Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Bartozio]

2 minutes ago, JSND said:

Fe14 you miss scarlet

Figures when I was thinking about what Conquest character I missed...

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Figures when I was thinking about what Conquest character I missed...

she appearaed in conquest close enuff

 

I kinda find it funny how much better female mages are in general than males in FEH when Male mage kinda dominate the series

I mean male mage have mr. nerfed-in-every-consecutive-game-he-appeared-in.

[Xenomata]

You guys respond way too fast sometimes, but that's okay.

30 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Looking at the tier list, it's mostly mages and lance users where females are dominant (and staff users, obviously, but those are all placed relativly low on tier lists anyway). For instance, while Bridelia is the best archer, most other female archers are not that great and there's plenty of good male archers.

Compared to game release, we only had one Female archer, two if you look at Niles the wrong way. Setsuna, who basically predeceased the now classic Bridelia LnD3 Brave Bow build. She wasn't as good as Bridelia, but still. We only get Faye, Clarissa, and Rebecca later, and only after Klein, Leon, and Bridelia were released. Of course if we're going by the game on release, Takumi was a piece of crap who deserves to die a slow and painful death at the hands of his own shortcomings (spoilers), but my point is that the archers didn't even have that many good contenders until later on. And it's always the ones added later on that do well, so...

 

Anyways, I know the units heavily inspire from how they function in their original appearance and the gender assignments in each game (Dancer? Female! Flying horse/dragon? Usually the future wife of the main character! Mages? Boobies are just fleshy Magical Orbs! God I can't believe I thought it was a good idea to type all this out...), but it can't be that heavy a coincidence when they still must be picking out units from each game to feature. I mean, pick any one unit in the game right now, and I bet anything there's at least one unit across ALL of Fire Emblem who could function the same as them, save a stat alteration or two. If it boils down to a popularity contest, then yeah it all makes sense why they would give us the more likable and fleshed out characters as some of the best characters in the game, and later put them in fetish outfits and bikinis, and it just so happens they are mostly female.

...I sound really critical, but I swear I'm not.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

4 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

You guys respond way too fast sometimes, but that's okay.

Compared to game release, we only had one Female archer, two if you look at Niles the wrong way. Setsuna, who basically predeceased the now classic Bridelia LnD3 Brave Bow build. She wasn't as good as Bridelia, but still. We only get Faye, Clarissa, and Rebecca later, and only after Klein, Leon, and Bridelia were released. Of course if we're going by the game on release, Takumi was a piece of crap who deserves to die a slow and painful death at the hands of his own shortcomings (spoilers), but my point is that the archers didn't even have that many good contenders until later on. And it's always the ones added later on that do well, so...

 

Anyways, I know the units heavily inspire from how they function in their original appearance and the gender assignments in each game (Dancer? Female! Flying horse/dragon? Usually the future wife of the main character! Mages? Boobies are just fleshy Magical Orbs! God I can't believe I thought it was a good idea to type all this out...), but it can't be that heavy a coincidence when they still must be picking out units from each game to feature. I mean, pick any one unit in the game right now, and I bet anything there's at least one unit across ALL of Fire Emblem who could function the same as them, save a stat alteration or two. If it boils down to a popularity contest, then yeah it all makes sense why they would give us the more likable and fleshed out characters as some of the best characters in the game, and later put them in fetish outfits and bikinis, and it just so happens they are mostly female.

...I sound really critical, but I swear I'm not.

 

 

Takumi shits on Setsuna in every single way possible as a LnD3 Brave Bow user. How did he die a painful death over Setsuna lol

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by JSND

[Xenomata]

12 minutes ago, JSND said:

 

Your logic on Archer did not make sense

 

Takumi shits on Setsuna in every single way possible as a LnD3 Brave Bow user

If you go +Att on Takumi, he only has 33 speed so he can't outspeed crap, making the speed basically serve as Slow unit killing and avoiding being outsped. Of course he will have 48 attack, but you may as well run -Spd and Death Blow 3, and at that point you may as well run with Gordin or Leon if your speed isn't going to matter anyways. Go +Speed, and Takumi is only one point stronger than +Att Setsuna and still only sitting at 36 speed, one point slower than Setsuna, effectively making them the same unit if only looking at offensive stats.

So basically yeah +Attack Takumi is better than +Attack Setsuna, but they use Brave bow differently, Setsuna attacking 4 times weakly and Takumi 2 times strongly, and other units do 2 times strongly better. Besides, I was talking about when the game had only barely released skill inheritance and people were still using Fujin Yumi Takumi, but slapping Vantage on him.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Xenomata

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

4 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

If you go +Att on Takumi, he only has 33 speed so he can't outspeed crap, making the speed basically serve as Slow unit killing and avoiding being outsped. Of course he will have 48 attack, but you may as well run -Spd and Death Blow 3, and at that point you may as well run with Gordin or Leon if your speed isn't going to matter anyways. Go +Speed, and Takumi is only one point stronger than +Att Setsuna and still only sitting at 36 speed, one point slower than Setsuna, effectively making them the same unit if only looking at offensive stats.

So basically yeah +Attack Takumi is better than +Attack Setsuna, but they use Brave bow differently, Setsuna attacking 4 times weakly and Takumi 2 times strongly, and other units do 2 times strongly better. Besides, I was talking about when the game had only barely released skill inheritance and people were still using Takumi, but slapping Vantage on him.

The difference is Setsuna NEED to attack 4 times on stuff Takumi can outright kill in 2 shot

The +Spd setsuna is actually so bad, if you calculate it, +ATk - SPD Setsuna is better than +SPD Setsuna

 

The only reason Setsuna got attention over Takumi is basically because of meme. In reality TKJ shits on Setsuna

Edited August 1, 2017 by JSND

[Xenomata]

Just now, JSND said:

The difference is Setsuna NEED to attack 4 times on stuff Takumi can outright kill in 2 shot

 

The only reason Setsuna got attention over Takumi is basically because of meme. In reality TKJ shits on Setsuna

Wait what, this is the first time I heard of a meme.

[Vaximillian]

@Xenomata Archetypes are a thing. Girls started pew-pew with magic and magical horsebirds and everything back in FE1, and it keeps happening.

Also, the only thing Setsuna is good at is 0×4. And Bowbreaker.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

35 minutes ago, JSND said:

I kinda find it funny how much better female mages are in general than males in FEH when Male mage kinda dominate the series

I mean male mage have mr. nerfed-in-every-consecutive-game-he-appeared-in.

I don't know much about Archanea, so idk if those games are male mage dominated

Jugdral has Sety the god.

Early game Kliff was pretty good in OG Gaiden, but the best mage was Sonya by far. In Echoes, the female mages have all gotten buffed and Kliff is now ass. Mage Tobin is around though.

FE6's best mage was like... Lugh. Niime doesn't really count I guess.

FE7 is a no brainer. Erk, Lucius, Canas, Pent, Athos...

FE8 has Saleh, but he's not that great on Ephraim route. I guess best mage would be Artur.

FE9 doesn't really have a clear best mage kinda? Perhaps Soren, but his start is as terrible as the other options.

RIP FE10 mages. Micaiah is "the best" I guess.

Robin can be male or female in FE13... Ricken is ass though, and Henry is just alright. Tharja and Miriel are nice.

Fates doesn't even have good Gen I mages... Ophelia is a goddess, but before that I guess... Nyx? Rev Hayato?

Edited August 1, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I don't know much about Archanea, so idk if those games are male mage dominated

Jugdral has Sety the god.

Early game Kliff was pretty good in OG Gaiden, but the best mage was Sonya by far. In Echoes, the female mages have all gotten buffed and Kliff is now ass.

FE6's best mage was like... Lugh. Niime doesn't really count I guess.

FE7 is a no brainer. Erk, Lucius, Canas, Pent, Athos...

FE8 has Saleh, but he's not that great on Ephraim route. I guess best mage would be Artur.

FE9 doesn't really have a clear best mage kinda? Perhaps Soren, but his start is as terrible as the other options.

RIP FE10 mages. Micaiah is "the best" I guess.

Robin can be male or female in FE13... Ricken is ass though, and Henry is just alright. Tharja and Miriel are nice.

Fates doesn't even have good Gen I mages... Ophelia is a goddess, but before that I guess... Nyx? Rev Hayato?

 

Lol did you actually play OG Gaiden? the only mage i used atm in Echoes is Luthier because i choose Deen since i heard DF is OP lol

If you exclude Staffbots mages are male dominant

FE4 best mage is Holsety wielder which is all male

FE5 best mage is Asvel. Olwen is really worse than Olson

FE6 best mages is tied between Lugh and Lilina if Niime doesn't count. IDK Lilina got so hyped in recent days

 

 

Archanea Mage isn't exactly male dominated as much as Wendell existing

Edited August 1, 2017 by JSND

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 minutes ago, JSND said:

Lol did you actually play OG Gaiden?

FE6 best mages is tied between Lugh and Lilina if Niime doesn't count. IDK Lilina got so hyped in recent days

 

Archanea Mage isn't exactly male dominated as much as Wendell existing

I didn't actually play Gaiden myself, though my friend did and he kept me posted.

Lilina just isn't worth the effort to train, since she joins late for her bases. Though I still would because Lilina. But objectively Lugh is just better I think. Hugh would be the best if he didn't cost an arm and a leg.

How good is Linde?

Edited August 1, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I didn't actually play Gaiden myself, though my friend did and he kept me posted.

Lilina just isn't worth the effort to train, since she joins late for her bases. Though I still would because Lilina. But objectively Lugh is just better I think. Hugh would be the best if he didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Lilina kinda got hyped recently lol since apparently she's good for LTC or something. I don't really know the details since everytime i played FE6, i used the standard Marcus into Rutger into Miledy into Percival and then abuse Niime and MW2P because Niime is a clearly fair and balanced character lol

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

3 minutes ago, JSND said:

Lilina kinda got hyped recently lol since apparently she's good for LTC or something. I don't really know the details since everytime i played FE6, i used the standard Marcus into Rutger into Miledy into Percival and then abuse Niime and MW2P because Niime is a clearly fair and balanced character lol

I heard about that Lilina thing. Apparently if the RNG is rigged or something (so it's not a real LTC, to an extent), then Lilina just happens to be the one min-maxed enough to do the wack Bolting strats.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 hours ago, JSND said:

Which makes me wonder, if Leif would have Light Sword or Totally Not Ragnell as his signature weapon

Hopefully the Light Brand; it would finally be a chance to integrate non-Tome/Staff Res hitters. They missed their chance to do it with Grey or something via the Lightning Sword.

If they gave us the Bragi Sword, well there would be a slim chance it wouldn't be personal, since Leif isn't the only one who can use it, he has 3 other contenders, and were it not for a personal lock limit of 4 units, Marita and Galzus would be able to swing it as well. But who am I kidding? A lord's weapon will always be locked to them.

1 hour ago, JSND said:

Dancer is female only class barring Reyson

I know Nailah is the dominant one in the relationship, but that doesn't make Rafiel a woman.

You also forgot Elffin. And Nils (we could use a shotakete, we have too many loliketes, but MANaketes are what we really need).

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hopefully the Light Brand; it would finally be a chance to integrate non-Tome/Staff Res hitters. They missed their chance to do it with Grey or something via the Lightning Sword.

If they gave us the Bragi Sword, well there would be a slim chance it wouldn't be personal, since Leif isn't the only one who can use it, he has 3 other contenders, and were it not for a personal lock limit of 4 units, Marita and Galzus would be able to swing it as well. But who am I kidding? A lord's weapon will always be locked to them.

I know Nailah is the dominant one in the relationship, but that doesn't make Rafiel a woman.

You also forgot Elffin. And Nils (we could use a shotakete, we have too many loliketes, but MANaketes are what we really need).

holy fuck i do forget the later because Ninian is the dancer most of the game lol

 

Reyson gave such an impression on me because he's the most badass character in Telius

[Xenomata]

25 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

@Xenomata Archetypes are a thing. Girls started pew-pew with magic and magical horsebirds and everything back in FE1, and it keeps happening.

Also, the only thing Setsuna is good at is 0×4. And Bowbreaker.

Maybe they did, but we could have just as easily gotten a few more male Wyvern Riders than we did in Heroes, same for Male Mages.

Also, what do you mean 0x4. What are you throwing a LnD3 BB+ +Att 43 attack Setsuna at, not even including stat boosts, that does less damage than a pea shooter firing spit. Not even comparing to Takumi or Bridelia or anything. Setsuna should be doing at least 20 damage before the enemy gets to attack, not factoring Vantage or Desperation.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Xenomata

[SniperGYS]

This has nothing to do with whatever you are talking about but I just noticed recently tha I can't exp abuse healers... I didn't now that they stop gaining exp after some turns :/

[Xenomata]

4 minutes ago, SniperGYS said:

This has nothing to do with whatever you are talking about but I just noticed recently tha I can't exp abuse healers... I didn't now that they stop gaining exp after some turns :/

Yeah, most battles go by fast enough that you don't notice, but it REALLY hurts when you want to give them all the EXP and you can't because they get like half a level and they're done.

It really only hurts when you are forced to put a healer in a situation where they have a chance to be in combat though. Cause, you know, they're probably much slower and brittler than the enemy.

[Beddlam]

1 hour ago, JSND said:

 

 

Takumi shits on Setsuna in every single way possible as a LnD3 Brave Bow user. How did he die a painful death over Setsuna lol

 

Best Nature (+spd) for brave bow LnD Takumi is 44 attack, 36 speed.

Best Nature (+atk) for brave bow LnD Setsuna is 43 attack, 37 speed.

They are functionally identical, but Setsuna is available at 3 stars so you are much more likely to get her with a good nature, and she doesn't have to give up a legendary bow and one of the most valuable A-skills in the game to run this build.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

9 minutes ago, Beddlam said:

Best Nature (+spd) for brave bow LnD Takumi is 44 attack, 36 speed.

Best Nature (+atk) for brave bow LnD Setsuna is 43 attack, 37 speed.

They are functionally identical, but Setsuna is available at 3 stars so you are much more likely to get her with a good nature, and she doesn't have to give up a legendary bow and one of the most valuable A-skills in the game to run this build.

Best nature for both is +ATK

 

HA Takumi with +ATK and LND is 134 wins · 0 losses · 18 draws

HA Setsuna with 121 wins · 2 losses · 29 draws  with +ATK, 117 wins · 2 losses · 33 draws  with +SPD

 

With Fury Override Setsuna drops into 87 wins · 2 losses · 63 draws as +SPD and 94 wins · 2 losses · 56 draws  as +ATK

Takumi stays at 112 wins · 1 losses · 39 draws

 

 

Also while i agree that Setsuna being 3* make her alvailable for best nature more easilly, the skill shift from Setsuna is identical to Takumi. They need to change their entire skillset all the same

 

Takumi have Legendary Bow, but that doesn't matter because Fujin Yumi is fucking trash and Close Counter is meh. Vantage Takumi in general is a trash set that get carried by ranged attacker being a great trait

Edited August 1, 2017 by JSND

[MrSmokestack]

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

Maybe they did, but we could have just as easily gotten a few more male Wyvern Riders than we did in Heroes, same for Male Mages.

Also, what do you mean 0x4. What are you throwing a LnD3 BB+ +Att 43 attack Setsuna at, not even including stat boosts, that does less damage than a pea shooter firing spit. Not even comparing to Takumi or Bridelia or anything. Setsuna should be doing at least 20 damage before the enemy gets to attack, not factoring Vantage or Desperation.

Oh nothing special really, just your average arena Hector.

Spoiler

• Setsuna attacks. 4 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 52 → 48
• Setsuna attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. 4 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 48 → 44
• Setsuna makes an immediate follow-up attack [Desperation 3]. 4 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 44 → 40
• Setsuna attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. Resolve combat as if opponent suffered a 50% defense/resistance reduction [Luna]. 24 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 40 → 16
• Hector counter-attacks, ignoring distance [Distant Counter]. 35 damage dealt. 
  Setsuna HP: 27 → 0

On the other token:

Spoiler

• Takumi attacks. 8 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 52 → 44
• Takumi attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. 8 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 44 → 36
• Takumi makes an immediate follow-up attack [Desperation 3]. 8 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 36 → 28
• Takumi attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. Resolve combat as if opponent suffered a 50% defense/resistance reduction [Luna]. 28 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 28 → 0

Yeah, 4 extra points of Atk makes a huge difference. Spd only matters insofar as you can quad things that would KO you on the counter otherwise. The majority of the time, your Atk matters more. TKJ and Bride Cordelia have it in spades.

Setsuna was never the best user of the Brave Bow set, while Takumi was always the best archer in the game before Bride Cordelia became a thing. 

Sets for people that care:

Spoiler

Takumi [+ATK/-RES]
40 HP / 48 ATK / 33 SPD / 20 DEF / 9 RES
Weapon: Brave Bow+
Assist: Draw Back
Special: Luna
Passive A: Life and Death 3
Passive B: Desperation 3
Passive C: Threaten Spd 3
Sacred Seal: Attack +1

Setsuna [+ATK/-RES]
37 HP / 44 ATK / 37 SPD / 17 DEF / 15 RES
Weapon: Brave Bow+
Assist: Draw Back
Special: Luna
Passive A: Life and Death 3
Passive B: Desperation 3
Sacred Seal: Attack +1

 

Hector [+DEF/-SPD]
52 HP / 52 ATK / 21 SPD / 40 DEF / 19 RES
Weapon: Armads
Special: Pavise
Passive A: Distant Counter
Passive C: Goad Armor

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

3 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Oh nothing special really, just your average arena Hector.

  Reveal hidden contents

• Setsuna attacks. 4 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 52 → 48
• Setsuna attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. 4 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 48 → 44
• Setsuna makes an immediate follow-up attack [Desperation 3]. 4 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 44 → 40
• Setsuna attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. Resolve combat as if opponent suffered a 50% defense/resistance reduction [Luna]. 24 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 40 → 16
• Hector counter-attacks, ignoring distance [Distant Counter]. 35 damage dealt. 
  Setsuna HP: 27 → 0

On the other token:

  Reveal hidden contents

• Takumi attacks. 8 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 52 → 44
• Takumi attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. 8 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 44 → 36
• Takumi makes an immediate follow-up attack [Desperation 3]. 8 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 36 → 28
• Takumi attacks again immediately [Brave Bow+]. Resolve combat as if opponent suffered a 50% defense/resistance reduction [Luna]. 28 damage dealt. 
  Hector HP: 28 → 0

Yeah, 4 extra points of Atk makes a huge difference. Spd only matters insofar as you can quad things that would KO you on the counter otherwise. The majority of the time, your Atk matters more. TKJ and Bride Cordelia have it in spades.

Setsuna was never a good user of the Brave Bow set. Takumi was always the best archer in the game before Bride Cordelia became a thing. 

Sets for people that care:

  Hide contents

Takumi [+ATK/-RES]
40 HP / 48 ATK / 33 SPD / 20 DEF / 9 RES
Weapon: Brave Bow+
Assist: Draw Back
Special: Luna
Passive A: Life and Death 3
Passive B: Desperation 3
Passive C: Threaten Spd 3
Sacred Seal: Attack +1

Setsuna [+ATK/-RES]
37 HP / 44 ATK / 37 SPD / 17 DEF / 15 RES
Weapon: Brave Bow+
Assist: Draw Back
Special: Luna
Passive A: Life and Death 3
Passive B: Desperation 3
Sacred Seal: Attack +1

 

Hector [+DEF/-SPD]
52 HP / 52 ATK / 21 SPD / 40 DEF / 19 RES
Weapon: Armads
Special: Pavise
Passive A: Distant Counter
Passive C: Goad Armor

 

this set example is fake as fuck and clearly isn't Smokestack because it doesn't have Reposition

Edited August 1, 2017 by JSND

[MrSmokestack]

Just now, JSND said:

Dude this set example is fake as fuck and clearly isn't Smokestack because it doesn't have Reposition

I have brought shame upon myself! Have mercy on me friend!

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

5 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I have brought shame upon myself! Have mercy on me friend!

Seriously speaking though i kinda don't get the merit behind Draw Back. In theory it have the whole "safety for the user" thing but mostly i used Repos to save the stuff in front instead of the user, so DB's supposed niche ended up being wasted. On the reverse its offensive usage is much weaker in a clunky way

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I don't know much about Archanea, so idk if those games are male mage dominated

FE3 Book 1 only had Merric and Linde. Merric was weak and fast and had HP and Excalibur. Linde was weak and faster and had Aura.

FE3 Book 2 added Ellerean. He was weaker and slower and rather useless, but had the most HP.

 

1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

FE8 has Saleh, but he's not that great on Ephraim route. I guess best mage would be Artur.

Lute was faster and stronger than Artur and has a 30 Mag cap.

 

1 hour ago, JSND said:

Archanea Mage isn't exactly male dominated as much as Wendell existing

Wendel is shit outside of the remakes.