Ragnarok Online Mafia [Game Over]

[Zkirsche]

I'm busy for the next 36 hours or so but Baldrick/SB do you agree with my interpretation that Refa is oddly forgettable? I know he's been busy but it's not really the lack of content bothering me it's that the quality isn't good enough to leave an impression. Would also like Eury to explain what she meant by Refa spam posting because it doesn't really feel like he was.

[SB.]

I'm currently okay with Refa, but that might just be because generally we had similar thoughts for a while. He's been gone for a while though (and I don't think I've seen him on skype either fwiw) so this could easily change either way depending on his catchup post.

[Refa]

The numbers in this game are 1/4/4/4/4. No killerino please.

Thoughts on Eury's reads post upcoming so I can put off rereading it. I got something from Prims' reaction though. Eury typically doesn't have problems coming up with scumreads (as town) so her behavior here comes as odd; in SFMM4, she was scumreading half of the playerlist. To be more specific, it's less her having 3 scumreads that bothers me and more that she had so much filler content.

SB, I don't get your Crysta vote. I agree with what you're saying but that just seems to be one part of her entire read. What do you think about the rest of it? I thought she made good points about Eury's decision to not vote anyone early on and not following through on her reads. Honestly, what's bothering me more is that besides Eurykins and Blitz, she hasn't really talked about anyone else.

Agree with what SB said about Blitz's play being like .Hack 2. He's been inactive for large periods of time as town before (internet problems), but I'd expect more immediate responses (to me) if that was the case. It'd be cool if someone (you know who you are) could mention if he's been online at all recently, though.

Refa is incredibly forgettable and definitely not spamposting (LolEury?), his response to my obviously flawed case was not nearly as assertive as it usually is from town!Refa. Might just be finals but this is scum!Refa meta in a nutshell so content with this vote.

Liking Life's case on Eury, SB's case on Crysta is good, haven't read any of Eury's posts. Blitz is probably scum on .hack meta as well. Refa + Blitz scumteam imo, Refa hasn't commented on the Blitz stuff at all so easy scumbuddy interactions.

Town can make bad cases, especially early on in the game. I didn't feel strongly enough about you to do anything more than refute your case (and honestly, I still don't).

Okay, it's one thing to say I'm forgettable (which is subjective), but can you not lie about my content? I've already stated my stance on Blitz a billion posts ago and everyone and their mother voting him is not going to suddenly change it.

@3rd (WRT my weird focus on Shyguy)- I was annoyed because early on, I was like "yo, if you're town maybe you should do these things" and then he DIDN'T DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS. That's the last time I ever give anyone advice.

[Refa]

Ugh, I feel like I'm not communicating my Eury read well enough but I don't know how to put it any better. Anyways, going through her reads posts.

King Girugameshu- Okay, this is what I was talking about. I dunno why, but it just feels like she's reluctant to scumread him.

Zerobuster- I don't see how Zerosabers spammed D1. Other than that, I don't agree with the read but it's not a bad read.

3rd- Scumread on this slot reads as forced. You just said that unvoting was fine in your ZS case, what changed here?

Crysta- Actually like Eury's response here, mostly because it's what I was thinking WRT Crysta so it must be right.

Life- Sheeping Life's response. I can get Eury being bothered by his tone, but the comments regarding him are kind of dismissive.

Koneko/Mitsuki- Actually has a good point WRT this slot's lack of reads. I thought they had done more but uh...not really (and the only following read since then has been Prims for not doing that much).

Blitz- YES I have something. Okay, her Blitz read is fine in isolation. But it's pretty bad considering that she voted Blitz despite her Zerosabers vote being much more verbose (not to mention she specifically states in her Blitz case that she's not sure if the cases on him have merit). It's not like she voted him for consolidation, so this is like...yeah. #GotEmBoys

Refa- This is a spampost.

Now I'm feeling good.

[SB.]

I already said that not moving the vote isn't a valid scumtell because townies do it all the time by accident or just because they're lazy. Crysta never actually talks about pushing the read either, just the fact that she didn't vote there.

[Mitsuki]

@Refa and Eury: We don't have a lack of reads. We have a lack of townreads, and I have no intention of having those if they're not very obvious to me.
There's other dumb stuff I'm wary of I haven't posted about and we have a scumread from before I scumread Prims (wait until my next post).
I'll post the stuff I'm wary of as well so that you both can get a better idea of my thoughts, but meh. I don't like to give half-assed reads I'm not sure about.

It'd be cool if someone (you know who you are) could mention if he's been online at all recently, though.

I'm not the person you're looking for but I've been asking Vhaltz and he hasn't. Still scum though, but his disappearance should be treated as null.

[Mitsuki]

##FoS: 3rdCorinthian , for the sake of flashyness

Koneko and I are scumreading 3rdCorinthian on his two first content posts. We read those pretty soon and commented on it, Koneko was going to post about it but she hasn't and she's going to be busy today so enough waiting.

I don't like how he unvoted so quickly after his Zerosabers vote. Sure, one of his reasonings was proven wrong (Blitz and Zerosabers hadn't played together before), but the other wasn't (he was suspicious of Zerosabers vote on me). Looks like scared scum. Moreover, when retiring his vote, he says:

To be honest, I'm kinda acting like a smart arse. Just because I've read some games and learnt some terms doesn't makes me skilled in any way.

Which looks like an extremely unnatural way of justifying his actions and I don't think anyone would talk about themselves like this in a honest way. When people feel self-conscious about their skills, this is NOT what they say.

In addition, his tone on all of his three content posts feels plain and passive, I don't see any real drive in his posts.

And going off his most recent post, the last bit on Shyguy also bothers me. I don't like how he explains a good enough townread and then he turns it around by explaining that townreads can be wrong with way more detail. Looks to me as if he's trying to spread paranoia on Shyguy without getting involved because he's a widespread townread.

As for Koneko's read, all I know is that his two first content posts bothered her. We commented on some other logic but then discarded it, but she definitely was still suspicious of 3rdCorinthian. I think it was gut, as she said she would try to find the right words to post about it and she probably didn't because explaining gut is hard. I'm not her though, so I can't say for sure. It's worth mentioning she found him more scummy than Blitz, too.

[Refa]

How much time is left in the phase?

I already said that not moving the vote isn't a valid scumtell because townies do it all the time by accident or just because they're lazy. Crysta never actually talks about pushing the read either, just the fact that she didn't vote there.

FMPOV as someone who's scumreading Eurykins, it's less her not moving the vote that bothers me and more her not having an actual vote. Fair enough on the second part though.

@Refa and Eury: We don't have a lack of reads. We have a lack of townreads, and I have no intention of having those if they're not very obvious to me.
There's other dumb stuff I'm wary of I haven't posted about and we have a scumread from before I scumread Prims (wait until my next post).
I'll post the stuff I'm wary of as well so that you both can get a better idea of my thoughts, but meh. I don't like to give half-assed reads I'm not sure about.

I'm not the person you're looking for but I've been asking Vhaltz and he hasn't. Still scum though, but his disappearance should be treated as null.

I don't mind a lack of townreads (although I just assumed you were intentionally not posting them), and fair enough. Are you waiting to discuss all of your reads with Koneko?

Cool, that's actually pretty helpful. Increases the chances of him getting bussed, anyways (in addition to being Blitz).

[Refa]

CUT

I'd sheep it. Something you didn't mention that I'm noticing is his reply to Eury ("Refa stop talking about Eury" shut up). He has a townread on her, which is fine, but then says that she's suspicious for having the 2nd highest number of votes? Like...what? It comes across as him wanting to have a reason to vote Eurykins. He said something similar regarding Blitz but it doesn't really bother me because he never had a read on Blitz. Also making large reads posts halfway throughout the day with no scumreads is bad and never gets called out enough.

[Zerosabers]

Hey Elie,

No clarification on what happens in the event of a tie means that I'm going to assume Criminal OC lynch mechanics where we can lynch 3 people simultaneously because that was the best idea ever, let's go guys and tie this wagon up.

Is this how you're going to do the lynch if there is a tie?

he hasn't. Still scum though, but his disappearance should be treated as null.

If Blitz really hasn't been able to get on I'd rather not lynch him over Eurykins.

Now for more reading.

[Elieson]

Hey Elie,

Is this how you're going to do the lynch if there is a tie?

Read my posts that have votals in them.

Faerie Knight has been prodded, and has also requested a Sub-out.

[Mitsuki]

I feel pretty embarrassed at my "wary of" reads to be honest. Very embarrassed. I'm just going to copypaste what i wrote in the hydra QT, and hope nobody thinks that's "serious" scumhunting because what the fuck.

Older "reads" (not my thoughts at the moment)

Wary of Life because he's just not doing anything other than complaining and that seems like something he'd do as scum going from what Kaoz and I talked about before the game started. He's fun to read though.

Still wary of Zerosabers because she seems to be trying to appease people rather than actually scumhunt.

(+Prims and 3rdCorinthian, but I've cased them)

Newer "reads" (thinking about them)

Wary of Crysta for weird wording. Wary of Baldrick for too much of a neutral tone and general agreeing with others.

@Zerosabers: Why would you rather not lynch someone you have a scumread on just because they haven't appeared? That doesn't magically change their alignment. Always aim for the lynch of whoever you think has the most chances to flip scum.

[The3rdCorinthian]

CUT

I'd sheep it. Something you didn't mention that I'm noticing is his reply to Eury ("Refa stop talking about Eury" shut up). He has a townread on her, which is fine, but then says that she's suspicious for having the 2nd highest number of votes? Like...what? It comes across as him wanting to have a reason to vote Eurykins. He said something similar regarding Blitz but it doesn't really bother me because he never had a read on Blitz. Also making large reads posts halfway throughout the day with no scumreads is bad and never gets called out enough.

Reason for this is because, if Eury has the 2nd highest vote count, then something about her actions must be tipping other people off. Whilst I haven't particularly noticed anything, maybe i missed something. I'm asking about why the people voting for her think she's scummy so i can make an educated guess as to whether or not my townread on her is accurate, or just a lack of pattern recognition.

As for Blitz, I don't know him as well as Mitsuki and the others do. I know he likes asking lots of questions, but i don't know how to identify whther or not those questions are meaningful or not. I did't vote because I want Blitz to speak up for himself. If he does, and he still looks scummy after that, or it gets close to 0 hour, i'm all for lynching him. But i'd rather us be sure first.

##FoS: 3rdCorinthian , for the sake of flashyness

Koneko and I are scumreading 3rdCorinthian on his two first content posts. We read those pretty soon and commented on it, Koneko was going to post about it but she hasn't and she's going to be busy today so enough waiting.

I don't like how he unvoted so quickly after his Zerosabers vote. Sure, one of his reasonings was proven wrong (Blitz and Zerosabers hadn't played together before), but the other wasn't (he was suspicious of Zerosabers vote on me). Looks like scared scum. Moreover, when retiring his vote, he says:

Which looks like an extremely unnatural way of justifying his actions and I don't think anyone would talk about themselves like this in a honest way. When people feel self-conscious about their skills, this is NOT what they say.

If i didn't post it in the follow up thread, I noticed that Zero actually dropped his read on you when the Blitz one came along. I thought that someone who was scum would be more likely to push a wagon over the edge than moving on to someone they genuinely found more suspicious. Yes a scum zero could have done that as well, but I honestly didn't think that at the time.

Also, sorry for being honest? I genuinely worry about seeming like a know it all in front of people, and I do have a tendency to act as if i'm some kind of expert when all i've done is read a few things. I thought it would annoy people, so i tried to explain in case people were irritated. I know that doesn't sound like a convincing argument.

In addition, his tone on all of his three content posts feels plain and passive, I don't see any real drive in his posts.

I don't know what kind of drive you expect to see from a player. If you mean that I'm not scumhunting enough, I'll try harder. If you mean that I'm using passive/relaxed language, sorry about that. I guess its just how i post.

And going off his most recent post, the last bit on Shyguy also bothers me. I don't like how he explains a good enough townread and then he turns it around by explaining that townreads can be wrong with way more detail. Looks to me as if he's trying to spread paranoia on Shyguy without getting involved because he's a widespread townread.

The reason for why i said that is partly down to Refa's early focusing. It's not that i think Refa is scum - Far from it - But it did make me wonder if he might just be really good at pretending to be town. I fully admit, i made that description of why i'm keeping an eye on him way too long. I guess my thought process was that i don't entirely trust him because he is such a widespread townread, and thus my paranoia is pointing fingers, And jumping at what are in all likelihood shadows.

[Clarinets]

@3rd (WRT my weird focus on Shyguy)- I was annoyed because early on, I was like "yo, if you're town maybe you should do these things" and then he DIDN'T DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS. That's the last time I ever give anyone advice.

I probably didn't because early on I forgot that mafia is a game where you think. That's really all I can come up with, so sorry I ignored you.

The3rdCorinthian's post about Mitsuki's scumread on him seem like pretty realistic explanations so I think he's pretty towny.

I'll go try to read through the new posts better but I really want to hack Fire Emblem so don't expect much.

[Zerosabers]

@The3rd, It's she.

@Mitsuki, It seemed rude when he can't defend himself, and I'd rather lynch Eurykins at this point.

As I said before I wanted to see how the points against her were addressed. I'd rather bet on her flipping scum than Blitz after reading her wall post, this, and this.

I've got to finish a paper so #sheeping time. The phase will probably end before I get back on unless I can make a post in the morning.

##Unvote
##Vote: Eurykins

[Clarinets]

I'm busy for the next 36 hours or so but Baldrick/SB do you agree with my interpretation that Refa is oddly forgettable? I know he's been busy but it's not really the lack of content bothering me it's that the quality isn't good enough to leave an impression. Would also like Eury to explain what she meant by Refa spam posting because it doesn't really feel like he was.

I don't understand why you asked these people in particular when

1. There's other people playing, sure, they might've been the only ones on at the moment but players look at this thread all the time.

2. You already posted about your Refa interpretation and if people were interested they probably would've posted something in response to it.

I don't know, that's really the only weird thing I could find right now. Yay, let's go hack Fire Emblem!

Oh, and I still will just miss the final votes at the end of night one, so if you could maybe expand the timer by a half hour that would give me enough time to read through and maybe change my vote at the last second. I'm just worried that I'll be voting something that is confirmed to be a bad idea when the votes are counted and that seems pretty redundant.

[Baldrick]

@SB: I was projecting my own Eury read (that she was passive and waiting for things to happen) on to her. She did say Eury was not following through later, but that was after the wagon had developed.

@kirsche: I agree Refa hasn't done much, but I find him to be more proactive as scum. So I think it's more likely that's he actually busy rather than trying to go under the radar.

@3rd: read the cases of people voting Eury. Do you agree with them? Why/why not?

@Zero: If blitz was here, would those posts still make you switch to eury?

[Refa]

If it looks like I'm doing less than past games, that's because I'm 1) not posting townreads 2) conscientiously avoiding spamming the thread (especially on D1) and 3) a lot of my scumreads aren't posting all that much (Eurykins, Blitz, 3rd is posting a decent amount but still bothered by his lack of scumreads). That being said, pretty sure Kirsche was getting on my case for the quality of my content over the quantity (which doesn't really bother me because it's not putting any unfair expectations on what I should or shouldn't be doing as town).

Also shouldn't Blitz have been pinged by now? He hasn't posted in over 24 hours IIRC.

[Baldrick]

If your scumreads don't post much, you need to find new ones. Like so!

##vote: Crysta

The initial Eury case was actually a bit nitpicky, and it feels like you're using OMGUS to hold it up. It being "more noticeably bad" doesn't mean anything; her use of her vote wouldn't have been any better if the RVS vote had been on anyone else.

Your other point is hesitant ("it may just be a peeve of mine"), like you're giving yourself a way to back off the read later.

What are your other reads?

[Prims]

I'm in class.

Mitsuki, why are you ignoring me if you think I'm scum.

[ZoesMad]

Wow I never made the post. Incoming

[Crysta]

I'll be replying to stuff at an outlandish hour again because I'm at work and on my phone. And Target gave me a 6 day work week comprised of mostly late night shifts. Fuck phone posting.

[ZoesMad]

an omgus isn't really random lol; it's made in response to a vote on you. random would be random.

it's fine if you don't put much weight in it; it's not exactly the strongest point against her. though she's still on it (same with iz).

But it was cast without serious intent, so for all purposes it is random. It just feels like hounding on something when there's really nothing there to scumread.

Life did a good job of turning his gut feeling on Eury into a pseudo reaction test and I think he came away with something in the end. Starting to townread him also just for his really blunt and honest tone which I find that scum would usually be a bit less ballsy.

Eury's post is super empty and Prims pointed out pretty much everything I could say right here in #183.

Kitsuki's later posts have some points I agree with and some I don't, but town reading for effort. I think your 3rd Corinthian scumread ( not on the smart ass part more for not having any scumreads) has merit, but your zero one doesn't. Saying that she isn't scumhunting isn't true considering she's been inactive for quite some time and her last major content was analyzing why Blitz's questions weren't useful (something nobody had done because we all new they were bad) which for a newer player seems like a good place to start scumhunting.

Kirsche is right about him not posting frequently in the earlier segments of the game. In Fe9, Time Travel, and .hack he had pretty much the same amount (content wise, the 50 page D1 of .hack balloons everything a bit) so I guess I was wrong on this read.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Eurykins

I also haven't seen Blitz online fwiw. He really needs to answer what people have been saying and his post is obviously bad but Eury has had more actively scummier content than Blitz's one post rn. I also am seeing the .hack similarities that SB noted, so come deadline would easily switch to him, especially if his late day content is sub par.

[Refa]

Don't talk about active games jeez.

[Eurykins]

Really fucking tired, not feeling well, and likely the only post I'll be able to make tonight. Might be around for a few minutes if anymore questions arise, but that's about all you'll probably get out of me at this point.

This. This I want to talk about.

My vote on Eury was simply a random gut feeling. As in, just a feeling from looking at the player list. But the fact that you're attempting to brush it off with a "well it's Life, he doesn't like NOC which makes him pointless" response has actually piqued my interest.

I think that you feel rattled. There's no reason to harp on the fact that I don't like NOC... unless you're trying to discredit my vote for any given reason. It feels like you're trying to get everyone to believe that I don't really give two fucks about the game (which I do but not in the way you might think) and so that anything I say should immediately be tossed out the window.

My vote just went from "random gut feeling" to "you're worried that I might have stumbled onto something".

Okay, several fucking things about this post (mildly irrate that there's blatant misrepping of what I said vs. what you're saying that I said):

1. I never once said the phrase "him not liking NOC games makes him/his slot pointless". The fact is, you spent the good part of ED1 literally just bitching at the fact that it's an NOC game and not OC, insulting the rest of the player base, and quite frankly, acting like an asshole with most of your assertions while also assuming that you rise well above all the rest (the egos, man). That is the only reason why I stated that I heavily disliked even reading your ISO, and that I was not bothered/concerned in terms of trying to even figure out your slot (for myself, not as/for anyone else) currently. I did not say that your slot in general was irrelevant and should be viewed as useless or pointless or whatever the fuck you seemed to garner from my notions.

2.There was little to no scum hunting happening in your posts, and you were just sitting on my slot because "gut read" and nothing else. So again, there was nothing to even interest me in terms of your slot content-wise, and the usage of said tones above really made things unpleasant to read. So that was partially my general preference + the fact that I really wasn't missing out much in terms of scum/town reads from your posts at that point in time.

3. The only thing that's "rattled" or otherwise annoyed me is the fact is the way you're choosing to post in this game, like you have zero reason to fully participate in the NOC manner/general posting manner because of the fact that you only joined an NOC game because you're bored. I don't want to sit around and read shit posts that do nothing but bitch and moan and don't even care to actually do things like scum hunt or interact with people in a semi-respectful manner, and if I choose to ignore your slot as a result, then that is my choice, and does NOT imply that I am here telling everyone else that they should do the same (whether they do or not is their choice and their choice alone). Also, mildly "rattled"/annoyed that you're attempting to warp things as heavily as you are, in terms of trying to make me out to be scummy for it.

Refa is incredibly forgettable and definitely not spamposting (LolEury?), his response to my obviously flawed case was not nearly as assertive as it usually is from town!Refa. Might just be finals but this is scum!Refa meta in a nutshell so content with this vote.

Gaius voting me for "just doing enough to get by" hasn't realised that I do that as all alignments because god knows I don't want to read all these fucking wall posts anymore so I don't and post enough to get me to *ylo where I can tolerate doing it.

Liking Life's case on Eury, SB's case on Crysta is good, haven't read any of Eury's posts. Blitz is probably scum on .hack meta as well. Refa + Blitz scumteam imo, Refa hasn't commented on the Blitz stuff at all so easy scumbuddy interactions.

Eury/Refa/Blitz all scum. No clarification on what happens in the event of a tie means that I'm going to assume Criminal OC lynch mechanics where we can lynch 3 people simultaneously because that was the best idea ever, let's go guys and tie this wagon up.

Clarification (since it was apparently mentioned a few times): What I meant about Refa "spam posting early game" was the fact that he was basically shit posting for a good handful of his first posts after RVS. No meaningful content yet making multiple posts therein = basically spamming the thread.

Thoughts on Eury's reads post upcoming so I can put off rereading it. I got something from Prims' reaction though. Eury typically doesn't have problems coming up with scumreads (as town) so her behavior here comes as odd; in SFMM4, she was scumreading half of the playerlist. To be more specific, it's less her having 3 scumreads that bothers me and more that she had so much filler content.

Refa, please. Are you serious? You do realize that in most of my latest games played (in terms of honoring certain requests/thoughts from other senior better players than myself), I've also done things as town to modify/shorten posts, narrow down scum reads (ergo my "scum reads" in most of my latest games have actually been more focused down as opposed to "half of the player list"), and other changes? Unless you really want me to just slap "scum reads" on most of my currently neutral reads that I find questionable, but I don't really see that as helping much.

PS. This is yet another game you've attempted to hold this as part of my "OMG EURY'S NOT STICKING TO HER META" kind of bullshit when it really hasn't been that way for a good couple of games that I've done/played in. Once again, mildly irritating as it's pretty inaccurate at this point.

@The3rd, It's she.

@Mitsuki, It seemed rude when he can't defend himself, and I'd rather lynch Eurykins at this point.

As I said before I wanted to see how the points against her were addressed. I'd rather bet on her flipping scum than Blitz after reading her wall post, this, and this.

I've got to finish a paper so #sheeping time. The phase will probably end before I get back on unless I can make a post in the morning.

##Unvote
##Vote: Eurykins

Easy as fuck vote, really?

But it was cast without serious intent, so for all purposes it is random. It just feels like hounding on something when there's really nothing there to scumread.

Life did a good job of turning his gut feeling on Eury into a pseudo reaction test and I think he came away with something in the end. Starting to townread him also just for his really blunt and honest tone which I find that scum would usually be a bit less ballsy.

Eury's post is super empty and Prims pointed out pretty much everything I could say right here in #183.

Kitsuki's later posts have some points I agree with and some I don't, but town reading for effort. I think your 3rd Corinthian scumread ( not on the smart ass part more for not having any scumreads) has merit, but your zero one doesn't. Saying that she isn't scumhunting isn't true considering she's been inactive for quite some time and her last major content was analyzing why Blitz's questions weren't useful (something nobody had done because we all new they were bad) which for a newer player seems like a good place to start scumhunting.

Kirsche is right about him not posting frequently in the earlier segments of the game. In Fe9, Time Travel, and .hack he had pretty much the same amount (content wise, the 50 page D1 of .hack balloons everything a bit) so I guess I was wrong on this read.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Eurykins

I also haven't seen Blitz online fwiw. He really needs to answer what people have been saying and his post is obviously bad but Eury has had more actively scummier content than Blitz's one post rn. I also am seeing the .hack similarities that SB noted, so come deadline would easily switch to him, especially if his late day content is sub par.

Mkay. So taking 4-5 hours in actually thinking things through and posting them somehow = "empty post". I suppose it's time for me to just spam-post this game and not care about any sort of in-depth reads or cases.

BTW, I don't know if I'll be on for phase end. I have tomorrow off, but have errands to run, people to see, etc. and I can't be bothered to remember when exactly phase end time is for me/in my time zone at the moment.

My priorities haven't really changed much at all, though Zero seems like he's taking the ezpz way out and the blatant sheeping/vote-sitting is kinda bad/scummish IMO. Refa's gameplay/casing seems weak at best, and idk if this is just simple grasping or attempts to misrep as well, and Life's "reaction test" was poor at best.