Pokémon uPick Mafia - Day 4

[BBM]

I'm sorry Boron. If it helps I still think you're town. You should look at other people though; I feel like you're focusing too much into things revolving around your Gaius case. What is your opinion on eclipse and the wagon on her?

my gut reaction to most of Marth's post and looking back through my memory is that he feels tonally town in his past few posts. But I feel like I'm too tired at the moment so I'm going to look at it again tomorrow morning to make sure I'm not missing something glaring.

feels kind of weird that Iris was like "GUYS LET'S GO" at the beginning of the game and then hasn't posted for the past 24 hours.

[BBM]

@BBM: You voted me for not voting eclipse earlier. It should be clear that had I voted her earlier I would have used the shitposting case since that part is definitely related to my RVS question. Keeping this in mind, do you think scum!me avoids doing this earlier only to bring up the same thing later anyway? I could've voted her for those reasons and avoided the attention that I'd get by calling her out and not voting her.

this sentence structure is way too complex for me to parse right now

[BBM]

ok it took me literally like 6 or 7 tries but I think I got it

my issue is that the RVS thing about eclipse is a fair reason to vote her for at the point you first brought it up, but you didn't do it then. When you voted her later, it wasn't a big deal anymore, but you made it into more of one.

[Crysta]

not sure how relevant this is but for the sake of being accurate refa poked at me for my poke at gaius's intro after i did it because of when i did it (he thought i should have mentioned something about it in my rvs vote post). i don't get over-defensiveness in gaius's reply to that at all. it even has a frownie face at the end

his answer to you about whether or not matters if blitz was joking or not reads as more defensive/dismissive but if i recall correctly i think it was similar to how refa viewed it?

i think i'm just reading different tones tbh

This is really heavy on the meta and I could give examples but I don't think you'll be interested in reading them.

can't speak for anyone else but i wouldn't mind reading them

[Strawman]

If it's about the context, you should have mentioned the context in your previous post instead of just saying "aggressive questioning". I didn't read it as that, I read it as a pointless question that didn't serve to move the game forwards. I had issues with the question and explained it. Like, fair enough if you think my issues were forced (assuming that's what you mean by instigating something that wasn't there) but I don't like how you're misrepping me by saying it hindered a discussion on Blitz. Not only was Blitz discussed in detail beforehand (e.g. nothing Boron asked would have brought anything new to the table), but other people were free to answer while I pursued my own issues.

Super not trying to misrep you (see: how I reacted to Marth last game D1) just saying what I interpreted and answering your question. We haven't played a ton of games together, but I guess I didn't think your tone was as aggressive as it is at times. It must've just taken me by surprise a little as you're a player that I see as someone who does a lot to advance discussion with consistent and high post counts, always in the midst of relevant discussions to be kind of shutting down another player's question I guess.

The other part of people's eclipse case is why she voted Crysta over Gaius, and I would have done the same thing between the two. I'll wait for eclipse to answer before giving my thoughts on that though.

The realest thing that's been said in the past two pages. ##Unvote Real talk BBM is looking better to me and i see some good stuff in his recent posts.

I'm interested in seeing Eclipse come back and respond. I'm not getting scum vibes as she seems to be posting in pretty standard town eclipse fashion. Bringing up her actions being role related is CLASSIC eclipse.

Mmm, I'm going to have to really read and think a lot tomorrow.

[Sunwoo]

I'm sorry Boron. If it helps I still think you're town. You should look at other people though; I feel like you're focusing too much into things revolving around your Gaius case. What is your opinion on eclipse and the wagon on her?

Again, I don't mind if you guys don't agree with my case, but now I feel like I could've literally not posted at all and it'd have the same effect as what I'm doing now >_>

I think eclipse being wary of how fast Blitzwagon built up makes sense, and I can buy her reasoning for being less suspicious of Iris and Manix over Crysta and Gaius. That said, I want to know what her thoughts on Gaius are because she considered his and Crysta's the most suspicious, but only mentions Crysta in her vote and comments. It's a bit odd that she puts Gaius's vote in the same category as Crysta's but says nothing about him.

Can't say anything about her reads on Paper and me, since she seems to think we're both mostly null? Her responses to Marth read like "typical eclipse", although I feel that as scum she might seize upon Marth's "defeatist" attitude regarding her and use it more to her advantage?

Don't have a problem with Marth's case on her. Something about Gaius's case kind of bugs me, I think it's the overuse of the term "chainsaw defense" and saying the case is "different for the sake of being different"? Other than that I can see his point. Shin's voting her for sounding noncommittal, her null reads seeming to have more conviction, and handling Marth's criticism, I don't have a problem with it. Refa's vote sounds like a mix of all the reasonings above, I can't say I have an issue here.

tl;dr I don't have an issue with the reasons people are voting eclipse, and I can even see their point (especially her sounding sort of noncommittal). But I'm not completely swayed (partly because I have a hard time reading eclipse normally), and want to see if her play changes at all past D1.

as for who i would vote... with what i've formulated i want this for now

##Vote: Marth

i think trying to weasel around not making a rvs case is kinda silly and reads as him not wanting a lot of attention on his slot. which as town, is not exactly what should be an issue

[Sunwoo]

Thanks SF.

as for who i would vote... with what i've formulated i want this for now

##Vote: Marth

i think trying to weasel around not making a rvs case is kinda silly and reads as him not wanting a lot of attention on his slot. which as town, is not exactly what should be an issue

Not completely sure I agree with Manix's reasoning about Marth here, since I didn't get that impression from his explanation on why he didn't vote earlier. (That said, Marth, you should've voted earlier because getting discussion is always good.)

[Grace]

@Manix: I'm going to reverse BBM's question and ask you: Why are BBM and I worse than Blitz?

give this man the self-conscious scum medal asap

it's not like blitz is better than you two, but blitz isn't here and you are. see previous post, i said blitz is viggable.

[Refa]

Okay, I'm back now. Skimmed before but going to actually finish reading up on everything that I missed.

Again, I don't mind if you guys don't agree with my case, but now I feel like I could've literally not posted at all and it'd have the same effect as what I'm doing now >_>

TBH, from what I saw, I thought your case was pretty good but I was also hesitant because LG was scumreading the same person I was and I uh didn't really think much harder about that.

[eclipse]

There's so many. . .wait, only two pages?! WHEE~!

First off, I have four votes - enough for discussion, and it means I can be a bit lazier. I'll start from the first post unread (according to the board software), and go from there.

Requesting votals whenever you're around SB.

##Unvote: Blitz

##Vote: Eclipse

Chainsawing the Blitz wagon for apparent reason. The Crysta scum read has a lot of holes in it, especially considering my vote on Blitz follow pretty much the same exact logic down to the meta.

Ok doesn't really mention what's bad about us sheeping it, like it's ED1 why not build pressure on the first case that actually revolves around some semblance of logic. Don't understand either why Manix who was the last person on the wagon is the townier for apparently being "not above vote stacking", what does that mean and why don't you read me and Crysta like that?

Tries to push Crysta on her question not being useful either, disagree with that because she was again pressuring the first real case of the day, don't get how that's "useless" at all.

Tldr: different for sake of being different, chainsaw, lots of holes in case

You're speaking in a lot of absolutes. It's consistent with what you said about Blitz, but since your last vote was an echo, I see this as questionable.

Manix outright admitted to voting someone else because of vote-stacking. While I may not like vote-stacking as a strategy (since it shoots my associative reads), it was early enough where I didn't mind. You outright voted Blitz because of someone else's case, while trying to sound more certain about your read. This is bad, because it reads like you know who's town and who's not. I explained my problem with Crysta - like I told Marth earlier, take it or leave it. I tend to vote hypocrisy, so doing that thing that you're voting someone for is grounds for a vote in my books (hence the Crysta vote).

The read doesn't feel natural to me which I might have forgot to say in my post. Seems like she wanted something new rather than actually having a good case/conviction for her read. You seem to agree with me on the Manix part not actually making sense, and like the rest of the points behind her case just don't fall in line.

Felt perfectly fine to me.

Yo, Shin is in! I've left a cunning message hidden in my previous post, I wonder who'll be clever enough to figure it out!

A lot of the Boron/Refa thing reads like people trying to get something when there's not actually much content available. I'm not going to lecture people on the joys of RVS, but I really don't think much significant came out of that. Scum wouldn't really want to draw attention to themselves so early on with a slapfight. Boron's points on Refa are a little pedantic, but the flow of the discussion doesn't alarm me.

Blitz is really unremarkable, and was unfortunate enough to pick up votes during RVS. When he does SOMETHING, I think I'll have more of a tangible opinion of him.

I kinda agree with Strawman on BBM, it looked like an easy opportunity to get a vote in on Marth. eclipse bothers me, this post here looks decent on first inspection, but her responses to quotes don't really do very much. I guess the null reads at the bottom and case on Crysta make sense, but my SHINTUITION is alerting me to something. Marth's case makes sense, I think he actually kinda summed up how I felt where the null reads themselves didn't seem fully justified. I also dislike the interactions between the two. eclipse is really standoffish against Marth, although his self-attitude about RVS is kinda MOPEY.

Crysta's response to eclipse's case is bad though, there is no way that Blitz's joke vote was serious. The attempted justification comes off as really dismissive, as well as the approval for the other votes on the wagon. In fact, Crysta comes across as "yeah, I'm voting this guy, doesn't matter"

I've come to a wonderful conclusion where my top two reads don't make sense together but I can go after them on their INDIVIDUAL MERIT.

##Unvote

##Vote: eclipse

For those too lazy to read, eclipse's content felt very non-committed and her null reads expanded to seem more legit. I dislike how she handled criticism from Marth, but then again I can sorta see where her case on Crysta came from.

That's. . .not a lot of conviction behind that vote. And I honestly have no clue how to answer this.

Manix's vote was really bad but at the same time I feel like Manix is less likely to think about what other people are thinking than Prims is, if that makes sense. A surface level guy. Also he wasn't vote stacking on Blitz, he was referring to his earlier vote

I believe Manix referred to his earlier BBM vote. However, if Manix was willing to do that earlier, I'm not going to fault him for doing something similar later. For now. Since it was early-mid D1 IIRC.

I guess I see Paper's Prims point but I feel like Blitz's one line became a much bigger deal cuz he never came back to dissipate or aggravate the wagon on him with more content posts. It was still RVS at the time that vote was made.

IMO the worst thing Blitz has done is disappeared. Which is a Blitz tell, not a scum tell. It would be great if he came back and did SOMETHING, so I'd get a better read (and the rest of the game, too).

actually axe that question because i'm dumb and thought you were talking about the initial blitz wagon and the post you were referring to is actually on this page

go reading comprehension

Failing to read things properly is a scum move

I feel like Gaius's explanation for "scum!Blitz vibes" still feels dodgy. "Vibes" aren't enough when you don't explain them, and I'm not sure how I feel about "two people came to the same conclusion so that means there's something". I can just as easily point to C9++ mafia where both Manix and I were certain BBM was playing to his scum meta and BBM flipped town. And again, I still don't see how anyone can get any sort of meta from two posts. One of them was an RVS post, at that.

There's times when I don't have a solid case, but SOMETHING feels off. I have my own issues with Gaius, but vibes ain't one of 'em. It usually goes away by mid-D1, though.

on manix's case i can agree with marth's rvs prod not really advancing the game but it actually stands in sharp contrast to his last scum rvs where he was really aggressive in rvs and i threw him under the bus for it. i thought his eclipse case is ok because it asks the same questions that initially went through my head (namely why?) i wish she didn't kind of shut him down though.

i'm still not feeling bbm that much right now since i think attacking laziness is actually lazy and it doesn't look like he made any actual comment on marth's new content before swapping

Wasn't in the mood to argue last night. Probably won't be in much of an argument mood tonight. . .or the rest of this week. My stress quota is taken up by the end of the school year.

@Boron: Scum Blitz asks weak questions and doesn't follow up with anything about them, and his post triggered that for me. Can't really argue against over defensiveness, just thought it was a dumb thing to be cased on. Also I still stand by his seriousness not

mattering because I don't see that post as a post town would be making regardless of what the specific intent was, feel free to interpret it differently.

Boron feels like she's just pressuring me and Crysta and Manix to have someone to pressure like someone else I just cased. Like she says (paraphrase) "why half ass scum blitz questions instead of helpful town questions?" Did you read the questions, because j don't know what you find that's useful in there. Also do you think Blitz is town getting wagoned by scum or what?

@Paper: could you point towards where Prims defended the wagon because otherwise it's not really his fault that a bunch of people hopped on the wagon. I don't really have a problem with the logic in 152 Paragraph 4, but have better targets to pursue atm.

More to come soon on other stuff that happened.

This I really don't like. Go ahead and defend yourself, that's what mafia's about. But you're being quite defensive of both Crysta and Manix. So, is Blitz still scum? Because if you think that Blitz is town, then the entire wagon was built on a premise that's changed, which means that each vote should stand on its own merit. . .hell, that should be the case even if Blitz is scum.

It feels like you're trying really REALLY hard to justify your actions. And that's a scumtell in my books.

What makes Crysta worse than LG? I can get why her vote could be considered hypocritical but that's not scummy.

Your wording on Paperblade and Boron sounds like it came from a scum read (especially the italicized bits) but you have them listed as null and slightly better than null. That bothers me because your issues with them are stronger than your issues with Crysta but you voted her anyways.

It's something to remember, should the lynch swing to Paper/Boron during some later phase. At that stage of the game, it wasn't enough to vote. Since both of them have produced better content, I don't feel like voting for any of them.

And I MUST remember these things.

@Refa: Its not eclipse's job to break out of RVS, but telling Iris that she had the option of continuing RVS via shitposting tells me that she doesn't care about other players doing it too. This is really heavy on the meta and I could give examples but I don't think you'll be interested in reading them.

If I crumb any harder, I'll give away my role.

---

Crysta's recent content is better, sooo. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: Lord Gaius

It's one thing to be on a wagon. It's another to defend the entire wagon. I have issues with the latter, as well as other stuff I mentioned.

[Sunwoo]

There's times when I don't have a solid case, but SOMETHING feels off. I have my own issues with Gaius, but vibes ain't one of 'em. It usually goes away by mid-D1, though.

??? I'm not using "vibes" as a reason for my discontent with Gaius, I know exactly what my problem with him is. I'm saying that Gaius is the one using "vibes" as an explanation for his reasoning on scum!Blitz.

[eclipse]

??? I'm not using "vibes" as a reason for my discontent with Gaius, I know exactly what my problem with him is. I'm saying that Gaius is the one using "vibes" as an explanation for his reasoning on scum!Blitz.

I don't mind that. But I'm somewhat guilty of using vibes in the past, too, so I can't totally fault Gaius for it (though I usually try to put those vibes into words at a later date, partially for the benefit of the game, and partially so that I can explain myself in future games).

[Prims]

Prod dodge, had finals today and completely forgot about mafia when I got home. Will post tomorrow.

[Refa]

Did you ace them? Only scum fails finals. =)

[Refa]

##Unvote: Blitz

##Vote: Eclipse

Chainsawing the Blitz wagon for apparent reason. The Crysta scum read has a lot of holes in it, especially considering my vote on Blitz follow pretty much the same exact logic down to the meta.

Tldr: different for sake of being different, chainsaw, lots of holes in case

What were the holes in Eclipse's scum read? It was weak (which was my issue with it, because she had stronger reads in the same post) but it wasn't flawed.

Different for the sake of being different is a buzz phrase. It's not actually something you can point to and be like "this obviously has scum intent" w/o further explanation (which I didn't see in your post). Don't like this portion because it's pigeonholing Eclipse's case into a phrase w/o actually explaining why that's bad. I don't agree w/the chainsaw read being scummy either (chainsaw defenses are only scummy after a scum flip) but I can at least get where you're coming from on that one.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Manix

this is a better vote after Marth's response. Manix's vote on the Blitz wagon was the laziest, and then when called out on it just gave a reason for being lazy without actually doing or saying anything more now that he was back in the thread. I agree with Eclipse that Crysta's question is pointless (more on this later) but at least there's questioning. Eclipse's point that Manix's vote is the least bad because he was vote-stacking is null because vote stacking has diminishing marginal returns. Lazily voting to stack on someone who was already the largest wagon by at least a few votes isn't good.

Crysta can say "but I think Blitz's Gaius vote wasn't a joke!" except it's like kind of obvious that it is. More to the point, Blitz can just say "yeah it was a joke" and then what is Crysta's response? It's basically to say "oh I see" or say "NO I DON'T BELIEVE YOUR FIRST POST ONE PAGE INTO THE GAME WAS A JOKE".

Thoughts on what I said earlier about how Scum!Manix wouldn't want to vote Blitz regardless of Blitz's alignment (because it'd either be a bad play or he'd look bad later on)? Actually, I don't think I referred to Manix specifically but it was pretty obvious that that's who I was thinking of. Like, I agree with you that he hasn't done much but nothing that he's done so far has pinged me.

Oh, that's what Eclipse was getting at. Gonna need to rethink my stance on her.

The read doesn't feel natural to me which I might have forgot to say in my post. Seems like she wanted something new rather than actually having a good case/conviction for her read. You seem to agree with me on the Manix part not actually making sense, and like the rest of the points behind her case just don't fall in line.

Could you elaborate on this? What about the read gave that impression? What do you think about the points I brought up?

man i love being held to stupidly high standards.

vig this guy if he hasn't caught the entire scum team by the end of the day tbh

A lot of the Boron/Refa thing reads like people trying to get something when there's not actually much content available. I'm not going to lecture people on the joys of RVS, but I really don't think much significant came out of that. Scum wouldn't really want to draw attention to themselves so early on with a slapfight. Boron's points on Refa are a little pedantic, but the flow of the discussion doesn't alarm me.

I actually got a townread on Boron out of the whole exchange, so it was worth it for me (less so for her reasoning and moreso for her tone; I see her as someone who gets more upset if people vote her for what she considers to be dumb reasons as scum).

Too lazy to quote but I'd sheep Boron's LG and Crysta reads for sure. She articulated something that was bugging me but I couldn't quite get why, which is that neither of them explained why Blitz was playing to his scum meta as opposed to his town meta. Several people (including me) couldn't get anything out of the questions and yet they didn't really bother to explain it. I'm less bothered by Crysta for this because she hasn't played very many games w/Blitz but LG definitely should have explained where he was coming from, especially given the conviction.

@Boron: Scum Blitz asks weak questions and doesn't follow up with anything about them, and his post triggered that for me. Can't really argue against over defensiveness, just thought it was a dumb thing to be cased on.

I don't get how you could interpret that much (especially the lack of a followup at the time) from his one post, though. What kind of questions would you expect Town!Blitz to ask at that time?

And yeah, fair enough on the over defensiveness. I don't like casing people on that because town can be over defensive just as much as scum and it's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of way to read a slot.

Also I gave example of game where I thought Blitz was playing similarly as scum AND explained in more depth so like what more do you want. Sure don't lynch someone on meta alone but Blitz still hasn't defended himself and there were 0 better cases at the time.

My issues are that while you linked a game where he was playing similarly to scum, I didn't view that was a good example because Blitz only made one post in that game and in retrospect, you having a meta read on Blitz based on one post comes across as really forced to me.

Super not trying to misrep you (see: how I reacted to Marth last game D1) just saying what I interpreted and answering your question. We haven't played a ton of games together, but I guess I didn't think your tone was as aggressive as it is at times. It must've just taken me by surprise a little as you're a player that I see as someone who does a lot to advance discussion with consistent and high post counts, always in the midst of relevant discussions to be kind of shutting down another player's question I guess.

The realest thing that's been said in the past two pages. ##Unvote Real talk BBM is looking better to me and i see some good stuff in his recent posts.

FWIW, I didn't think you were acting in bad faith but that just made it worse (at least if your misrep felt scummy, I could've gotten a decent read off of that). But yeah, I can get where you're coming from. Now I'm confused for a different reason; why didn't you vote me? You have a fairly detailed read on me, which would be better than making an empty unvote.

I believe Manix referred to his earlier BBM vote. However, if Manix was willing to do that earlier, I'm not going to fault him for doing something similar later. For now. Since it was early-mid D1 IIRC.

This I really don't like. Go ahead and defend yourself, that's what mafia's about. But you're being quite defensive of both Crysta and Manix. So, is Blitz still scum? Because if you think that Blitz is town, then the entire wagon was built on a premise that's changed, which means that each vote should stand on its own merit. . .hell, that should be the case even if Blitz is scum.

It feels like you're trying really REALLY hard to justify your actions. And that's a scumtell in my books.

It's something to remember, should the lynch swing to Paper/Boron during some later phase. At that stage of the game, it wasn't enough to vote. Since both of them have produced better content, I don't feel like voting for any of them.

And I MUST remember these things.

Crysta's recent content is better, sooo. . .

This line made my day.

Also would sheep your quoted issue with LG. Like I said before, I'm fine with him being over defensive but I don't like how he's defending Crysta and Manix without really having any defined read on either of them (as far as I can tell, anyways). LG, what are your thoughts on these slots (OMG that rhymed, day made again)?

Regarding your defense, what made those cases not enough to be voted on but your case on Crysta viable? I can get not wanting to vote for Boron/Paperblade now, but your thought process at the time makes no sense.

What is better about Crysta's content now? Also I don't think you ever answered Boron's issue here ("That said, I want to know what her thoughts on Gaius are because she considered his and Crysta's the most suspicious, but only mentions Crysta in her vote and comments.") and it'd be cool if you did that because she brought up a good point.

[Refa]

I realize my thoughts are kind of scattered, so here's a condensed version.

Crysta- Like I explained, I have ISSUES with the way she handled her Blitz case. However, something that's bothering more as I type this up is that I can't really remember her doing anything else outside of that.

Eclipse- Not as convinced WRT my reasoning for voting her (because I can better understand her ISSUES with Crysta, which have now become my issues get conscripted) but I want her to answer my remaining questions before I rethink my stance. Also while Marth's vote on her is good, I'm not really convinced on the other two.

Gaius- Whoo boy, where to begin with this one? Despite being pretty confident in his Blitz vote, I don't feel like he adequately backed it up. To be fair to him though, a lot of my issues are based purely on his RVS content which I can get him being defensive about because it feels shit to be cased on an RVS vote throughout the game despite having better content later on. What I'm trying to say here is that despite it taking up more space of my read on him, I don't view it being as important as my other issues with him; that is to say, his Eclipse case (which kind of rubs me the wrong way in general) and him defending Crysta/Manix despite not having any defined reads on them (which is pretty bad).

Iris- I don't actually have a read on her but I joined this game to MAFIA with her and she's not here! ;_;

Marthipan- Don't agree with the reads on him because he's talked to me about hating RVS and intentionally trying to avoid it before. I agree that him not voting Eclipse is bad play (heck, I thought it was scum play previously), but with his explanation, I can see why he'd do that as town and I'm fine with his explanations (didn't reply to his post @ me but that's because my reply was literally "fair enough" to both of his points which was a waste of space).

[Refa]

HOLD UP EVERYONE CRUCIAL EDIT TO MY WALL POST HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS MISTAKE SOONER

Felt perfectly fine to me.

This was the line that made my day.

[Crysta]

actually re-reading gaius's #163 i have no idea why manix even sneaked in there because i don't think boron was pressuring him.

will say more stuff later.

[eclipse]

Regarding your defense, what made those cases not enough to be voted on but your case on Crysta viable? I can get not wanting to vote for Boron/Paperblade now, but your thought process at the time makes no sense.

What is better about Crysta's content now? Also I don't think you ever answered Boron's issue here ("That said, I want to know what her thoughts on Gaius are because she considered his and Crysta's the most suspicious, but only mentions Crysta in her vote and comments.") and it'd be cool if you did that because she brought up a good point.

Oh hey, stuff I can actually answer~!

- I did my wall as I read through the game. Eventually, both Paperblade and Boron gave their opinion of Blitz, which made the initial distancing feel closer to "something I should note down for future reference" as opposed to "something I should vote". I suppose there could be an argument about the timing of their statements, but Paper actively did things with his request (he got an opinion of Blitz, though I don't know if he read more than Ragnarok Online), and Boron was a bit late to the show to begin with.

- Instead of just sitting on "OMG I'm being voted", she's branched out by responding to other people (Boron, you), while giving her thoughts about Yours Truly, BBM, and Marth (off the top of my head). I'd say that she's advancing the game, which is enough to move my attention elsewhere.

- It was that question Crysta asked Blitz, which I felt was just as pointless as the questions Blitz himself asked. Otherwise, I would've flipped a coin.

[Sunwoo]

- It was that question Crysta asked Blitz, which I felt was just as pointless as the questions Blitz himself asked. Otherwise, I would've flipped a coin.

Fair enough on that.

actually re-reading gaius's #163 i have no idea why manix even sneaked in there because i don't think boron was pressuring him.

You'd be right on that. Although Manix's vote did bug me, his response to (I think) BBM seemed too blasé for scum, and it seemed like he was in a weird time/posting situation so it didn't bother me as much. On the contrary, I think I let him off the hook as opposed to pressuring him.

[Shin]

That's. . .not a lot of conviction behind that vote. And I honestly have no clue how to answer this.

I'll just pretend that means my case is so perfect that it is unrefutable and I will win medals for my contribution to town service. Votes are allowed to not have conviction, I tend to write things out as I read so there will be things that bother me to a minor degree. I still feel that your Crysta vote is weak and considering the alternative options, the logic behind picking her isn't there. The take it or leave it is still really stand-off ish, and doesn't really help discussion.

Crysta, after all that's happened so far, why is your vote still on Blitz? I've reread a lot of your posts and a lot of it still centres around a guy who hasn't posted in nearly 2 days. I'm slightly more reassured by some of the later posts, but I'm really struggling to see any sort of lynch priority.

Manix doesn't really have many tangible opinions, the apathy is real. He's at least following the thread to know that things have occured, but his commentary about them is really limited. I can't really put a solid case down for being lazy, town can be lazy too, but he's at least aware of what's in the game, he's just not responding about it. I disagree with the Marth vote, it sounded more like Marth being a WEENIE rather than necessarily scummy.

BBM, I don't get where your Marth case is coming from. Is it because it was part of the eclipse votes and stood out as the most bad?

Those are my WORDS for this morning. I've been kinda SLEEPY since finals ended but hopefully I'll get my SHINergy back soon!

[BBM]

eclipse, what's the scum motivation in defending the rest of the Blitz wagon? It feels like you're attacking sub-optimal play rather than scummy play in your Gaius vote. I think Refa's point there about Gaius defending them despite not having a read on them is more on the point.

give this man the self-conscious scum medal asap

it's not like blitz is better than you two, but blitz isn't here and you are. see previous post, i said blitz is viggable.

...what was even self-conscious about that line?

I slept on it and feel super unconfident in both my top reads. Marth is talking like he's town and is less reactionary and shit-stirring than he is as scum, but I don't like the eclipse case and he hasn't really pushed anyone else all game. Manix's tone is off but everyone else seems to be ok with it so I'm kind of questioning myself.

##Unvote

empty unvotes suck but I don't have time for a reread right now. I should have more time this evening than the past two evenings. I feel like most of the active people are town in-fighting.

The people I'm least confident about are eclipse, Paper, and Crysta. I was townreading eclipse earlier but I'm not a huge fan of her Gaius case. Paper just kind of feels unmemorable and although he's asking people about stuff it feels like he's parked on a hipster wagon. I thought Crysta's Blitz vote at the beginning was worse than Gaius's because it felt like she was tacking on the part about Blitz's first post actually maybe being serious to make it look like she wasn't just sheeping, even though it was completely obvious it was a joke. I haven't actually read Crysta's posts since then that carefully but I read eclipse's changing opinion on her and that makes me feel better about Crysta.

Shin, Strawman, Prims, and Iris are kind of null.

[ZoesMad]

I had quotes and everything and now I'm pissed.

@Crysta, Refa, Boron: I'm really defending Crysta and Manix because I got the sense that people were attacking the wagon as an entity instead of individual scummy acts on said wagon, which should have been pretty clear in my Eclipse case and defense against Boron. As for Manix and Crysta, I feel slightly worse about Crysta because with Manix I feel like scum wouldn't be so non-chalant (if this is in Manix's meta sue me) and more to come about Crysta.

Would agree with Shin about Crysta's lynch priority not being clear and would want a more firm answer. He also pretty much answered my rationale with Manix.

Strawman and Iris seem to be steering pretty far away from current discussion of topics and like, nothing they've said has made me go "oh you're sure as hell scum" but on the flip side not seen anything super townie either. Would want them to talk about some of the more hot topics.

Shin WAS in that list but #196 was pretty good imo.

everyone: What's the line between defending and over justifying because I don't think I've done the latter, since every time someone says I've done that I was pressured

Also Refa has sheeped a lot of Eclipse reasoning and jumped on me all while voting Eclipse and I think that's pretty bad but want other opinions because I'm not super confident with it.

Class now

[SB.]

The Late Day Votals
(4) eclipse: Marth, Gaius, Shin, Refa

(3) Blitz: Iris, Prims, Crysta
(3) Gaius: Blitz, Boron, eclipse
(1) Marth: Manix
(1) Prims: Paperblade
(2) Not Voting: Strawman, BBM

Around 9 hours remain. With 14 alive, it takes 5 to deadline lynch and 10 to hammer

Edited May 26, 2016 by SB.

[SB.]

Also I'm prodding Blitz now.