Ragnarok Online Mafia [Game Over]

[Mitsuki]

Actually I have time, because it's a holiday in Barcelona.

Why the Eury cases suck, pt 2: Featuring Gaius, who sucks

Lord Gaius:
- Eury didn't give a precise enough explanation on why she thought the wagon on us was bad/scummy
She gave a proper explanation on why it was bad. She didn't say that people were scummy because of voting us. Either way, you can get the feeling that a wagon is not good even if you're not townreading the person the wagon has formed on, and not scumreading anyone in the wagon. Ironically, that's my instance on the Eury wagon now.

- Eury's post is super empty
That's just Eury's playerstyle, and it's not even as bad as what she used to do before. If you're referring to something specific that is different from her usual meta point it out, but I'm not seeing anything myself.

@mitsuki: You keep saying that i'm being passive, but I still don't understand what you mean by this. Could you please clarify?

It's not just about being passive, it's how your tone is super plain and I don't see any particular feelings towards any of the facts you state. When people post, I can see their feelings towards their reads and towards the other players, conviction, fear, anger, motivation... yet your posts were just devoid of emotion, and there's a mismatch between your words and emotions. That makes them seem scummy in my eyes, since I believe that you just lack those because you're faking what you write.

I still need to think about your more recent posts.

[SB.]

@zero, how is Blitz's limited access to SF linked to his alignment? It feels like you're avoiding really giving a definitive stance on him.

I'm in a weird situation with the Eury cases now where I don't really disagree with them but I don't feel like she's scum either. I don't think Eury would get annoyed at Life's case on her as scum and I don't feel like she's the type to fake emotion either.

Something about Mitsuki's tone this game is bugging me but I can't work out what it is yet.

Still feel like Blitz is the right way to go at deadline even if my vote doesn't reflect that. Haven't caught up yet fully, taking out my dog before I attempt to conquer the great wallposts of page 13.

[Clarinets]

Sorry guys, I couldn't find anything and I still don't agree with the Eurykins cases (and Mitsuki's practically covering that for me) so I'll just vote Blitz, which I hope doesn't turn out to be a dumb vote by the time I get back from school a half hour after the final votals which is still inconvenient for me.

[Izhuark]

Okay, sorry everyone, i was feeling really down yesterday (and maybe the whole week) and wasn't in the mindset for mafia (nor anything that required me to think actively btw). My lately play was really bad (or at least not productive as it's should be) and can be easily consired to be an anti-town comportement on D1 and it totally understand that. Thank anyway refa it reassure me a bit. Anyway I will make a listpost and respond to question when i will have some times after i have grasp on the situation.

The point i made in FE9 mafia still stand here : whathever you do, don't hammer D1 ! Blitz is suspicious it's true but don't hammer him without letting him a chance to respond to his accusation.

Also do you people think rolespec is useful on D1 ? Because i have some confirmed (like 80% sure) informations on that.

[The3rdCorinthian]

Crysta, aside from Eury's OMGUS post, what other actions has she done that have her as your top Scumread? It is good to see that you are stopping to analyse the other players though. Good point on the blitz vote, I just felt that I had to use my vote really cautiously for some reason.

Besides, I can always unvote if needs be.

##unvote

##Vote Blitz

Life, what the heck, suddenly HAM. I know that you've got a case against Eury, but why the sudden bout of aggression? Sure, if you think she's scum, build a wagon, but that just looked mean.

And Mitsuki, you're kinda right. Not about the scum part, but about how I feel when writing these posts up. I don't know how else to explain it, but I do feel very detatched when I'm typing up an argument. Its weird, but I don't really know how to get that tone across in my posts.

Also, everybody, Who's you're biggest Townread right now? Mines Refa.

[Mitsuki]

1) I don't agree, especially at that point in the game. Scum can dick around more easily if they wanted to - but I expect them to be more cautious and follow wagons tbh. It is productive to get out of RVS, even if it means pursuing less-than-convincing cases, and I don't think saying you were being suspicious but quickly adding you may just be shoving us out of RVS to be productive in a townie manner

When I roll scum and see the chance to have an original case I jump at it immediately, because it looks good. It is productive to get out of RVS indeed, but I don't think not doing something to get out of RVS is a scumtell.

3) You don't have a secondary scumread? Or wouldn't at least try to get one? I can't say I'd be as certain of a vote on Blitz/zero/izhuark but I'd at least vote there.

I get what you mean and I would if I had to, but when you don't have conviction about a read and it's not deadline voting there seems a matter of how impulsive someone is to me.

[Mitsuki]

Also do you people think rolespec is useful on D1 ? Because i have some confirmed (like 80% sure) informations on that.

I recommend not to rolespec unless you're very sure that what you're doing will be useful.

Also, everybody, Who's you're biggest Townread right now? Mines Refa.

Koneko.

[Crysta]

Crysta, aside from Eury's OMGUS post, what other actions has she done that have her as your top Scumread? It is good to see that you are stopping to analyse the other players though. Good point on the blitz vote, I just felt that I had to use my vote really cautiously for some reason.

It's more what she didn't do in the posts after that. I expect voting to happen, even if the vote doesn't stick. I expect pursuit. She's having difficulty reading the rest of the game, and I understand that, but it seemed needlessly passive to me.

When I roll scum and see the chance to have an original case I jump at it immediately, because it looks good. It is productive to get out of RVS indeed, but I don't think not doing something to get out of RVS is a scumtell.

I get what you mean and I would if I had to, but when you don't have conviction about a read and it's not deadline voting there seems a matter of how impulsive someone is to me.

I think we may just act differently as scum, then. It was different than simply not doing anything; she did post her suspicions but quickly tagged on "but she might just be trying to shove us out of RVS/might be joking"; I think it would have been better to let others react to the shove first and possibly draw conclusions from that.

Impulsive voting looks a little obvious to me, tbh, and I don't think you should be reluctant to put a vote on the slot you are eyeing if you have some justification behind it if you're town. And RVS votes are impulsive by nature; I don't think it was an issue, in fact I would have liked it better lol.

Iz, Blitz hasn't been online since the 21st. I don't think he's coming. Why did you come to his defense, anyway?

I'm reluctant to put my faith in my townreads on D1. They'll become more obvious as the game continues. You can generally assume the people I haven't questioned yet are at least null reads (and those outnumber the townreads at the moment).

[Prims]

It is productive to get out of RVS indeed, but I don't think not doing something to get out of RVS is a scumtell.

Partially because of what Shyguy said and partially because as town I'd expect Prims to be doing more than he has. I don't mean that he'd be posting a lot, but he'd definitely be getting the game going.

caught in a lie do not let this mafia member live to LYLO

Prims, what's your read on Eury right now?

I didn't like Eury's big spoiler-tag post and lynching her wouldn't be the end of the world but if you put a gun to my head I'd say she's TOWN who got FRUSTRATED and is being WHITED KNIGHTED for BROWNIE POINTS by MITSUKI who is SCUM

Blitz is probably having internet trouble but of the two big wagons I'd rather lynch him off his lackluster intro post still. Also @Life you never got back to me about him.

It's too late to get a wagon going with being stupid about it but my biggest suspicion at this point is Gaius. Gaius voting Life then removing it just because he didn't think he'd get anywhere after Life posts some jerkposts mite b scum!Gaius testing the waters then getting out of there because he didn't want attention if he kept it up.

Besides that, Gaius' town reads just talk about people for the sake of it (Life and the Mitsuki slot here, Shyguy here) even though people aren't seriously discrediting those players, and despite having reasons to vote Blitz and Eury here he goes with the kirsche vote that soon gets dropped despite the fact that you could apply his kirsche case more strongly to Blitz. It really looks like he's just saying stuff about random players to stay relevant rather than coherently push any read.

This 3rdCorinthian post is bizarre because the Life post he was responding to has probably been one of the softer Life posts this game. Besides that I don't like 3rdCorinthian's posts too much because like Gaius he talks a lot including when it doesn't matter. People've cased him already and yeah I can get behind it.

Hey Crysta you also talk way too much for D1 but I think you're town on gut so whatever but yeah tear down those walls plz

@Izhuark: do you scumread Eury? because she's a big wagon and your jokevote is still contributing to it

SB you Just Feel Like Mafia , do something about this

[Prims]

*wagon on him going without being stupid about it

as in it's 2015, let's not turbolynch people in D1 of a NOC game when we have two competing wagons

[Mitsuki]

Do I have to reply about why you're wrong about me or do you already know that you are and I can just ignore it?

Either way those posts are better. See? You didn't need to waste your time on dumb responses and could just have posted reads instead!

[SB.]

SB you Just Feel Like Mafia , do something about this

No.

Taken care of things, posting now.

[Prims]

mitsuki is fake as fuck this game "duhhhh here's why the wagon on this player who only has four non-joke-votes and can clearly defend themself is bad, i don't think she's town though lol"

why expend this much effort on a null read even if you don't like the wagon? what do you want the players voting eury to be doing instead?

her read on me was always bad but it's 1000x worse now that she says not trying to get out of RVS isn't scummy because that means it's 100% meta and anybody with a decent grip on how I play should know I will tactically lurk as town D1 depending on the situation esp. in games with more posts

"You are a passive suspicion, but that's because I'm waiting for you to post more content." why were you not trying to get me to post more relevant content?

"if you think what I'm doing doesn't fit my town play why are you doing nothing about it" I was I was trying to goad you into saying something relevant to me if you were town with a bad read I seriously hope you weren't expecting for a vote at this point in the day. What was the point of this question.

buddying shyguy was pointless, blitz vote is OK but the entire system of "hey the person who isn't actively posting in-thread is the one who makes the votes" sucks. why blitz over 3rdcorinthian?

[Prims]

Either way those posts are better. See? You didn't need to waste your time on dumb responses and could just have posted reads instead!

they're not anything I couldn't put out as scum and you know this, please get dead

[Prims]

No.

ok your new post better be good or I am gonna armchair psych the FUCK out of this scum response and get you lynched

[Baldrick]

@Crysta:

It is productive to get out of RVS, even if it means pursuing less-than-convincing cases, and I don't think saying you were being suspicious but quickly adding you may just be shoving us out of RVS to be productive in a townie manner.

If I'm reading this right, you acknowledge that with Eury's opinion of Mitsuki being what it was ED1, it wouldn't have been productive to push her, so why do you think she should have moved her vote to Mitsuki?

I can't actually tell what you think of Life/Izuhark, could you elaborate on those reads?

@Mitsuki: I've found excessive emotion can cloud your judgment when scumhunting, so personally I don't mind 3rd's detached approach. I agree it's unusual, but not particularly alignment-indicative since it's not hard to fake emotion.

[The3rdCorinthian]

With regards to the life post, this didn't even feel like life trying to get a proper reaction out. It just felt like Life was being aggressive. Even if they are legitimate tactics or scumhunting, it still felt like he was being kind of a jerk. And whilst he has been doing this the whole game, at least in some of his other posts he was trying to expand his Eury read.

I talk a lot? doesn't really suprise me, I end up retyping out the same sentence over and over again until i feel like it works.

Gonna do some ISO reading, see if i missed something (particularly on eury and Mitsuki), and reflect on who wants to see me dead. Which I know is everybody ​ .

[Baldrick]

Two questions.

If Blitz hasn't been on in 48+ hours how likely is he to turn up in the next 6?

If we hammer this phase can we save our "get out of hammer free" card until a later phase where we'll probably need it more?

[Prims]

Baldrick, Corinthian posting in a passive / detached tone is fine by itself, but when you read his posts what he's talking about passively is mostly observations. He has few reads but rather than look for a read and post slim content until he has it he waffles on about everybody. Also he needed to poked for a vote even though he did have at least one vote target in his posts up until that post. Why hold off on a vote as town? He himself admitted he can change it whenever, how did that only occur to him just now?

I think Gaius / Corinthian's the best place to look for scum out of the active players. Blitz is a worthy D1 sacrifice and Mitsuki I'm 50/50 on because I don't like the slot's posts but we have similar reads so I'd rather wait until some flips happen before going anywhere with that.

[Crysta]

@Crysta:

If I'm reading this right, you acknowledge that with Eury's opinion of Mitsuki being what it was ED1, it wouldn't have been productive to push her, so why do you think she should have moved her vote to Mitsuki?

I can't actually tell what you think of Life/Izuhark, could you elaborate on those reads?

@Mitsuki: I've found excessive emotion can cloud your judgment when scumhunting, so personally I don't mind 3rd's detached approach. I agree it's unusual, but not particularly alignment-indicative since it's not hard to fake emotion.

it would have been more productive to let mitsuki do the shove without immediately telling everyone that it may be just a shove don't looking too much into it - and voting on her slight suspicion. what she did didn't really get us anywhere.

life is null - his behavior isn't pinging me one way or the other. i don't think eury's annoyance in regards to him is a scumtell.

so is izhuark, but i have no idea what he's thinking and i'm hoping to get enlightened.

oh look more replies but i'm too slow to click the notification fml i'm just posting this and going to sleep

[Elieson]

Just under 8 hours. I'll have vote count up in a bit.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Elieson

[SB.]

ok your new post better be good or I am gonna armchair psych the FUCK out of this scum response and get you lynched

Making good posts is too much effort. This is not entirely a joke.

Starting to think 3rd is town because of his analysis of the Eury wagon where he had the opportunity to come out with multiple suspicions (which iirc someone attacked him for not having) but in the end decides that he's only scumreading one person on the wagon. Idk, I feel like if he was maf it would've been easy for him to attack pretty much anyone on it and would probably look better for doing it. Explanations are hard.

Crysta is clearly lying scum because there's no way you can make such a huge post on a phone. Realtalk, I'm kind of having trouble making sense of her response and it feels really all over the place. It still doesn't really address why this particular OMGUS from Eury was bad and the Blitz thing reads kind of like damage control although I'm kind of wary that it's just confirmation bias. Her other reads don't really seem to have any conclusions either which doesn't really make me feel better.

Mitsuki, why have you shifted from complaining when people question each other's cases from writing long wallposts about why the Eury wagon is bad? I'm kinda wary of the slot after reskimming because it feels like she's getting needlessly aggressive in some posts in a way that feels kind of fake (the Gaius response here and her response to Prims here) along with the trying to shut down discussion thing I mentioned earlier.

[ZoesMad]

I'm subbing out for irl reasons but I'm gonna do one final post and try and explain some of my stuff better.

're one of my favorite posters). ;_;

Leaf Green: What bothers me here is that he's asking a lot of questions but he's not actually getting anything out of them (assuming people haven't noticed because it's interspersed with content). I'm also not seeing the scum intent getting pointed out in either his Life or Kirsche votes (and he easily dropped his Kirsche read even though Kirsche only proved him wrong on a minor point). Also it's contradictory to townread Koneko/Mitsuki for effort and vote Eurykins.

I'd also take a second look at Zerobuster (and LG) if Blitz flipped scum, mostly because her voteswitch read as unnatural.

These aren't really scummy things. My Kirsche case wasn't good and I've had problems with making a case and then pushing it too hard so I don't want fall into a tunnel again this game. And you can townread someone despite having different reads than them, so I don't see why it's mutually exclusive.

Prims, what do you mean that I'm just talking about random people? If you're going to scumread me for giving out some town reads there's not much I can do. Who cares if they haven't been scumread by too many people, I can still give my reads.

I think Eury, Blitz, and Corinthian are good places to lynch, town reading Kitsuki, Life, and ShyGuy, rest are in the middle.

[Prims]

"If you're going to scumread me for giving out some town reads" is weirdly minimalizing my case. people weren't trying to lynch your town reads and this is D1 so these aren't really big solid cases for these players being town, why focus on them instead of focusing on who's scum?

subbing out is *shrug* (im scorri), can we get eclipse in the fairy knight slot though please

[Baldrick]

@prims: IMO Corinthian's got a fair amount of conclusions to go with his obversations. Posting slim content until he has a read sounds more like the behaviour of newbscum who doesn't want to draw too much attention. I find newbtowns tend to be more conservative with their vote because they don't see its potential as a tool.

@crysta: I get what you mean now

What made you take note of their behaviour? Do you think it's more likely to come from town or scum?

@gaius: how do your townreads help us to catch scum?