Pokémon uPick Mafia - Day 4

[Sunwoo]

I'm heading out in a bit so I don't have time to read through what I missed right now, I'll do it when I get back. Also, something happened overnight but I'm not sure if I should out it yet.

[Prims]

I still expect more from Manix. My point was like... yes, Manix can be lazy and surface level, but only when he's not engaged. And I feel like Manix is at the point of his mafia career where he's normally less engaged when he's scum. I know how that stage feels; I'm there too, Prims is there, and Paperblade has probably been there since before I started playing mafia. shrug. I don't think Marth and Manix are buddies though.

I'm at the point in my mafia career where I'm less engaged in general :'( I agree with the dead guy though, Manix's votes were really unconvincing. like how is marth trying to "weasel around making a RVS case" and how is this tied to him not wanting attention on his slot? he'd been engaging people calling him out and honestly, "he didn't vote when he could have" is such a classic RVS case I don't think his play can be described as evasive. and his last post of the day just looks like a carbon copy of the kind of stuff he posted as maf in that game I hosted where he was Piplup so yeah. Also if Manix and BBM were both town scum would leave them alive together, come ON

##Vote: Manix

@Manix: Please cite sources for Marf being self-conscious. like yeah he's responding to people who are voting him but it's balanced out with scumhunting so I don't see how it's any scummier than you posting excuses when called out because BBM found you lazy. this seems like the trap where somebody gets voted early D1 and people needle them for responding to the votes and given that you've been lynched for this before I'd expect you to know better as town. if it's something about Marf's tone then I'm not seeing it.

Not fond of CRYSTA because after her Blitz vote her posts are all going "hm... I don't know about this case really" or responding to people but she never says who she's interested in voting other than Blitz. She doesn't try to convince people to vote Blitz with her either though. Her votepark isn't "null without flips" like Manix said, it's scummy because if you look through her ISO despite posting a lot her net effect on the day was very minimal later on. Personally I'd consider her way more self-conscious than Marth because most of her posts genuinely are about the people who suspected her and unlike Marth she wasn't doing much to make up for it.

I'm not really interested in the eclipse cases, except Outbreak is best copula unlock in ages and something she PMed me ages ago implied she doesn't like USAO, so I would still lynch her. But uh she implied she was holding off on doing a wacky RVS thing because of roles so I don't blame her; furthermore this is also how town!eclipse tends to handle role info from my experience.

Blitz is still a decent scum candidate imo but it's up to the replacement at this point.

To be honest a lot of D1 cases and info went through my brain because ADHDposting and I had an entire phase to catch up on. If you want my opinion on something specific that I didn't talk about then point it out please #TheClarinetsStrat

[Sunwoo]

Quick question to all the players: who do you feel more strongly is scum, Crysta or Manix?

[Refa]

You'll find out soon, I'm about to post it!

[Prims]

Quick question to all the players: who do you feel more strongly is scum, Crysta or Manix?

Manix for meta reasons. I think both are scum though.

[Refa]

Refa, go read Manix's post where he voted Gaius

He literally just jumped on it last minute with a "yep this guy's mafia" without saying a single thing about Gaius before

Yeah right, I doubt I'd miss something that scum-

last thoughts: idk

not a fan of LG's eclipse vote because there's no elaboration on what "case holes" wrt eclipse's crysta case (if one does not make things clear, it's just a pile of words that look good)

##Unvote

##Vote: Lord Gaius

going here, most favorable wagon that isn't blitz (see above)

-myoh what. Yeah, I can sheep your issues with it now (mostly because it comes across as an excuse to vote Gaius; I don't think a last minute consolidation vote is bad in and of itself but it felt like he was nitpicking on a single issue of LG's content without paying attention to the rest of it) HOWEVER I don't see it being worse by itself than Crysta actively participating without updating her reads or her vote because it feels less insidious to me. Manix is doing things that are traditionally scummy but Crysta is like actively going under the radar and that bothers me more.

What do you mean about his reads being incomprehensible and changing to fit the flow of the conversation, though? From what I remember, yeah they were nitpicky and minimalist but I could still understand them.

[Sunwoo]

Both Crysta and Manix seem disengaged towards the game, and Manix feels a lot less (for the lack of a better word) aggressive and invested in the game. And from what I remember of Manix, that's his scum meta. Crysta lacked solid opinions or thoughts on most players, and even on the people she spoke about she didn't really seem committed to those reads. I think Crysta is worse for having less commitment. Also, I have to go right now.

##Vote: Crysta

[Shin]

My only disappointment was that BBM's Sceptile didn't have a curious raised eyebrow.

Looking back, Crysta's tunnel on Blitz and completely ignoring much of the game looks really bad. Still, I can't really sit on a vote forever without paying attention to the rest of the game, but Crysta's firmly on my naughty list.

Shin I just can't read and am hoping that someone else does it for me

[spoiler=A brief summary of Shin]

There is a majestic, magnificent specimen of a man on SF. His voice and dance moves grace its pages with powerful brilliance. This man is none other than Shin. His words speak the truth to all, and create the truth otherwise. Far more handsome than the eyes of the commoners deserve, Shin stands out among the crowd, especially Horace because he's fat and lazy.

Talented, creative and modest, Shin strives to succeed in everything he does - and does it really well because he's a bro. Jealousy towards Shin is a natural emotion and in order to protect the powerful Brit's modesty, people often claim he's not that amazing even though he really is. He also likes taking lunch money and making fun of Horace whilst drinking tea. It's only natural.

This is SHIN.

Totally town, I sware.

Manix comes across as a lazy chump. It's not like he's not following the game - he's posted stuff that's relevant. However, his contributions have been minimal and I kinda feel like he's actively avoiding putting out any opinions. His vote on the LG was beyond awful, I don't really see any reasons why Manix would do that as town.

##Vote: Manix

I was going to complain Prims sucked but I actually liked his last post. I agree with the logic on Crysta and Manix, and I generally feel that there's a degree of wanting to actually catch scum in his posts.

Iris does suck though, content would be DELICIOUS. I guess Strawman doesn't look too bad but I can't really form an opinion on him.

Everyone is varying degrees of null, and not nearly DISGUSTING enough to talk about.

[Paperblade]

What do you mean about his reads being incomprehensible and changing to fit the flow of the conversation, though? From what I remember, yeah they were nitpicky and minimalist but I could still understand them.

I felt like all his votes were just pushing along towards whatever was popular at the time (mostly the Blitz and Gaius votes), and it was difficult to get a good idea of what he was thinking. Feels too much like he is trying to be weasely about his opinions because he doesn't have real ones

[Prims]

paper what do you think about the crysta wagon though? do you have reads other than manix?

shin, do you consider manix worse than crysta? the way you framed your post makes it sound like you're voting manix over her so people don't think you're tunneling

[Prims]

actually Shin was never voting Crysta so I'm confused what he meant by that in the first place ?_?

[Paperblade]

I spent some time during N1 attempting to determine if Boron and eclipse's contribution to the Gaius wagon were mafia or town posts

I felt like Boron was pushing a bad case because she was unwilling to go read the isos of other games, and I was frustrated since I saw Gaius's defense yet everyone else just kind of ignored it. So, Boron is definitely someone for me to look at later today. Refa also kind of falls into that "Your thoughts on Gaius being bad are bad" but he was less tunnelled onto it and did other things that make me inclined to think he's town

I'll have to look at Crysta more today because I was kind of lumping her and Gaius together in a "People are pushing them stupidly over the scum!Blitz votes" but Crysta's case looks to have more weight to it based on Refa's case today

[Paperblade]

woops forgot to write about eclipse

Someone wrote earlier the same conclusion I came to (I think it was Prims), but eclipse is kind of playing how I remember her playing town as. I'll probably go double check some games to be sure tho

[Paperblade]

and TRIPLE POST because I have no self control

Boron, why did you continue to push Gaius when you were unwilling to go read the games he was referring to?

[Shin]

paper what do you think about the crysta wagon though? do you have reads other than manix?

shin, do you consider manix worse than crysta? the way you framed your post makes it sound like you're voting manix over her so people don't think you're tunneling

It's more that Crysta's not actually said anything recently but I want people to remember that I'm still casing her. I do think Manix is worse than Crysta for the reasons I've stated. I can kinda see why you thought that but I dislike Manix' ongoing apathy more than Crysta's previous un-updated tunnel.

[Shin]

actually Shin was never voting Crysta so I'm confused what he meant by that in the first place ?_?

I think I may have had a massive brainfart. I'd been informed by my landlord that like a year's worth of bills needed paying retrospectively so I may have missed actually voting in my post. It looks SUPER BAD, but I can't really say much else on the matter.

[Grace]

meta shift achieved: able to seem like scum as town

i like being in a mindstate where i don't care about anything

going to preface this post with a partial claim so things don't get too out of hand. i'm decoy, targeted blitz n1. for hopefully obvious reasons

bad jump onto Gaius wagon

it's funny because if gaius was scum this would never have been an issue

what else was i meant to do in my situation considering that it was going to be my last post and i wanted blitz's slot vigged? it's not like i'm being inconsistent with who i think is scum at the time

consolidation votes are cool etc

He literally just jumped on it last minute with a "yep this guy's mafia" without saying a single thing about Gaius before

going here, most favorable wagon that isn't blitz (see above)

if this doesn't read to you as "consolidation", then idfk

@Manix: Please cite sources for Marf being self-conscious. like yeah he's responding to people who are voting him but it's balanced out with scumhunting so I don't see how it's any scummier than you posting excuses when called out because BBM found you lazy. this seems like the trap where somebody gets voted early D1 and people needle them for responding to the votes and given that you've been lynched for this before I'd expect you to know better as town. if it's something about Marf's tone then I'm not seeing it.

@Manix: I'm going to reverse BBM's question and ask you: Why are BBM and I worse than Blitz?

@BBM: You voted me for not voting eclipse earlier. It should be clear that had I voted her earlier I would have used the shitposting case since that part is definitely related to my RVS question. Keeping this in mind, do you think scum!me avoids doing this earlier only to bring up the same thing later anyway? I could've voted her for those reasons and avoided the attention that I'd get by calling her out and not voting her.

here u go

defense post done, making other content post now after reading

[Crysta]

In comes the terrible read wallpost you all were asking for, produced by reading ISOs for like the billionth time. The new posts at deadline actually helped clarify things, though! Somewhat.

Blitz: lol

Boron: I felt out of the votes on Gaius’s wagon her problems with him were the most justified, though I didn’t get over-defensiveness from the same posts she did. There was more of it in his later posts as he interacted with her, but it sounded like frustration to me. Her problems with me stemmed from a lack of a thorough explanation of my meta-read on Blitz but I didn’t really want to explain that more than I already had (and I still don’t tbh) versus interacting with the rest of the thread. I don’t have a problem with this content or the rest of her content and her interactions with Refa in earlier in the thread painted her in a positive light for me tbh; I can dig it.

Crysta: Needs to learn how to read you people better. Also town. So town you don’t even know it.

eclipse: I waffle on this one still. Don’t care much about her RVS shitposting. Voted for me for the hypocritical questions like I initially suspected, but taking me out of the equation implies she would have voted for Gaius over Prims and Manix (she admitted it would have been a coin flip without the questions). She said Prims’s vote didn’t push her one way or the other, so the question then becomes why Gaius over Prims because I don’t get it. She’s gotten flak over her nullreads sounding more convincing (logic-wise I guess) but I’m actually more curious about that since Gaius had more content to draw from than Prims at the time. Her explanation for not pushing the nullreads ahead of me seems ok? I’m having a hard time seeing what Shin still thinks is wrong with it.

Also on the topic of hypocrisy and asking pointless questions, asking Gaius if he felt Blitz was still scum was a weird thing to ask because there literally was no more content from Blitz so there wasn’t anything present for Gaius to change his read. Why would he suddenly think Blitz was town?

Other than that she really does come off as classic “town!Eclipse” with the rolecrumbing, retorts to my side commentary, and other stuff. But… I’m not eliminating the possibility that she may be using that to her advantage and I agree with BBM’s later assessment that she seems to be attacking gameplay without really explaining why there’s scum intent behind it. The comment about Shin’s vote not having a lot of conviction behind it also sort of smells this way.

Iris:

Manix: His laziness is a nullread for me and I don’t recall him being particularly wordy in the one game I played with him on. The complaint about being held to “stupidly high standards” sounds whiny though and I don’t think expecting more is stupidly high. I agree that his vote on Gaius because he didn’t clarify the specifics of what he meant with the “case holes” was pretty weak and sounds tacked on there. Do I find it worse than Blitz asking those questions and flaking? Ehh… can sheep if content doesn’t get better.

Marth: Seems to have voted Eclipse for voting over bad gameplay over voting scum intent but then pretty much does the same to her in the second part of his vote post? I feel his questions are advancing the game but I don’t find his content the towniest ever. Since his vote was on eclipse for the majority of the day I still wouldn’t mind hearing the meta reasons he has behind it that he had referenced, especially since I’m pretty unsure of eclipse myself. This might help. I’ll do all sorts of needless readings.

Paperblade: Most of his content is around Blitz and the Blitz wagon but I like it. I vaguely recall him hard-defending Blitz questions in the past in another game somewhere so in a weird sense that makes me more confident in my read on Blitz and on him. **

Prims: I’m gonna let him post because there’s not much to say about his content but he’s present even if it’s only to say he’ll post later. I’m pretty sure he knew that was likely a typo, though, because he doesn’t strike me as someone who fails reading comprehension very often. He's reading the thread now apparently so yeah.

Refa:

I’ve played with Town!Refa before and aggressiveness from him isn’t really new but re-reading it in lieu of the spergvoting and end of day posts makes it sound a lot more snide than what I remember. He asserts I was “so dismissive” of my own rvs scruples (why would I even bring it up then?) and his #151 in reply to Strawman sounds like more of “you should have done x” in the same vein.

This is far less of a definite read and more like a leery “I get where Strawman came from” sentiment now. His actual gameplay/cases/pressuring don’t read as scummy and I can’t see definite scum intent… so, uh, I can’t actually scumread him, so I don’t. It’s more how he’s carrying himself that’s beginning to bother me but whatever.

My reply to my vote-sitting will come later in my Shin section. In regards to my stance on Gaius, yeah, I was in a state of not finding him actively scummy but defensive.

Shin: I liked his #147 in regards to Manix but I also liked that it evolved in #196. Don’t really like the rest of it.

Crysta, after all that's happened so far, why is your vote still on Blitz?

Because I’m having a difficult time forming scum reads outside of him. Not a very elaborate or strong reason but it’s the truth. I was being more observant than proactive and listening more to what people had to say because I wasn’t confident in my reads and I’m still struggling tbh. I did know scum outside of Blitz had to exist but I really have no fucking idea who it is.

The reasons for not wanting to lynch Blitz were fine. Of the two viable wagons which were present at deadline I would have probably went on the Gaius wagon because of my meta read/rolecrumbing on eclipse, tbh; it was stronger than my confidence that Gaius was town, even though I still thought he likely was.

My earlier content was centered on Blitz because others wanted an explanation, mostly. I’m pushing back on the insistence I was tunneling because of that: FMPOV tunneling implies I’m not looking elsewhere at all and diligently trying to curry support for the wagon and I was not. I was interacting with the thread, just not in the most constructive way possible, arguably. Definitely wasn’t ignoring everything like you’re saying; if that’s the case, why does my later posts supposedly make you feel better about me?

Actually that kind of bugs me in the “he’s not really making any sense and being deceptive” way than in the “he’s making sense but I just don’t like it” way I usually find versus people who find me suspicious, moreso than what eclipse was doing with her picking at my questions…

##Vote: Shin

Fite me at the back of arby’s at sundown

Strawman: He’s ok I guess. I get where he was coming from with more Refa now. Post more bro.

In conclusion my lynch priority atm would be Shin > Blitz >= eclipse > Manix. Shin+eclipse or Shin+Manix not likely a scumteam. I can get the problem with Manix’s apathy but that’s my weakest ping. If there’s interest in killing Blitz I’m down with that, assuming he continues to flake and doesn’t pop in with content.

I mean I can get not liking my content/votesitting/I don’t have weightier stances but it’s not what Shin’s protraying it as lol. And I think he's a good enough player to know better tbh.

I'm gonna go watch X-Men soon so I'll probably be gone for awhile.

[Paperblade]

Unfortunately we don't live in an alternate reality where Gaius was mafia, we live in one where he was town, so your "what if" argument is just a misdirection that has no bearing on what you actually did.

[Crysta]

also have no idea why my font size went from 11 to 10.5 while using google drive

which you guys should use if you have problems with the forum eating your wallposts

[Grace]

okay then, just ignore that line since it was basically a throwaway line anyway

doesn't change a thing about what i said

content post update: reading iso's, boron can stay, i need to think about crysta more than the aforementioned blitz votepark

[Grace]

also the words are starting to blur together already

this is why you don't play mafia when you've just woken up

[Paperblade]

okay then, just ignore that line since it was basically a throwaway line anyway

doesn't change a thing about what i said

content post update: reading iso's, boron can stay, i need to think about crysta more than the aforementioned blitz votepark

You realize that's the whole reason I (and others) think you're mafia, right? Your entire game has been throwaway lines because you just make declarative statements with almost no visible thought process to the rest of the players

Why should I trust you to go into late game when I have no idea what you're thinking or why?

[Grace]

hi welcome to me playing a mafia game when i'm not in good headspace

[Bluedoom]

I want to be numbah one, numero uno, the best kid next door!