Choose You're Own Role Mafia - Game Over

[BBM]

Fuck you guys 6 pages in a day. Anyways, since the only person who really indicated that they might consider claiming to me claimed in-thread anyways, I'll probably just create the chat room at like 7 PM my time tomorrow (slightly less than 23 hours from now). I won't be there at that time but whatever. I'd suggest that Paperblade and SB can speak to each other for like the first 10 minutes or so privately and then 10 minutes in other people join in if they want to talk about the flip and whatnot idk.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Proto

Yeah, Proto isn't that good at the behavioural analysis stuff, but his stance on me makes no sense, and despite finding Bearclaw and me suspicious, he made no follow-up attempts after the initial incursions by us at all. Then his Paperblade vote I felt was a misrep because it wasn't like Paperblade just refused to answer to Boron off the bat- the discussion was becoming cyclic and they were rehashing the same points by that time. His SB vote is also ???

tbh Boron's two part rolename makes me a bit wary because my rolename is just Insomniac even though the OC thing is at least as big a part of my role. so ehhh idk.

[BBM]

Oh great Refa wants to claim now. >_>

My schedule makes it pretty much impossible for both me and SB to be on at the same time for both Paperblade to speak to SB and Refa to speak to me so idk. You guys can choose which one is more important. bbl dinner

[riariadne]

Man, what a bunch of jokers.

This post got delayed a bunch of times because I'm with my seven-month-old niece on and off for five hours which I did not know about ahead of time at all, and I've had to reread a bunch and stuff, so this isn't that good of a post but it's better than nothing. I'll end up using N1 to reread a bunch, I think, and try to make another post tonight. This is what I've got on some of the recent developments.

I'm pretty much totally fine with how Paper switched my vote because I think SB is generally scummy as hell.

I don't like the first part of Rein's vote on DA BEAR. Why was being confused about post restrictions scummy? I don't have one either so one or two people randomly having them (or roleplaying, in Boron's case) might confuse people. You also say that he didn't bring it up when eclipse did it, but up to that point I don't think he'd mentioned either of them and I didn't think that he thought that the two of them were scummy for it, and he hasn't really had anything resembling content since then either.

The way he said it read to me like he felt her PR (well roleplaying now) was a mark against her, though apparently you disagree.

(this post in general feels a lot fluffier than it needs to be and is mostly "i don't like half the game for minor reasons"). The whole Boron thing, on the topic of minor reasons, is way too much of a stretch for me to be comfortable with that at all.

The only reason I would object is that when a lynch is certain, SF has a habit of doing fuck all for the rest of the day, which would kind of screw us if BBM dies.

I missed this before, but this is pretty awful reasoning for not wanting to massclaim.

Rereading from the start, I don't think DA BEAR feels as scummy anymore. He's not a townread by any means but still. I don't like how he randomly picks out stuff like this and rather than spending a little time on content he makes fairly useless posts.

Why is Bear not scummy anymore? There is... no explanation for this anywhere, which is really egregious.

I'm don't like Paper (and others, mind) only wanting to lynch Proto to maintain his role. We should prioritize lynching mafia over anything like that. Bear and Objection's most recent posts are particularly atrocious because it's a bad mindset to designate a wagon as "lynch this guy if you don't think one of these 3 is mafia even if you don't find him scummy just for one guy's role". It's just a really easy vote for scum to make. If we do lynch Proto we definitely need to take an extensive look at the votes for him over the course of the day.

end rein time

[Da Bear]

I'm don't like Paper (and others, mind) only wanting to lynch Proto to maintain his role. We should prioritize lynching mafia over anything like that. Bear and Objection's most recent posts are particularly atrocious because it's a bad mindset to designate a wagon as "lynch this guy if you don't think one of these 3 is mafia even if you don't find him scummy just for one guy's role". It's just a really easy vote for scum to make. If we do lynch Proto we definitely need to take an extensive look at the votes for him over the course of the day.

You don't seem to understand. Retaining Paper's role is only part of it, I have found Proto to be scummy for a while now and I'd prefer keeping a rolecop and Paper's role around as opposed to someone who's not claimed, if Proto shows up he should claim btw.

It's more sophisticated than just "save paper's role".

[Shinori]

Refa why is it bad that I've only been talking about people who I think could be scum? My town reads are mine and mine alone.

[Prims]

Day 1.7 - Votals

Proto (7) - kirsche, Grassbridger, Serious Bananas, Elieson, bearclaw13, Objection, BigBangMeteor

Elieson (6) - eclipse, NekoRex, Bluedoom, Kay, Strege, Paperblade

Boron (3) - j00, scorri, Shinori

Serious Bananas (3) - Rocker64, Reinfleche, Proto

Paperblade (1) - Boron

Not Voting (1) - Refa

With 21 alive, it takes 7 to deadline lynch and 11 to hammer. You have 3 hours and 20 minutes left in the day.

[Refa]

I don't really see how hiding your town reads benefits town, considering scum should be aware of who town is anyways. Regardless, the part that bothered me wasn't your lack of town reads (I believe you stated in the same post that you didn't want to reveal them?), but rather that you were only listing reasons said people were scummy, while ignoring the contributions that they may have made.

[riariadne]

You don't seem to understand. Retaining Paper's role is only part of it, I have found Proto to be scummy for a while now and I'd prefer keeping a rolecop and Paper's role around as opposed to someone who's not claimed, if Proto shows up he should claim btw.

It's more sophisticated than just "save paper's role".

Your Proto read is basically like "yeah what BBM said" and then you never explain it again and haven't talked about his posts at all since your listpost which was largely useless. And then you have posts like this one that imply you don't mind lynching SB.

[Paperblade]

Tomorrow would be a bad time unless it's in the morning. At 15 hours after D1 deadline I'm going to Vegas to pick up my brother and won't be back for 8 hours minimum, we'd have to stall til an hour before deadline and SB might not even be awake then. I can talk to you + Boron + others instead tonight if this won't work

[riariadne]

I guess I'm not saying "you're voting without a read" so much as "your read sucks"

[Da Bear]

I guess I'm not saying "you're voting without a read" so much as "your read sucks"

I won't really deny this, my Proto read is basically what other people have said which is why I haven't said much about him.

[BBM]

Eh, I'll make the QT like an hour after phase end then I guess. Everyone can come in at first and then after some group discussion we can coordinate private ones based on who's there.

Proto should claim.

Hmm, Rein makes a good point about how SB says Bearclaw is less scummy but doesn't explain why and instead just provides more reasons for why he's scummy. But SB's method of claiming was super pro-town because now that he's claimed in-thread he wouldn't have had much reason not to let me at least make an input on whom he should target, which would probably result in suboptimal targets if he's scum Rolecop.

[Refa]

^^That reasoning doesn't hold up if you're scum.

I'm don't like Paper (and others, mind) only wanting to lynch Proto to maintain his role. We should prioritize lynching mafia over anything like that. Bear and Objection's most recent posts are particularly atrocious because it's a bad mindset to designate a wagon as "lynch this guy if you don't think one of these 3 is mafia even if you don't find him scummy just for one guy's role". It's just a really easy vote for scum to make. If we do lynch Proto we definitely need to take an extensive look at the votes for him over the course of the day.

end rein time

Honestly I agree about what you're saying about Proto, despite finding him scummy. Additionally, it bothers me that they're stating that one must lynch Proto, when surely 8 or so hours is enough time to build a case on someone else they found scummy.

[Refa]

Um, when I say that reasoning, referring to the last sentence.

[Shinori]

I don't really see how hiding your town reads benefits town, considering scum should be aware of who town is anyways. Regardless, the part that bothered me wasn't your lack of town reads (I believe you stated in the same post that you didn't want to reveal them?), but rather that you were only listing reasons said people were scummy, while ignoring the contributions that they may have made.

You know I used to always state town reads but then in some mafia or something a big talk happened and everyone talked about revealing town reads and not revealing town reads and everyone always seemed to say it was better to not say town reads out in the open. It's always been back and forth.

Personally sometimes I just don't feel like stating my town reads, this is one of those games. If I feel the need to state my town reads then I'll state them.

[Refa]

OK, fair enough. What are your thoughts currently regarding who's scum, though? I don't believe you've said anything recently, unless I missed something?

[Grassbridger]

Eh, I'll make the QT like an hour after phase end then I guess. Everyone can come in at first and then after some group discussion we can coordinate private ones based on who's there.

I thought it was IRC only with no "private ones"? Don't get yourself modkilled or something

[BBM]

The argument against stating townreads is that it doesn't help find scum (not necessarily true; especially later on in the game, PoE is a strong tool and the reason why most scumteams lose) and that it tells the mafia who they're unlikely to pull a mislynch on (kind of dumb because it's not that hard for them to figure out).

@Refa- That's true but I was speaking FMPOV mostly.

@Grass- By private I meant "send unwanted people out of the main channel"

[Sunwoo]

I'm sort of here. I'm also crashing really hard so don't expect me to be saying too much content until I'm better.

I'd really like it if role speculation was not a reason for people to begin suspecting me. If you find my actions scummy, then that's that. But my "having a two-part role name" means nothing. We have no scum flips, no town flips, nothing but our own role PMs to work off from. Just because scum in Touhou had two parts to their role name, that doesn't mean it's the case here.

Second, if we have to choose between lynching Elieson and Proto today, I'd rather go with Proto. I am really not seeing the case on Elieson and I do not want him lynched, while I do have some misgivings with Proto.

##Unvote

##Vote: Proto

[Shinori]

Boron > Kirsche > Proto > Elie > SB<---My top scum reads at the moment and my preference in lynch

I'm probably gonna have to swap vote to consolidate on a lynch.

That being said:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Proto

[Shinori]

I know I mentioned this earlier but I felt his vote park on me lasted a bit long as well.

[BBM]

I'd really like it if role speculation was not a reason for people to begin suspecting me. If you find my actions scummy, then that's that. But my "having a two-part role name" means nothing. We have no scum flips, no town flips, nothing but our own role PMs to work off from. Just because scum in Touhou had two parts to their role name, that doesn't mean it's the case here.

Touhou wasn't part of my decision process. The scum in Touhou might have had a 2-part rolename, but they all had an ability that only revealed one part of that rolename to rolecops. All we have is our own role PM to work off, and that's what I'm basing my slight wariness on. The OC chatroom part of my role is at least as important as the insomnia part, yet my rolename is only Insomniac. Admittedly though, I'm not even sure what the chatroom part of the role would be called.

If anyone else can vouch to also having a 2-part rolename we can just lay this to rest.

Also we only need 7 to deadline lynch and we already had that so I don't see the point of voting for consolidation?

[Sunwoo]

Touhou wasn't part of my decision process. The scum in Touhou might have had a 2-part rolename, but they all had an ability that only revealed one part of that rolename to rolecops. All we have is our own role PM to work off, and that's what I'm basing my slight wariness on. The OC chatroom part of my role is at least as important as the insomnia part, yet my rolename is only Insomniac. Admittedly though, I'm not even sure what the chatroom part of the role would be called.

If anyone else can vouch to also having a 2-part rolename we can just lay this to rest.

Even if Touhou wasn't a part of your decision process, how my role is structured isn't a good reason to suspect me. If I started doing things with my role or contradicting other people's results, then yes, this is a reason. But what I see right now pertaining to suspicion based on my role is that it has two parts. I don't know what Prims' thought process when naming these roles were. So unless you do, this is a dumb reason.

Also, I don't like the idea of having someone else to say, "yes I have a 2-part rolename" to "lay this to rest" just because you guys are paranoid about mine.

[Refa]

OK, let's get these other reads (OK, I was too lazy to write out a detailed read on kirsche, sorry) out of the way fast, I need to cram caffeinated club soda sprinkled minute doses of various other substances that may or may not have come out of a chemical factory down my throat so fast you can't believe.

Leaning Town

Strege- I think his persistence on my character claim thing to be silly (admittedly, there might be some bias there), but I'm not really seeing the scum intent in it. It's not like he's trying to cherrypick certain parts of my posts, as he has agreed with other points of mine. His comments about being tired of fighting over the flavour fishing reads as frustrated town (I typoed this as frustrated scum the first time LOL) to me, and I've definitely been in similar situations in the past (such as when people were constantly complaining about my No Lynch suggestion in Fake Claim or when I stated that MAYBE there could be a benefit to lynching a townie in Kirby, both on Day 1). I think Grassbridger's kirsche case is fair, even though later posts of kirsche make me think that he's town. His points on bearclaw are fair enough, and while I don't agree with his Kay case, there's nothing about it that annoys me.

Null Reads

Elieson- I don't think his early points concerning BBM are bad. Honestly, I was thinking of why BBM didn't ask for a Cop to confirm him N1 before BBM listed out his reasoning for that (which I agree with). However, I don't like how he's casting suspicion on BBM for trying to become town leader. OK, several people have explained to me why scum would want to be town leader, but I'm still not getting why it is an inherently scummy thing to do. I don't like when he said Strege voting me despite not finding me scummy, considering Strege already stated he's considered me scummy on multiple occasions. His other points regarding Strege are valid, though I'm not really seeing the scum intent in them myself. And he makes some good points on bearclaw too. Definitely would prefer to lynch Proto over him.

Boron- I don't find her initial case on bearclaw to be flawed. Besides the pressure vote nonsense, which just looks like an afterthought in her original post, the logic is fine. What really bothers me is that most of her posts are defending herself or explaining her read on bearclaw. None of these things are inherently scummy, but it bothers me nontheless; moreso by the lack of reads than the defensiveness, as Boron has done that before as town. I agree with what she's saying in regards to Strege and bearclaw, though. Don't like her Paperblade vote, although not sure of whether there was scum intent or not. Additionally, I'm getting more town vibes from her later posts. And I think lynching her for having a 2 part role would be dumb, although admittedly I know like nothing about the games SB and BBM are referring too.

Leaning Scum

Bearclaw- His initial reasons for finding BBM suspect bothers me. I mean, mod meta and rolespec? Seriously? It just reads to me as a lot of fluff that sidetracks town more than anything else. It doesn't help when he contradicts himself too, by stating that he never doubted the truthfulness of BBM's claim when clearly he did with all of his role spec (I'm not buying that he could only see such a role as scum). Then he posts I don't want BBM lynched...right before voting him how is this not pinging anyone else? Paperblade and BBM have stated that his posting style is different from Fakeclaim, but that could just be because he's getting more advice from his scumbuddies this time around; after all, I'm told my posting style was different from my norm in Fakeclaim too after the third day or so. NOW I'm not saying that the difference in posting style makes him scummy, I just don't like people assuming that he's town because of this. His Boron vote looks rather lazy too, and no, admitting that your votes were lazy later on does not make you look better. His SB vote honestly seems like an OMGUS to me, and his reads post has a lot of fluff (which Elieson described in one of his earlier posts). And yeah, I think Rein did make a good point about how he was eager to get people to jump onto Proto's wagon. Honestly, I would prefer to lynch him over Proto, but considering how many votes Proto has on him at the moment, that doesn't seem like it's going to be likely. Whatever.

##Vote: bearclaw

Proto- I don't like his early BBM case, as he's casting suspicion on BBM, but isn't providing reasons. For reference, I find this to be worse than people like Elieson (who did provide reasons) or kirsche (who found him null). Also while perhaps not inherently scummy, his referring to himself in the 3rd person was...strange. While I don't agree with his bearclaw case, I'm not getting the massive scum vibes that everyone else seemed too. OK, it also bothers me when he claims that BBM making detailed plans for N1 is inherently scummy, seems more like a null read to me. And yes, the complete 180 he made was bad; I don't really like his explanation for it. The reason I'm not voting him is because well...bearclaw and Objection's attitudes regarding lynching him. Supposedly we're supposed to lynch him to preserve Paperblade's role, which is an awful reason to lynch someone.

Anyways, as far as lynch priorities go for me, it's

Bearclaw > Proto > SB > Boron > Elieson > Everyone Else

[Shinori]

Touhou wasn't part of my decision process. The scum in Touhou might have had a 2-part rolename, but they all had an ability that only revealed one part of that rolename to rolecops. All we have is our own role PM to work off, and that's what I'm basing my slight wariness on. The OC chatroom part of my role is at least as important as the insomnia part, yet my rolename is only Insomniac. Admittedly though, I'm not even sure what the chatroom part of the role would be called.

If anyone else can vouch to also having a 2-part rolename we can just lay this to rest.

Also we only need 7 to deadline lynch and we already had that so I don't see the point of voting for consolidation?

I honestly read over it cause I haven't slept for a while.