Skinship is out, says kotaku (new info on page 71)

[nordopolica]

I still don't think kotaku would deliberately spread misinformation (wait for it) AND stick to their guns, fabricating proof all the while, for so long while they're under so much fire. Unless this is a huge misunderstanding (which is more than likely given their track record) and Nintendo's statement to the author was miconstrued into being something bigger than it is, I think it's pretty likely. Whatever, I'm sure this storm will pass.

There's likely a casual audience who don't go searching for gaming news/ are unaware of any controversy or changes and will still buy the game, as was the case with Awakening.

[Great Merchant]

I really doubt that Nintendo is going to release any information regarding Skinship. First, Nintendo has history of not releasing information that are not favorable for sales. When Nintendo released Super Smash Brothers 4 in Korea, they did not translate trophies. Of course, they intentionally hid any information regarding trophies, so people had no idea until they actually bought a copy. People are angry, but what can they do? Game play is still possible. Just a big chunk of translation is left untouched. So, Nintendo responds with no refund policy.

Also, press release regarding Skinship is going to anger a group of people anyway, so what is a point of releasing the information it before official release of the game?

I hate to say this, but both possibilities are still there. The thing is we are not likely to hear anything from Nintendo until the official release.

[Ebony]

If they count this as freedom of speech, I'm exercising my right to bear arms. That's a joke, I'm Australian and we don't have that here. I also prefer knives, but that's neither here nor there...

damn dude you dont even need to bear arms, you just need to take any animal out of your backyard and send it to someone

ITS WHAT THEY GET FOR THEIR... misinformation...?

[Busterman64]

Damn what the hell happened? I was gone for 4 hours and the thread exploded into World War 3.

Now you know how I felt when I decided to left this discussion for most of today and come back many hours later(...somewhat)!

^^

Welcome to the Forest!

I know sometimes, I myself can get heated in a discussion on this site and then immediately regret it after because I really realize I've been hilariously dumb, don't make the same mistakes lol.

So..yeah seeing people angry/upset/salty/what have you, on topics like these is pretty common, it'll be alright though. I swear this site is good and quite enjoyable. But it's full of nice great folks here, (if not) most of us just have strong opinions/things to say about something we care about a lot (FE). We all love Fire Emblem here since we've joined so I think it has to count for something! Enjoy it here!

(sorry for the kinda long post lmao)

I've been on here since last year in the beginning of summer, although I didn't really come on a lot more until these past few months. It's surprising how heated discussions get sometimes. Then again, I haven't really been in any heated discussions until Corrin and Bayonetta because Smash 4 DLC and I didn't really get into the mix of a REALLY heated discussion until...well...this one. I'm happy that people don't go extremely bonkers when trying to get a point across like some other sites (who start to go WAAAY over board when thing get too hot). They try to keep a leveled head here from what I've seen. Also, it's nice to have a place I can go to where everyone at least somewhat understands and likes what I love, which is Fire Emblem (because it sucks when you know only one other person in your personal life that actually even likes Fire Emblem, not that I can really go into deep discussion with them though...oh well...)!

I'd be pretty upset if it was a public stunt put together on Nintendo's part, but they definitely don't seem the type of company to sink this low. I mean, they aren't struggling enough as far as I can tell to do something like this.

If it was all orchestrated by Kotaku, well, they'll be gaining a lot more hate than ever before.

Kotaku is gonna get it BAD if this is all wrong! They're gonna get burned...Dying Blaze burned! Edited January 29, 2016 by Busterman64

[Phoenix_Kensai]

I don't exactly have a high opinion of Kotaku either, but if they're wrong about this, I feel it's more likely due to miscommunication than a deliberate lie. "I asked an external PR person and they told me so" is kind of a sketchy source, I think, especially considering that the quote we got accused the author of misunderstanding. I find it easy to imagine that neither side really knew what they were talking about.

...Then again, I also find it easy to imagine Nintendo removing the skinship thing, so I dunno. I admit I'll be a bit disappointed if it's gone, but it won't affect my decision to buy the game; I thought it was weird and silly when I first heard about it, but that's why I kind of wanted to try it myself, even if I'd likely forget about it after a few minutes.

I just hope they don't strip it out and leave nothing in its place. Watching some videos, there's more there than I thought, and I'd be sad to see it all tossed out.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I don't exactly have a high opinion of Kotaku either, but if they're wrong about this, I feel it's more likely due to miscommunication than a deliberate lie. "I asked an external PR person and they told me so" is kind of a sketchy source, I think, especially considering that the quote we got accused the author of misunderstanding. I find it easy to imagine that neither side really knew what they were talking about.

...Then again, I also find it easy to imagine Nintendo removing the skinship thing, so I dunno. I admit I'll be a bit disappointed if it's gone, but it won't affect my decision to buy the game; I thought it was weird and silly when I first heard about it, but that's why I kind of wanted to try it myself, even if I'd likely forget about it after a few minutes.

I just hope they don't strip it out and leave nothing in its place. Watching some videos, there's more there than I thought, and I'd be sad to see it all tossed out.

That'll probably be why though. If they're wrong, all 46 pages of this thread, not to mention the backlash and salt from other places all could've been avoided if the 'journalist' hadn't jumped the gun and written an entire article about skinship being cut out 'because some guy told me it was'. Besides, isn't writing an article based on 'he said, she said' without being able to cite an official source and without any evidence that it was said a shitty thing to do from a journalistic and business standpoint?

Edited January 29, 2016 by Phillius

[Together We Ride]

Nope, there's reasons. Here's what I've got off the top of my head:

- Back room damage control (in other words, they're stalling for time)

- Drumming up publicity for the game itself (in which case, EVERYONE is in on it, and it's a stupidly shady tactic)

- Some other behind-the-scenes shit which we the public aren't privy too

In the case of the first one, if it is a true fuck-up, that writer will probably be let go as soon as Nintendo makes some sort of official statement. In the case of the second one, we'll see no change in regards to Kotaku. In the case of the last one, the behind-the-scenes shit will have to resolve itself, and we'll most likely be in the dark for a while.

Regardless, Kotaku's in really deep, and it will be interesting to see what happens.

Now I won't go around pretending like I know much about Kotaku's ethics or motives; I avoided all that Gamergate nonsense for a reason, but to me anybody with a sliver of intellect would know those are all terribly shitty reasons to push a blatant lie this far.

The first reason would clearly create much more damage, rather than fix it. If this really were a false report, doctoring an email would only add to the eruption of problems that would eventually come out once they were proven wrong. If the guy lied and they were trying to cover it up, why wouldn't they just say "Oops sorry, we misunderstood what was said" immediately?

The second reason is the most logical of what was listed... but that's not saying much. While clearly Kotaku and this journalist would be viciously thrown under the bus and suffer greatly from it, I suppose Nintendo might benefit from this controversy financially perhaps, but there's also a great chance that they too would see repercussions. Their strategy of staying completely silent while this "lie" is spread could get fans upset at them too, since they could have quelled their fears a long time ago. If anything, the silence from Nintendo seems to be indicating that what Kotaku says is true, at least to me.

I won't give my thoughts on the last reason because... well, I can't. I'm having great trouble thinking of any other logical reason for a journalist to lie, then perpetuate their lie further by forging emails.

But you are right: Kotaku being the only ones reporting on this does put them in deep. Grayson said on twitter how he asked the question, and why he's the only one reporting it, so all the truth is out from him. I believe it, since it aligns with a lot of what we are(n't) seeing from those with copies and from Nintendo themselves. At the same time, I could also see how this could be a miscommunication between Nintendo's PR and Grayson. Who knows.

...but if it is out, well, I have one less reason to be mad about Fates and embarrassed about being a fan of FE :P

[twice]

I've been on here since last year in the beginning of summer, although I didn't really come on a lot more until these past few months. It's surprising how heated discussions get sometimes. Then again, I haven't really been in any heated discussions until Corrin and Bayonetta because Smash 4 DLC and I didn't really get into the mix of a REALLY heated discussion until...well...this one. I'm happy that people don't go extremely bonkers when trying to get a point across like some other sites (who start to go WAAAY over board when thing get too hot). They try to keep a leveled head here from what I've seen. Also, it's nice to have a place I can go to where everyone at least somewhat understands and likes what I love, which is Fire Emblem (because it sucks when you know only one other person in your personal life that actually even likes Fire Emblem, not that I can really go into deep discussion with them though...oh well...)!

I've been on here around the beginning of summer too! (Like June something...? It honestly feels much more longer than it has been.)

Yeah some discussions get a bit out of hand but, luckily we have such great mods here.

I try to avoid small arguments in topics more now. And have been doing better so at it.

I've also found that most people here don't go as crazy as other sites/forums, which I really appreciate.

Yes, it is super extra nice being here since we all like and love FE in our own ways! It's nice to all share that feeling

Edited January 29, 2016 by Jin

[soranauta]

I kind of expected an official statement from Nintendo, since they issued one after the M!Corrin/Soleil support issue. But then again, this would be something much bigger (specially because things got kind of out of hand) so maybe they will stay silent after all and some people will be pissed no matter what, in the end. I still think it would be just better for them to just say something on the matter to clear everything up and move on.

[Hunter Nightblood]

But then again, this would be something much bigger (specially because things got kind of out of hand) so maybe they will stay silent after all and some people will be pissed no matter what, in the end.

That's the bad thing about controversial features: no matter what, there's bound to be some part of the fandom that you'll piss off.

[NekoKnight]

Anyway, if ever there was a game that should've had two different versions, it should've been this one. Do you know what my original plan was before they announced the versions would be different? Save on chapter 5, pick Nohr and complete chapter 6. Save that in a different file, then go back to chapter 5, pick Hoshido and play through both stories at the same time.

That plan completely undermines the whole point of the blood vs. loyalty aspect of the story. By splitting the game into two routes, you were making a conscious decision for which of those two you valued more, which characters you preferred and which side of the war you supported. The decision of which route you picked had meaning other than what legendary you think looks cooler. If anything, it's the third route that ruins things by making the other two essentially irrelevant.

There are plenty of games with route splits that are all on one game, and the route choice isn't undermined just because you could theoretically play them side by side, chapter by chapter. The only difference between Fates and other games is that Fates has its other routes locked behind paywalls.

Let's say that the "point" of the routes being on separate games was to make your choice more significant/binding. Should the gamer be discouraged to play the other routes because that would mean not committing to your original choice? Nintendo doesn't seem to think so because they included the option to download the other routes, at a discount no less.

[Silver Lightning]

So I've come back around to the Forest after a bit of a hiatus for IRL stuff, and I've barely lurked here specifically so I could avoid spoilers and temptation for spoilers (I've already been spoiled on some major things unfortunately), but all this 'controversy' surrounding the game I'm hearing about lately is troubling me enough to find out whats up. I'm not about to read the entire thread right now, I'm exhausted from work, so can anyone bring me up to speed about what's going on and what the current situation is? I know enough not to read biased Kotaku click bait; they don't deserve anymore than what they've already managed to get imo. And pls no spoilers if possible; I'm frightened enough that I'm breaking my FE14 fast before release, but emergencies call for action....

Also, its nice to see so many new faces! Welcome to the Forest and the FE community! :)

[eclipse]

Now I won't go around pretending like I know much about Kotaku's ethics or motives; I avoided all that Gamergate nonsense for a reason, but to me anybody with a sliver of intellect would know those are all terribly shitty reasons to push a blatant lie this far.

FIRST. . .I was around for the Gamergate nonsense. It's still going on. It's why my opinion of Kotaku is so low.

SECOND. . ."anyone with a sliver of intellect would know these are terrible shitty reasons" is walking a very dangerous line. I don't really care because it feels like you did a skim read and ignored my own logic behind each reason, BUT what you posted is actually a warnable offense (PM me for details, it's messy). Don't do it again.

THIRD. . .do you have a response for my own logic behind each of those bullet points?

While I was out shopping with my mom, a reason that eclipsed all others came to mind: Saying anything at this point may cause people to cancel orders, whether they supported skinshipping or not. From a business perspective, it's best to keep quiet, and let this mess sort itself out. Not everyone will seek out material from people who get the review copy of the game.

Now, if it is well and truly out, it's possible that skinshipping turns into some sort of shitty DLC, which is about as close to a compromise as I can see. It's lame on principle, but since the only use I'd have for it would be for some crazier gameplay mechanics, it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game. If it's not out, then Kotaku has to do damage control - they can't do it right now, or they'll lose readers because they'll look stupid. Likewise, if they do retract it, that's indirectly saying that skinshipping is in, which goes back to the cancellation thing that I mentioned. I think it's in both Kotaku and Nintendo's best interest to keep it vague until the last minute, even if I think it's not fair to the fans.

However, I don't think we have the full picture, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's some unseen factors that are throwing a giant monkey wrench in the works. Kotaku has had eyes on it since Gamergate, so I don't think they can afford a screw-up of this magnitude.

[Time the Crestfallen]

FIRST. . .I was around for the Gamergate nonsense. It's still going on. It's why my opinion of Kotaku is so low.

SECOND. . ."anyone with a sliver of intellect would know these are terrible shitty reasons" is walking a very dangerous line. I don't really care because it feels like you did a skim read and ignored my own logic behind each reason, BUT what you posted is actually a warnable offense (PM me for details, it's messy). Don't do it again.

THIRD. . .do you have a response for my own logic behind each of those bullet points?

While I was out shopping with my mom, a reason that eclipsed all others came to mind: Saying anything at this point may cause people to cancel orders, whether they supported skinshipping or not. From a business perspective, it's best to keep quiet, and let this mess sort itself out. Not everyone will seek out material from people who get the review copy of the game.

Now, if it is well and truly out, it's possible that skinshipping turns into some sort of shitty DLC, which is about as close to a compromise as I can see. It's lame on principle, but since the only use I'd have for it would be for some crazier gameplay mechanics, it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game. If it's not out, then Kotaku has to do damage control - they can't do it right now, or they'll lose readers because they'll look stupid. Likewise, if they do retract it, that's indirectly saying that skinshipping is in, which goes back to the cancellation thing that I mentioned. I think it's in both Kotaku and Nintendo's best interest to keep it vague until the last minute, even if I think it's not fair to the fans.

However, I don't think we have the full picture, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's some unseen factors that are throwing a giant monkey wrench in the works. Kotaku has had eyes on it since Gamergate, so I don't think they can afford a screw-up of this magnitude.

The only thing I don't agree with is them possibly adding it back in as DLC. They might do it as a free, optional patch for people who care enough for the feature, but in no way do I believe that they'll take something out by claiming that it's too inappropriate for the West and then make it a purchasable DLC. They'd have to be insane and maybe even a little suicidal to show that much contempt for their fanbase. You'll have the people who want skinship going nuclear about them taking it out of the base-game so they could sell it back to them, the people who don't want it in the game going nuclear about Nintendo lying about taking it out and LITERALLY EVERYONE going nuclear about the ethics of cutting something out of the main game for DLC that was included in the Jap base game. Seriously, that would be Oblivion Horse Armour levels of scummy DLC.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Phillius

[Anomalocaris]

Whether it's an outright lie, honest misinformation, or correct-but-broke-policy-to-report-it, I think Kotaku is gonna get burned worse than Sigurd for this.

[Lynsanity]

So right now our sources are the Kotaku reporter, the unnamed demo rep he spoke to, and Rich George at Golin, a Nintendo PR agency, who said "the statement provided" to Kotaku (which again, seemed to be mostly about the Japanese version and talking past the question...) was correct. Occam's razor would suggest that all 3 of those people aren't mistaken. Though it's not like any of them have spelled it out with any clarity, or work for Treehouse.

Meanwhile there's this list of localization changes floating around that's apparently from FE Reddit, and states that petting is gone, and also Soleil no longer shows interest in girls. I don't use Reddit, so does anyone know where all this info is coming from? Are they claiming a copy leaked or something? http://pastebin.com/rrFyBfUz

That's all the hearsay I've seen tonight. But speaking of Occam's razor, people speculating that this is all some big conspiracy to drum up interest in the game, or that disabling comments on a Youtube video is some admission of guilt, please chill. It's silly for gamers to get this worked up about non-information.

[Together We Ride]

FIRST. . .I was around for the Gamergate nonsense. It's still going on. It's why my opinion of Kotaku is so low.

SECOND. . ."anyone with a sliver of intellect would know these are terrible shitty reasons" is walking a very dangerous line. I don't really care because it feels like you did a skim read and ignored my own logic behind each reason, BUT what you posted is actually a warnable offense (PM me for details, it's messy). Don't do it again.

THIRD. . .do you have a response for my own logic behind each of those bullet points?

While I was out shopping with my mom, a reason that eclipsed all others came to mind: Saying anything at this point may cause people to cancel orders, whether they supported skinshipping or not. From a business perspective, it's best to keep quiet, and let this mess sort itself out. Not everyone will seek out material from people who get the review copy of the game.

Now, if it is well and truly out, it's possible that skinshipping turns into some sort of shitty DLC, which is about as close to a compromise as I can see. It's lame on principle, but since the only use I'd have for it would be for some crazier gameplay mechanics, it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game. If it's not out, then Kotaku has to do damage control - they can't do it right now, or they'll lose readers because they'll look stupid. Likewise, if they do retract it, that's indirectly saying that skinshipping is in, which goes back to the cancellation thing that I mentioned. I think it's in both Kotaku and Nintendo's best interest to keep it vague until the last minute, even if I think it's not fair to the fans.

However, I don't think we have the full picture, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's some unseen factors that are throwing a giant monkey wrench in the works. Kotaku has had eyes on it since Gamergate, so I don't think they can afford a screw-up of this magnitude.

My apologies, I didn't mean for that line to be direct at your logic, although I can easily see how one could take it as such. I'll try to be more clear in the future.

I did read you post thoroughly, and if you feel I did a shoddy job addressing your logic, that may be because I was trying to address your logic from Kotaku's perspective. My criticism for those reasons were more so my opinion on why from Kotaku's standpoint, it wouldn't be smart to use them for their own sake. Your thinking of those being potential reasons for what's occurring does make sense; after all, there's not much else that could explain it, should the initial report be a blatant lie on their end. Oh yeah, and this all was under the assumption that Grayson went in on this report knowing it was baseless, and all fabricated.

In response to your new thoughts... I agree. Although, I feel the only people who would cancel preorders are those who would want skinshipping to be in, given how adamant purists can be about their expectations for games that receive localization. I imagine those who don't want it (myself to a large extent) would still buy the game, but just choose to neglect that content while playing, and maybe complain more about it afterward. Additionally, I'd also imagine people who preordered this game knowing about and being against skinshipping wouldn't bank on the chance of it being removed. Of course, this doesn't speak for the casual fans who may not know about the feature, and my line of thinking may not be Nintendo's at all... I know I rambled there, but I agree that being silent all together probably is the safest bet.

As for Kotaku's follow up to this... well, I truly believe Grayson thinks his report is accurate, especially considering how far he went to prove himself to random people on twitter. And since nothing else is being said about it from Nintendo or someone else with the game (likely for the business related reasons you mentioned), I don't think they could retract or try to apologize for their report at this point even if they wanted to.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Together We Ride

[eclipse]

To everyone that's responding to me: Thanks~! However, SOMEONE needs to get her Scribbles entry ready, so I've gotta spend less time responding and more time writing a fanfic. Thus, only one actual response:

So right now our sources are the Kotaku reporter, the unnamed demo rep he spoke to, and Rich George at Golin, a Nintendo PR agency, who said "the statement provided" to Kotaku (which again, seemed to be mostly about the Japanese version and talking past the question...) was correct. Occam's razor would suggest that all 3 of those people aren't mistaken. Though it's not like any of them have spelled it out with any clarity, or work for Treehouse.

Meanwhile there's this list of localization changes floating around that's apparently from FE Reddit, and states that petting is gone, and also Soleil no longer shows interest in girls. I don't use Reddit, so does anyone know where all this info is coming from? Are they claiming a copy leaked or something? http://pastebin.com/rrFyBfUz

That's all the hearsay I've seen tonight. But speaking of Occam's razor, people speculating that this is all some big conspiracy to drum up interest in the game, or that disabling comments on a Youtube video is some admission of guilt, please chill. It's silly for gamers to get this worked up about non-information.

GameXplain has a couple of videos out featuring gameplay. That's where a lot of the Pastebin info seems to come from.

As for being a publicity stunt - it's Kotaku, and I set the ethics bar very low for them. That's why it's probably not the case, but I wouldn't put it past them to attempt something like this. As for the comments, I think they should be disabled by default on all company videos, for the greater good.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Especially for commercials. Can you imagine if someone who didn't follow news about the game saw the commercial, scrolled down into the comments and everything they saw was arguing about skinship? This commercial is the first chance to impress new potential customers, so they probably don't want them to be scared off by stuff that would be nasty even by the standards of the youtube comment section.

[Fyras4]

I think it would be wise at this point for Nintendo to come out and say if the 'skinship' / petting/whatever you call it, is in the game or not.

Whatever Kotaku was trying to pull off is certainly doing more harm than good; sure, the game gets attention and interest in it (probably) rises but at what cost?

I get the feeling that if it had been anyone else, this mess would have been cleared up immediately and it bothers me that this is not happening with Kotaku...that's a very big red flag right there. (Unless they have actually changed or deleted the article altogether when I wrote this).

Getting information from 'the guy that works at Nintendo or for the PR department' is not a good source at all.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Fyras4

[Lynsanity]

GameXplain has a couple of videos out featuring gameplay. That's where a lot of the Pastebin info seems to come from.

Woops, you're right. It's all just info we know already. Plus a line worded like "storyline with Soleil's nervousness around girls removed" which people on twitter are taking to mean Soleil no longer likes girls. Again.

God, the internet is an awful echo chamber. I wish this game would just come out already.

[Solkia]

Woops, you're right. It's all just info we know already. Plus a line worded like "storyline with Soleil's nervousness around girls removed" which people on twitter are taking to mean Soleil no longer likes girls. Again.

God, the internet is an awful echo chamber. I wish this game would just come out already.

I'm honestly losing interest in Fates.

I almost miss when Fire Emblem was a niche title in a niche genre, talking about this series just isn't fun for me anymore.

[Giga Man]

I tried sending NoA an email. Instead of responding to my concerns, they redirected me to here: http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/contact

I don't know if this is a recent development or they've always responded to emails with this, but regardless, I don't know how to proceed.

For the record, I sent my email to "nintendo@noa.nintendo.com". Has anybody else tried contacting them besides that one screenshot we keep passing around?

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I honestly find it funny that people who didn't want skin-shipping thought the content just shouldn't be in the game and they said they might not consider buying it because of all the overall gametime, Otaku's would have a longer and more fun time compared to other people. In other words, their not getting enough for what they might pay for.
Now people cry the same thing when skin-ship gets removed and the fanbase gets equalized. I mean, look at what we had to put with.

Their's so many double edged swords to these arguments.

[eclipse]

I tried sending NoA an email. Instead of responding to my concerns, they redirected me to here: http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/contact

I don't know if this is a recent development or they've always responded to emails with this, but regardless, I don't know how to proceed.

For the record, I sent my email to "snip". Has anybody else tried contacting them besides that one screenshot we keep passing around?

Wow. . .that's messy. Good job, Nintendo. ;/

DISCLAIMER: I'm not sure what the hell this falls under. . .worse comes to worse, they give you a canned response and file it away under "things we don't care about". Or maybe someone from Nintendo will find this post and blame me for the large influx of e-mails (I'd rather not have this happen, BUT I think it's their fault for making a very unintuitive user interface). Do the following at your own risk!

Anyway, from the link you provided, click on the Corporate Questions tab, then click on Corporate Social Responsibility. You can fill out a form there.

I think it would be better to give them a call here (people outside of North America, go to support.nintendo.com, and click on the appropriate region to get the phone numbers).

Took out the e-mail address in the original quote due to a weird formatting error.