Encounter Mafia (!)

[eclipse]

You were roleblocked N4, thanks to Kay's final message.

But yeah, do NOT go doing shit like outing other people's roles, or tunneling stupidly hard when it's clear that people with more information than you don't agree. Both are great ways to make yourself look like scum (especially since refusing to hand over information to someone who's unverified is a common sense tell, not a scumtell).

[MancerNecro]

I was a vanilla at that point in time so..... I didn't actually have any actions at all.

[MancerNecro]

You were roleblocked N4, thanks to Kay's final message.But yeah, do NOT go doing shit like outing other people's roles, or tunneling stupidly hard when it's clear that people with more information than you don't agree. Both are great ways to make yourself look like scum (especially since refusing to hand over information to someone who's unverified is a common sense tell, not a scumtell).

Okay, sorry... That was my bad...

[Blitz]

I wasn't paying attention to the game and thread at all past a certain point. It was so hard to deal with all the information going through the game and thread and I keep forgetting to read the thread before replying to PMs and Skype messages.

I did not get roleblocked? Not as far as I remember anyway.

for the last time, READ THE THREAD PROPERLY!!! (screwing up some info or other is fine, but not skimming the thread including the important information, you were far behind info because you didn't read the thread peoperly)

aaaand you were using my case, without even properly reading what my case was

also, regarding the Keys, if I knew there were 2 scum teams and I happened to be in one of them with a key, I would definitely assume the other scum team is also holding a key, therefore, there is a 2/3 chance outing the keys will out me. What I would have done, is either wait till D2 and say someone dropped the Key to me or actually drop the Key onto someone else, other than the guy looking for the Keys (the person would be some random person, so, that the person looking for the Keys can think that the random person is faking it.)

[eclipse]

Now, for a real life example. . .

Let's say that you got a phone call, stating that you owed some money to someone. You don't remember borrowing any money. Do you:

A. Ask for more information

B. Hand over your financial information

C. Tell the person on the other end where they can shove the phone call

Apply this to mafia, and your answer had better not be B.

[euklyd]

You were roleblocked N4, thanks to Kay's final message.

But yeah, do NOT go doing shit like outing other people's roles, or tunneling stupidly hard when it's clear that people with more information than you don't agree. Both are great ways to make yourself look like scum (especially since refusing to hand over information to someone who's unverified is a common sense tell, not a scumtell).

idk about Kay's message, but afaik people weren't saying "wow look at Mancer's D1 play he's so scum" and more "Mancer is probably scum because idk what he's done that's been townie and PoE is a bitch"

I was a vanilla at that point in time so..... I didn't actually have any actions at all.

the entire point was that were you not a vanilla and were taking the kill or something you'd have been caught red-handed

I actually don't know the extent of Vhaltz' plans because apparently he thinks I'm badass enough scum to conceivably go and wreck the other team and then I don't even know what my plan would've been after that

(if I wanted to coast to endgame it would've been better to bus one of my buddies as well)

and so because of this suspicion I wasn't told half the stuff that was going on

[euklyd]

also, regarding the Keys, if I knew there were 2 scum teams and I happened to be in one of them with a key, I would definitely assume the other scum team is also holding a key, therefore, there is a 2/3 chance outing the keys will out me. What I would have done, is either wait till D2 and say someone dropped the Key to me or actually drop the Key onto someone else, other than the guy looking for the Keys (the person would be some random person, so, that the person looking for the Keys can think that the random person is faking it.)

still think this was bad logic

assuming symmetry seems kind of questionable

(also if I were a random person and a key dropped into my lap I'd have contacted you over IRC and said "hey guess what a gift dropped into my lap I'll drop you a key tonight")

[MancerNecro]

I think it is unfair that jalmont got lynched over the key shenanigans. The keys should have been dropped randomly or Blitz's role PM should have included the fact that the keys' distribution is random. We got off a free lynch due to that. I think town got this game a little too easily (what with all the turbo lynching happening).

[Refa]

I didn't lynch jalmont over key distribution, I lynched him because he claimed a role that was strictly better than my own.

[Refa]

Also I was sad that neither Blitz nor I died. If Blitz died, I would've linked...

[spoiler=Fox. Die.]

And if I had died, then...

[spoiler=Time Paradox!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APH1LIJaq7A

Unfortunately, neither of those came to pass. Oh well.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Refa

[riariadne]

Key distribution was not random...

That said I don't think assuming symmetry was safe either.

[Grace]

rein do you ever sleep.

like srs

re keys: imo a 2/1 town scum split would have been hilarious.

[Blitz]

still think this was bad logic

assuming symmetry seems kind of questionable

(also if I were a random person and a key dropped into my lap I'd have contacted you over IRC and said "hey guess what a gift dropped into my lap I'll drop you a key tonight")

better safe than sorry IMO, Rein

and, if I passed the Keys, the Key couldn't be linked to me and if by some chance it could, I would either claim I was trying to see if the person I was giving it to would claim it or not, or I thought that person was gonna die and maybe we could find the Key. Basically, some BS to live another phase, cause I would be caught, lol

EDIT: my role needed to lynch to get Keys, so, it was a safe bet on my part to assume I needed to lynch scum to get Keys

Edited October 30, 2014 by Blitz

[MancerNecro]

Key distribution was not random...

That said I don't think assuming symmetry was safe either.

That's the problem, the scum teams outting that they had the keys screwed them over.

[euklyd]

I think it is unfair that jalmont got lynched over the key shenanigans. The keys should have been dropped randomly or Blitz's role PM should have included the fact that the keys' distribution is random. We got off a free lynch due to that. I think town got this game a little too easily (what with all the turbo lynching happening).

as Refa said, a large part of Jalmont getting lynched was HOLY SHIT that's a lot of claimed info, cop is kind of super powerful, and iirc his choice of targets was off as well

(and as much as I gave him grief about not being on IRC that didn't actually factor into me voting for him beyond him not talking to me over OC and attempting to convince me he was town)

[euklyd]

the best part was that two of the claimed info turned out to be scum after all

[riariadne]

rein do you ever sleep.

like srs

sometimes you freak out and wake up at 4 AM and post in mafia when you can't fall asleep

[euklyd]

the best part was that two of the claimed info turned out to be scum after all

two besides Jalmont that is

SB + Jalmont + Walrein

[Mitsuki]

I definitely like OC more than NOC. I just wish I could have had more time to play...

I love how Vhaltz kept talking of me as if I were confirmed town when I was doing nothing. It'd have been awesome if I rolled scum.

I kept thinking Mancer was town until he told Vhaltz that Kay would make a nice kill because of her role... and then Kay died. I reluctantly redirected Mancer to Xinnidy on N3, but I when my other suggested choices were basically Xinnidy, Walrein or SB (I think Xinnidy and SB were being blocked or something though?, and Refa was getting some result on Walrein thanks to his role). MANCER, WHY ARE YOU SO SCUMMY

also I hate you all because I couldn't have irl OC in the end

not really, but it'd have been awesome. SIGH

[Mitsuki]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1enLYQQhHnU2ruf_tdLTz3LKkyhv7XJMZVACPa5iTKlc/edit#gid=0

also, that was the spreadsheet Vhaltz and I made, scroll down a bit

there's some shit written in Spanish but whatever

Edited October 30, 2014 by Mitsuki

[Refa]

AND BY NOVEL I MEAN GIRLFRIEND

EDIT Spreadsheet

Edited October 30, 2014 by Refa

[MancerNecro]

I was referring to Euklyd. I never said Kay was a nice kill because of her role =.=...

EDIT: Wtf, I didn't actually even know Kay's role until she flipped.

Edited October 30, 2014 by MancerNecro

[Dorian]

I claim Übermensch!

No honestly, I sucked at scum hunting this game but I guess that my little scheme here made up for that.^^

[spoiler=I love it when a plan comes together]

[22.10.2014 19:12:33] Dorian: Well, I guess that you like my “little gift”.^^ And I'm most curious about how you intent to use it.

[22.10.2014 19:13:42] Vhaltz: yeah I was gonna contact you about it, I was just chatting with SB first and he left for dinner literally 3 minutes ago

[22.10.2014 19:14:12] Vhaltz: first of all is how many shots o this did you have?

[22.10.2014 19:15:41] Dorian: I had two, now you have one and I got one left too.

[22.10.2014 19:15:49] Vhaltz: ok great

[22.10.2014 19:16:31] Vhaltz: I was just checking since pretty much all roles with grenades that I know of started with 2 items

[22.10.2014 19:17:19] Vhaltz: as for how I'll use it I still don't know

[22.10.2014 19:18:02] Vhaltz: I was thinking that using it on blitz is probably a good idea, since there's a kill left unaccounted for from N1

[22.10.2014 19:18:23] Vhaltz: there was infiltrator's kill, US gov kill and BBM's vengekill after dying

[22.10.2014 19:18:41] Vhaltz: so I'm inclined to believe that Blitz getting hit and him having a BPV is true

[22.10.2014 19:19:11] Vhaltz: specially since I don't think there's other docs other than your grenades, and you say you still have the other grenade left unused

[22.10.2014 19:19:50] Vhaltz: I haven't decided yet though, I need to talk to people and see who people might kill

[22.10.2014 19:21:29] Dorian: Blitz was an option I considered myself, Euklyd could be another option.

[22.10.2014 19:22:20] Vhaltz: I didn't consider Euklyd initially because Blitz was suspecting him over some stuff (he could still technically be an infiltrator)

[22.10.2014 19:22:47] Vhaltz: but apparently that no longer applies? he just messaged me and told me that he doesn't think Euklyd is likely to be scum anymore

[22.10.2014 19:23:05] Dorian: Well, on that matter:

[22.10.2014 19:25:01] Dorian: "Blitz: btw, what did you thinkl of Euklyd (before you leave)

Dorian: I did had him on my list last night, so I didn't talked with him but I think the way he hanled Proto was town.

Dorian: It caused just too much attention for a gambit and/or busing.

Blitz: I see, I kinda dunno, I mean, he could be from the other faction or something and decide to get towncred on Proto

Blitz: cause of some scan

Blitz: it could be because I think very highly of Euklyd is a player though

Blitz: as a player*

Dorian: I think towncred is a double-edged sword in a game with two scum teams.

Blitz: true

Dorian: You don't want to end up on the black list of the other team, especially not that early in the game.

Blitz: yeah, good point"

[22.10.2014 19:27:13] Vhaltz: yeah, I second that as a good point

[22.10.2014 19:27:30] Vhaltz: I hadn't thought of attention seeking meaning dying as the other team's target

[22.10.2014 19:27:43] Vhaltz: well I mean I had but just not related to that scenario fsr

[22.10.2014 19:31:33] Dorian: I guess it's a bit too early to say for sure but I think that we should stay with those two for now.

[22.10.2014 19:32:02] Vhaltz: with Euk and Blitz?

[22.10.2014 19:34:36] Dorian: Indeed, I mean, unless we get a revelation tonight that suggests something else but I think that's kinda unlikely.

[22.10.2014 19:40:10] Dorian: By the way, have you told Mitsuki about that or anyone else?

[22.10.2014 19:41:30] Vhaltz: about the doc?

[22.10.2014 19:41:39] Vhaltz: Mitsuki knows it

[22.10.2014 19:41:57] Vhaltz: and Blitz knows I have a doc shot

[22.10.2014 19:42:38] Dorian: Interesting.

...

[23.10.2014 18:28:26] Dorian: Just wondering, have you told anyone about our plan?

[23.10.2014 18:28:43] Vhaltz: nope

[23.10.2014 18:28:54] Vhaltz: I've only told Blitz that I have a doc shot and that I will probably use it on him

[23.10.2014 18:29:31] Vhaltz: ...wait

[23.10.2014 18:30:05] Vhaltz: I also told him that I got it from you

[23.10.2014 18:30:17] Vhaltz: since I was really really certain that he was town at the time

[23.10.2014 18:31:34] Vhaltz: I told him not to tell anybody at all about the doc though

[23.10.2014 18:31:53] Dorian: If that's the case then he didn't mentioned that to me.

[23.10.2014 18:31:55] Vhaltz: since doc info is really the very last thing that you want to leak to scum

[23.10.2014 18:32:23] Vhaltz: well I don't recall if I outright told him I got it from you or if I just implied that I did

[23.10.2014 18:32:36] Vhaltz: since I did say something like having to talk about the item with you

[23.10.2014 18:32:52] Vhaltz: cause at the time I didn't know why you decided to give it to me

[23.10.2014 18:34:31] Dorian: Well, how about that.

[23.10.2014 18:37:19] Dorian: You could go and confirm that you protect him and maybe that I will protect Euklyd too. And then we do it the other way around.

[23.10.2014 18:38:07] Vhaltz: yeah that works

[23.10.2014 18:43:01] Dorian: I guess scum Blitz could get around it by just killing someone else, but well, it's not as if we had a better idea so far.^^;

[23.10.2014 18:44:32] Dorian: I'll have my dinner now, BRB.

[23.10.2014 18:45:37] Vhaltz: ok I told him

[23.10.2014 18:45:50] Vhaltz: and yeah either way it's good enough to avoid Euk dying

[23.10.2014 19:00:11] Dorian: It's also better if you stay with the "official" version if you want to tell it anyone else, Mitzuki included.

[23.10.2014 19:00:26] Vhaltz: sure

[24.10.2014 10:41:42] Dorian: Are you there?

[24.10.2014 10:41:59] Vhaltz: yeah

[24.10.2014 10:42:04] Vhaltz: I'm talking to euk

[24.10.2014 10:43:07] Dorian: There was only one kill last night, so I guess our plan worked.

[24.10.2014 10:43:40] Vhaltz: yep, I'm pretty certain it was euk who they tried to kill

[24.10.2014 10:43:47] Vhaltz: because other stuff happened to blitz

[24.10.2014 10:44:20] Dorian: And when I got an answer from Rein then I can tell for sure.

[24.10.2014 10:44:37] Dorian: And what happened?

[24.10.2014 10:46:06] Vhaltz: I don't know if i can say, I haven't talked to blitz on IRC, I just got a PM from him telling me what happened

[24.10.2014 10:46:21] Vhaltz: I haven't told euk either

[24.10.2014 10:46:37] Vhaltz: but yeah it's something that makes it likely that scum weren't planning to kill him tonight

[24.10.2014 10:47:05] Vhaltz: although he could've had that happen from one scumteam and then get shot by the other if they're uncoordinated

[24.10.2014 10:47:39] Vhaltz: regardless, it's pretty certain that both blitz and euk are town

[24.10.2014 10:48:12] Dorian: I can assure you that it was most likely Euklyd that night.

[24.10.2014 10:48:42] Vhaltz: hm?

[24.10.2014 10:49:01] Dorian: Who they tryed to kill, that's what I meant.

[24.10.2014 10:49:09] Vhaltz: yeah I got that but

[24.10.2014 10:49:14] Vhaltz: how are you so sure?

[24.10.2014 10:49:29] Vhaltz: I mean I already guessed he was the most likely target

[24.10.2014 10:49:44] Vhaltz: but there's a difference between a guess and being sure :V

[24.10.2014 10:52:19] Dorian: Well, long story short I fall asleep as I was talking with Xinnidy, which was before I confimed my night action to the mod so I guess I idled last night.^^;;

[24.10.2014 10:53:00] Vhaltz: amazing

[24.10.2014 10:53:53] Vhaltz: well, do confirm with rein whether or not you still have your grenade

[24.10.2014 10:54:14] Vhaltz: cause that'd mean very interesting things

[24.10.2014 10:54:28] Vhaltz: like, if blitz told refa that I was doccing him, it might explain the rapier kill

[24.10.2014 10:55:42] Dorian: I was thinking that this means our plan leached ou somehow.

[24.10.2014 10:56:01] Vhaltz: well, we did stop one kill

[24.10.2014 10:56:08] Vhaltz: so only one scumteam would've known, in any case

[24.10.2014 10:56:29] Dorian: It would be good if we keep the to us till we know more.

[24.10.2014 10:57:27] Dorian: And I need another coffee.^^;

...

[26.10.2014 14:50:37] Vhaltz: I'll probably be coordinating night actions with Blitz in around uh

[26.10.2014 14:50:40] Vhaltz: 3~ hours or so

[26.10.2014 14:51:02] Dorian: Sounds good^^

[26.10.2014 20:15:23] Dorian: Still busy?

[26.10.2014 20:16:33] Vhaltz: sort of, I'm telling Mitsuki about the plans we have for tonight

[26.10.2014 20:16:43] Vhaltz: on voice chat and such

[26.10.2014 20:24:57] Vhaltz: ok she's gone for a few minutes

[26.10.2014 20:25:03] Vhaltz: uh

[26.10.2014 20:25:12] Vhaltz: doc target for tonight is probably Euk or me

[26.10.2014 20:25:33] Vhaltz: blitz would be the other option but he's just telling people that he's getting protected

[26.10.2014 20:25:44] Vhaltz: so he won't be shot unless they see through the plan

[26.10.2014 20:25:58] Vhaltz: I normally wouldn't be on the list but I fucked up

[26.10.2014 20:26:09] Dorian: I see

[26.10.2014 20:26:12] Vhaltz: and talked on the EM mafia chat about my item

[26.10.2014 20:26:22] Vhaltz: I know at least xinny saw it

[26.10.2014 20:26:33] Vhaltz: and it also implied that I was helping euk/refa/blitz coordinate so

[26.10.2014 20:26:37] Vhaltz: it kinda sucks =/

[26.10.2014 20:27:35] Vhaltz: if everything goes according to plan

[26.10.2014 20:27:39] Vhaltz: two scum might die this night phase

[26.10.2014 20:28:00] Vhaltz: and only one town, or none

[26.10.2014 20:29:03] Dorian: I remember the lines you deleted, not what was in it, just that you did.^^;

[26.10.2014 20:30:14] Dorian: Well blitz would be questionable anyway, since his still blocked tonight, isn't he?

[26.10.2014 20:30:32] Vhaltz: hm?

[26.10.2014 20:32:55] Dorian: The idea was that he's still item blocked tonight as far as he told me.

[26.10.2014 20:38:03] Vhaltz: yeah he is

[26.10.2014 20:38:33] Dorian: I mean, would they see him sill as threat when they know that he's still blocked?

[26.10.2014 20:38:54] Vhaltz: it depends

[26.10.2014 20:39:03] Vhaltz: on whether it was US gov or infiltrators who blocked him

[26.10.2014 20:39:58] Dorian: I guess yes, cause he's town enough even without the role stuff, so forget that point.^^;;

[26.10.2014 20:42:51] Dorian: Or do you have any othere reason to go gambit on blitz?

[26.10.2014 20:44:44] Vhaltz: well, he said himself to take him off the doc targets for this phase

[26.10.2014 20:45:49] Vhaltz: I figure the reason he didn't get killed last phase is because they were doc dodging

[26.10.2014 20:46:05] Vhaltz: so it's unlikely that they would risk getting their kill blocked when scum is getting wrecked

[26.10.2014 20:46:35] Vhaltz: tbh I would also take myself off the doc list since I don't think I'd get killed

[26.10.2014 20:47:00] Vhaltz: but I'm seeing Mitsuki on Wednesday/Thursday and she really wants me to still be alive so we can talk about the game irl

[26.10.2014 20:47:22] Vhaltz: so I dunno

[26.10.2014 20:50:15] Dorian: So I guess the decision is up to me now, right?

[26.10.2014 20:50:50] Vhaltz: I guess so

...

[REDACTED]## Night 3: Throwing a Frag Grenade near Vhaltz.Of the three options I see, Euklyd, Blitz and Vhaltz, is Vhaltz the best for two reasons.First, I see him far more as the town leader than Refa. Maybe it's just me but Vhaltz give me the impression that he get things going and that's most important, that the machine keeps working.And secondly, the other two has already some wine going for them. Euklyd was already successfully protected and Blitz is also still an obvious protecting target, who got already spared for it.That's at last me reason and if you wonder if I'm sure that it will work.Well, … I have no idea.^^

...

[27.10.2014 21:53:21] Dorian: OK, either scum is playing around with us or I just saved three player with one Grenade.^^

[27.10.2014 21:55:13] Vhaltz: oh

[27.10.2014 21:55:18] Vhaltz: did you get a chaff tonight?

[27.10.2014 21:56:12] Dorian: Yes, I got a Chaff Grenade, so I guess Xinnidy went with the plan.

[27.10.2014 21:58:17] Dorian: Just wondering, does scum has to kill or can they idle?

[27.10.2014 21:58:31] Vhaltz: ask Rein

[27.10.2014 21:58:36] Vhaltz: gotta go to the bathroom for a bit

[27.10.2014 22:22:54] Vhaltz: gfgagasdfsadgfdf

[27.10.2014 22:22:57] Vhaltz: I have two scum

[27.10.2014 22:22:59] Vhaltz: lmao

[27.10.2014 22:23:04] Vhaltz: anyway

[27.10.2014 22:23:11] Vhaltz: who did you doc in the end this is important

[27.10.2014 22:23:22] Vhaltz: because I'm like 80% sure you blocked the kill

[27.10.2014 22:24:14] Dorian: You

[27.10.2014 22:25:45] Vhaltz: I might not have two scum anymore =(

[27.10.2014 22:28:33] Vhaltz: but yeah you probably blocked the infiltrator kill

...

[BBM]

Prims, I just said that I was super sure you were scum, not that I shot you because of it. I wouldn't want to shoot the other scumteam on N1 anyways lol

I was really busy on N1 IIRC, so the last couple hours before phase end I was just like 'do whatever' to Xinny, which ended up in her and Jalmont shooting you and vengekilling Blitz.

[Blitz]

we should totally have Dorian as town superdoc from now on in SFMMs, lol

also, Proto claimed his original role, role cop, so, it actually makes 4 info claims roles were scum (Xinnidy was also an info role claim, cause she could see herself getting visited/ we thought the stealing was secondary and primary was the same as yours)

and the last scum was bomb variant claim (note to self, bomb claims are always scum)