Ragnarok Online Mafia [Game Over]

[Koneko]

ah I'm sorry if I'm not the person you want to be talking to atm but I'll try my best to answer what holes she might've left

##Unvote

##Vote: Kitsuki

Why is zerosaber's "bullying" with her vote something scum do and not town? It feels like you're forcing this.

When mitsuki and I were talking, she mentioned on this guideline of the sort she makes when trying to find scum and how zerosabers seem to fit it due to some sort of "hostility" coming from it. I'm not familiar with how those rules go, but it's what she used to make her judgement to making a claim and she went for it. Though seeing the turnout, it was an overreaction in the end and we made a big mistake for it orz The claim she made was just some sort of revelation she had and she wanted to say it since there wasn't much info to go off on from that point of time.

Mitsuki throwing around reads so easily without believable justification is bad. How is Zerosabers bullying SSG? People have voted others for obviously stupid reasons in previous games and it has never once bothered you; what makes this different? What does Koneko think about your vote (and if she agrees, why didn't she change her vote)? Would it really hurt to explain why you're townreading SSG (if he's not, then what is the point of that post)?

I know it's still RVS and chances are noone is actually bothering you (so this doesn't really apply right now), but it's better to vote people you feel weird about (explanation required, otherwise noone will give a fuck) and questioning them afterwords than waiting for an airtight case to come to you (spoilers: it won't). I say this because reading newer players who are super cagey with their votes fucking sucks.

I'm not sure what makes this different since I'm not familiar with how Mitsuki plays in previous games so I'm not sure how to answer that. All I can give is the thing I said to SB, I'm sorry friend. As for me, I thought zero was acting different but when reading back on their previous mafia games I changed my opinion otherwise. And since there isn't much to go on, I'll ##Unvote

I think she townread SSG due to their reactions in response to what she claimed earlier.

@Mitsuki: why have Koneko place your votes? is this a mentor hydra? what do you mean by zerosabers "bullying" somebody and what makes it scummy?

We decided a while back it was best if one person focused on doing the votes so that Elie wouldn't have to be as confused to look through all the ISOs to look at our vote changes. It's not a mentor hydra, since we're just bouncing ideas back and forth on what to do and make strategies about it. She referred the "bullying" as some form of hostility thinking that they were making some specific case towards a person which I guess could be scummy in some situations(?) but since it's day 1 it can't be the case since there's barely anything to use as evidence so that's bad on our part.

[Eurykins]

@eury: that post length is perfect. don't post anything longer. thanks in advance.

Is it just me, or do you seem to be almost asking me to wallpost here...? ;D

@zero:

##vote: Mitsuki

@eury: if RVS ended right now, would you vote mitsuki?

Eh. As stated above, I'm not really scum reading this slot heavily atm, but on that same token, it's the only slot to have caught my attention specifically and warranted posting at this point.

So by default, if I was to remove my RVS vote, then I suppose the one who'd be most deserving of it would be the Mitsuki slot?

What makes you ask though? Does this imply that you're attempting to prompt me to further contribute to the growing Mitsuki/Kitsuki wagon with my own vote?

>> For the record, I do see the growing Mitsuki wagon to be filled with people easily vote riding/coasting, so at this point, votes that are being cast/made purely at that slot (without much interest/notions towards anyone else at this point) seem pretty empty and lazy to me.

Sure, Mitsuki may have said something pretty sketchy in terms of casing, but what good does it do if EVERYONE suddenly just stops and stares at the slot for the exact same reason? Doesn't exactly scream loads of #efforting, nor does it really say much else in terms of quality scum hunting happening (even if there are newer people amongst us).

[Zerosabers]

I'm not too experienced with mafia but Baldrick's ability seems like a better fit for town.

From a game design standpoint it would make more sense for scum!mayor's vote to work without the player actually doing ##vote twice. That way they could sneakily hammer a mislynch without people knowing.

Even if the vote totals show and people can infer who is the double voter the scum could still try the weak defense of "I forgot my vote counts for two."

Baldrick's can't work as a sneaky hammer and can't be used as a "I forgot mine counts twice" since he'd have to do ##vote two times in order for it to actually count twice.

On another note I'm getting some guy town reads from Supershyguy. He really seems more of a first town game with how he acts.

##Unvote

Yurykins might be right about Mitsuki just trying to jump start the game.

Still I'd say she's the scummiest player right now so I'll

##Vote: Mitsuki

It's better than leaving it on a player I'm getting a gut town reading from.

I'll be on a little longer if anyone has questions for me.

[Dr. Rudy Mjølnir]

I already hate this game because there was no new thread once D1 started and I have no idea where content ends and begins.

@Mitsuki: why have Koneko place your votes? is this a mentor hydra? what do you mean by zerosabers "bullying" somebody and what makes it scummy?

@Eurykins: why vote Izhuark over your realtalk read?

@Supershyguy94: hey I have no idea who you are, please detail any past experiences with mafia and why you wanted to join this game, thx

##Vote: Lord Gilgamesh for being a scumskater. Do you have thoughts on anything?

Life are you enjoying NOC yet??

Hiya Primsy, my old scum buddy. : o

My own thoughts are that I do not see how Zero's RVS on SSG is any anyway bullying, it was just that, a silly RVS. If I recall in SB's game, Zero made an aggressive RVS against Dandragon and it turned into a fierce 1 vs 1.

I am unsure whether or not Mitsuki was joking with her post or serious. What I remember from the Criminal OC game is that Mitsuki's reads can sometimes be out of nowhere with no real weight behind them so like Eury said, she might just be getting us out of RVS. It is a null read for me.

[Zerosabers]

I thought zero was acting different but when reading back on their previous

I've learned a little more and last game I was stressed from the 1v1 with Dan putting me on the spotlight while I had no idea what I was doing.

I'm off for tonight though I might be able to post something in the morning but chances are I'll have to wait until 4 pmish before I can get back on.

[Life]

So I get my role PM and I literally sat down for five minutes, trying to decipher it. Once I did, I shot back a message.

"What a fucking stupid role."

So yeah, claim to me (in thread obviously, this shit doesn't have IRC) and I will guide the town to victory.

Oh and ##Vote: Eurykins because of a gut feeling and NOT TALKING TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF A GAME THREAD IS FUCKING STUPID.

Life are you enjoying NOC yet??

I will murder you with the fury of a thousand Russians.

[Baldrick]

I've had the time of my life, and I owe it all to you.

Since I'm going to be serious now I should confirm I am not a mayor or anything like that, the RVS doublevote was a joke and thereafter I was messing with zero. Sorry.

[Baldrick]

##unvote

##vote: King Gilgamesh

Off the fence. If your assumption is that Mitsuki is trying to get out of RVS, why would you be unsure if her post was serious or a joke? If Mitsuki was town in Criminal OC, does that mean you think it's something town!Mitsuki would do? What do you think of zero's posts so far?

zero/eury are a lesser scumread, since neither of them have a problem with Mitsuki's case but are voting/would vote them because they see nothing stronger. There's sufficient pressure on her to make her talk. If you're town, this isn't the time to be resting on your laurels and waiting for something to happen, you need to make something happen.

Right now I'm townreading Mitsuki because of reasons, but I need to hear her response to SB/refa before I can know if those reasons are correct.

[ZoesMad]

I blame Gaius

Rude.

Sorry I was super hyped that the Jets might actually be a good football team this year, but doesn't look like I missed to much. Kitsuki's vote on zero is really stretching it, but enough people have gotten on their case about that. Seems like a very large wagon to me with most sheeping due to either laziness or blending in.

Baldrick's case on Gilgamesh seems to also have some logic that doesn't make sense to me. Does the uncertainty of whether Gil knows if Mitsuki's post was a joke or serious matter if he thinks the purpose behind either one is the same? Why is it scummy if this is true?

##Vote: Life

Off putting to see Life come in a solid 6 hours into the day with a decent bit of content to work with, and made mainly a joke post (iirc you have a lot of mafia experience but I've only heard of you so sorry if I'm wrong). There's got to be more than a gut feeling to your Eury read, right? What do you think of Baldrick's case on Gilgamesh?

[Life]

##Vote: Life

Off putting to see Life come in a solid 6 hours into the day with a decent bit of content to work with, and made mainly a joke post (iirc you have a lot of mafia experience but I've only heard of you so sorry if I'm wrong). There's got to be more than a gut feeling to your Eury read, right? What do you think of Baldrick's case on Gilgamesh?

I have work. I work 8 hour shifts and my time difference is GMT +2. That means, when I go to work at 9 AM (in an hour and a half), it's 2 AM in NYC and you're all sleeping. I finish at 5 PM which is early morning.

I also don't play NOC on account for thinking that it's stupid and I'm glad to know that I'm still not wrong.

As for Gilgamesh/Baldrick, I simply don't give a fuck because NOC scumhunting is simply guesswork. Odds are that he's completely wrong and I have nothing to go by aside from my own gut which I trust more than you fuckers, that's for sure.

[Refa]

BLITZ POST

[Blitz]

BLITZ POST

absolutely....

@Faerie Knight: are you SH or BW?

##Vote: Izhuark for trying to assassinate the League of Poros! >8[

why start off with an OMGUS?

Aw, thanks :)

##Unvote

I think I'll just not vote until there's a legitimate reason to and not because I don't feel like making a joke

why do you drop your vote the moment someone calls you town?

Ooh, a mayor. Also, I'm new and haven't seen Mitsuki before this. :)

why did you feel the need to say this?

I think the confirmed town part of the post was a joke.

what makes you think this?

Secondly, as I stated before, regardless of Mitsuki's underlying intent with her comment (and despite the logic/casing behind her "scum read" basically having little to no merit), I felt it served mostly to just kick-start the game and get us out of RVS as quickly as possible. In addition, I'm expressing some doubt about that being an actual scumread on her slot, as I'm uncertain scum!Mitsuki/Kitsuki would opt to splash around this loudly this early in the game for zero reason.

I think Mitsuki was louder in SFMM4, where iirc, she was mafia and that was D1 too.

When mitsuki and I were talking, she mentioned on this guideline of the sort she makes when trying to find scum and how zerosabers seem to fit it due to some sort of "hostility" coming from it. I'm not familiar with how those rules go, but it's what she used to make her judgement to making a claim and she went for it. Though seeing the turnout, it was an overreaction in the end and we made a big mistake for it orz The claim she made was just some sort of revelation she had and she wanted to say it since there wasn't much info to go off on from that point of time.

IMO, hostility is not the best alignment indicator, since there are other better indicators (though, I am lacking the proper words for them). If you are looking for hostility, you can find plenty here and here, though I would like to say this was a scumtell and lynch the guy, he had turned up town the last game he was this hostile (though, he wasn't the game before that even though being this hostile)...

##Vote: Life

what was the point of your two posts?

[Refa]

Eury complaining about the Mitsuki wagon without explaining why/who on it is bad is scummy. It doesn't help progress the game any, and considering that she said she'd vote Mitsuki if she had to vote anyone, her issues with the wagon aren't justified. You can't complain about people having tunnel vision on the wagon when you don't even have any alternative that you're bothered by yourself.

Don't like Shy Guy's cheerleader routine. He's just blindly agreeing with points being made without either following up on those agreements with a vote/case/questions or offering a unique perspective on anything. I get that he's new but there's a difference between lacking confidence and not having an opinion.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

@Blitz

-Thoughts on the Mitsuki wagon?

[Refa]

PS Not actually feeling better about Mitsuki (and clueless about whether she's less scummy than Eurykins) but my vote will do more here.

[Refa]

No wait, I'm being dumb. I was less bothered by her than Eurykins because I could see possible town intent in her actions (even if overall, I'm still reading her actions as scum).

Anyways, sorry for the twitter posts.

[Baldrick]

@Life: it's educated guesswork.

@Gaius: I wasn't quite clear, but the actual thing I found scummy was him waffling on mitsuki, and offering no other reads, including his RVS vote target. The uncertainty on whether mitsuki's vote was serious or a joke was just strange, since a case trying to move out of RVS will always be serious.

[Crysta]

oh shit this started

sorry i'm late if you even noticed

since I'm jokingly hostile during RVS about 99% of the time I really do take zerosaber's RVS vote with a grain of salt. I mean, I was going to put my vote on shyguy for similiar reasons (being a video game enemy and all) if I had actually been here for the start of RVS. Alas, I have material to sift through. The slot is still null to me.

Eury's slot is bothering me the most right now. Even if it's just a very slight scumread on Mitsuki, she has pretty much admitted it's the only one she has so far, and yet she's RVS voting for Izhuark still. I would consider laying a vote on someone with the slightest scum tingle over keeping it on an RVS vote (and as Blitz pointed out, an OMGUS at that).

What makes you ask though? Does this imply that you're attempting to prompt me to further contribute to the growing Mitsuki/Kitsuki wagon with my own vote?

I mean, sure, I don't know why you wouldn't? I assume you intend to return to the thread, so it's not like it's locked in, and the vote seems more deserving there atm.

I also don't like this:

So by default, if I was to remove my RVS vote, then I suppose the one who'd be most deserving of it would be the Mitsuki slot?

How she phrased what should have been a statement into a question. It may just be a personal peeve of mine: it implies slight uncertainty, like someone is fishing around for what the other guy wants to hear more than just being forthright. Regardless, not liking it.

##Vote: Eurykins

And I suggest new peoples start forming reads sooner rather than later, for everyone's sake.

[Mitsuki]

I'm not replying to stuff I feel like I've already explained properly. If you want to know more, ask different questions.

@Refa: I'm not "throwing reads without justification", I'm just giving less justification, but the explanations are there. I come up with new tells sometimes, too. Shyguy is just obvtown, call it gut, call it whatever. Do you seriously expect him to post like that in his first game as scum? He feels too comfortable with what he's doing to be something other than town.

@Prims: It's not a mentor hydra. I want Koneko to place votes because I fear she may not involve herself in the game much and that way I'm giving her a reason to post. Also what she said.

Man Koneko I know how to defend myself, but thank you <3

[Mitsuki]

@refa: Why are you still voting koneko? Do you find them scummier than mitsuki?

Because we're the same playerslot.

Yurykins might be right about Mitsuki just trying to jump start the game.

Still I'd say she's the scummiest player right now so I'll

##Vote: Mitsuki

It's better than leaving it on a player I'm getting a gut town reading from.

Don't like this vote. She gives a reason why we may not be scum and then proceeds to vote for us anyways.

Seems like she's scum trying to blend in, feeling pressured to change her vote and just going with whatever others do, when town would be more relaxed about the whole thing. Specially players with not much experience, since they'd just unvote like Koneko did.

Everyone sheep my Zerosabers case, which my slot is currently not voting!

Oh and I don't like Blitz's post at all. I think he's just asking aimless questions for the sake of asking and seeming contributing, instead of actually having a train of thought behind those.

His read on Life also seems super lackluster, as he gives a justification for how Life could be town and then votes for him anyways.

Moreover, I don't like how he quotes Eury and replies that my play could fit my scum meta without actually giving any thoughts on me himself, feels like he's trying to shoot down townreads.

Blitz > Zerosabers? Definitely Blitz > Zerosabers.

[Zkirsche]

Why are there like 1000 posts I only just got my role pm.

##Vote: Refa

Eury analysing a wagon is most definitely game advancing lol and thinking that Mitsuki is actually scummy is ok too. You can agree with someone but think their reasoning is wrong.

Can someone cop Life so we know what his alignment is. His posts so far aren't scummy or town.

Iunno about Kitsuki but Mitsuki's Blitz read is good and sheepable so I'm content with the slot, dunno why Blitz is voting life for making two pointless posts as if he expected anything else from NOC!Life.

[Zerosabers]

Goddammit Baldrick, I'm reading the thread now.

[Zerosabers]

what makes you think this?

The game hadn't really started yet and the post was short with no real information.

Don't like this vote. She gives a reason why we may not be scum and then proceeds to vote for us anyways.

Seems like she's scum trying to blend in, feeling pressured to change her vote and just going with whatever others do, when town would be more relaxed about the whole thing. Specially players with not much experience, since they'd just unvote like Koneko did.

Everyone sheep my Zerosabers case, which my slot is currently not voting!

Unvoting didn't work so well for me last game so I was keeping my vote on who might be scummy then.

Shyguy is just obvtown, call it gut, call it whatever. Do you seriously expect him to post like that in his first game as scum? He feels too comfortable with what he's doing to be something other than town.

Pretty much this for my gut read on shyguy. Still he should post give his thoughts on what's happened so far.

I don't like Blitz' post though, half the questions don't really matter.

why start off with an OMGUS?

RVS

why do you drop your vote the moment someone calls you town?

It's his first game

why did you feel the need to say this?

It's his first game

what makes you think this?

RVS

While Shyguy does need to put more effort out his play is way too comfortable in his first game to be scum.

##Unvote

##Vote: Blitz

Most of the questions he asked are irrelevant, it looks to me like trying to pad out his first post.

I don't really think Mitsuki is as scummy, or even really that scummy at this point.

And I'm out of time sorry if anything is unclear, I'll be back on much later.

[Clarinets]

Don't like Shy Guy's cheerleader routine. He's just blindly agreeing with points being made without either following up on those agreements with a vote/case/questions or offering a unique perspective on anything. I get that he's new but there's a difference between lacking confidence and not having an opinion.

I don't like it either, now that I notice it's all I've been doing. Reading back through, I've really just been spamming with my posts instead of offering something for the arguments.

Man, I wish I would've elaborated on Mitsuki's first post instead of turning it into an RVS vote. So I'll do it here. I thought it was a pretty nitpicky reason to scumread someone but it seems to have pushed us out of RVS and that seems like it's purpose anyways.

Don't like this vote. She gives a reason why we may not be scum and then proceeds to vote for us anyways.

Seems like she's scum trying to blend in, feeling pressured to change her vote and just going with whatever others do, when town would be more relaxed about the whole thing. Specially players with not much experience, since they'd just unvote like Koneko did.

I don't agree with this. He's not sure if Eurykins is correct so he seems to just be playing it safe. I don't know, this just seems like more nitpicking to me. Anyway, I'll post more later when I have time. Goodbye.

[Clarinets]

Unvoting didn't work so well for me last game so I was keeping my vote on who might be scummy then.

Dang it, zerosabers already responded to that. At least I was correct. Unoriginal (AGAIN UGH) but correct.

[Mitsuki]

I don't like most of the stuff I brought up about Zerosabers anymore, but I'm not sure what to make of the fact that all of Zerosabers' content is rewording of others' reads. I'd like to see other people's thoughts on this.

@Supershyguy: Yeah but you don't just vote someone because you can see how their actions make sense as either alignment, you vote someone because you think they're more likely to be scum.