Inception Mafia

[Grace]

anyway i'm off for a bit: going to go stream fe6

[j00]

I want to say j00 is town off claim because Paper hates scum ascetics lmao. why mention the "something" though instead of letting scum just think you're asectic

never actually played a game with ascetic so I dunno how the exact mechanics of the role usually works, but I know the specifics of my role

I'm, like, some weird watcher variant

Like, it sounds as if you guys all get informed of who my target is or something like that. I'm not 100% sure what the second part means, but yeah I'm pretty sure I'm a watcher/follower.

ok I know I said I'm all for claiming negative roles and all but why would you out this

[MRDRHAWK]

Because I always suck ass as a watcher and I'm pretty sure the second half kills my anonymity anyway

[Strege]

Oh wow I went away without realizing I had forgotten to vote. Was going to

##Vote: Strege

and his last post is a bit better but not enough to change that. The difference between "likely scum candidate" and "scum candidate" is, to me, not even noteworthy that early in the game, and if anything "likely scum candidate" is stronger than "scum candidate", which would invalidate that point.

That's exactly what I am saying. The discussion based on "scum candidate" degenerated into discussion of possibility and obscured the reason why Manix reacted as he did to Prims's comment, whether or not that was correct of him.

Um Polyclaim okay. Why claim now? Why not before?

We're in consolidation mode for sure because of activity. I reread Quote and am currently rereading Prims and would not like to vote either of them right now.

[j00]

if we're not finding out before next phase anyway why say this now

like apparently we all get results on you targeting someone, basically confirming your role next phase, why tell us this now giving mafia a chance to redirect you from themselves or whatever

it's not helping at all

[Prims]

I think Grass is mafia 8)

[MRDRHAWK]

Um Polyclaim okay. Why claim now? Why not before?

paranoia that my past wagon would be rebooted, prolly

[Prims]

I also think Refa is mafia 8) I hadn't really remembered much of what he'd done so I took another look at his posts, and:

Also I don't see why he'd go through the trouble of making a big case on Parrhesia just not to vote him as scum (well maybe if they were scumbuddies, but I'm certainly not getting that impression lol).

The obvious answer is "to look like he's scumhunting" when he isn't, but that aside: Refa's vote was on Shinori before this, when the case on Shinori involved Shinori talking a bunch of shit about people only to not vote them. Why is this a towntell when Rein does it but a scumtell when Shinori does it? This seems like a very forced defense of Rein, like from scum who said they thought a player was town without having a real thought process behind it. Also Rein's case on Parrhesia was not big at all which makes me wonder if Refa was even reading Rein's posts.

Other than that he pretty much Hasn't Done Anything and also made an empty unvote smh.

[Prims]

I'm just gonna be real and say that if the Via wagon was going to happen there'd have been more than 3 people taking issue with them by now (not to mention other people being totally unwilling to jump). So yeah j00 and SB should consolidate elsewhere. I also don't really think they're scum after reconsidering their responses to me, although their play is very frustrating to say the least. Parrhesia is also probably not getting lynched, and Objection only is if we turbo him last minute.

[riariadne]

Why was Manix still the scummiest to you at that time? He had said a lot of other stuff since the ED1 case and there had been other people talking about other things to you just sorta let it all slide to talk about people mad at you.

i already said that other things manix had said were bothering me too. stuff like this and other shit felt like overreacting to irrelevant things that were easy to do and i didn't like it

Rein seems really detached to me this game, I'm willing to switch to him if nobody wants to lynch Via.

You don't seem to care about your reads. Please care about your reads if you are town.

what the fuck does this mean

do you want me to push harder? is it a tone thing? I am trying really hard not to sound as pissed as I am right now but vague bullshit like this doesn't help at all. if it is a post more thing that's probably not that realistic

i don't like how you're just over the Via wagon either after pushing for a pretty long time and seeming fairly confident in your read for that time too but now that it doesn't seem like it'll happen it's no longer a thing

poly claim doesn't make any sense. if you were going to do this why wouldn't you either wait until tomorrow or do so at the beginning of the day

way too mad to respond to more right now. i might be better before i go to sleep and i'll be on before phase end

[Prims]

tbh I was wavering on my Via read for a while but didn't really say anything about it because I wanted to be right. Oh well.

Eh, I missed that you lost your post so actually the tone stuff I was picking up seems understandable if you were reconstructing it (but in the future, write posts up in wordpad or something). I'm pretty much at a loss for what to do here right now. Most of my stronger scumreads (which are admiteddly still pretty weak) aren't viable wagons and I don't see them becoming popular last minute.

##Unvote

##Vote: Objection

Going with this cuz he has yet to justify his weak push on Parrhesia that people questioned him about, and also lol lurkers.

[Prims]

In all honesty I think we should lynch a scummy inactive player along the lines of Refa, Grassbrdiger, Objection etc to save ourselves the lategame headache instead of a guy who's been posting and defending a lot (read: a townie digging himself a hole by giving people attacking him more to work with). If I could lynch anybody I would lynch Refa but there doesn't seem to be any interest there and he is probably working on a post right now. :X

Sorry for being so useless this game. Ugh.

[MRDRHAWK]

eh I'm good with that; tbh I figure Objection's prolly scum anyway and just doesn't know how to play scum very well

##Unvote

##Vote: Objection

[euklyd]

Ugh so I just got back from judging that tournament of mice (which was pretty cool and all but also draining as fuck) and I've finished a quick read of the loads and loads of activity (whyyyyy) and I don't really feel up to making any cases or doing analysis right now.

Totally wiped right now, sorry.

I mean the things that stood out to me are Objection seems lazy (to the point of scumminess) in his reads/whatnot and I'd be cool with an Objection lynch.

And then the other thing (which is totally random) is that Grass was doing his while semantics thing. I don't know what that means, since I don't remember enough of his games. I guess it means he's Grass.

Also since Strege was wanting me to prove my role I'll try to consolidate on someone if needed.

@Paperblade/BBM - When does phase end?

[Paperblade]

about 14 hours

[Strege]

Prims, why do you think Eurykins is town?

[BBM]

Votals

Rein (2): kirsche, Shinori
Eurykins (3): Manix, Strege, Rein
Levity (2): SB, j00
Manix (1): Eurykins
Prims (2): Levity, Euklyd
Parrhesia (1): Objection
Objection (3): scorri, Prims, Polydeuces

Strege (1): Grassbridger

Not Voting (3): Kay, Parrhesia, Refa

10 to lynch, Countdown

[Prims]

Prims, why do you think Eurykins is town?

Her posts have effort and emotion in them (the emotion mostly being in her responses to Manix, especially the defensive breadcrumb). I recall her being very lackadaisical and indifferent as scum.

I also just don't see much scum intent in her posts. She's essentially the best example this game of somebody who feels like a townie digging their own grave by giving their attackers more to work with.

[Grassbridger]

Are you reading the thread? Sorry but I've explained this over and over.

My claims of a reaction test COULD NOT HAVE BEEN BACKTRACKING BECAUSE THERE WAS NO WAY FOR ME TO JUSTIFY MY BIZZ SCUMREAD AS A SERIOUS VOTE. Do you seriously think I went "hmmm this guy who didn't post anything serious yet is obviously scum" as Mafia with the intent of lynching them off of nothing?

[...]

Grass why is Strege the scummiest player for some semantics argument (which town can make) despite the actual content he's been putting out? How does this case even flow logically in terms of "Strege is mafia"? What the actual fuck?

WRT the whole "likely scum candidate" thing: I don't fully believe claims of "it was a reaction test" for things that could be anything else. "It was a reaction test" can always be a post-hoc explanation for scum to bail out of a poor read.

I found Strege scummy for (besides a tone-weird RVS post): 1. saying that an argument was pointless and unproductive and then 2. continuing it, with, btw, an argument that doesn't even make sense, in the same breath. Flows pretty logically to me. Although now that I think about it, "continuing the argument" is a nulltell from Strege from what I can recall. And you raise a good point about his body of townie content; when I'm reading the whole thread at once, looking for things that ping as scummy, I'm more inclined to miss "pattern of townish content" things.

(1) Grass bugs me though because you know he's going to be voting me at deadline for the same shit I've already explained 500 times; (2) the Strege case is weak and not going to turn into a wagon (3) but hey if he makes that vote now he doesn't have to look like he's wagon hopping.

[...]

(4) Cut: OK dude but I'm town and if you think I'm scum and you're town then you're dumb peace

I fucking hate this post. Every bit of it I quoted.

(1) Well I haven't even gotten on to see/respond to your case, so this just sounds whiny/ATEish. Also sounds like preemptive OMGUS: "Grass bugs me because you know he's going to be voting me at deadline"

(2) I just read the whole fucking thread and am voting my top scumread so fuck off

(3) I don't even know what it means but you're already assuming that I'm scum if your case is based on a wagon-hopping argument. idk what you even mean though since if scum!me wanted to avoid wagon hopping, he'd just vote you (a wagon) in the first place

(4) I really, really hate this line. It's nothing but condescending BS. People aren't dumb for thinking ANYONE is scum D1. There is nothing you can say after the fact ("it was a joke", e.g.) that will make me see this as anything but condescending BS. If it's a joke, it's still condescending BS.

In all honesty I think we should lynch a scummy inactive player along the lines of Refa, Grassbrdiger, Objection etc to save ourselves the lategame headache instead of a guy who's been posting and defending a lot (read: a townie digging himself a hole by giving people attacking him more to work with). If I could lynch anybody I would lynch Refa but there doesn't seem to be any interest there and he is probably working on a post right now. :X

Sorry for being so useless this game. Ugh.

So why am I scummy again? Besides inactivity, which I plan to fix. All I see right now is "weak Strege case".

Last sentence is blatant ATE.

##Unvote because Prims made a good case for why Strege isn't scum (which is his good contribution apart from the two posts I picked out)

##Vote: Prims semi-policy vote due to ATE and condescending BS. Will decide before I sleep tonight (next 2-3 hours) if it's a real vote or not.

Side note: not really interested in an Objection lynch since he feels like an easy D1 target, for not much more than lack of activity. (I'm not really seeing his posts as scummy.) Would lynch Prims, Parrhesia, Shinori, maybe Strege, maybe Poly. (Completely forgot to mention, but Poly's stuff has been pretty weird, including his claim, and I don't like it.) That's not exactly an ordered list.

[Strege]

@kirsche: The condescension was the extension of a joke/troll from earlier in the thread. See this post (ctrl-f "dumb"). When you next get a chance could you please elaborate on your Shinori and Poly reads?

If I seem like I'm lurking it's because I totally am, so I'll duck out now. I'll be asleep for most of consolidation and I don't know what to do besides what I've already put down. glhf

[Prims]

If I had made a weak case for Via being scum then said "whoops I was just reaction testing", that's suspicious as hell. I did not have a case. Ockham's Razor applies here, context lends credence to my claims that I just wanted to see what they'd say.

Yep I think being facetiously condescending is funny, what are you're gonna do about it? 8) If anything it's a town-tell because I don't care about how people perceive me.

Policy votes are for people who want to mislynch townies and get away with it on "but it was a policy, it's their fault, not mine!" when called out later. Parrhesia and I are just as easy of target as Objection at this point seeing as Parr hasn't really done much in accordance of his playstyle and nobody has an issue with the scrubs who are just handwaving anything I say in my own defense, so dismissing the Objection lynch because it's "easy" is hella bad, especially when just because it's "easy" doesn't mean his scum play comes from town. Also it's weird how pissed you are about me finding you suspicious; I mean in response to the emotional / condescending stuff I can understand but finding other players scummy is part of mafia and it's especially not worth getting worked up over if you think I'm scum.

[Prims]

@kirsche: The condescension was the extension of a joke/troll from earlier in the thread. See this post (ctrl-f "dumb").

This is also true even if Grassbridger as a name is at least 6 letters away from "kirsche". Had assumed you realized that when posting but IDK.

[Kay]

UPDATE: RVS is utter wank

cheers op 10/10

what happened to the theory shit on whether day one lynching was worth it or not, it was all anyone talked about back in my day aka fucken three years ago

Proto isn't playing anymore, so he's not advocating D1 NLs anymore, and no one else has started?

This whole thing where you and Manix are being all buddy buddy should stop like right now. There is absolutely no reason for you guys to seem so buddy buddy and defensive of each other and it's poor. Manix defended you and you are defending Manix. Why do you guys seem to think each other is like definite town.

This doesn't necessarily have to be gameplay-related at all, Shinori, they're just being Bizz and Manix.

and outright forgetting they made a RVS post is pretty awkward.

Not imo, why would you remember your RVS posts?

My accusation against Via can't actually be pushed as padding or backtracking without stretching reality, though.

It can't be backtracking because what was I going to say was scummy about them given that they had no content?

It can't be padding because there was no actual case. Saying "I think X is Y" doesn't satisfy other players so I'm not making my post look better by adding that.

So how does that make me scum and not town who wanted a reaction from another player but went about it poorly (in your opinion)?

All Prims's other bad posts have been covered, but I hadn't seen anything about this one. Looks kinda... The argument is bugging me. It's like "You can't make that specific argument for why I was scummy, ha, you've got nothing to catch me with." But this is mostly just gut with enough other stuff to back it up, I don't know if that really makes sense.

If he's not posting at all now we can't reasonably expect him to suddenly burst into activity later, can we? I'm following an established convention.

What the fuck ever, I'll ##Unvote since it's apparently that controversial.

It used to be an established convention. Now it's not. Also, the bigger reason (imo) for that changing is because with the lynch-inactives policy, scum can vote an inactive guy, the inactive guy says nothing, no one else says much because it's normal and better him than me, and scum gets to not vote anyone controversial. An active guy could say some townish stuff, claim, argue back, etc, and if he was mislynched, there's an expectation that people might have realized he was town. With an inactive guy, they did nothing to look good or bad, it's just "that guy isn't posting" *lynch* "oh well", so no one's called out on it, while scum still benefit from the mislynch.

(btw unvoting is bad too)

Why is the only other person voting your #1 suspect pinging you when most of their content is about voting your #1 suspect?

Can't tell if grasping or bad reaction test. If someone makes a really scummy argument for lynching someone I'm suspicious of, it's still a really scummy argument. And you know this.

Objection's OMGUS is pretty bad.

basically if everybody played like you're doing right now then if scum found the cop town would have no chance of winning whatsoever

scumhunting is always going to be valid, people post differently when they're mafia from when they're town because they have a different win condition and different intent. it is literally not possible to doctor your post to the extent it's the exact same thing you'd post as town as long as you've read your role PM and know who your scumbuddies are. granted it sucks on day 1 when there aren't any dead guys to see how people interacted with, but that doesn't excuse waiting on a cop to solve the game for you

Uhhhh, where did Furet say scumhunting didn't work? He said, basically, there's not enough info on D1 to scumhunt well. I don't recall him mentioning that being because of no night action results. Nice strawman.

(btw at that point in sfmafia history people definitely did not just rely on roles)

Yep I think being facetiously condescending is funny, what are you're gonna do about it? 8) If anything it's a town-tell because I don't care about how people perceive me.

Calling it a towntell that you're annoying people is not good in so many ways.

Furet is obvtown imo.

##Vote: Prims

[Prims]

Kay are you scum. You made a post like that when you were scum once.

[Prims]

oh cool that game was one where I did the exact same thing to Levity that I did here lmao

Kay voting me but not totally being able explain why I'm mafia even though I totally am is a maftell for her. via tier scumhunting