Marriage in Games.

[Snowy_One]

So, marriage in games. Pretty straight-forwards topic. For the record, I am not talking about gay marriage, but rather something else entirely. It seems of late that allowing a character to get married in a game is heavily on the decline. Yes, Fire Emblem allows marriages out the rear, but aside from that, the character either starts off the game married or will unlikely to ever get married at any point throughout the game. The game may have plenty of romantic moments and/or sex, but actual marriage? Even as part of the epilogue it's unlikely.

It doesn't matter if Shepard loves Ashley/Liara/Tali/Miranda/that one gay guy whose name I can't remember/whoever else he can date to death, he can't marry them. It doesn't matter just how much Hawke cares for Merril, the most you get is her jumping on the bedspread. Doesn't matter if you think Yuri and Estelle are a match made in heaven, you'll be lucky if a sequel comes out at some point that so much as confirms that they had feelings for each other, or that Yuri had the hots for Judith, or anything of the sort between any member of the party (Karol/Nan is the only 'real' love pairing in the game).

Why do you think this is? Are game developers too afraid to commit a character to a relationship because they fear it might mean the end despite 'missing wife/daughter' being a increasingly common plot-motive in other games? Do they fear that taking the time out from action for romance or a genuine happy-moment might ruin the gameplay? Or do you think it's something else entirely?

[Djeets]

no, the game maker didn't made the game for that purpose

it's all up to the shippers who want they ended up married or not

[Rah]

What leap said. They do it for speculation.

[Nanami Touko]

marriage isn't the end all be all, plenty of couples are fine never getting married

[Snowy_One]

no, the game maker didn't made the game for that purpose

it's all up to the shippers who want they ended up married or not

Sure. But why is it so RARE? Even in epilogue things. Feel free to ship X with Y all you want, lord knows I've shipped Ike and Mia a lot and they don't even have a support together. That doesn't explain why it's so rare in games in general though. Off the top of my head the only games I can think of where the characters get married in either the game or epilogue, regardless of any actual romance, are the FE series and Dragon Age if you follow certain romantic paths. Well, Crusader Kings II as well, but that's... very different.

The only games off the top of my head that had the character married beforehand are Heavy Rain (obvious), FFXII (Ashe is a widow), and Gears of War (Dom's wife or something. I never played them). So why is it so rare?

marriage isn't the end all be all, plenty of couples are fine never getting married

Sure. Mario and Peach, Link and Zelda, and so-forth. I'm certainly not saying 'everyone who shared a romantic scene must be married', but I want to know why, out of the ~400 games I own, I can probably count games where a character either gets married or has marriage as something more than a mere nod on my digits, likely without even resorting to my toes either. Some games get a pass, like I don't expect marriage to be a huge thing in Mario Kart, but other times? Is there some hidden taboo against it?

[Aleph]

Of course there is. People can't have mai waifusu if some asshole pixelated moron goes all Tales of Lloyd on their girlfriend(s) and seduces them with their vapid dual wielding ways.

RISING PHOENIX RISING PHOENIX RISING PHOENIX RISING PHOENIX RISING PHOENIX RISING PHOENIX RISING PHOENIX RISING PHOENIX

Edited December 3, 2013 by Aleph

[Parrhesia]

Many games take place in the middle of a massive, world-changing event. This is not a good time for two people who are usually at the forefront of it to decide to wear giant dresses and have flowers thrown at them.

[Aleph]

hi there



i disagree

[Snowy_One]

Yuna was never married. She got to the alter, yes, but that's as far as it got.

Many games take place in the middle of a massive, world-changing event. This is not a good time for two people who are usually at the forefront of it to decide to wear giant dresses and have flowers thrown at them.

There is a game epilogue you know. Not to mention a wedding doesn't have to be a huge, lavish, affair. But why couldn't we get, say, a short clip at the end of ME3 where Shep and their LI get hitched? Or even something as simple as Liara holding a baby (which would be yours if you romanced her)?

Sides, this is still avoiding the question of why it seems actual marriages in games seem to get skirted around.

[Djeets]

Eh, The only game that o know that ends up with marriage is last story,rune factory, tales of graces also ended up asbel married with cheria,

I don't know more I guess

[Rehab]

I spent a long time writing a post before I realized at least half of it responded to questions and issues you didn't actually pose. You're talking about player characters getting married as part of the story, regardless of player control, I'm assuming?

(the possible answers for that being entirely different, of course, from those for "why don't more games include marriage as a story and/or gameplay feature")

Just for fun (not trying to "add up evidence to test your statement" or anything, just typing to meself), published (non-indie) (nothing against indie games though etc) games (slash game series) I could come up with, mostly offhand, that have marriage as something like a gameplay mechanic in them, not counting FE4 or 13:

-Rune Factory? need to look it up

-Harvest Moon

-The Sims

-Fable

-Skyrim

-Mount and Blade

-Total War

-A bunch of grand strategy games like, as you said, Crusader Kings

I'm also willing to bet it's a mechanic in a bunch of RPGs I'm ignorant of/forgetting, but anyway

I wonder how uncommon having marriage as a feature/choice actually is in terms of hard numbers, counting setups where the player can choose to have characters married as part of the story, and putting everything under that umbrella up against all games released ever, or how common a trend it is in relatively new games. (not just trying to be a total data nerd here, just wondering what portion of games have marriage in some player-determined form as far as the big picture goes)

Edited December 3, 2013 by Rehab

[Tangerine]

The only games off the top of my head that had the character married beforehand are Heavy Rain (obvious), FFXII (Ashe is a widow), and Gears of War (Dom's wife or something. I never played them). So why is it so rare

Play different games I guess? Several Dragon Quest games have marriage in the story, one of which it is an important feature of the game. Almost every Harvest Moon and Rune Factory game has a marriage system, Thousand Arms on the PS1, the Growlanser series and sim-style games too. Lots of strategy games have marriage implemented in some way (Like the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series). .hack//G.U has epilogue marriage for the main + a party member.

Anyway there are a ton of games I could name with marriage themes in them, but only a handful involving the main character. This is for pretty obvious reasons. Most genres just don't lend themselves to the concept, but the ones that do (most notably RPGs) get pigeonholed into specific settings/storytelling if they put any effort into developing the relationship, or have to tack it on. Nobody likes the latter, and the writers may not be interested in the former.

There's also the fact that the videogame is still in its adolescence as a story teller. For every Xenogears there are five "Tales Of". Games in general are only now starting to branch out with what stories they will tell and how, but a lot are still very, very familiar. That's not always bad, but it does help explain the lack of variety among game genres.

[Thor Odinson]

While Assassin's Creed Revelations doesn't show Ezio getting a big-ass fluffy wedding with Sofia in the end, the novelisation covered that, and there's a short movie covering the last few weeks of Ezio's life showing him settled down with Sofia in a Tuscan villa that came with Revelations. Altair's also shown to be married to Maria in Revelations.

IIRC in FF4 Cecil married Rosa in the end? I know they got married, and I do vaguely remember a wedding scene but that's pretty hazy.

Just play different games I suppose?

[Dwalin2010]

I personally would like it to happen more often in games, so it does bring a sense of closure and a happy ending to the story and doesn't leave me wondering whether the characters will stay together or not. This is one of the reasons I like the game Dragon Quest V so much: you can get married halfway through the game, then continue to travel with the wife and later with the children.

[Florete]

On the decline? Was it ever really a big thing?

And is officially calling it "marriage" really such a big deal for a video game couple? As far as I'm concerned, if a video game has a romance/dating side to it and your character can "be with" another, I just consider them married, or at least that they will be after the events of the game are done. It's not always practical to get married in the middle of a war or other dangerous quest.

[Rewjeo]

Is it a question of the character explicitly not getting married, or the games just not bothering to tell you that they did since the game focuses on the plot at hand?

[Snowy_One]

On the decline? Was it ever really a big thing?

And is officially calling it "marriage" really such a big deal for a video game couple? As far as I'm concerned, if a video game has a romance/dating side to it and your character can "be with" another, I just consider them married, or at least that they will be after the events of the game are done. It's not always practical to get married in the middle of a war or other dangerous quest.

It's not so much 'is it a big deal' than 'why is it just fine for me to cheat on my beloved as a male Warden down at the Pearl with a male dwarf dressed in drag, but too much to ask to see my Shepard, who remained loyal to Liara across all three games, get married?'

There's also the fact that the videogame is still in its adolescence as a story teller. For every Xenogears there are five "Tales Of". Games in general are only now starting to branch out with what stories they will tell and how, but a lot are still very, very familiar. That's not always bad, but it does help explain the lack of variety among game genres.

It may also have to do with the fact that a lot of games simply have plots that can be summarized as 'C-movie fodder' at best. RPG's are one of the few that truly break free of it, but they tend to be hyper-linear or too open. OH! Skyrim also allows it, though not with the one girl I was interested in (Serena) and you can't have kids. Anyways, the hyper-linear ones confuse me though as it's not actually more difficult, just a different path. But this is probably the closest thing.

Is it a question of the character explicitly not getting married, or the games just not bothering to tell you that they did since the game focuses on the plot at hand?

Well, both really. I mean, say you beat a game with a clear couple in love. Would it really be so hard to put in a still image and some text saying 'X and Y were soon married. Their love was retold many times in story and legend. Their first baby is on the way. X wanted to name the child 'Z' and Y decided it was best if she named the kid as a result.'

[Tangerine]

It may also have to do with the fact that a lot of games simply have plots that can be summarized as 'C-movie fodder' at best. RPG's are one of the few that truly break free of it, but they tend to be hyper-linear or too open. OH! Skyrim also allows it, though not with the one girl I was interested in (Serena) and you can't have kids. Anyways, the hyper-linear ones confuse me though as it's not actually more difficult, just a different path. But this is probably the closest thing.

I disagree, to be honest. The RPG genre is probably the biggest offender, JRPGs in particular. Like I said, for every genuinely progressive and intellectual story like Xenogears there are a ton of dumbsmart games like the Tales Of series. And I'm saying this as a big fan of the genre, lol.

Anyway, while RPGs usually have "romance" elements, they are executed so insincerely and haphazardly that they often serve to detract from the experience of the game. The Persona series is probably the best modern example of this.

As for how the "amount" of plot or linearity factor in to having a good story, Journey is an absolutely beautiful and emotional game, yet it's maybe 3 hours long, very linear and barely has a script. It's probably my favorite game of the entire generation.

Also are you sure this belongs in SD? Wouldn't you say it's more fitting for the Other Games section?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Tangerine

[Esau of Isaac]

Many games take place in the middle of a massive, world-changing event. This is not a good time for two people who are usually at the forefront of it to decide to wear giant dresses and have flowers thrown at them.

Not that it disagrees massively with what you said, but I was reminded of it immediately. Such a nostalgia bomb. It was a huge disappointment in terms of the promises given, but still, it was a magical game.

I disagree, to be honest. The RPG genre is probably the biggest offender, JRPGs in particular. Like I said, for every genuinely progressive and intellectual story like Xenogears there are a ton of dumbsmart games like the Tales Of series. And I'm saying this as a big fan of the genre, lol.

As a fan of Xenogears and one who generally dislikes the Tales of series, Xenogears isn't much of a progressive and intellectual story. I mean it's a bit dark and some of the twists are interesting but it doesn't tackle anything unsafe to the genre or turn anything on its head. And having a bizarre plot that challenges boundaries doesn't really ensure a good game. Drakengard had a neat series of concepts but the actual game was staid to the extreme. I have yet to play Nier but I have a feeling it is much similar in that regard.

As for your accusation that they detract from the experience of the game, using the Persona series as an example is a poor choice given that potential romance is one of the main draws of the social portion of the titles. It's not a very deep mechanic but it's not meant to be, and it couldn't possibly be very deep given the constraints on game development and the involvement of the player in the first place.

[Tangerine]

As a fan of Xenogears and one who generally dislikes the Tales of series, Xenogears isn't much of a progressive and intellectual story. I mean it's a bit dark and some of the twists are interesting but it doesn't tackle anything unsafe to the genre or turn anything on its head. And having a bizarre plot that challenges boundaries doesn't really ensure a good game. Drakengard had a neat series of concepts but the actual game was staid to the extreme. I have yet to play Nier but I have a feeling it is much similar in that regard.

As for your accusation that they detract from the experience of the game, using the Persona series as an example is a poor choice given that potential romance is one of the main draws of the social portion of the titles. It's not a very deep mechanic but it's not meant to be, and it couldn't possibly be very deep given the constraints on game development and the involvement of the player in the first place.

Xenogears most certainly was, for a game released in '98, a very different experience that took a lot of risks in the subjects it covered in its story. It almost didn't even get released in the US because of it. The game has its problems and I wasn't claiming it was the best game in the genre, only that it was an example of a game that took the genre seriously and approached its storytelling capabilities intelligently.

The fact that it is one of the main draws is the reason it's a problem, it was the perfect example of a game series with romance options that are insincere, poorly implemented and unable to be taken seriously. It feels tacked on and emotionless.

Frankly I'm not mean enough to point out the type of person the romance (again, for lack of a better word) in the modern Persona games appeals to, but I know that it was intended because there is an audience for it. That doesn't excuse it from being shallow however.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Tangerine

[eclipse]

The Agarest War series shoves marriage down your throat. The main character in the first gen is getting married, and there's no dodging it!

[Raven]

Fucking Johnny and Meryl.

[Florete]

It's not so much 'is it a big deal' than 'why is it just fine for me to cheat on my beloved as a male Warden down at the Pearl with a male dwarf dressed in drag, but too much to ask to see my Shepard, who remained loyal to Liara across all three games, get married?'

Calling it "marriage" would not necessarily prevent you from doing these things.

I mean hell, you can get a threesome in Dragon Age.

It may also have to do with the fact that a lot of games simply have plots that can be summarized as 'C-movie fodder' at best. RPG's are one of the few that truly break free of it, but they tend to be hyper-linear or too open. OH! Skyrim also allows it, though not with the one girl I was interested in (Serena) and you can't have kids. Anyways, the hyper-linear ones confuse me though as it's not actually more difficult, just a different path. But this is probably the closest thing.

You can adopt kids in Skyrim.

But despite the fact that it's marriage in Skyrim, that game probably has the worst romance ever. You can literally propose to a person and get them to accept the first time you meet them.

[Shin]

Fucking Johnny and Meryl.

Don't forget the Colonel and Rose! I never liked Raiden anyway!

[Rah]

Some of y'all have some narrow views on relationships and marriage. Two people in a relationship does not mean that they will get married. Two people who have a connection and are "perfect" for each other does not mean it will end in marriage. Someone stated this one already, but I will as well. Two people who took part in a world changing event does not mean they will get married. This one especially. During exciting moments, people's emotions flare and are more likely to be impulsive and have relations with other people. I could easily understand two characters who were together during the game, and after the game's events they decided to go their separate ways. Relationships are complicated.