Ragnarok Online Mafia [Game Over]

[Clarinets]

I'm back! A lot happened while I was gone (sort of) so I might as well see what can do with the posts.

zerosabers: I don't understand why Mitsuki keeps attacking him, RVS was still going on when he voted what looked like the 'scummiest' person. Seems pretty town to me.

Mitsuki/Koneko: They're probably town. I didn't like their attacks on zersabers but it seemed to be a mix of getting the game running and self-defense.

Refa: I don't really know what separates town and scum arguments all that well but Refa's arguments are well-written and I agree with most of them. Definitely town to me.

Izuhark: Incredibly towny, really pushing for discussion and making sure we thoroughly inspect stuff and that seems town-like (I swear half of what I'm writing is explaining it to myself)

Crysta: You may only have posted once, but I liked the post. Still null though until I get a good read.

Executive kirsche: Once again, one post + pretty good post = null.

Baldrick: Faking a mayor role was kind of confusing. Also, if Mitsuki's first zerosabers read was a joke or not it would still be advancing the game and I could see it fitting under both. Null for you.

Life: He clearly is not enjoying this game and that's pretty much all he's posted so null. I liked how he cleverly implied he was town in his 'dang it, my skill is so bad please change it' comment.

Eurykins: Didn't understand the Eurykins scumreads but I reread and I gotta say that you're coming across as kind of scummy. All the reasons stated by everyone is all I can add here.

Lord Gaius: Forgot he was playing so I assume that's a null.

King Gilgamesh: Seems kind of town to me with his response to Prims, we'll see though.

Prims: Pretty scummy, had two good arguments and voted a bad argument (it's RVS, how is scumskating [is that in anyway similar to sheeping?] a bad thing) instead of them. Sure, he voted in RVS, but barely.

The 3rd Corinthian: I don't know if he's even playing but someone said he was so I'll take their word. He's null until I find a post by him and even then probably still null.

Blitz: Also somewhat scummy voting Life over his pretty good arguments. I mean I don't even know Life and as kirsche said it's pretty clear that he hates NOC very much so why bother voting him for randomly typing?

Supershyguy94: I'm pretty sure I'm the last one on this list, but I don't want to read myself so null.

Anyway, I think I'm going with Prims for now. His posts are the scummiest in my opinion.

##Vote: Prims

[Zerosabers]

Supershyguy, it's she.

Other than that can you try spacing your post out a bit more? It makes it a little hard to read.

[Clarinets]

Well, missed Eurykins's counter-arguments and she doesn't seem scummy anymore. Still, she had a few other quirks in her posts (stated by others) so null for you. Good job! :D

[Clarinets]

Sorry zerosabers, I didn't really start making sure that the genders were right until the part with Eurykins (I think).

Ok, I'll space it out. As soon as I posted the reads I sort of realized that anyway but it didn't seem that bad, but if it's confusing then I'll space them out from now on.

[Eurykins]

Quoting misc. posts (for reading other people's ISO's) will come in a later post- just covering Page 7 votes/notions towards me currently. Keeps stuff cleaner/easier to read IMO.

There's a difference between analyzing the wagon and complaining about it. She's not agreeing with someone but thinking their reasoning is wrong; her only issue was that too many people were voting Mitsuki.

> I noted that the wagon started up/had a lot of people piling on it early (ergo I was looking/considering what started the wagon, how it was pushed forth, etc.- how is this not analyzing a wagon? o.O?)

> I disagreed with the people who easily chose to vote-drop and not say much else with their earlier former posts. The QUANTITY of votes on Mitsuki is one thing, and is not something I was directly having an issue with- it was how the rest of the votes (and for the shallow reasons therein) ended up on Mitsuki slot that I disagreed with.

##Unvote

##Vote: Eurykins

If you're against the Mitsuki wagon (despite scumreading her yourself) because of some of the votes on it, why are you not going after anyone on it? After a bit more reading apparently Refa and I are on the same wavelength again which is kind of hilarious but whatever.

Already answered this in prior post(s), but to recap:

1. No real interest to vote on Mitsuki slot at the time/was in my RVS post.

2. I didn't see the NEED to say "X/Y/Z specifically are guilty of doing A/B/C on Mitsuki's wagon" in terms of mentioning the growing wagon, as pointing fingers early on doesn't really do much at all. That, and the other players should be able to piece/read for themselves who did what, so the persons in question = implied.

3. This vote in itself (plus the notions you pose to me) are nothing more than shameless sheeping of what others had posted before, which actually makes me feel as though this vote is coming pretty easily from your slot. Granted, there are a few others in this thread (from my PoV) that dropped easy votes on my slot, so this in itself doesn't hold much against you at this point in terms of how I view your slot atm.

------------

K. Well page 8 really doesn't have much more for me to directly respond to, so gonna take a short breather before I jump back into ISO surfin' for my next incoming post. Stay tuned!

[ZoesMad]

Hey had a busy day, reading up now.

[ZoesMad]

I thought that it would be a better idea to try and get a rise out of quiet players in order to get information from their reactions as to whether or not they're scum.

I didn't know that zero and Blitz haven't played before. Also I didn't see Mitsukis post, though if She's seeing something suspicious in Blitz, I'd like to see that post.

To be honest, I'm kinda acting like a smart arse. Just because I've read some games and learnt some terms doesn't makes me skilled in any way.

Give. The info on how zero and Blitz haven't played before, I think I may reconsider my Vote on Zerosabers. The main reason I thought he might be scum was the switch between Mitsuki and Blitz, but I can now see that it was kinda justified.

##unvote

[ZoesMad]

Ignore that I accidentally clicked post while in the middle of c/p'ing my real post mb all.

[Clarinets]

On the bright side, now I know what The3rdCorinthian has posted so I will analyze it.

reads his post

Oh yeah, I remember that. I have to say that The3rdCorinthian is leaning towards town for me. His argument against zerosabers was apparently wrong but since he had no idea it's pretty justified and not just bad logic.

[Mitsuki]

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree with Shyguy on Prims. Partially because of what Shyguy said and partially because as town I'd expect Prims to be doing more than he has. I don't mean that he'd be posting a lot, but he'd definitely be getting the game going.

My scumreads are Blitz >>> Prims right now. Wary of Zerosabers (and a couple other people) but that's it.

[Refa]

No...more...wall posts...

Just skimmed them but my opinion on Eury hasn't changed (TBF to her, it's because she's not done posting yet) and SSG is probably town on effort even though a few of the reads confuse me (mostly I don't get his Prims scumread). Also won't be able to post for the next 12 or so hours because finals.

[Baldrick]

I've only read page 8. Eury was kind enough to put her post into bite-sized chunks for me so I'll do her first.

I was watching and seeing what panned out wrt Mitsuki slot, as nothing much else was happening at the time. It was also later in the evening as well, so I had little interest in starting/getting into any sort of real scum hunting as I was tired and had work this morning (so went to bed not too long after the game started), as I care little for the slimmest of notions/casing on people early on (I like more meat in my cases if possible).

As long as you provide teal deer so I can decide whether I want your meat, I have no problem with this.

there's no reason for me to outline/highlight specific names

There kinda is. For one thing, ##vote: person doing the scummy thing that's clear and easy to see is not an acceptable vote format. For another, it allows you to sheep whatever case you like the most after the fact and claim you thought of it first.

2. I don't see the issue with me not voting her at the time that I mentioned her (especially since it was stuck in my RVS vote post). Her slot wasn't scummy enough to warrant a vote, and I moreso felt that people jumping on her wagon ED1 was more suspect than the slot under pressure/suspicion.

You talked a lot about Mitsuki and how her case was weird, without mentioning who was jumping on her wagon.

There's 0 reason for the supposed "OMGUS" vote to have any sort of casing against me, since there's literally no reason for me to have gotten actually defensive/otherwise affected by his RVS vote on me, so I'm not really seeing the logic of people using that to attempt to read what I'm saying/doing?

OK, I actually agree with this.

3. Just because someone piques my interest does not mean I have to vote for them at that given point/time. I am not obligated to place/replace my vote until I see fit to do so, and given the fact that I really didn't scum read Mitsuki's slot much at all, I don't see why I "SHOULD HAVE" placed my vote on her slot.

IMO you should have voted for whoever you thought was the scummiest. Leaving your RVS even after making some content suggests there's something to it.

> I noted that the wagon started up/had a lot of people piling on it early (ergo I was looking/considering what started the wagon, how it was pushed forth, etc.- how is this not analyzing a wagon? o.O?)

Because you didn't call out anyone, or try to deconstruct their thought process in voting for Mitsuki?

[Clarinets]

Well, when he posted his two posts way back then, he had two arguments that were popular for scum at the time which he agreed with (Mitsuki and Eurykins, I think) and yet he voted for King Gilgamesh instead of them for scum skating.

What is scumskating and how did King Gilgamesh commit it?

[ZoesMad]

Questions/commentary

@everyone: Why is Eury OMGUSing an RVS vote something to scumread her for in addition to everything else? Do you all truly think that's something only mafia would do in RVS (spoilers: it's not.) Not that the other points are bad, but some people seem to

be picking at this to seem like they're contributing to the case but they're actually just sheeping while trying to hide it (Blitz and Crysta)

@the3rd I'm assuming when you say "gains is town" you mean me. Is there anything from my two posts that particularly jumped out to you?

@SB where does Zero justify Baldy as town? Missed it in her posts.

##Unvote:

I don't think I'll get anywhere with a Life vote. Just a guess. Idk why a player so apathetic towards NOC joined a game.

I don't get your reasonements people "common knowledge" and "obvious" answers are not something worth ignoring in mafia. It's oftent because we think that something is obvious and come without saying that mafia can slip in without us noticing (and it's what happen in the last NOC game). I think it's unwise to blam blitz when he try to ask question on the little RVS content there been so far to start a dicussion about them, it's called make the game advance. I could argue to that this notion should go without saying too.

Anyway question in RVS are GOOOD so let's ask some everyone ! (will come back in a few minute, I'm still not experienced enough to know what kind of thing, i should ask to actually start discussions. But yeah let's discuss a lot :D)

It's not that people think asking questions is bad, it's the content/intent behind the questions. These are all very surface level questions with little reasoning as to whether the thugs he's asking about have scum intent or not.

@Refa: I'm not "throwing reads without justification", I'm just giving less justification, but the explanations are there. I come up with new tells sometimes, too. Shyguy is just obvtown, call it gut, call it whatever. Do you seriously expect him to post like that in his first game as scum? He feels too comfortable with what he's doing to be something other than town.

Being comfortable shouldn't be a town tell. Shyguy would have buddies that are mentoring him and be able to help him through creating believable "reads." Ik my first scumbuddies really helped me out and previewed my posts and all that.

Reads

Shyguy is actually looking really good compared to a lot of other new players in their first game. Why choose Prims over Blitz though? Still like the effort a lot, town read.

I don't like Eury saying that it's implied who the people on the wagon were. Leaving it to the other players to decipher your scumread isn't a good way of articulating yourself. Despite my question about the OMGUS, I agree with most of what everyone is saying about her.

Kirsche's first post looks to me like a "scum just getting by" post. He didn't include anything that he would be super noticeable while taking an interest in ultimately non consequential opinions like Life's situation. He decides to keep his vote on Refa because ? Likewise to shy guy's Prims case he had reasons to vote other players. Eury also wasn't analyzing the wagon, merely counting on how quickly it grew and there could be sheep among it.

##Vote: Kirsche

More incoming, on a long train to DC for college trips :/

[ZoesMad]

Well, when he posted his two posts way back then, he had two arguments that were popular for scum at the time which he agreed with (Mitsuki and Eurykins, I think) and yet he voted for King Gilgamesh instead of them for scum skating.

What is scumskating and how did King Gilgamesh commit it?

Scumskating I think is when scum coasts on easy posts to make (Example: what I'm casing Kirsche for.)

[Zerosabers]

@Gaius, it was when he was screwing with me about having a double vote.

[Dr. Rudy Mjølnir]

I'm here now, my snowflakes. Let me just get all caught up and read the pages.

@Supershyguy: I'm not sure myself what it means, Prims and I were scumbuddies in another game.

[Clarinets]

This'll probably be my last post today and I just realized I won't be at home for the Day 1 end.

I voted Prims instead of Blitz because

uh

actually I don't know probably because I was proud of myself for coming up with a new case.

Wait no according to someone Blitz often asks random questions to help draw out scum and that was what happened there, so I blindly thought, "Okay. It's not like I have played mafia with him or anyone before," and agreed. That's a pretty substantial part of the case against him so I figured that Prims was more of a target.

[Baldrick]

So, between Blitz and Crysta I find Blitz worse, since he didn't do anything to follow up on Eury. The OMGUS thing could be him cheerleading the wagon. Zero and Mitsuki's cases on his one post are good and sheepable.

##unvote:
##vote: Blitz

Gilgamesh presumably hasn't been on has just got here, so I'll put him on the backburner wait for his content post. FYI I'm more interested in reads than defence.

[Clarinets]

Must... Stop... Posting... Need... Sleep...

Eh, who cares about insomnia. What do you find suspicious about Crysta? I didn't really see much in his post that would be a red flag (granted, this is coming from a noob) so could you explain?

[Dr. Rudy Mjølnir]

Off the fence. If your assumption is that Mitsuki is trying to get out of RVS, why would you be unsure if her post was serious or a joke? If Mitsuki was town in Criminal OC, does that mean you think it's something town!Mitsuki would do? What do you think of zero's posts so far?

Like I said before, Mitsuki's reads can sometimes just be thrown out there with no real direction, but it was just silly to me to infer from Zero's RVS that she was "bullying" Supershyguy and Mits as an experienced player I am sure knows better than that, which is why I considered the possibility that she was just joking. The only game I played with her is the Criminal OC, so I don't know what her scum meta is to say whether or not it is something Scum or Town!Mits would do because funny enough I was scumreading her for most of the game until she took over as Town Leader. So on that, I am null reading her.

Zero: Null read. I already said what I thought of her RVS and doing the same thing in SB's game, but her rewording of other people's posts don't bother me too much because she is still new and learning the ropes. I do like that she is making sufficient posts in the game and not trying to just blend in.

Refa: Town read: He has good, content posts that contribute to the game such as his thoughts on why Eury is scummy.

Supershyguy: He is a town lead for me. He is getting out there and posting his thoughts and reads and even started a new case on Prims. Newb scum to me would not be so "open" and "active" on D1, that is what I tried to do in SB's game was refrain from posting as much as possible.

Fairy Knight: Dude, where are you? Post your thoughts and reads on everything so far.

Life: I don't know what to make of him. I didn't even know some people preferred OC to NOC(ewww). I like his hostile, aggressive approach though, it is quite humorous.

Prims: He should be more active in the game, but I'll give him a chance to post.

Blitz: I agree with the others that his questions are dubious and empty with no real weight behind them. I have heard that Blitz is someone who is good at catching scum early on in the game, which is why the scum in Criminal OC fearkilled him, but I am not getting that feeling from Blitz in this game. It is more that he is just trying to get himself in there while trying to look like he actually has points to make. Life's hostility is not a problem and seems more like an excuse to me to try and point the finger at someone else.

Everyone else is a null read for me.

##Unvote

##Vote: Blitz

[Baldrick]

@Gilgamesh: that makes sense re: Mitsuki.

If you like Refa's case on Eury, do you find her scummy?

You said you were buddies with Prims before. Did he say/do anything on Day 1 of that game that you can compare/contrast to what he's done this game?

Ignoring Life's meta, do you think his aggression is more likely to come from town or scum?

[Life]

Ignoring Life's meta, do you think his aggression is more likely to come from town or scum?

Neither. Comes from the fact that I can't PM people and actually figure shit out. Instead, I get two options:

1) Be a nice little sheep and vote with majority because someone may have said something funny.

2) Make a guess. And I hate making guesses. I'd rather actually be talking to people privately and making plans.

But there wasn't an OC game that wasn't ongoing so... here I am.

My current vote is staying on Eurykins. Like I said, gut feeling.

[Crysta]

I had little interest in pointing direct fingers at people.

Why?

I mean, someone has to do it, and there isn't much of a reason not to. We don't want RVS to be truly random. Why are you delegating the finger-pointing and voting to other people?

Her slot wasn't scummy enough to warrant a vote, and I moreso felt that people jumping on her wagon ED1 was more suspect than the slot under pressure/suspicion.

You essentially didn't follow through with any of your reads, for some reason, even as the discussion continued to unfold (thus giving you more room for reads to evolve).

I never knew an RVS vote could seem so controversial

It's not.

Blitz pointed it out in a question and I did it in parenthesis. We are literally the only people who noticed it or thought anything of it. I still find it strange that you sat on the vote for so long; it being an OMGUS RVS just makes it more noticeably bad imo.

I don't think two people talking about it D1 is really "controversial"; picking at RVS votes is hardly a new thing. It's not a mountain out of a mole hole yet.

Just because someone piques my interest does not mean I have to vote for them at that given point/time. I am not obligated to place/replace my vote until I see fit to do so, and given the fact that I really didn't scum read Mitsuki's slot much at all, I don't see why I "SHOULD HAVE" placed my vote on her slot.

You don't have to, no. You don't have to do anything.

And I can find it suspicious, which I still do. I'm more bothered by it than Blitz's one post, for now.

Not that the other points are bad, but some people seem to be picking at this to seem like they're contributing to the case but they're actually just sheeping while trying to hide it (Blitz and Crysta)

I dunno I thought mine was more thoughtful than simply going "I agree with everyone else"; it probably doesn't add a whole lot to what was already said (mostly because I wasn't there to say it first), but coming to the same conclusion when reading the same stuff isn't really deliberate deception.

And Blitz just asked a question (which he hasn't followed up on and ought to) and he is currently voting for someone else, so I don't know how he's sheeping. Of course he hasn't really elaborated much on it yet, either, which is bad.

wrt Blitz: it's still D1 and I don't know if the material he had to read gave him enough to ask more than just surface questions at the time, so while the wagon doesn't surprise me I'm not getting scum vibes off of it yet. I don't recall the questions he threw out in Time Travel Mafia being particularly thoughtful, either; his follow-up was better. But... until that follow-up comes there's not much else to say.

I'll probably post more later when I've relaxed a bit more.

[Elieson]

V-V-V-Votals!

Eurykins (5): Izhuark, Refa, Crysta, Life, SB.

Blitz (4): zerosabers, Koneko/Mitsuki, Baldrick, King Gilgamesh

Life (1): Blitz

King Gilgamesh (1): prims

Executive Kirsche (1): Lord Gaius

Izhuark (1): Eurykins

Refa (1): Executive Kirsche

Prims (1): SuperShyGuy94

Voteless (2): Faerie Knight, The3rdCorinthian

41 Hours and 13 minutes remain in phase. A Hammer of 9 votes will end phase immediately, but with no hammer, Day 1 will still end with a lynch on the single player with the most votes.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Elieson