Pokémon uPick Mafia - Day 4

[Refa]

Other thing bothering me is Refa's seeming aggressiveness towards Boron's questions.

How was I being aggressive and why does that bother you?

Strawman's vote on me made me reread Marth's posts and I'm not going to lie, I just realized that Marth quoted Refa in his Crysta vote.

Dammit, I knew I should have reread that part for myself but I was like "eh, I don't think it's scummy anyways so why bother".

I'm agreeing with the Blitz cases but questioning the wagon because generally speaking, wagons don't build up that fast ED1 on scum. If they do, they normally involve scum starting some early distancing that townies then jump on. Otherwise, scum don't pile onto their buddy who has 2-3 votes already. It doesn't get them much bussing cred and it normally results in their buddy being lynched, particularly when like Blitz they're not good at defending themselves. I don't see any reason to think Blitz and Prims are buddies right now though, so I'm leaning on the other side. That being said, the original reason for the Blitz vote makes sense to me, which is why I'm kind of conflicted.

I agree with the early distancing point but not the latter one. Scum would want to avoid voting Blitz regardless of their alignment because if he's scum, what you said and if he's town, chances are the wagon will move off of him because Town!Blitz does not get lynched that easily and ED1 cases kind of crumble as the day goes on.

[eclipse]

Because I've got nothing.

And because maybe, just maybe, I have a plan for all of these posts. Or not.

Which would be quite tenuous, except there's Actual Content, so I don't have to do the equivalent of picking 10 names out of a hat. Thank goodness, or things would've gotten quite messy!

For people reading into my intro post it was just a joke. We all know about my many failed scumteams and like I was literally the opening post I think you guys are reading too much into it.

BBM what did Marth do to ping you that Paperblade or Crysta didn't because they all had pretty empty RVS intros (Crysta has actually followed up after RVS)

And why you guys hating on Ardin =(

We'll read as much into it as we want! Until something better comes along. Regardless, content is content, and since this is a pretty early post (relatively speaking), cases are gonna be built on less-than-solid things.

Ardin's got nothin' on Gancelot

i feel that question makes no sense unless he meant 'wouldn't' instead of 'would'; and if that's the case then it's simply because i didn't think it would so i didn't

that aside i agree that both of those questions sound more like scum!blitz asking half-assed questions to go along to get along versus town!blitz asking questions to help us move forward.

@blitz: elaborate on your initial gaius vote. it actually doesn't sound like a completely random vote. is it?

@iris: on that front, you could do the same thing with your vote on him. why didn't you like his vote?

##Unvote: Gaius

##Vote: Blitz

worse than man cleavage

This sits wrong with me. This is the second echo of Prims' case, and I honestly can't see the point of that other question towards Blitz. But I'm collecting quotes like Murkrow collects shiny things.

Oh, I seem to have missed that on my first skim read.

The next question, then, is do you guys think that's a serious question and why?

Uhh. . .what's YOUR opinion of Blitz's questions. I'll chime in when I'm done making a wall.

Like, why would scum park on a bad case (assuming Blitz was joking but voting him anyways)?

Because lazy. Or because it's early, so there's plenty of time for the wagon to shift. I'll get to Blitz's wagon later.

---

The questions from Blitz are null, so Blitz himself is null IMO. His scumtell is that he won't do anything useful with the answers, which is why I don't really care about the questions. The wagon building so fast feels like everyone's eager to do SOMETHING, and Blitz provided that SOMETHING. I don't have any strong feelings about Prims' vote, but I don't like how quickly Gaius/Crysta/Manix sheep it. Of the three, I feel the least bad about Manix, since apparently he's not above vote-stacking. Iris' vote reads like RVS, so meh. Paperblade's inaction feels like he's trying to separate himself from the growing wagon, and ending with "sounds like he's joking", which reads null to me. Boron's also in the same boat, though I'm slightly less wary of her due to the fact that she managed to create an associative read with Refa (which I may use later).

I'm null on Marth, but that's because I want him to react to all the new stuff. The rest of you aren't in my sights. . .for now.

Soooo. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: Crysta

Votes Blitz for a pointless question and asks an equally pointless question in return. Yeah.

[Crysta]

Scum claim/10! Lol

Vote:Gaius

not really a pointless question. this doesn't sound like a typical rvs to me; it's an accusation and i want to know how serious it is. i can only figure that out when he answers, though.

[eclipse]

not really a pointless question. this doesn't sound like a typical rvs to me; it's an accusation and i want to know how serious it is. i can only figure that out when he answers, though.

That's pretty clearly a joke IMO, especially if you look at what Blitz quoted (a RVS post, to be exact).

[Crysta]

i recall him reading into my joke rvs post before and commenting on it later and i'd like him to answer even if you consider it pointless

do you find scum intent behind that request for an elaboration or is this a vote because you think i'm being hypocritical/echoing prims?

[Crysta]

actually re-reading it seems you think i'm the laziest vote on the wagon in which case i simply disagree but don't really find the others bad either tbh

[Bluedoom]

Come on guys, if I'm calling out someone and not voting them, the townie motivation is to gauge their reactions and future content, right? Don't see why not voting eclipse is a scum move.

That said, ##Unvote ##Vote: eclipse

Why is Crysta's vote worse than Gaius'? The question needn't necessarily be pointless(NINJA'D LOL, she totally doesn't think its pointless), and if it is, why is it scummy from her end? Why does Paperblade distancing from the Blitz wagon read as null to you, considering he has almost nothing else to say so far, halfway into D1? He isn't even committing to a particular stance on this matter, what do you think of this?

My initial problem with your RVS actions was that you blatantly shitposted and were ok with it, which I can't see from town!eclipse, since she has a particular view of town behaviour which includes promoting discussion wrt scumhunting. If you shitpost and leave it open for people to either break out of RVS or continue shitposting, how will we ever begin to generate meaningful scumhunting discussion by shitposting? This feels like a classic case of scum taking refuge in audacity and passing their actions off as a joke early in the game.

I would've voted earlier but I didn't want my case to be signed off as an RVS case and wanted to see what kind of content she'd come up with as the game moved on. Definitely don't like the Crysta vote.

[Bluedoom]

* don't like lol what a typo

If paperblade doesn't post an actual case on anyone this phase, I will personally push and promote propaganda to vote him for president today. I think a mafia player would make a better candidate than Donald Trump anyway.

I was going to case BBM for what strawman said and then he said that he didn't read my RVS vote properly, lol. My only other problem with him is that he found a weird joke reason to pile a vote on to Gaius which felt very unnecessary as town but makes sense as scum passing off their votes as jokes. Also, if you think there is scum on the Blitz wagon, who do you think is most likely to be scum and why?

I get the case on Blitz but its about what he does with the answers he gets from these questions, so null. The votes on him other than Prims' look bland, so even if I do entertain the possibility of scum being on the wagon, I don't really have any leads other than people sheeping each other like crazy. I'm inclined to agree with Refa's opinion of the wagon, so the people who're suspecting it should tell me why its more likely for scum to be on the Blitz wagon and what leads do they have on this?

[Refa]

I'm too tired to analyze everything else ATM but wanted to reply to Marth while he was still on

I don't remember any voteless reaction tests from you, which is why I was bothered by your post. It's a scum move because it lets you gauge reactions to your case before deciding whether or not to commit to it.

THAT BEING SAID, I can buy you not wanting to have your case dismissed as an RVS case (mostly because we've talked about how much you hate RVS before). Going to reread your case after I wake up and can think more clearly but in the meantime, what are your other PuP Mafia thoughts?

[Refa]

okay never mind you answered my last question while i was watching children's trading card games IGNORE ME

[Crysta]

i seem to be coming to the opposite conclusion in regards to paperblade because of tone; i get the impression that he's actually thinking about it and it reminds me of his play in the one day he had in the last game we played before he mislynched me.

more content is nice though.

[Sunwoo]

Uhh. . .what's YOUR opinion of Blitz's questions. I'll chime in when I'm done making a wall.

First, I totally thought that Blitz had more questions just by the wording of your post. Apparently, he has one post with two questions.

Second, I think Blitz's questions aren't anything out of the ordinary. It's not unusual for him to ask questions, and I don't find either of his questions scummy (aside from possible typo that was already addressed). Now, if the game progresses on and all he does is ask questions and do nothing with them, then I'll have a problem.

[Bluedoom]

I don't remember pulling voteless reaction tests myself, but I've never got good responses whenever I've made a case during RVS.

[eclipse]

My initial problem with your RVS actions was that you blatantly shitposted and were ok with it, which I can't see from town!eclipse, since she has a particular view of town behaviour which includes promoting discussion wrt scumhunting. If you shitpost and leave it open for people to either break out of RVS or continue shitposting, how will we ever begin to generate meaningful scumhunting discussion by shitposting? This feels like a classic case of scum taking refuge in audacity and passing their actions off as a joke early in the game.

I would've voted earlier but I didn't want my case to be signed off as an RVS case and wanted to see what kind of content she'd come up with as the game moved on. Definitely don't like the Crysta vote.

Explained the Crysta vote - take it or leave it.

As for why I didn't care. . .that's role-related. I need to test a few things.

[eclipse]

I don't remember pulling voteless reaction tests myself, but I've never got good responses whenever I've made a case during RVS.

. . .and that's the wrong kind of attitude to have. If you want to push me, fine. But this sounds like you've kinda given up before you even started.

[ZoesMad]

Requesting votals whenever you're around SB.

##Unvote: Blitz

##Vote: Eclipse

Chainsawing the Blitz wagon for apparent reason. The Crysta scum read has a lot of holes in it, especially considering my vote on Blitz follow pretty much the same exact logic down to the meta.

I don't have any strong feelings about Prims' vote, but I don't like how quickly Gaius/Crysta/Manix sheep it. Of the three, I feel the least bad about Manix, since apparently he's not above vote-stacking.

Ok doesn't really mention what's bad about us sheeping it, like it's ED1 why not build pressure on the first case that actually revolves around some semblance of logic. Don't understand either why Manix who was the last person on the wagon is the townier for apparently being "not above vote stacking", what does that mean and why don't you read me and Crysta like that?

Tries to push Crysta on her question not being useful either, disagree with that because she was again pressuring the first real case of the day, don't get how that's "useless" at all.

Tldr: different for sake of being different, chainsaw, lots of holes in case

[BBM]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Manix

this is a better vote after Marth's response. Manix's vote on the Blitz wagon was the laziest, and then when called out on it just gave a reason for being lazy without actually doing or saying anything more now that he was back in the thread. I agree with Eclipse that Crysta's question is pointless (more on this later) but at least there's questioning. Eclipse's point that Manix's vote is the least bad because he was vote-stacking is null because vote stacking has diminishing marginal returns. Lazily voting to stack on someone who was already the largest wagon by at least a few votes isn't good.

Crysta can say "but I think Blitz's Gaius vote wasn't a joke!" except it's like kind of obvious that it is. More to the point, Blitz can just say "yeah it was a joke" and then what is Crysta's response? It's basically to say "oh I see" or say "NO I DON'T BELIEVE YOUR FIRST POST ONE PAGE INTO THE GAME WAS A JOKE".

@gaius- why is chainsawing bad? Looking for scum on a wagon you think is bad is a good strategy.

[ZoesMad]

The read doesn't feel natural to me which I might have forgot to say in my post. Seems like she wanted something new rather than actually having a good case/conviction for her read. You seem to agree with me on the Manix part not actually making sense, and like the rest of the points behind her case just don't fall in line.

[Grace]

man i love being held to stupidly high standards.

when i posted, there really wasn't that much to comment on. so i did and left it at that. and if you read my response as a justification of being lazy, then lrn2read and consider context before trying to mudsling

i don't exactly have infinite time to post content through the day, and i've only been skimming since that post, since I haven't really had computer access (and am posting this via phone since i have some spare time atm)

i'll parse the thread when i get back to a computer and give more then.

for now though, i will lol at prims' post two pages back

[SB.]

The Over Halfway Point Votals

(4) Blitz: Iris, Prims, Crysta, Manix

(2) eclipse: Marth, Gaius

(1) Crysta: eclipse

(1) Gaius: Blitz

(1) Iris: Paperblade

(1) Refa: Shin

(1) Paperblade: Boron

(1) Marth: Refa

(1) BBM: Strawman

(1) Manix: BBM

Around 33 hours remain. With 14 alive, it takes 5 to deadline lynch and 10 to hammer

[Shin]

Yo, Shin is in! I've left a cunning message hidden in my previous post, I wonder who'll be clever enough to figure it out!

A lot of the Boron/Refa thing reads like people trying to get something when there's not actually much content available. I'm not going to lecture people on the joys of RVS, but I really don't think much significant came out of that. Scum wouldn't really want to draw attention to themselves so early on with a slapfight. Boron's points on Refa are a little pedantic, but the flow of the discussion doesn't alarm me.

Blitz is really unremarkable, and was unfortunate enough to pick up votes during RVS. When he does SOMETHING, I think I'll have more of a tangible opinion of him.

I kinda agree with Strawman on BBM, it looked like an easy opportunity to get a vote in on Marth. eclipse bothers me, this post here looks decent on first inspection, but her responses to quotes don't really do very much. I guess the null reads at the bottom and case on Crysta make sense, but my SHINTUITION is alerting me to something. Marth's case makes sense, I think he actually kinda summed up how I felt where the null reads themselves didn't seem fully justified. I also dislike the interactions between the two. eclipse is really standoffish against Marth, although his self-attitude about RVS is kinda MOPEY.

Crysta's response to eclipse's case is bad though, there is no way that Blitz's joke vote was serious. The attempted justification comes off as really dismissive, as well as the approval for the other votes on the wagon. In fact, Crysta comes across as "yeah, I'm voting this guy, doesn't matter"

I've come to a wonderful conclusion where my top two reads don't make sense together but I can go after them on their INDIVIDUAL MERIT.

##Unvote

##Vote: eclipse

For those too lazy to read, eclipse's content felt very non-committed and her null reads expanded to seem more legit. I dislike how she handled criticism from Marth, but then again I can sorta see where her case on Crysta came from.

[Shin]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Manix

this is a better vote after Marth's response. Manix's vote on the Blitz wagon was the laziest, and then when called out on it just gave a reason for being lazy without actually doing or saying anything more now that he was back in the thread. I agree with Eclipse that Crysta's question is pointless (more on this later) but at least there's questioning. Eclipse's point that Manix's vote is the least bad because he was vote-stacking is null because vote stacking has diminishing marginal returns. Lazily voting to stack on someone who was already the largest wagon by at least a few votes isn't good.

Just a question. Surely if it's the laziest vote, that would imply that there's a greater risk with going for it - since it's obviously going to look the most bad? I mean, Manix is really lazy in general, but I'm not sure he'd go for the risk of standing out so massively if he were scum. This is admittedly a lot of speculation from my part, and I can totally see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure about the strength of a case on a guy with no content and a lazy vote.

It gives me RAPIER vibes.

[Grace]

>manix

>lazy

pick one

anyway, i gave bbm's recent vote some thought and backreading to marf's post i'm... less than convinced.

Come on guys, if I'm calling out someone and not voting them, the townie motivation is to gauge their reactions and future content, right? Don't see why not voting eclipse is a scum move.

this is not what i would call convincing logic. if you think someone is scum, what is calling them out without voting going to do? make them scared that you're onto them?

it just plain doesn't do a thing to advance the gamestate during ed1. just vote the person instead of flitting about the issue

so basically i'm not hugely liking bbm for jumping off marf for bad reasoning and marf because well. see above. these two reads are not actually tied to each other, as much as you may think, since one can exist regardless of my read on the other.

don't care for the eclipse cases right now. i read eclipse and i'm not bothered.

more words is hard since i need to sleep (because sleeping at a decent hour is OP)

[Strawman]

I have v little time so I'm going to drop off a quick response to these. Won't be back till after work.

@Strawman- what's wrong with aggressive questioning?

How was I being aggressive and why does that bother you?

Its not about aggressive questioning being bad, its about the context. I read Boron as asking to get a better grasp on the Blitz votes (a mix between "that question was bad" and Blitz Meta) which isn't unreasonable but instead of answering the question, Refa in #108 and #104 strongly dismisses it. I could understand if Refa questioned the question or if they found it scummy, but the way they called it out like that seemed to be instigating something that wasn't there and more hindering a discussion on Blitz votes. Though when i typed that I was under the impression the exchange lasted longer than it did. Rereading, its a pretty short exchange, but it still ribbed me wrong.

[Paperblade]

I don't have much time right now but the worst thing about Blitz right now is that he hasn't come back to defend himself or do anything