as waffly) much unless I feel there's a good reason to do so, and your scum reads and later comments/questions to people are legit enough (although did you really use proto referring to himself in 3rd person as a point against him).
Still iffy about refa, but not lynch priority today.

Really low on time because of puppy training. Outing last night's results would be a bad idea.

Considering we already know what your role is, I think you should out who you targeted.

I disagree, outing the target's only gonna inform them SB knows their role, and if they're scum who later get under suspicion they know not to fakeclaim their role. Outing roles in the thread is dumb unless it's blatantly scummy roles like strongman or something, considering we basically have town leader now.

Shinori's last posts mainly proved that he wasn't paying attention to stuff late in the phase, which is bad play but not necessarily scummy. His strege vote was weird since he never backed it up, though I thought his boron vote was okay. Still, I don't like how both Marth and kirsche went on sheeping BBM

speaking of sheeping BBM

Really low on time because of puppy training. Outing last night's results would be a bad idea.

This didn't help in Semi-Precious, why are you doing it here?

I think Elieson was referring to this post that he also linked to in that post when he said bear was defending me while voting me.

My opinion on bearclaw changed because on my reread I thought that I was overvaluing the points I brought up against him before. He's still a scumread but not my top priority, if you thought I dropped him completely.

fuck out of time

##Vote: Objection

for now

wow

##Vote: Objection

where did these come from neither of you have even mentioned him in this game
are everyone just sheeping BBM or what I don't get it these are kind of horrible

Objection isn't looking good, yes, but I'd rather have him vigged than lynched today. His reads/posts are mostly screaming /effort, even stating that he's too lazy to read everything and such, but he has so little content he's not giving me any scum/town vibes as much as lazy.

##Vote: bearclaw
you don't sound convinced about anything you do except hey, lynching proto lets paper keep his role at least
do you even have any scumreads

[Da Bear]

I have enough time to answer this so let's go:

Still don't like bearclaw

I know he's mentioned both as scumreads earlier but his reads lack conviction ("I know my reads suck/my opnion on Proto's pretty much the same as what others have said") and his later votes sound like they're mainly based on role related reasons rather than scummyness.
I mean really

and then he asks Elie about his target even though Elie said he failed because kinda curious?

you don't sound convinced about anything you do except hey, lynching proto lets paper keep his role at least
do you even have any scumreads

I literally said I was scumreading both of them and wasn't sure which one I would rather have lynched.

Paper then announced that Proto lynch would retain his role, I've been townreading paper for a while at that point so naturally I would rather keep paper's role.

I had already stated that they both seemed scummy to me so I simply voted the one that role reasons made look like a better lynch.

Yeah, I still scumread SB, I haven't gotten around to re-reading and such just yet but I will say that the Objection case is making little to no sense to me.

Also reads wise, mine are still the same as they were yesterday, with the notable exception that yes, I am finding Objection to be scummier. In addition to what BBM said, I don't like how he was rallying people to vote for Proto to save Paper's role.

That was me <_<, you're confusing me and Objection... except you include some stuff about Objection.

Why would scum do that (rally for a mislynch) though? Scum should avoid getting tied to mislynches.

And like that I'm gone for a while, my weekends are trash for free time.

[BBM]

The real problem with me having a time convenient for Europeans is that on weekdays, those times are rarely convenient for me. I normally leave home at ~8AM my time, before which most Europeans are at class or something, and come back ~8PM my time, when most Europeans are asleep. I guess I could set it up in advance at some time that Paper is going to be there?

Also the "I'd rather have people get vigged instead of lynched" attitude is sort of bad unless it's about inactives, which Objection isn't really. The act of lynching someone is enough to get associative reads, even on inactives sometimes, because you learn who's willing to just lynch an inactive.

Objection's response to me looks really self-conscious ("I didn't want people to get suspicious of me for unintentionally misrepping Bearclaw"). If people point out that you are, and you realize that you are, then you drop the case. It's that simple. You don't need to put a qualifier after all your reads. And what I meant by pushing him more is that you would have been more convinced that he was scum, enough to not need that qualifier at the end.

@Refa- I was able to speak to Shinori, but due to time constraints, not about his in-thread actions really, and the stuff we did talk about is mostly null. So my read on Shinori is more or less the same.

[Zkirsche]

I could've made that time; I'd only have had to got up an hour earlier. I just wasn't sure when it was and wasn't prepared to stay up all night to find out.

[j00]

still not entirely convinced objection's scum though, I'd like to hear his current reads first and the sheep to back up their votes better

although, I've never actually played an OC game with town leader before, is this just how town leader strategies are? leader votes, others sheep? because that's pretty lame