Choose You're Own Role Mafia - Game Over

[Sunwoo]

NekoRex: He's doing a lot of complaining about this game moving too fast, and the only game-related thing he's commented on is "BBM's claim is null and bearclaw is/was overreacting but I don't see it as a reason to vote him". If keeping up is that much of an issue, you should probably sub out.

Objection: His only scum read was bearclaw when he put a serious vote down. Aside from saying he was unhappy about Proto's lack of scum reads, his other comments to specific people were mostly asking them to explain stuff. And when he actually votes bearclaw he adds in a statement to "cover his butt". Never really followed up with comments on anything else that happened later in D1. Also, is bearclaw STILL is only scum read?

Rocker: So far, his only comments are on BBM role stuff. Would like him to post actual reads when he's back.

Strege: Well, uh, according to the various pedits he's dead ;/ Still think he's scummy though.

I'll comment on Refa, Shinori, SB, and Elieson later. I'm getting distracted and can't focus.

[Refa]

@Strege

You haven't been hammered yet, Prims is gone like all day.

[Zkirsche]

That's self-meta, and does very little for the game.

Is this really all the meta in his post, because "too much meta" implies more ;/

Doing lab prep until I know if I'm actually dead or not (assuming dead). Posting after hammer / when dead is bad form dont u know.

What the fuck.

If you're town just say what you have to say, you're not dead until Prims says you are.

Still holding to my "If you're not scum I'm pissed" stance.

[Sunwoo]

From my personal experience as mafia, touchiness is more common in scum than town.

I didn't play in schoolteacher, nor did I, or plan to, read it.

From my personal experience as mafia and town, I'm just touchy in general for no reason whatsoever. Regardless, while I can understand why tone or being overly defensive qualifies as "scummy things", I don't like how I literally went to like your third scum read over "touchiness" alone.

In schoolteacher I got so mad I threatened to modkill myself and I nearly did it too. No points for guessing what my alignment was that game.

[eclipse]

I have to do this EVERY TIME I want to post. ;/

Is this really all the meta in his post, because "too much meta" implies more ;/

It implies however much I want it to imply; in this case, it's far more meta than pushing reads/doing anything else that would somehow make the game more helpful to town. I'd rather not have to explain why it's bad, unless you're lying about your role (since, if you are to be believed, he's already dead).

[Shinori]

GOTTA GET A POST OUT. Gonna read and get something today. Or something.

[Zkirsche]

I'm just touchy in general for no reason whatsoever.

I'm not accepting self-meta as a valid excuse.

in this case, it's far more meta than pushing reads/doing anything else that would somehow make the game more helpful to town.

Fair enough, just wanted to try and see what was going through your head.

Boron, can you answer

Boron, out of interest, what happened wrt the extra vote thing? Did it have any indication of who gave it to you/requirements for its use/how long it lasts?

Because I was away for the whole motivator thing, so I still have a few questions.

[Strege]

Fine -- I wrote most of this before you apparently murdered me so here you go:

It's not about having more to say, it's about how you said it. I've already explained why I think you were being unusually protective of BBM.

// If that's the case then I never did drop the issue because I continued to vote Refa and you thought that was a vry srs vote as opposed to a Strege-doesn't-have-time-to-read-other-people so ???

It's because instead of holding to your convictions, you're willing to bend to whatever other people are saying, which is something scum often like to do to try and seem town.

// See above.

It's not the only noteworthy topic though. We have the whole thing with Refa as an obvious counterexample and I can't help but feel that you only find me scummy for finding you scummy, which is an obvious OMGUS.

// Because apparently the Refa thing wasn't noteworthy, at least as far as anyone but me is concerned. Still, what would you rather I do? Announce my available hours and keep a wholly unsupported RVS vote like a lot of other people? My late D1 focus might have been too much on you because I didn't have time to read things that weren't directed at me very thoroughly, but that is not the only reason.

Ok, I disagree but ok. It took way too long to get here though.

// I didn't understand what you were getting at until that point, but why take such a roundabout route to asking me that question?

It's not disagreeing with you which is what I find scummy it's the way in which you kept your vote for such a weak reason which I find scummy.

This is not the kind of topic which requires you to see a lot of to get a solid read, this is teh kind of topci you see once, think about it a bit, and then make your mind up on. Well, that's what those with the town do anyway.

I don't know what you're even getting at here. I've explained that we disagree on the validity of my Refa argument but you're ignoring both my time constraints and other arguments against Refa by calling it voteparking (at least, you haven't addressed them in this regard). I don't know what topic you've committed yourself to an interpretation of but I don't know how inflexibility is a townie quality? :P

The conceptual extreme was the "we can literally never criticize overdefensiveness" thing.

I really don't feel okay about posting WHILE DEAD unless this is a trick but idk... This is why I don't support fakevigs as reaction tests btw. I think it was Touhou where everyone posted after hammer for like an hour because Prims was gone and he withheld the flip and I felt bad for it LIKE THE WHOLE NIGHT. I might reply to specific things but I'm not digging through the thread.

Also Boron's and eclipse's scumreads of me coming out of the woodwork now is amusing. What ever happened to respect for the dead?

[Sunwoo]

I'm not accepting self-meta as a valid excuse.

I'm not expecting you to, but you can't expect that everyone who you think acts "overly touchy" is scum for doing so just because you apparently are either.

Boron, can you answer

Boron, out of interest, what happened wrt the extra vote thing? Did it have any indication of who gave it to you/requirements for its use/how long it lasts?

Because I was away for the whole motivator thing, so I still have a few questions.

My vote was said to have counted as two for the last 24 hours of the day, plus an extra action. No indication of who was responsible for it, though. I received the motivation about an hour before phase end, so ...

[scorri]

Posting after hammer / when dead is bad form dont u know.

Talking while you're dead is awesome, get at me scrub.

The proto wagon was dumb. It was largely made because people were like "LOL I DON'T WANT PAPER TO LOSE HIS ROLE, PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE PROTO!" I feel like SB was one of the major people saying that but I can't remember if that's actually true? I will try and ISO, but I'd say look at the people that were actively encouraging people to vote Proto without actually arguing as to why he was scummy.

[Zkirsche]

If that's the case then I never did drop the issue because I continued to vote Refa and you thought that was a vry srs vote as opposed to a Strege-doesn't-have-time-to-read-other-people so ???

It's most definitely not the latter, you wrote a wall and kept your vote and even tried justifying it.

Still, what would you rather I do? Announce my available hours and keep a wholly unsupported RVS vote like a lot of other people?

Except you practically did keep a wholly unsupported vote which was made around RVS so I don't get what you're getting at here.

but that is not the only reason.

Sure.

I didn't understand what you were getting at until that point, but why take such a roundabout route to asking me that question?

What roundabout route? I've been telling you since the very first time you talked about bear's list post to talk abotu the content in it, even telling you to ignore my attacks on you to actually read it.

The conceptual extreme

I don't really see how that's a strawman, that's not me misrepresenting her position that's me saying what her position would justify and why we can't take it.

It many just be from tier discussions, but when people start pulling out these logical fallacy buzzwords I think they're just desperate and overly frustrated.

I really don't feel okay about posting WHILE DEAD unless this is a trick but idk... This is why I don't support fakevigs as reaction tests btw.

Oh man you're just going to love this.

I'm mayor claimt0me.

This is why my vote was listed twice.

Dayvigs are entirely different to phase ends because phase end is the end whereas dayvigs are only until the host sees the kill.

Vote stays, didn't like the reaction to my fake vig.

[Prims]

I'm here on train internet. FTR if somebody had died the game would've been paused until I came back.

[Strege]

It's most definitely not the latter, you wrote a wall and kept your vote and even tried justifying it.

// It was not as vry srs as you seem to think. I don't know what this has to do with your apparent belief that I pressed for leader!BBM by attacking bearclaw and Refa but then dropped it except not because I continued to push Refa.

Except you practically did keep a wholly unsupported vote which was made around RVS so I don't get what you're getting at here.

// I supported it as much as I could given that Refa stopped posting.

Sure.

What roundabout route? I've been telling you since the very first time you talked about bear's list post to talk abotu the content in it, even telling you to ignore my attacks on you to actually read it.

// I did read it. It is a long post and I wasn't going to dig though ISOs to check every point, so you could have directed me toward it more specifically. It was orthogonal to my original point about presentation anyway so I don't understand how I'm being criticized for this? Also, why would I ignore attacks on me?

I don't really see how that's a strawman, that's not me misrepresenting her position that's me saying what her position would justify and why we can't take it.

It many just be from tier discussions, but when people start pulling out these logical fallacy buzzwords I think they're just desperate and overly frustrated.

// I am mildly frustrated because of all of these miscommunications and I probably did misuse the term. I don't think that was the natural extension of Boron's words, but stretching them to an extreme case in an effort to make her sound unreasonable.

Oh man you're just going to love this.

I'm mayor claimt0me.

This is why my vote was listed twice.

Dayvigs are entirely different to phase ends because phase end is the end whereas dayvigs are only until the host sees the kill.

Vote stays, didn't like the reaction to my fake vig.

IIRC it was hammer in Touhou, not phase end, and I still don't like it. What part of my reaction don't you like?

[Strege]

Yeah Eli I found you scummy for voting Strege but you're wrong in that I wasn't voting you at the time when you called me out for it, so gg, we're even at the derpreading department. I also disagree with your bearclaw vote and I think he's just an easy lynch. His BBM suspicion has been blown out of proportion, srsly I don't get why him suspecting BBM like that makes him noob!scum. Hello? Noob!town can be like that too.

Marth, could you clarify your read of Elie a little for me? You've talked about him more than anyone else but voted both Proto and Shinori with really concise logic, so I'm not sure where Elie stands in relation to them.

[BBM]

Kirsche, what didn't you like about the reaction? I thought it was decent myself.

[Zkirsche]

I don't really like how he sort of gave up. In my mind up to making the reaction test I was thinking what would be scummiest and I decided that giving up was the worst thing one could do.

I might be metaing badly but there's only one way I can find that out.

[Strege]

I don't really like how he sort of gave up. In my mind up to making the reaction test I was thinking what would be scummiest and I decided that giving up was the worst thing one could do.

I might be metaing badly but there's only one way I can find that out.

Why did you find me "giving up" scummy, and are you referring to the fact that I just felt bad posting when I thought I there was a good chance of me being dead?

[eclipse]

Guys, the game is frozen. I'd lock the thread, but I don't know when I'm coming home.

[Bluedoom]

I'm here on train internet. FTR if somebody had died the game would've been paused until I came back.

Apparently the game isn't frozen, I think? What kirsche did was a reaction test, yes?

Strege: Elieson looks less scummy since he's been posting more although apparently I can't read his bearclaw case properly? I think Shinori's scummier than him for active-lurking.

Re-reading the thread currently. So much content, shit.

[Bluedoom]

kisrche if you're mayor then why did Boron have two votes on proto at the end of last D phase?

[Grace]

Guys, the game is frozen. I'd lock the thread, but I don't know when I'm coming home.

?

game isn't paused at all clipsey

[Refa]

kisrche if you're mayor then why did Boron have two votes on proto at the end of last D phase?

Bluedom brings up a good objection, but for the wrong reasons. Boron had 2 votes because she stated that she received a PM (? Some sort of message) that she had double vote one hour before the phase end. Now, if kirsche WAS the mayor, that means that Proto would have been hammered at that time. Listed below specifically;

Proto (10) - kirsche, Grassbridger, Serious Bananas, Elieson, bearclaw13, Objection, BigBangMeteor, Shinori, Boron, Boron L-1!

SO clearly something's up here. Also I will reread the last 5 pages in an hour or two, haven't really had the time to do much but skim and make passing remarks.

[eclipse]

Alright, looks like it was a reaction test. One that ate away what free time I would've had with the game. Response later.

[Paperblade]

it's obvious kirsche's day ability used gives him extra votes

[Bluedoom]

Yeah but if its a one-shot then its pretty much the same as to what Boron used D1. Which means maybe somebody else is giving them their POWAHZ