Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Zinnia]

I'm so happy about seeing my boy Inigo having his dream came true!

I've been complaining about needing another more since forever, so hopefully I can get anyone this time! Gotta save the orbs! Yet the best thing of the banner is the Norh's Lost in Toughs music on the paralogue, I swear I had an eargasm when I fist heard it!! 

[Vaximillian]

So Inigo gets his second “sort of in” in my table, while Shigure gets his first. I don’t really count alternate appearances.

[Birdy]

1 hour ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

That legendary sounds so fucking terrible its hilarious how bad it is

Pray tell, why is that? I personally see it being amazing, especially on LitrBlade units. Dance/Sing is already a skill I value most, this only makes it even better. 

[Cute Chao]

Inigo and Shigure!!!! Yaaaaay!!!

Never have I been so happy to see a banner. This looks amazing. I want all the units, but I'm going to focus on those two first. I have 300 orbs saved up, but I've had such good luck on the two banners I didn't care about that I'm worried >.<

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

9 minutes ago, Birdy said:

Pray tell, why is that? I personally see it being amazing, especially on LitrBlade units. Dance/Sing is already a skill I value most, this only makes it even better. 

Think about it like this. If you use litrblade, how many time did you use dance to move closer to enemy and kill instead of using the pre-buffed litr blade to kill, then use the dance to kill another enemy, or move away from line of fire. Using it as a primary buff effectively downgrade dance into rally. 

 

Practically speaking the new weapon is almost flavor text on a vanilla card kind of useless. It would still be good in the bigger picture because dance is already broken. If you buff broken skill badly it would still be broken because thats what they were before buff

 

Nevermind the B skill. The b skill that increase atk is beyond trash. The b skill thet increase spd is trash. The b skill that increase defensive stats is ok. None of them is escape route/wom/qr/breaker

Edited September 28, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Birdy]

12 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Think about it like this. If you use litrblade, how many time did you use dance to move closer to enemy and kill instead of using the pre-buffed litr blade to kill, then use the dance to kill another enemy, or move away from line of fire. Using it as a primary buff effectively downgrade dance into rally. 

 

Practically speaking the new weapon is almost flavor text on a vanilla card kind of useless. It would still be good in the bigger picture because dance is already broken. If you buff broken skill badly it would still be broken because thats what they were before buff

A decent amount of times honestly. There's a lot of different situations where I could see it coming in real handy. I mostly use Drive skills, so Azura's weapon boost won't overlap. Also, more than the situations you already explained, you can use Sing on the unit you're baiting with, granting them a +3 to all stats (combined with all the drive skills), which I feel is huge. So yeah, on the first turn it's basically a huge Rally All.

After that, on player phase, you're right in that the first strike won't get buffed, but it still makes dance more broken than it already was. Giving +3 to all stats > not giving +3 to all stats and it will undoubtly swing even more match-ups in your favor because of it. It doesn't matter if dance/sing was already broken, this makes it even more broken. 

 

Edit to your Edit: I actually agree that the B-skills are not that great and probably won't see much use. I value other skills like vantage/wrath/breaker/wary fighter and others much more. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Birdy

[DehNutCase]

33 minutes ago, Birdy said:

Edit to your Edit: I actually agree that the B-skills are not that great and probably won't see much use. I value other skills like vantage/wrath/breaker/wary fighter and others much more. 

Do you honestly value vantage/wrath/breaker/wary on dancers? If a dancer's seeing combat at all it'll be because she has triangle advantage and TA, or else fighting something really shitty. (Mind, the tome dancers will be hitting things to death because -blade is overpowered, but their coverage won't change too much from the addition of a breaker because, assuming decent offensive stats, they'll be doing the kind of thing that a good offense unit does: Anything fast enough to not be doubled is OHKOd, anything tanky enough to survive one hit is doubled, meaning breakers would have minimal value. Raven TA would also be a nice option, of course, and might even be the better option in teams that are already full of offensive nukers---you wouldn't need another nuke since a dancer would give your nuker(s) another turn, but a dancer being a -raven tank means that the dancer adds great enemy phase coverage.)

WoM or Escape route is nice, but certain team comps (like mine) are sufficiently fragile that the mobility boost simply doesn't happen reliably enough to matter, since they'll go from 100% to 0% rather than something below half.

 

 

Regarding Azura's Prf: There's no way an assist that floors at the better of dance or rally spectrum would be a bad skill. Azura's dance will always, no exceptions, be better than Rally Spectrum or a Dance. If Rally Spectrum was more useful than a dance, you simply end the unit's turn and get +3 all stats to nuke someone to oblivion (assuming -blade or very barely missed KO). If dance was better then you just dance.

Yes, the situations where it's nearly as good as dance and rally spectrum would basically never happen (because you'd need to be hitting 2 things with very different bulks---since the pre-dance combat is significantly worse than post-dance combat), but it's not like the option isn't there. The skill combo's floor and ceiling is absurdly high, because, at worst, you're getting the better of a dance or a rally spectrum, at best, you're getting a dance and a rally spectrum.

It basically turns Azura into the better of Eirika or Azura in any given turn.

Edit: It's basically doing the thing that CC Vantage Reinhardt does, fufilling two different roles at once. -Blade Reinhardt acts as a classic -blade Nuker on player phase, but CC Vantage means that he's an enemy phase monster on enemy phase. Not quite that absurd, of course, because Reinhardt can kill one unit and then do a full enemy phase reasonably consistently, whereas Azura would only rarely get to be Eirika and Azura at once. But it's the same idea---anything that can do two roles is significantly better than something that can only do one thing. 'Charms' tend to be very overpriced mana-wise in magic because of that---each individual effect tends to be weak, but you get to pick from three effects.

Edited September 28, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Infinite Dreams]

2 hours ago, Kiran said:

I'm not sure how to feel about them locking 4 dancers behind a seasonal banner. 

Mmhmm, my thoughts exactly.  I'm so in love with this banner, but I'm not liking how a lot of the banners are seasonal lately!    I would like more characters to get added to the main pool to have another chance to get them later...

[Rinco]

I'm letting Crimean banner end with 5.25% rate. Not spending my last 5-10 orbs on it.

I want dancers.

[Cute Chao]

I'm actually happy the last banner was so crappy for me now... I mean, I might have gone all out if they had included Kieran or Geoffrey and wouldn't have any orbs...

However, my really good luck for the last two banners I didn't care about will likely count against me. Watch as 300 orbs count for nothing -.-

And I really hope I get more Barsts as fodder, if I have to have a lot of fodder. I really need Reposition right now xD

[Zeo]

So who said they were going to save their orbs again?

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, Zeo said:

So who said they were going to save their orbs again?

My goal is one new dancer, but after that, who knows. I'll probably start getting that stockpile back, especially for the next Elincia banner.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

Do you honestly value vantage/wrath/breaker/wary on dancers? If a dancer's seeing combat at all it'll be because she has triangle advantage and TA, or else fighting something really shitty. (Mind, the tome dancers will be hitting things to death because -blade is overpowered, but their coverage won't change too much from the addition of a breaker because, assuming decent offensive stats, they'll be doing the kind of thing that a good offense unit does: Anything fast enough to not be doubled is OHKOd, anything tanky enough to survive one hit is doubled, meaning breakers would have minimal value. Raven TA would also be a nice option, of course, and might even be the better option in teams that are already full of offensive nukers---you wouldn't need another nuke since a dancer would give your nuker(s) another turn, but a dancer being a -raven tank means that the dancer adds great enemy phase coverage.)

WoM or Escape route is nice, but certain team comps (like mine) are sufficiently fragile that the mobility boost simply doesn't happen reliably enough to matter, since they'll go from 100% to 0% rather than something below half.

 

 

Regarding Azura's Prf: There's no way an assist that floors at the better of dance or rally spectrum would be a bad skill. Azura's dance will always, no exceptions, be better than Rally Spectrum or a Dance. If Rally Spectrum was more useful than a dance, you simply end the unit's turn and get +3 all stats to nuke someone to oblivion (assuming -blade or very barely missed KO). If dance was better then you just dance.

Yes, the situations where it's nearly as good as dance and rally spectrum would basically never happen (because you'd need to be hitting 2 things with very different bulks---since the pre-dance combat is significantly worse than post-dance combat), but it's not like the option isn't there. The skill combo's floor and ceiling is absurdly high, because, at worst, you're getting the better of a dance or a rally spectrum, at best, you're getting a dance and a rally spectrum.

It basically turns Azura into the better of Eirika or Azura in any given turn.

Edit: It's basically doing the thing that CC Vantage Reinhardt does, fufilling two different roles at once. -Blade Reinhardt acts as a classic -blade Nuker on player phase, but CC Vantage means that he's an enemy phase monster on enemy phase. Not quite that absurd, of course, because Reinhardt can kill one unit and then do a full enemy phase reasonably consistently, whereas Azura would only rarely get to be Eirika and Azura at once. But it's the same idea---anything that can do two roles is significantly better than something that can only do one thing. 'Charms' tend to be very overpriced mana-wise in magic because of that---each individual effect tends to be weak, but you get to pick from three effects.

Except CC Rein did not downgrade one or the other. As a Blade he's one of the best nuker, and as a CC Vantage he's pretty much the best in the game

 

For this Dance, assuming you run her as primary buffer(that is she's your only buffer for A and S) you really only get her full value when you use Dancer as a pseudo reposition, or as a pseudo rally.

I still think its bad, but on Azura Prf its ok because the precedence was literal nothing. For the other, the precedence was a more consistent match up when i need them to win their advantageous match up(SB Azura Vanilla ensures i can kill Ryoma in one go when i absolutely need it). or a potential mobility skill

 

Like in your own rating scale, if Reinhardt is A on offense and A on vantage, this skill was merely B in term of stats boosting(where Rally is A, and Goad is B+) which drops into C the moment double kill + safety net dancing situation happened, which is almost everytime

 

Nevermind that one of those B skill is one that increase ATK, which considering how splashable Hone ATK are, make it ridiculously bad imo

[Vaximillian]

9 minutes ago, Zeo said:

So who said they were going to save their orbs again?

I did, and I do.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

5 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

I did, and I do.

But your  you are a savage cat so you don't count!

Edited September 28, 2017 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[DehNutCase]

58 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Except CC Rein did not downgrade one or the other. As a Blade he's one of the best nuker, and as a CC Vantage he's pretty much the best in the game

 

For this Dance, assuming you run her as primary buffer(that is she's your only buffer for A and S) you really only get her full value when you use Dancer as a pseudo reposition, or as a pseudo rally.

I still think its bad, but on Azura Prf its ok because the precedence was literal nothing. For the other, the precedence was a more consistent match up when i need them to win their advantageous match up(SB Azura Vanilla ensures i can kill Ryoma in one go when i absolutely need it). or a potential mobility skill

 

Like in your own rating scale, if Reinhardt is A on offense and A on vantage, this skill was merely B in term of stats boosting(where Rally is A, and Goad is B+) which drops into C the moment double kill + safety net dancing situation happened, which is almost everytime

 

Nevermind that one of those B skill is one that increase ATK, which considering how splashable Hone ATK are, make it ridiculously bad imo

CC Rein loses his A-slot, that's 6 to 10 relevant points in stats, and non-trivial in terms of matchups, as well as his B-slot, where breakers tend to go. CC Rein pays a lot in terms of team comp, skill-slots, and investment required in order to do what he does.

By your standards, CC Rein would be trash because he doesn't have a -blade tome that has Close Counter and Vantage by default, because that's the kind of thing you're comparing Axe-Azura to: A non-existent unit that can both dance and rally spectrum at once. Yes, it's true that Reinhardt doesn't actually lose any of his offenses in a given arena fight when he's blasting someone before an enemy phase, but the damage was done before that, in the skill and team selection before the arena fight started.

 

Azura's floor, floor, that is, the worst possible she could be, is the better of a Rally Spectrum user or a Dancer. If the dance effect is worse than Rally Spectrum, she's as good as a Rally Spectrum user, if the Rally Spectrum effect is worse than her dance, she's as good as a dancer. If you're forced into a situation where the fact that she can't be Azura and Eirika at once even though she can be Azura or Eirika at any given time, that's just a player mistake on team-building or decision-making.

Choice isn't bad, players are.

(You're acting as if Azura would be worse than a dancer or a Rally Spectrum user, because that's literally the only way I can conceive of Azura being rated as 'okay' or 'passable' or 'subpar,')

 

You don't need to hit a unit's fucking ceiling for a unit to be good---that's like saying a worthless 1hp/1atk/1spd/1def/1res unit is the best in the game because, after giving it reposition, it's being used to it's maximum potential since all it can do is AI manipulation with its low bulk and using assist skills to give some fraction of a unit-turn to other people. When a unit's floor is better than other unit's ceilings, that unit is fucking good. Dance is the best assist skill in the game, and Azura has access to the best dance. Rally Spectrum is literally better than every other Rally in the game, and Azura has a skill that's strictly better.

 

You're going: Oh, this Azura's assist is only A/B+ in terms of Dance/Buff and ignoring the fact that literally everything else has a rating of A/F or F/B at best. (While C-slot skills are, in fact, buffs, and Hones/Forts are generally better than Rallies even if they had similar numbers, much less the class buff's increased ones, they're also not assist / B-slot skills.)

 

Regarding the B-slot dance skills...

You do realize they're B-SLOT SKILLS? Skill-slots is a fucking precious resource in this game, and any skill that breaks a skill-slot category deserves to be looked at carefully. They either break the assist-slot or the C-slot, by replacing a Rally-X or a Hone/Fort-X. This is like giving Reinhardt a B-slot DB-3.

There's a reason Reinhardt can't just stack 3 copies of DB 3 in his A-slot, B-slot, and C-slot.

What do you think Reinhardt wants: A Lance-breaker in his B-slot or another bloody +6 to attack?

What do you think Reinhardt wants: A Hone Cavalry in his C-slot or yet another bloody +6 to attack?

 

Conversely... What do you think Eirika wants? A Brave effect on her sword or a Hone Atk 2?

What do you think Eirika wants? A bloody pivot in her assist or reposition/Rally Whatever?

What do you think Eirika wants? A Hone Speed in her C-slot or a bloody Savage Blow?

Eirika's one of the best buff-bots in the game because she BREAKS SKILL SLOT REQUIREMENTS, and what, exactly, DO YOU THINK THESE B-SLOT SKILLS DO?

Edited September 28, 2017 by DehNutCase

[XRay]

I can finally use a Dancer/Singer in every Arena Assault battle! I do not think I will merge any of them to +10, but I will try to get a few extra copies each.

[Quintessence]

Whoa this banner was unexpected. Azura is definitely my most wanted unit, but Shigure is so good that you'll never worry again about running an infantry dancer on your flier team. I'll literally snipe every orb except for reds and see what St. Elimine has for me.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

17 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

 

I agree with most of this after reviewing it but i still don't see one about your point for the slot compression. Using your example,Eirika compress Hone ATK2 in her weapon, so she is freed to run other C slot, and this new B skill had a conditions attached to it that didn't make it exactly hone. Comparing 3 kind of conversion here: Eirika conversion involves gimping her combat to buff others and is activated by standing next to each other. Cymbeline is used by attacking. This one is the whole situation with dance as mobility extender, or turning it into a pseudo rally. The way i see it Eirika's compression is clearly better than the other 2

Granted all my arguments got shot on the foot by the floor argument and B slot on a dancer is pretty overrated to begin with

[mampfoid]

26 minutes ago, XRay said:

I can finally use a Dancer/Singer in every Arena Assault battle! I do not think I will merge any of them to +10, but I will try to get a few extra copies each.

A non-merged dancer in your starting team would ruin your score though ... 

[XRay]

Just now, mampfoid said:

A non-merged dancer in your starting team would ruin your score though ... 

I got a Azura+7, so I think I will be fine.

[Quintessence]

Wait. I thought Shigure was a flier

0/10

Green hunt!

[Ice Dragon]

45 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I agree with most of this after reviewing it but i still don't see one about your point for the slot compression.

The argument for slot compression is basically that many units don't want an A, B, and C passive. They would rather trade one or more of their skill slots for a skill slot of a different type or get additional skill slots.

What Sieglinde, Siegmund, Urdhr, Fire Dance, Wind Dance, and Geyser Dance do is just that. Sieglinde (Hone Atk 2), Siegmund (Hone Atk 2), and Urdhr (Rally Atk/Spd + Rally Def/Res) are free additional skill slots, and Fire Dance (Rally Atk), Wind Dance (Rally Spd), and Geyser Dance (Rally Def + Rally Res) effectively convert a dancer's B skill slot into a second assist skill slot.

[Korath88]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The argument for slot compression is basically that many units don't want an A, B, and C passive. They would rather trade one or more of their skill slots for a skill slot of a different type or get additional skill slots.

What Sieglinde, Siegmund, Urdhr, Fire Dance, Wind Dance, and Geyser Dance do is just that. Sieglinde (Hone Atk 2), Siegmund (Hone Atk 2), and Urdhr (Rally Atk/Spd + Rally Def/Res) are free additional skill slots, and Fire Dance (Rally Atk), Wind Dance (Rally Spd), and Geyser Dance (Rally Def + Rally Res) effectively convert a dancer's B skill slot into a second assist skill slot.

Wouldn't a dancer rather run wings or escape route though? I suppose it mostly depends on team comp.

[Vaximillian]

20 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Urdhr

I just realised we have another Rauðrblade on our hands. Prepare to see Urors everywhere!