Choose You're Own Role Mafia - Game Over

[Bluedoom]

Ya ok guys sorry. Welp i'm dying 2night kthxbai

[Zkirsche]

(also what don't you people get about "phase pause, shut up")

I was cut.

Objection! why did you lie about your role? (Also what is librarian?)

[charlie_]

erm

what

[Bluedoom]

Also i forgot to say we have a Bomb/ Bulletproof person somewhere in this setup. Err, we may actually. Don't know for sure.

Saying this because I feel anal about what just happened and I also stopped caring now.

[charlie_]

marth please don't flake as dayvig again

especially when i'm town this time

[j00]

uh

so is this an average prims game or something

do you know who?

I know who I was redirected to, but not who redirected me.

And what if SB is scum? Having him state who he targeted now means he can't change his mind later when it's convenient to do so. Regardless, I never stated that he should out actual roles, only who he targeted.

SB's role isn't easy to fake, he'd only know the roles of the ones he targeted. to "change his mind" he'd have to say roles of the ones everyone know (people who claimed in thread/dead), because faking results would just meet with an immediate counterclaim

I don't think you should vig someone for lack of activity...

this is one of the better uses for vig, I'd say, because a general attitude towards lynching inactives prevents scum from coasting

Strege's reaction from kirsche's fake day vig is a null read to me, for while he didn't fullclaim saying he was supposed to be dead, he did post the reads he was writing. honestly their arguments are getting pretty nitpicky and borderline tunneling, and I'd like both to say more reads on other players.

still, I'm finding Strege more scummy than kirsche, he's defensive and is still asking questions like "what about my reaction did you not like" and such. hasn't improved my read on him

(bearclaw still top scumread though)

@kirsche: don't think objection lied about his role, in the rules/mechanics it says that titles doesn't really need to specify abilities or role. I mean lying about being a day vig right after someone else lied about being a day vig is the most retarded idea ever

[j00]

also I don't like how refa asked SB to out his target and if I knew who I was redirected to, stuff like that's not information worth outing without a good reason and feels like fishing

[charlie_]

Librarian was scorri's role in Touhou iirc.

The proto wagon was dumb. It was largely made because people were like "LOL I DON'T WANT PAPER TO LOSE HIS ROLE, PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE PROTO!" I feel like SB was one of the major people saying that but I can't remember if that's actually true? I will try and ISO, but I'd say look at the people that were actively encouraging people to vote Proto without actually arguing as to why he was scummy.

I mentioned it once, and already voted for Proto and given reasons as to why he was scummy before Paperblade brought that up iirc.

Strege's reaction sits fine with me due to his explanation.

This post by Grass bugs me, it's like "sorry I'll do reads later but for now rolespec". I get that you might not have much time, but why take up the time that you do have throwing more rolespec questions out there and asking kirsche more stuff about his reaction test that don't help with scumhunting (flavorspec in this game is lol) and basically saying that he did the reaction rest badly.

Reskimmed Rein and some of the stuff in this post bothers me. I feel like he's trying hard to twist both mine and Paper's words in it. I said that I don't find DA BEAR "as scummy", but he twisted it to make it seem like I'd dropped the suspicion entirely, despite the fact I brought up a point against him in the same point. And in no way did Paperblade push for a Proto lynch, he was outright arguing against the thing, and said that for the sake of his role was the only reason to consider it. He also never said anything on Proto despite objecting to his wagon due to other people's pushes on him. He also seemed pretty resigned to the fact it was a mislynch.

##Vote: Rein

[Elieson]

What the shitballs was that Marth?

I dunno what's going on, but with all the banter today, I'm not really developing any new scumreads, I feel like I'm finding more townreads to work with compared to anything else. Either that, or my few scumreads are abit more confident. I dunno this day phaes is just weird to me.

Marth, why do you think a bpv/bomb exists? SB, what was librarian (in 2ho)?

[charlie_]

It gave people setup info iirc.

[scorri]

The town version of Librarian meant that I could hand out information to people without knowing what it was. I just had books that I handed out to people. The scum version meant that I secretly also found out the information.

[riariadne]

Back again.

Also i forgot to say we have a Bomb/ Bulletproof person somewhere in this setup. Err, we may actually. Don't know for sure.

Why would you out this at all

Reskimmed Rein and some of the stuff in this post bothers me. I feel like he's trying hard to twist both mine and Paper's words in it. I said that I don't find DA BEAR "as scummy", but he twisted it to make it seem like I'd dropped the suspicion entirely, despite the fact I brought up a point against him in the same point.

You never explained what made you think he was less scummy at all, which looked to me like you were dropping a good part of your scumread for no reason whatsoever.

And in no way did Paperblade push for a Proto lynch, he was outright arguing against the thing, and said that for the sake of his role was the only reason to consider it. He also never said anything on Proto despite objecting to his wagon due to other people's pushes on him. He also seemed pretty resigned to the fact it was a mislynch.

I never said Paper was pushing for a Proto lynch, I was just saying that his role was his only reason for brining it up as a possibility, which I didn't like since he seemed fine with the lynch for that reason alone. The way the wagon piled up on him so quickly made it seem like at least some of the people on it were scum gunning for an easy mislynch with easy reasoning when there were 3 other options. The only reason I didn't look at the wagon at first was to being... not here almost all yesterday. Your Proto vote seemed pretty weak to me, too, since you mentioned him once and a couple of your reasons were questionable at best (doubting an unproven leader claim isn't scummy even if they've done something similar in the past, and the "YOU MUST CONTINUE TO TUNNEL" felt like a total oversimplification of his read on Paper).

Plenty of the other votes on Proto weren't that good either. Elieson seemed to be way more suspicious of bear and just moved to Proto because nobody else was on bear even though I'm pretty sure that he could have gotten some support with any sort of effort, since lots of people were scumreading bear but not voting him and seemed to feel the same about nobody voting him. I already said why I think bear is scummy and his vote was weak on D1 and I feel the same as I did then. Objection's was bad too but he flipped town, so there's that. Boron said "I have misgivings about lynching Eli" and never really talked about them and her vote was sort of the decisive one that pushed him over, too, so there's that to think about.

That's it for now, I think.

[BBM]

sigh Marth

at the very least you should have let Objection shoot someone first before shooting him if you thought he was SK >_>

##Vote: Shinori

His D2 content has consisted of being a super high-school level flake, and here's another thing from D1 I noticed: he says he doesn't really like my Proto vote, but then votes Proto later anyways (albeit for slightly different reasons). Also he goes from voting Strege to voting Boron for pushing Strege, agreeing with Paperblade in the process that Strege is an easy wagon, even though he was just voting there himself.

Can we have votals?

[Grassbridger]

Yes I am actually Rikka. If you watched chuunibyou you'd know what I mean by 8th grader syndrome. Basically, my role is flavour based and that's the explanation given for it.

Ughhhh those last two sentences are exactly what I found out on my own through google before asking you to explain.

@kirsche: don't think objection lied about his role, in the rules/mechanics it says that titles doesn't really need to specify abilities or role. I mean lying about being a day vig right after someone else lied about being a day vig is the most retarded idea ever

Remember when Paperblade (? I think) posted 3 fake vigs in a row on the same day? (or was the 3rd one real maybe)

Point is, it's been done.

Librarian was scorri's role in Touhou iirc.

This post by Grass bugs me, it's like "sorry I'll do reads later but for now rolespec". I get that you might not have much time, but why take up the time that you do have throwing more rolespec questions out there and asking kirsche more stuff about his reaction test that don't help with scumhunting (flavorspec in this game is lol) and basically saying that he did the reaction rest badly.

(Thanks for clarifying I was going to have to ask another role question)

I was trying to stick to the "post at least once every 24 hours" rule (i.e. an actual rule of this game) so I felt like I had to post something, and I wanted to clarify Kirsche's claim. I don't think flavorspec is entirely useless, and making someone confirm all parts of their story can potentially trap them in a contradiction later, which would be scummy. And I was confused (maybe because I was drunk,). But saying that he did the reaction test badly was an actual legitimate point, and I'm glad I posted it because BBM brought up that it actually makes it seem more realistic to clue it earlier (which I don't necessarily agree with, but I was glad to get another perspective).

Some reads.

Rein only had two scumreads D1, JSND and SB. And the SB read developed after his vote was moved there by Paperblade, and suddenly you find SB scummy as hell in your next post? I don't like it, feels scummy, like you're looking to avoid putting down your own vote. Didn't really even talk about anyone but JSND and people who interacted with him until your vote got moved D2 isn't much better (yet)--it's not worse, really, but vote-analyzing the Proto wagon has been done by numerous people. Doesn't make it bad, just doesn't help Rein in my eyes.

JSND Has A Dragon Boner has done lots of scummy things, as pointed out by many people, but the improvement in his play near the end of D1 made me feel a little better about him (that, and maybe a gut read, idk). Acknowledging that he looks somewhat scummy but would lynch others ahead of him.

...well that wasn't as many ISOs as I had hoped to get through but I'm out of time for now.

[Grassbridger]

Oh right

##Vote: GOLDBERG

for reasons stated above

[Strege]

Not really seeing any scum intent in Objection's DayVig claim, and considering how easily proveable it is, would not be willing to lynch today.

Obviously still suspicious of bearclaw. Other people I would be willing to lynch are...SB (I had him as Null yesterday, and nothing he's done today has made me feel like he's a townie). Also kind of suspicious of Rocker64 for role related reasons.

As far as other people with more than 1 vote on them at the moment are concerned, would like to see more content from Shinori before deciding my opinion on him and not willing to lynch Strege.

I recognize that Objection was kind of a scumread of yours and is dead now, but I read from this that your secondary lynch candidate right now is a null read from last phase that hasn't done anything scummy or townie since? I didn't feel like you were pushing Objection that hard either (sort of blandly referencing BBM's argument for much of it). Do you have any other scumreads? (I guess this is my way of saying you should find other scumreads.)

Responding to kirsche's post 597 (because I forgot to press the quote button): I'm not sure what was scummy about me holding onto my Refa opinion or not commenting on bearclaw's listpost in the way you wanted to. I've explained the extent of my point about your Boron case I think. I also just disagree with you and am reluctant to post in situations when I'm not supposed to even if a mod hasn't officially updated the gamestate because I don't know what the mod wants and it can mean deciding plays based on the mod's schedule (which is lame).

I've been trying to determine what kirsche's reaction test means for my read on him, and it seems like he would get more support for scumbuddies if he were scum? While it could have been a ploy to gain townie points it just seemed uncoordinated and risked drawing attention to himself. This and my feeling like our trouble communicating is contributing to what I see as a bad tunnel alleviates my scumread on him a bit, but the fact that all he's done today other than the reaction test is tunnel me, talk about Boron briefly (half because I asked and half because of the motivator thing if I'm not mistaken), and vote Shinori as a self-proclaimed sheep and because Shinori has a weak reason for suspecting him makes me really uncomfortable. I would still be A-okay with lynching kirsche and want to see more reads because I feel like what we're arguing about is just a circular mess at this point. What do you think of, say, the votes on bearclaw or Shinori (I think Shinori has a few votes on him; I'm going to do votals in a sec).

Kay and bearclaw haven't posted since my last list of scumreads so it still looks pretty similar, but I'm tentatively tacking Refa on the end because though I don't remember anything particularly scummy about his recent posts I just realized that his actual scumreads have been pretty weak considering his quantity of activity and comments. I'm going to reread Refa.iso soon-ish.

kirsche > Kay > bearclaw > eclipse > Refa

Actually I feel like most of that list could stand to update us on a few people they think are scum right now, for one reason or another (Refa sort of did but only mentioned Rocker as a third scumread for undescribed role-related reasons which doesn't really contribute at this stage).

[BBM]

@Rein- What's bad about Marth outing that there's a Bomb/BPV in the setup? As long as the mafia doesn't know who they are, it just makes the mafia more nervous about their choice of kill, since it could go wrong.

Also I don't remember Paperblade ever saying he was okay with Proto's lynch just because it'd keep his role (all he said was that lynching Proto would allow him to keep his role, not that that made it okay to lynch Proto). Nor did SB say that Proto was scummy for doubting an unproven leader- he said that Proto was suspicious for finding me scummy for trying to lead the town while being unproven, which are two different things.

[Zkirsche]

My reads have not really changed sine the beginning of D1. Thus:

I have always disagreed with the bearclaw case.

I am still finding Shinori scummy for reasons already stated in the thread.

Strege > Shinori > Boron >> Elie

GB's rein case is interesting.

[Zkirsche]

So is SB's for that matter.

[Strege]

Votals? Don't get me started on votals...

bearclaw (4): Refa, Elie, j00, Boron

SB (1): Rein

Shinori (3): Marth, eclipse, BBM

kirsche (1): Strege

Rein (2): SB, Grassbridger

Strege (2): kirsche, kirsche

Voteless scum: Kay, Paperblade, Shinori, Rocker, Neko, bearclaw

I'm assuming kirsche still has two votes on me.

We have 32.5 hours to decide on a lynch if I don't completely suck at math. I don't know the vote rules exactly because the hammer ones aren't specified and the last deadline-lynch-number seems to contradict the OP, but I think it's 6 votes for deadline and 9 for hammer.

[Refa]

SB's role isn't easy to fake, he'd only know the roles of the ones he targeted. to "change his mind" he'd have to say roles of the ones everyone know (people who claimed in thread/dead), because faking results would just meet with an immediate counterclaim

You misunderstand. When I say fake, I mean he can lie about who he inspected later on when it's more convenient. Although...thinking about that now, I'm not really too sure why scum would ever need to do that. :\

also I don't like how refa asked SB to out his target and if I knew who I was redirected to, stuff like that's not information worth outing without a good reason and feels like fishing

lol, how am I rolefishing when SB has a claimed role already and everyone in this game has a power role (which may or may not have multiple abilities)?

Oh right

##Vote: GOLDBERG

for reasons stated above

How is Rein worse than bearclaw, who you've stated to have done a lot of scummy things?

I recognize that Objection was kind of a scumread of yours and is dead now, but I read from this that your secondary lynch candidate right now is a null read from last phase that hasn't done anything scummy or townie since? I didn't feel like you were pushing Objection that hard either (sort of blandly referencing BBM's argument for much of it). Do you have any other scumreads? (I guess this is my way of saying you should find other scumreads.)

Only other person I'm finding suspicious at the moment is Shinori, but voting someone for inactivity is lame when I have a stronger case to push. Would like to hear more from him before I decide my position on him.

[Elieson]

Refa really quick,

Role cops outing their target early (when already claimed) makes it so they can't later say "oh n1 I scanned [dead player], and n2 I scanned [dead player]" etc. It does have its merits, even if the claimed role itself is withheld

[eclipse]

That was a dumb reason to fake, and I don't blame Marth for shooting.

And what if SB is scum? Having him state who he targeted now means he can't change his mind later when it's convenient to do so. Regardless, I never stated that he should out actual roles, only who he targeted.

Instead of HINTING at it, you should be ON HIS ASS, if you think he's scum.

Because I'll have to post here if I want to kill someone. My role's going out this day anyway, so why not claim?

Note for postgame: DON'T USE THIS LOGIC TO JUSTIFY CLAIMING AN UNUSED DAYVIG. Even if you are a dayvig.

also I don't like how refa asked SB to out his target and if I knew who I was redirected to, stuff like that's not information worth outing without a good reason and feels like fishing

Then why did you answer it?

HI REIN I'M OVER HERE! And what made you change your mind about Elieson?

I'd like Strege to explain why I'm still on that list. I don't like that Shinori came back, promised a post, and left.

[Elieson]

(Granted town and sucm can both do that, but scum can write it off easier )

[BBM]

Well, if SB had just said "oh I targeted X", it would have been fine, but now that he's said "I targeted somebody and outing it would be a Bad Idea" it implies that the person he targeted has an important role, so outing his target in public now really would be a Bad Idea.