Ragnarok Online Mafia [Game Over]

[Life]

You're clearly worked up so I'd say it worked.

[Eurykins]

You're clearly worked up so I'd say it worked.

Yes, me being tired and annoyed at people falsely accusing me of things (and therein attempting to call me scummy for it) does tend to illicit reactions. Not that it's anything good/special, but I suppose it "worked" in some manner. Still doesn't make it a good reaction test.

[Refa]

You're missing my point. It's not that you don't have the same amount of scumreads, but that proportional to your amount of content you've had very few scumreads. Like yeah, I can get that it's frustrating when people have unfair expectations (and I've probably been part of the problem in the past) but that's not really part of my case here. It's FINE that you're not playing the same, however how you are playing is scummy because this is never something you've had problems with in the past (whereas if someone has a hard time getting scumreads, I wouldn't be bothered by them in a similar position).

Kind of annoyed that you say that my gameplay/casing seems weak at best when 1) you clearly haven't read me thoroughly if you say that I'm spamposting (when did I shitpost either? 99% sure I never did that) and 2) you responded to like the weakest part of my case on you. Why did you vote Blitz over Zerosabers?

[Refa]

I mean, I'm not even sure if there's scum intent there (as opposed to my other points, which I do feel pretty good about). It's just something that bothered me at the time.

[Eurykins]

So, because I have X amount of content, you expect Y amount of scum reads, Refa...? (I'm not quite sure my brain is fully comprehending your comments/notions atm since it's kinda burnt out, but work with me here). Doesn't quite make sense to me.

Also, why is having 3-4 scum reads (in this size game) terrible as well, when there are inactive player slots, and people who are still remaining null (for various reasons) to me in terms of reading them accurately/strongly at this point? Not sure if I'm just missing why you're finding me scummy for whatever reason, but it's not exactly ringing in much sense to me right now (may be my fault, idk).

As for spammage:

> RVS first post (so innately pretty useless/not an actual content post).

> Didn't feel like this did a whole lot, given that Mitsuki was already getting prodded for pretty much the same sort of notions/concerns (so kinda just openly parroting people) + response to shyguy wasn't much else to really see as worthwhile either.

> Likewise does nothing.

> Once again, does nothing.

> This is your first post in which you actually start to put down actual content/voting/etc.

So in that sense, in terms of ED1, I found you to have mildly been spamming the thread. Was it as massive as other games in which you've spammed? No, definitely not. But was it enough for me to consider it as ED1 spammage? Yes.

Also, I chose Blitz over Zero because Blitz's gameplay read straight up as being scummy, while I'm struggling to pinpoint whether the entirety of Zero's gameplay has been directly scummy or not (AKA. If I'm getting more stuck on "bad gameplay/disagreeable logic" vs. actual scum intent with his gameplay). With Zero's last post/vote (Which again, was extremely easy and blatant sheeping/vote sitting at this point), I'd say that's probably one of the first direct scummy thing I've seen from the slot itself.

[Refa]

Moreso I would expect that when you have so many reads on so many players, a greater percentage of those would be scumreads. I'd be a total fuckwit if 3/4 scumreads was bad, but it's moreso relative to your amount of reads.

I don't see how I was parroting people with the second post there. Maybe I had similar issues with Mitsuki to SB but I feel like I added something there that noone else did. I dunno, it just seems nitpicky considering how early in the game that was and nothing better was happening.

Fair enough on Blitz VS Zero. Mreh, maybe I'm tunneling too hard here because the tone in your last post reads as good to me (tone in the one before that bothered me but yeah). Going to analyze your ISO later, but I don't feel comfortable enough voting here right now.

##Unvote

##Vote: Blitz

[Refa]

Also I really am sorry about the meta thing. I know it frustrates me when people say the same thing to me so yeah.

[Eurykins]

Also I really am sorry about the meta thing. I know it frustrates me when people say the same thing to me so yeah.

It's okay- I know I was a bit riled up from earlier posts, so my apologies to you and others (yes, Life included, lol) for being mildly irate with my tone in the other post(s). IRL stuff has been pretty meh for me, and sorry that it may have affected my in-game responses a bit. ;/

((And I suppose it's just a bit frustrating when I try to change up my gameplay and/or improve it, and suddenly I'm scumread for it because it goes against what I've had a habit of doing for a while in previous games, lol. This is why meta reading can suck sometimes. xP))

[Mitsuki]

Oh god it's that point of the phase where we have to get a lynch and just thinking about it makes me feel so lazy. orz

I don't want to lynch Eury, what a surprise. Not townreading her, she's null, but to me it just seems like right now people want to lynch her because she's mad. That's it.

It's very easy to be confirmation biased towards arguing that someone who is mad is scum. People tend to scumread me a lot when I'm mad at them for arguing dumb shit against me, and the other way around. Yeah, I know the cases began with other points, but none of them seemed to hold any water to me. To be continued in some other post?

3rdCorinthian's reply to my case doesn't make us change our mind on him as he's just apologizing and using the same passive tone I commented on before. I have more specific thoughts, but I feel like it'd be a waste of time to reply at this point. You can ask me what I think of a certain part if you want though, and I'll try to reply to that.

God damn it Gaius I'm not even scumreading Zerosabers anymore. Why the fuck are you commenting on the quality of my read, it will literally serve no purpose. Stop giving your opinions just to try to seem cool.

Mitsuki, why are you ignoring me if you think I'm scum.

I'm not ignoring you, you're just not posting.

Your "newer" post didn't make me change my mind on anything, but I felt like I would only repeat what I had said before if I commented on it, so I said nothing.

[Prims]

I just would expect town you to try and level with me more, instead you don't really care, like I'm a passive suspicion there to pad out your thoughts. but what do I know I haven't read yet still

Kinda just want to lurk this one up then bust some heads once there are flips to work with

[Mitsuki]

You are a passive suspicion, but that's because I'm waiting for you to post more content.

I do care though.

[Mitsuki]

Blitz (6): Koneko/Mitsuki, King Gilgamesh, Eurykins, prims, SuperShyGuy94, Refa

Eurykins (5): Izhuark, Crysta, Life, Zerosabers, Lord Gaius

Crysta (2): SB, Baldrick
Life (1): Blitz
Refa (1): Executive Kirsche

Voteless (2): Faerie Knight, The3rdCorinthian

Hammer is 9. Around 12 hours left, but that's just a quick estimate.

[Baldrick]

@eury: do you consider your blitz vote sheeping?

what is the purpose of your ISO analyses of the players you didn't find suspicious?

[Mitsuki]

@Prims: if you think what I'm doing doesn't fit my town play why are you doing nothing about it

[Refa]

3rd Contrarian: The main issue of not having any scumreads is still there, but the tone/motivation behind his posts is town. For one, he's rereading the game and his reaction to getting scumread was good (proving people wrong w/o attacking them/their argument is fucking hard as newb scum). Not sure if that outweighs the main issue but he's less of a priority.

Crysta: Her initial vote was fine (maybe it has a few leaps in logic but it's ED1), her followup not so much. In addition to what I said WRT her ignoring the rest of the game (and yeah, sheeping SB/Baldricks' reads), she didn't really bother to analyze Eury's later posts.

Izhuark: Please post more (mostly because you're one of my favorite posters). ;_;

Leaf Green: What bothers me here is that he's asking a lot of questions but he's not actually getting anything out of them (assuming people haven't noticed because it's interspersed with content). I'm also not seeing the scum intent getting pointed out in either his Life or Kirsche votes (and he easily dropped his Kirsche read even though Kirsche only proved him wrong on a minor point). Also it's contradictory to townread Koneko/Mitsuki for effort and vote Eurykins.

I'd also take a second look at Zerobuster (and LG) if Blitz flipped scum, mostly because her voteswitch read as unnatural.

[Refa]

Uh, I deleted the part about me not ISOing Eury because I wanted to step away from that read for a while (honestly until like D2). So here it is.

[Prims]

@Prims: if you think what I'm doing doesn't fit my town play why are you doing nothing about it

Waiting for tonight so I can vig you duh

[The3rdCorinthian]

Alright, Eury case analysis:

Refa: The initial case against her seems to come from one of her early posts where Eury was focused on the Mitsuki wagon despite Mitsuki being her only real scumread. However, Eury maked the argument that whilst she did feel Mitsuki was scummy, It wasn't enough to warrant a vote. His only other real issue with her was her lack of scumreads in her wallpost, which I don't think matters so much because she didn't seem to be have a huge amount to go on from everyone at the time.

Izuhark: No case here. Just an ealry RVS post he's never taken off. Hasn't responded to anything since almost 2 days ago. Laaaaaaazzzyyyyyy.

Crysta: He hasn't really been reading people outside of Eurykins, so i'm suspicious of him for that pure focusing. Whats more, the only reason why he's been voting Eury so far was that same post that started Refa's suspicions. Thats it. He hasn't analysed her wallpost or anything. I'd like to see more of a case coming out for this scumread. I also agree with baldrick that the case presented is kinda nitpicky.

Life: His initial suspicions were just a gut read, but were magnified by Eury's very dismissive reaction towards his scumread. I can see the logic here of scum trying to subtly discredit a potential threat, and this combined with Eury's later frustrated response really didn't make eury look good. However, it does feel like Life is trying to base his argument about Eury's reactions, which could be for any number of reasons. In short, we have to assume that Eury's dismissal was to discredit Life for this series of arguments to make sense, and I'd rather have a firmer reason to vote Eury

Zerosabers: Not much of a case. Hell, she even said she was sheeping.

Lord Gaius:

@mitsuki: You keep saying that i'm being passive, but I still don't understand what you mean by this. Could you please clarify?

In terms of scumreads, The only person I can think of who i have suspicions of is probably Crysta. I don't like the way that they've been focusing on solely Eury, and even then on one of the earlier, less detailed posts. If he was town, why not pick apart the wallpost from a few pages back. That has more explanations in it after all, and thus more chances for a scum player to slip up and out themselves. Why not analyse some of the others aside from Eury and Blitz?

aaaaaand I can't post because the sites down! FUCK. MY. LIFE.

[Refa]

Waiting for tonight so I can vig you duh

*get fearkilled before you start posting seriously

@3rd If you're going to analysis my Eury case, at least analyze the latest version jeez.

[The3rdCorinthian]

Sh*t forgot to post my analysis on Gaius's read >_<

Well, from what i gather, Gaius's vote on Eury is mainly down to some of the posts by Prims. Prims noted that Eury made conclusionless reads on people in her wallpost, and believes that she could have just used single sentence descriptions for these people. Prims thinks it might be possibe for Eury to be using her position as Queen of wallposts in order to distract people from a lack of scumhunting. I'm not certain of whether this is or is not the case. In regards to the 'single sentence' quote, I'd have to rgue that I prefer getting a little bit more detailed analysis, since we can understand which specific parts she disagrees with and where.

In regards to the latest version of Refas Eury case, I stand by my earlier statement of not having a huge amount of posts to make detailed scumreads at the time. However, I do agree to your analysis of Refas calmer response to you. It did have a very townie vibe to it, so for now I'm also fairly sure that Eury is town.

Finallly, i thnk I am going to put my vote down on Crysta. Whilst Blitz is more likely to be scum, I sit behind the idea of letting him talk before we push dat wagon off the cliff. I've already talked about the reasons why i think Crysta may be scum, and I'd like to see him explain why he hasn't even som much as mentioned Eury's wallpost yet.

##Vote:Crysta

[Mitsuki]

Why the Eury Cases Suck

Crysta:
- Didn't change votes from her RVS vote to me
I don't see what's wrong with it, but why would she do that as scum rather than as town? As scum you'd be willing to push just anything at that point of the game if you came across something. If something, that makes Eury townier.

- OMGUS RVS vote
OMGUS is not telling if there's not a clear mindset behind it, duh

- Uncertain about what Eury would vote if she wasn't keeping her RVS vote
Well, I'm also uncertain of what I'd be doing if I weren't doing what I'm doing.

- Not following the discussion to let her own reads evolve
What. This looks like a misinterpretation. And why is that scummy, personally I want my reads to evolve.

Life:
Can't argue against gut, of course.

- Eury is scared of his vote and trying to discredit him as a result
To me Eury's reply to Life just feels like someone mad at being cased. I've felt like Eury was trying to discredit my reads before too, and she was town there. I think that's just the kind of thing she posts about regardless of alignment.


More when I can write more. This is more fun than I thought.

Waiting for tonight so I can vig you duh

That would actually be pretty cool, if it were true.

[SB.]

Prims, what's your read on Eury right now?

A proper catchup will come shortly, need to take care of something first.

[Crysta]

Not moving an RVS vote isn't alignment indicative at all, and it feels like the "oh yeah its also an omgus" comment is taking it out of context and making it seem worse than it actually is (and also in her next post Crysta ignores Eury's comment about how the fact it was an OMGUS was meaningless which I agree with). Also, I feel like she's really leaving her options open wrt how she can react to the pressure on Blitz which kind of bugs me but doesn't really matter if Blitz isn't scum I guess.

The initial Eury case was actually a bit nitpicky, and it feels like you're using OMGUS to hold it up. It being "more noticeably bad" doesn't mean anything; her use of her vote wouldn't have been any better if the RVS vote had been on anyone else.

Your other point is hesitant ("it may just be a peeve of mine"), like you're giving yourself a way to back off the read later.

What are your other reads?

To be honest, if it was just a joke RVS OMGUS it wouldn't have pinged with me. Weapons did it in the last game I was in. Didn't think twice about it.

As for the bit about me not liking how she answered a question with a question: it's the equivalent of a gut read; I acknowledged it may just be me.

But it was an OMGUS paired with 'real talk' and I don't really agree that it would have been just as bad if it the vote was on someone else; if the vote was on the person bothering her (even if only slightly) it would have made more sense to me. I don't think it needed to exist if something was already rubbing her the wrong way.

I don't think it's what's holding my case up; it was a sidenote on an otherwise bad RVS vote imo.

If Blitz ends up scum I don't believe it's particularly damning that I'm not gung-ho on the wagon, but I don't think going "hum I see why other people are bothered by it because it's bad" is going to be my saving grace. I don't see anyone saying it's good except maybe Izhuark.

She didn't vote there and had about three posts simply answering why she didn't vote there (outside of saying the Mitsuki wagon votes were empty/lazy). I can't really go into depth about something she didn't do. But yes, I would probably have been less suspicious if she pursued Mitsuki in any serious fashion (even if she didn't stay there) or one of the lazy bandwagoners; so the RVS vote remaining there for that long does bother me.

Her latest reply to that isn't terribly convincing - I still think the fact that she wasn't very pro-active when she could have been is suspicious - but it's not something I feel I should continue to harp on about if her only reason is she was busy and not intent on going full scumhunting because of it. My vote's still likely staying, though.

As for the other people (I intended to post reads earlier than this but stuff happened):

zero's coasting but I suspect it's newbplay at the moment. She did, ironically, do what I thought Town!Eury should have done, but there's a lot of regurgitating other points (re: Blitz's questions being fodderish), she hasn't really engaged anyone, and hasn't really explained her reasonings (re: like why she doesn't think Mitsuki is no longer scummy and stuff). Most of her content is answering questions/defending herself but even I get too focused on doing that, regardless of alignment.

Life's blunt/honest regardless of his alignment. I don't put a whole lot of weight on someone getting annoyed with him. Hyper-defensiveness, maybe, but not annoyance. Gaius thinking he got something out of his reaction test makes me raise a brow; I didn't think it was that revealing for someone to be annoyed at him.

Izhuark is still on his RVS vote and all he's really done is defend the usefulness of Blitz's questions. I'd ask him why he felt compelled to do that instead of letting Blitz answer himself (though it appears Blitz may not do so).

In terms of scumreads, The only person I can think of who i have suspicions of is probably Crysta. I don't like the way that they've been focusing on solely Eury, and even then on one of the earlier, less detailed posts. If he was town, why not pick apart the wallpost from a few pages back. That has more explanations in it after all, and thus more chances for a scum player to slip up and out themselves. Why not analyse some of the others aside from Eury and Blitz?

aaaaaand I can't post because the sites down! FUCK. MY. LIFE.

I'm not going to pick at everything in Eury's wallposts; I don't see that as very constructive if not everything in them is relevant to what I have a problem with. I was far more interested in engaging her than convincing everyone else to join the wagon, to be perfectly honest, since the day was still young and she is still my top scum read.

And I thought I had read her iso, so I'm honestly not sure what I'm missing. I can see how it looks like I'm ignoring everyone else (I'm not, but it's up to me to really show that, sooo), but this feels a little tacked-on.

oh god there's three new replies what are you people doing

If you think Blitz is more likely to be scum it's probably a better idea to put your vote there and ask me questions. I'm around.

Why the Eury Cases Suck

Crysta:

- Didn't change votes from her RVS vote to me

I don't see what's wrong with it, but why would she do that as scum rather than as town? As scum you'd be willing to push just anything at that point of the game if you came across something. If something, that makes Eury townier.

- OMGUS RVS vote

OMGUS is not telling if there's not a clear mindset behind it, duh

- Uncertain about what Eury would vote if she wasn't keeping her RVS vote

Well, I'm also uncertain of what I'd be doing if I weren't doing what I'm doing.

- Not following the discussion to let her own reads evolve

What. This looks like a misinterpretation. And why is that scummy, personally I want my reads to evolve.

1) I don't agree, especially at that point in the game. Scum can dick around more easily if they wanted to - but I expect them to be more cautious and follow wagons tbh. It is productive to get out of RVS, even if it means pursuing less-than-convincing cases, and I don't think saying you were being suspicious but quickly adding you may just be shoving us out of RVS to be productive in a townie manner.

2) I don't think anyone reads minds - but it's obvious I'm the only one on the the-OMGUS-is-slightly-offputting train so far, so whatever. It's not something I would write a thesis on.

3) You don't have a secondary scumread? Or wouldn't at least try to get one? I can't say I'd be as certain of a vote on Blitz/zero/izhuark but I'd at least vote there.

Formatting this post while adding new quotes was fucking annoying.

[Life]

All I know is that if Eury flips Mafia, I know where my vote for Day 2 is going. And that kind of defense makes me think Mafia (simply because it's what I'd do).

[Life]

Eury, here's an idea. Give me a reason why we should keep you around. Saying "I'm not mafia" isn't going to cut it.

Why? Because you've posted a whole lot about nothing, sent some shots my way and then when I called you out, you got prissy and defensive about it. Which spells Mafia in my books.