Arcanite Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 23 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Since Marth will get my next 20,000 feathers though, male Robin's gonna wait a bit longer... I guess you need a sword user that badly huh? Too bad Robin is getting the boot for it, although I'm not too sure this is a good idea heh But if Amphy recommended it, I guess it's okay. I'm too busy to read through all those past posts :P How much feathers ya got so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Yeah, I don't have a good counter for Fae or female Corrin. I see mostly Tikis though, which male Robin can handle well already, but yeah. Marth would help against Fae a lot since she's a dragon and green. EDIT: Takumi isn't at the top anymore, what? It's a good thing I can definitely counter three of those otherwise though. Male Robin smashes Ryoma and Frederick and his hammer make the armors no threat. He's especially a great counter to Effie since she's blue. Nah Takumi's fallen waaay from grace now that the 3 -raven tomes can be inherited to basically any mage. Triangle Adept and a -raven tome completely trivialize Takumi. Not to mention skill inheritance has boosted multiple units up to where they can now OHKO Takumi when they couldn't before. Vantage and Bowbreaker being inheritable further make Takumi easier to deal with using ranged units, as well as Iote's Shield making it so fliers no longer fear him as much either. EDIT: That was all why Takumi is no longer as feared as he used to be. Adding on to that, the reason he's no longer even considered the best archer anymore is because of how much Setsuna benefits from Skill Inheritance. Setsuna was always an example of a unit that had incredible stats (one of the highest speeds in the entire game) but mediocre weapons and skills. However, if you manage to get a Brave Bow+, Life and Death, Desperation set on her, Setsuna will be able to hit almost every single unit in the game 4 times before they even get a chance to counterattack (which they won't, if you're hitting them 4 times at once). The reason this works on Setsuna and no other archer is because she's the only archer with a good enough speed to be able to wield a Brave Bow and still double almost the entire metagame (with help from Life and Death). Since doubling with a Brave Bow is 4 hits instead of 2 and because Desperation allows you to get in both of your hits (so all 4, with a Brave weapon) before enemy counterattack, Setsuna's taken over Takumi's place as the most dangerous archer. Edited March 31, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Anacybele said: EDIT: Takumi isn't at the top anymore, what? It's a good thing I can definitely counter three of those otherwise though. Male Robin smashes Ryoma and Frederick and his hammer make the armors no threat. He's especially a great counter to Effie since she's blue. Takumi is still a top tier hero in a metagame that does NOT factor in skill inheritance. Meanwhile, Setsuna and Kagero are considered dominating colorless units in a metagame that does include skill inheritance. Kagero has the highest Atk cap out of any dagger user in the game, therefore making her the most effective at using the Poison Dagger+ (since a lot of units fear it). Setsuna is the fastest archer (37 neutral; 40 if +Spd) in the entire game and basically has perfect Daggerbreaker (it's not HP dependent) thanks to her Assassin Bow+ which she gets naturally. If Setsuna inherits Brave Bow and runs that instead of Assassin Bow, she'd still have 32/35 Spd, which is still very fast for a Brave weapon user. And hell, Setsuna even learns Bowbreaker naturally! Colorless units also have the advantage of learning any weaponbreaker skill in the game, including R/B/G Tomebreaker for those -raven tomes. Edited March 31, 2017 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said: Nah Takumi's fallen waaay from grace now that the 3 -raven tomes can be inherited to basically any mage. Triangle Adept and a -raven tome completely trivialize Takumi. Not to mention skill inheritance has boosted multiple units up to where they can now OHKO Takumi when they couldn't before. Vantage and Bowbreaker being inheritable further make Takumi easier to deal with using ranged units, as well as Iote's Shield. Oh yeah, good points... It's too bad I don't have anyone with Bowbreaker or Vantage... My male Robin can't actually one-round Takumis yet, only most reds. 10 minutes ago, Arcanite said: I guess you need a sword user that badly huh? Too bad Robin is getting the boot for it, although I'm not too sure this is a good idea heh But if Amphy recommended it, I guess it's okay. I'm too busy to read through all those past posts :P How much feathers ya got so far? Yeah, right now I have virtually no way to beat units like Fae, Julia, or Nino. And I run into them fairly frequently. Palla can beat them well, but having her sitting around and unable to do much damage to anyone but green units isn't helpful. Marth self-heals and counters the three I mentioned better since he's red and they're green, with one being a dragon, and he doesn't take a damage penalty if he's targeted by a blue. He's more likely to kill a low health one than Palla is. I have 16,546 feathers. Edited March 31, 2017 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Oh yeah, good points... It's too bad I don't have anyone with Bowbreaker or Vantage... My male Robin can't actually one-round Takumis yet, only most reds. Yeah, right now I have virtually no way to beat units like Fae, Julia, or Nino. And I run into them fairly frequently. Palla can beat them well, but having her sitting around and unable to do much damage to anyone but green units isn't helpful. Marth self-heals and counters the three I mentioned better since he's red and they're green, with one being a dragon, and he doesn't take a damage penalty if he's targeted by a blue. He's more likely to kill a low health one than Palla is. I have 16,546 feathers. I hate to see you kick Palla to the curb I really want her to be useful for you but Marth is better than her in most cases aside from lacking New Moon or whatever her move is called, and being landlocked. Fred/Marth/M!Robin/[Other, probably an extra Blue or a Healer/Dancer] would be a strong team for you. FWIW, What's your M!Robin's stats? If he comes close to one hit or one-round KO'ing Takumis, it might be worth getting a Hone Attack or Rally Attack (Sharena's the got the latter, for free) on board, just to push M!Robin from being 2 Dmg short to a smooth one-hit KO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 25 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said: The wiki has recently published the tier list that factors in skill inheritance. Looks like Ryoma, Effie, Nowi, and Hector are currently the meta-defining heroes. Inheritance Tier List man I would like to see a bit more annotation on some of the changes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Elieson said: I hate to see you kick Palla to the curb I really want her to be useful for you but Marth is better than her in most cases aside from lacking New Moon or whatever her move is called, and being landlocked. Fred/Marth/M!Robin/[Other, probably an extra Blue or a Healer/Dancer] would be a strong team for you. FWIW, What's your M!Robin's stats? If he comes close to one hit or one-round KO'ing Takumis, it might be worth getting a Hone Attack or Rally Attack (Sharena's the got the latter, for free) on board, just to push M!Robin from being 2 Dmg short to a smooth one-hit KO. Palla's got Moonbow. :P But yeah, I agree. Let's see... HP: 34 Attack: 34 Speed: 27 Defense: 26 Res: 23 Yep, that's it. He's +res, -HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Oh yeah, good points... It's too bad I don't have anyone with Bowbreaker or Vantage... My male Robin can't actually one-round Takumis yet, only most reds. Yeah, right now I have virtually no way to beat units like Fae, Julia, or Nino. And I run into them fairly frequently. Palla can beat them well, but having her sitting around and unable to do much damage to anyone but green units isn't helpful. Marth self-heals and counters the three I mentioned better since he's red and they're green, with one being a dragon, and he doesn't take a damage penalty if he's targeted by a blue. He's more likely to kill a low health one than Palla is. I have 16,546 feathers. Nino is really nasty, but I've found that Marth is great at dealing with her. He handles Fae and Julia even better, but I've started encountering some teams really built to optimize Nino that make it hard to get to her. Did you mention having your own Marth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Othin said: Nino is really nasty, but I've found that Marth is great at dealing with her. He handles Fae and Julia even better, but I've started encountering some teams really built to optimize Nino that make it hard to get to her. Did you mention having your own Marth? Of course I did...that's why I've been talking about upgrading him to 5 star. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Palla's got Moonbow. :P But yeah, I agree. Let's see... HP: 34 Attack: 34 Speed: 27 Defense: 26 Res: 23 Yep, that's it. He's +res, -HP. Robin needs 49 attack to OHKO a neutral level 40 5* Takumi (or only 42 attack if you have Triangle Adept 3), so that won't be possible unless you promote him. Once you promote him though, your Robin should have 40 attack at 5* level 40 with Blarraven+, so you'll need a buff to OHKO neutral Takumi with TA (but you'll be able to OHKO -HP or -Res Takumis at least). Unfortunately, neutral Robin can't OHKO Takumi without Triangle Adept, but you could always sacrifice your Roy to get TA (there's no real reason to have both Marth and Roy on your team). Edited March 31, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said: Robin needs 49 attack to OHKO a neutral level 40 5* Takumi (or only 42 attack if you have Triangle Adept 3), so that won't be possible unless you promote him. Once you promote him though, your Robin should have 40 attack at 5* level 40 with Blarraven+, so you'll need a buff to OHKO neutral Takumi (but you'll be able to OHKO -HP or -Res Takumis at least). Really? Male Robin will get THAT much of an attack boost going to 5 star? That's crazy. That 34 attack includes his weapon, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Just now, Anacybele said: Really? Male Robin will get THAT much of an attack boost going to 5 star? That's crazy. That 34 attack includes his weapon, you know. I know. And the attack boost at 5* includes the fact that he gets a better weapon at 5*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Just now, MaskedAmpharos said: I know. And the attack boost at 5* includes the fact that he gets a better weapon at 5*. I know that, but it still seems like a pretty huge boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Anacybele said: Of course I did...that's why I've been talking about upgrading him to 5 star. :P That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure since I didn't find any posts saying so to check. It does sound like a good idea based on all that. 1 minute ago, Anacybele said: Really? Male Robin will get THAT much of an attack boost going to 5 star? That's crazy. That 34 attack includes his weapon, you know. 5* weapons typically have about 4 more Mt than their predecessors, so it makes sense for that plus a bit of of boost to base stats to add up to a +6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Just now, Anacybele said: I know that, but it still seems like a pretty huge boost. Neutral male Robin has 27 attack at 4* level 40 + 7 attack from Blarraven. Neutral male Robin has 29 attack at 5* level 40 + 11 attack from Blarraven+. It's not actually a huge difference if you look at base stats, but the weapon upgrade makes a substantial difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I think I recall Julia straight up dying to a Nino once... JULIA, the impenetrable mage wall, got grounded to bits by Gronnblade. Talk about scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Really? Male Robin will get THAT much of an attack boost going to 5 star? That's crazy. That 34 attack includes his weapon, you know. Upgrading from 4-stars to 5-stars gives a boost of 1 or 2 points to all stats (at level 40) on top of the new weapon, which is usually 3-5 points. Edited March 31, 2017 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Anacybele said: I know that, but it still seems like a pretty huge boost. 3 minutes ago, Othin said: That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure since I didn't find any posts saying so to check. It does sound like a good idea based on all that. 5* weapons typically have about 4 more Mt than their predecessors, so it makes sense for that plus a bit of of boost to base stats to add up to a +6. What he said; Better ATK + Better Weapon make a mondo difference for everybody except Brave Weapon users i guess, who have weak weapons anyway and get like STEEL LANCE POWER as their mightiest weapon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: I think I recall Julia straight up dying to a Nino once... JULIA, the impenetrable mage wall, got grounded to bits by Gronnblade. Talk about scary. I don't think I'm more terrified of anything in this game more than a blade tome tbh. Especially when the opponents have the buffs to back them up (thankfully the AI is usually not smart enough to optimize buffs for the mage but still). EDIT: There was a really funny team I ran into last season that had Gronnblade Nino, Raourblade Tharja, and Blarblade Robin of all things all on the same team with different Hone/Fortify buffs in their C-slot. Probably wasn't the most optimal team in the world, but it was enough to scare me. Edited March 31, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immatx Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: I think I recall Julia straight up dying to a Nino once... JULIA, the impenetrable mage wall, got grounded to bits by Gronnblade. Talk about scary. If the Julia was -res then after getting doubled by Nino I wouldn't be too surprised if she dies. Mine is -res and sometimes she can be killed by Ninos, which really sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 @SatsumaFSoysoy I just did some calcs, and I find it funny that neutral Julia lives a single attack from a +Atk Nino with +4 on all 4 stats with exactly 1 HP (this doesn't account for Nino having Fury or Life and Death or Death Blow or something in which case Julia is screwed). Of course, she's screwed either way bc Nino would double her, but I find it amusing she'd barely live the first hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, immatx said: If the Julia was -res then after getting doubled by Nino I wouldn't be too surprised if she dies. Mine is -res and sometimes she can be killed by Ninos, which really sucks. Nino, the cinnamon roll of death. She looks sweet at first. But as soon as you turn your back, Spoiler Enter: Gronnblade to the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, MaskedAmpharos said: I don't think I'm more terrified of anything in this game more than a blade tome tbh. Especially when the opponents have the buffs to back them up (thankfully the AI is usually not smart enough to optimize buffs for the mage but still). Thankfully, yeah. I also learnt the other day that a Wings of Mercy Azura will prioritize attacking over Dancing, which kinda ruins my plans for double Dancer Reinhardt defense team... I think I'll have to use 1-range units instead. Just now, immatx said: If the Julia was -res then after getting doubled by Nino I wouldn't be too surprised if she dies. Mine is -res and sometimes she can be killed by Ninos, which really sucks. Mine is +Atk -HP iirc. She got shredded :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Thankfully, yeah. I also learnt the other day that a Wings of Mercy Azura will prioritize attacking over Dancing, which kinda ruins my plans for double Dancer Reinhardt defense team... I think I'll have to use 1-range units instead. 7 minutes ago, immatx said: If you don't give the dancers a weapon, they can't attack instead of dance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I see now, I see. :P The attack boost from a 5 star upgrade and the stronger weapon is pretty cool. -HP will still put a bit of a hit on defenses, so that's probably why Nino KO'd that Julia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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