CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Zkirsche]

Dormio's Shin case is actually pretty good. Not interested in lynching Dormio at all at this point, and as usual people should sheep me on everything. Randa's actually got done the analysis I wanted and everything seems fine, so I'm happy:

##Unvote

##Vote:Shin

Sheeping Dormio's case for the most part, would like to know why scum would "skirt around the issue and deny things". I don't know what he means by "denying things" so I'd like clarification on that.

Mancer needs to clear up his opinions. First he's like "I don't like how Dormio is proceeding with the day" then goes "I agree [that scum wouldn't force a case this early]" then says that Dormio is his strongest case after making a point against Randa.

*insert comment about using self-meta not being scummy here*

People other than Randa/Dormio/Mancer need to post. SB/Shin where you at, you can't hide behind timezones while I'm about.

[Shin]

I think that these arguments were made only because there was a fairly strong anti-Dormio sentiment going around at the time whichallowed for things like this to pass without much scrutiny.

##Unvote

##Vote Shin

Playing the victim does you no favours. I voted you because I have legitimate reasons to why you look bad. If I were intent on joining the wagon for the sake of it, the chances are that I wouldn't be bringing anything new to it. Still, this vote feels like a kneejerk and it's still early in the game. My main gripe with the self-meta mention is that it seems like "I voted scum during RVS once, I was town then, I'm town now" more than a counter to BBM's post.

Dormio, now kirsche has outright said that he's miller, have your views changed? I took his initial comment as essentially a claim, but I'm curious to see if this has changed anything for you.

kirsche brings up a reasonable case against Randa, although I'm not entirely sure scum would follow a game so closely.

[Shin]

kirsche, I was referring to his "I don't know what you're saying" responses. My logic was that scum would less willing to give straight answers, and whilst Dormio claims his case on you was for vagueness, he's been awfully vague himself.

[Randa]

Okay so I gotta give a presentation now, so I won't be able to post till after class. Then I won't be online for like 6-10 hour as because for some reason we scheduled a Friday night game.

[charlie_]

People other than Randa/Dormio/Mancer need to post. SB/Shin where you at, you can't hide behind timezones while I'm about.

no but I can hide behind AWFUL SCHOOL TRIPS

skimmed on my phone but need to get caught up in depth. Generally I thought that the Dormio wagon was kind of and I was a bit leery at Boron iirc but that was all I got from skimming.

[BBM]

Dormio once wrote like an entire essay for an RVS case, as scum. It's probably true that the meta isn't necessarily correct because I haven't played with Dormio for a while, but it's definitely wrong that scum!Dormio wouldn't make big RVS cases that attract attention (something someone else said).

Dormio what do you think of kirsche? Like you voted Shin and that's cool but you didn't say anything about your current opinion on kirsche. Is he still scummy for the way in which he claimed Miller? And you responded to my meta point but you didn't actually respond to anyone's statements about why your kirsche case was bad- you answered everything that was directed towards you, but nothing actually about the case.

[Elieson]

NOT PLAYING NOT PLAYING

The game is mistitle'd cyou're, prims.

NOT PLAYING NOT PLAYING

[Ochako Uraraka]

##Vote: Randa

I will put the logic behind this vote under my main account, for the sake of those who abuse ISOs. I also want to vote two different people right now, and this role is PERFECT for it~!

I will ban Prims because he got my song wrong. I'm not Hannes FFS.

[Ochako Uraraka]

Oh dear me, that avatar picture. First, I'm changing that, THEN I post with my main account.

[Ochako Uraraka]

FINE, the lot of you get Bridget, who is a hell of a lot closer to my character's theme than that dude in an army uniform. Now, back to actual content.

[eclipse]

MY POWERS ARE BACK! Now as promised, content.

If I think that somebody is being deliberately vague, and that this is motivated by the want for flexibility in claiming options in the future, why wouldn't I vote them for it?

That's your logic - fine. The final interpretation of your actions in terms of my read on you rests with me, and what it is will depend on what else happens in the game. This statement includes the edit, which is a pain in the ass to quote because SF doesn't pick up quotes within quotes.

I took kirsche's post as a joke one. Even if kirsche were to deny being a Miller later on, I don't think it will really affect anything. Like, whatever kirsche claims now (either that he is a Miller or not), he can't really change or alter his claim later on. The whole thing about sitting on the fence regarding the Miller claim reads as bullshit to me.

First, I don't think kirsche was joking. Second, if someone counter-claimed kirsche, then what? Don't really care for the conclusion or the path to get there, but I think this is a Mancer tell, not a scum tell.

This post kind of tells me otherwise, Dormio.

That post IMPLIES that Dormio finds that behavior scummy.

Cool, I can actually make a vote that makes sense now.

##Vote: Paperblade

Follow me, everyone! Your prince will lead you to victory!

His Dormio vote really feels like a filler vote. #Meta but I really don't think Town!Paperblade is the type to vote Dormio like he did.

Dormio's kirsche vote was dumb and full of paranoia but the wagon on him is just as dumb(I guess BBM can be excused for using meta though I know nothing of it and reading the linked thread requires effort). Tryhard reasoning is not really what I expect scum to do during RVS and trying to grasp out of something in RVS is really hard as mafia IMO. I don't think Townblade would vote Dormio for his dumb vote.

I'm an empress, and I'll get to the rest of the content after I'm done making a nice little wall post.

ok can i just say that scum would have no reason to back off of a miller claim. it would make no sense. "hey lets draw attention to myself and then back out of my only defense when the cop scans me for my questionable claim and then unclaim."

"I was making a RVS joke" is a reasonable out. I'd do more than make a small mental note of what kirsche said if someone counter-claimed, which I don't think is happening at this point.

I don't particularly care, since it's pretty much a throwaway case to put an end to the RVS anyway.

Speaking of which, there's a lot of content to go through now, huh?

Most of it is focused on one person, and not in a way that I like. Over here, being cryptic is seen as being scummy. I have no idea how that happened.

BBM's meta is wrong because making some random case in RVS is something I do regardless of alignment.

It tends to happen more when I'm town as opposed to scum simply due to the fact that I roll town more often.

And BBM stated that the last time I did this, I was scum when I was not.

I usually don't take meta arguments too seriously. One's posting style isn't solely affected by role PM. The fact that you're harping on it is the first thing that I find scummy. Like Mar-mar up there, I'll get to your Shin vote after I'm done making a wall.

no that was me town reading dormio. there isn't any logical reason to assume either kirsche or dormio are scum based on their actions.

SO, if you're town-reading Dormio, then why aren't you doing a thing about his wagon?

kirsche brings up a reasonable case against Randa, although I'm not entirely sure scum would follow a game so closely.

. . .and the first thing from Shin that I don't like. Randa following the game is null. Randa contributing very little to scumreads - scumtell.

kirsche, I was referring to his "I don't know what you're saying" responses. My logic was that scum would less willing to give straight answers, and whilst Dormio claims his case on you was for vagueness, he's been awfully vague himself.

I'm scum every game~!

---

My strongest objections to Dormio are his arguments against meta, and the fact that he's made no other comments about his wagon except for Shin. The miller thing is null, IMO - kirsche was in no danger of being lynched at that point, so I saw it more as a way to stop RVS. I don't agree with Marth's logic behind Paperblade's vote (Paperblade does that regardless of alignment). Randa is doing a fine job of not working with the wagon provided by his claimed town-read, and Mancer feels like he's commenting on things other people see, rather than finding them out for himself. I DO agree with Shin's logic behind Dormio's most recent vote, even if I don't agree with his logic WRT Randa.

Top scumreads are Randa and Mancer for the reasons I stated in the previous paragraph. I'm wary of Dormio, but it's not enough to warrant a vote. I'm also a bit wary of Paperblade, who popped in to vote, and completely ignored the rest of the game. Not really sure what to think of Marth, as my biggest problem with him involves someone else. Everyone else is town/null/needs to post.

##Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

dirge of swans vote: Randa

[riariadne]

Jesus stop spamposting people (okay, Randa), you're just making the thread a bitch to reread and not providing anything more valuable by posting a bunch of times in a row and then being like "nevermind the stuff I said for the last 3 posts isn't actually true anymore since I read more of the game y'all can forget I said that".

A lot of the votes on Dormio feel a little too ezride and while his kirsche thing does seem like overreacting everyone else looks like they're overreacting more like this is the scum move of the century. Shin is probably the worst of these imhotep, followed by Paper, because they don't really feel like they're adding anything to the wagon that is already of somewhat shaky quality.

Dormio wagon is totally legit. Not just because everyone is voting for the same person as me (which never happens when I'm town, and never early on as any alignment), but because all of the cases have their own interpretations and reasoning. The main issue against Dormio is his kirsche case, for various reasons; Mancer had some issues with his side comments as well FWIW.

This post strikes me as very odd because most of the votes on Dormio are pretty similar and amount to "don't like kirsche stuff" + a bit more sometimes.

I feel like Randa is posting a lot and saying very little that is actually relevant content, so that's worth something. People who are townreading him for posting a lot should recall Reclass. Activity isn't a towntell.

Fine with my vote where it is.

[Percivalé]

7 pages! so close. it's okay I am still very proud of you

I just woke up let me catch up

before I went to sleep though I was getting an aggressive town read on Dormio so idk

[charlie_]

I can see where Dormio's case comes from (scum might want to back out of a miller claim if someone else says "but I'm miller...") even if I don't agree with it. This is also something Dormio does pretty regularly metawise regardless of alignment (and I thought BBM knew this?) so I don't see it as telling?

Mancer's Dormio case is the worst imo because he says that Dormio was asking questions but wasn't doing anything himself, which is obviously not true since he had the first serious vote of the game and nobody else had a case at that stage except Refa voting him back. And also it was kind obvious that Dormio found the vagueness scummy so I have no idea why you needed to ask that? Another reason I dislike Mancer is because of him saying "yeah I agree scum!Dormio wouldn't do this thing that Dormio did" but then stays on the vote anyway. His posts read kind of like he's just agreeing with every point brought up so far even if they conflict.

Shin's Dormio case is also kind of dodgy because it's perfectly acceptable to use self-meta as a defense when responding to a meta point and I don't see how Dormio wasn't responding to people either. Boron also feels kind of shaky to me because it feels like she's been really passive so far with no real opinions on the Dormio wagon beyond not understanding it despite being around for it? It's more of a gut thing than a serious suspicion though, I guess.

I don't really have issues with Randa, he has content and opinions, even if his posts are kind of hard to extract them from. And @ eclipse, Randa is voting Paper and expressed suspicion of Shin for his Dormio vote, so I don't think your vote makes sense?

##Unvote

##Vote: Mancer

[Randa]

now rein when did i say i changed my opinion on the stuff i posted earlier.if i did say to ignore everything else i had already said it would be valid,but i don't remember doing so. my thoughts from what i posted still are my thoughts.

[riariadne]

it was an example of why posting a million times in a row is dumb

[Randa]

it was an example of why posting a million times in a row is dumb

but the example hasn't occurred.

[riariadne]

look it's a hypothetical i'm not getting into a semantics debate on something this irrelevant it's just annoying

[Percivalé]

Warning for the newer(?) people who have not played with me before: my playstyle is like if you took a gay hobo off the street, gave him hard liquor, and then had him play a mafia game

I think the problem with Refa's earlier points (#60) is that I agree with his dead-end statement but the problem with it in this context is......it's ED1 and there was nothing else to go on. I agree with Rein in that it feels like everyone else is overreacting over an overreaction.

When I read Dormio's case I got a huge townvibe because it read like something I would do if I were in playing in a community other than SF, and it feels very genuinely like someone trying to get the game moving (especially in his exchange with Boron (#50, #52, #59)--the Boron exchange actually really struck me as hard town from the get-go).

If I think that somebody is being deliberately vague, and that this is motivated by the want for flexibility in claiming options in the future, why wouldn't I vote them for it?

see like this is legit and I agree with this

I know "I agree with this" doesn't make something a towntell but it's like Dormio had to repeat this a few times before people got it, I guess. I dunno.

I'm actually pretty surprised that my Mancer gutread might be correct eeheeheheheuuehehuhueh

the reason I threw that in before I left was that something about his RVS content struck me as distant. I know he's trying to post less than usual, but it felt like that to me from the beginning. Sometimes I can spot scum in RVS and it's awesome, 89% of the time I'm full of shit but that's okay.

Mancer's vote on #64 reads like he had to tack on some stuff to make it read like he wasn't just following Refa (he makes it sound like he's following a bunch of other people but I think only Refa was voting him at the time), especially at the end:

Apart from the bad case, I don't like how he's proceeding through the day. Asking Boron "Do you have any points of interest?" seems like a way to appear to be contributing when he's not really doing anything.

It's... barely the beginning of page 4 and it was a legitimate question to Boron who questioned Dormio without having any direction of her own. "I don't like how he's proceeding through the day" followed by only one example of why is such a cop-out and different from what I expect from Mancer, who usually comments on Literally Everything. Meta aside he's twisting things Dormio said later and it feels scummy.

Reading through page 4 and holy shit 3 Dormio votes within like 8 posts what the holy jesus fuck

[Percivalé]

I'M NOT USED TO POSTING BLOCKS OF TEXT BUT I'M TRYING TO STOP SPAMMING BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO WORK because YUCK I hate how that post looks. I'm crying on the inside

I don't like Shin's vote because Dormio was not avoiding responding to people in any way except when it seemed like he had to repeat himself like 3 times and still got votes anyway and got a little fed up. He doesn't provide any examples for the former and then turns around and goes "USE OF SELF-META IS SCUMMY" and ugh yuck, easy wagon vote

[Percivalé]

not to mention the only reason/time he used self-meta was to respond to BBM. what the fuck?

also yeah Paperblade is less of a presence when he's scum 100% legitimate meta case over here follow me everyone

BUT REALLY THOUGH

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

I'd still vote Mancer if that's who we're lynching today though.

Paperblade too because that actually was a genuine point I just made on him. I ALWAYS SAY IT and then I never follow through on lynching him and then he turns out being scum anyway. That better not happen this time I swear to god.

[Dormio]

I went to sleep and I woke up and I haven't read the 3 or so new pages that have popped up yet.

Quick question though, just to clarify, Boron is referring to Sunwoo right?

[charlie_]

Yeah, Boron is Sunwoo.

[Percivalé]

rein I hope you forgive me for posting like a drunk hobo because I really just am not cut out for this "not posting multiple times in a row" thing

I'll try not to exceed 3 posts at a time but I make no promises

[Dormio]

Man, all your names and avatars are merging together. This is hard.