Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[ILikeKirbys]

@Humbug I'm just going by looking at Chrom's stats here, but I have a few suggestions:

1) Keep the Carrot Axe. The healing will be good on Bunny Chrom, since he has high DEF already.

1.5) If you decide to try a different weapon, perhaps go with the Killer Axe? It would make Chrom's skills go off faster, which is nice, and I don't think it's too much of a drop in power from the Carrot Axe.

2) I would say keep Bunny Chrom's Shove, it can occasionally be useful and other Command Skills aren't really needed here (unless you have an armor on your team, then Reposition might be worth it).

3) For a Special Skill, I would recommend Sol, like the original Chrom has, or Noontime, for a slightly faster charge time; both of these heal Chrom, which seems useful to me since he looks like his defenses are decent. Alternatively, you could go for Aether, if you have a spare Chrom/Lucina you're willing to part with; the charge time is longer, but it's considerably stronger than Sol/Noontime and can possibly help him kill stuff he normally wouldn't.

4) For the A Slot, Attack Def +2 sounds good, so I wouldn't sacrifice your only Hinata to give Bunny Chrom Fury 3, but if you happen to pull another Hinata, I would give Chrom Fury 3 because he can heal off most of the damage when he attacks (I think: Does Fury damage happen before or after the healing?). You could go for Death Blow if you want Bunny Chrom to work primarily on Player Phase, since more self-damage-free damage is more self-damage-free damage, but Darting Blow on Bunny Chrom is something I wouldn't recommend. I don't think he has the Speed for it to be especially beneficial.

5) For the B Slot, I recommend either Lancebreaker, to smash most lancers, or Renewal, to make Bunny Chrom last longer.

6) For the C Slot, Axperience is good if you're training someone up, but otherwise go with a Hone/Fortify or a Threaten, depending on what your team needs more.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how Bunny Chrom should work, but he looks like he could tank, so my suggestions are bent toward making him a physical tank with considerable power. To this end, Carrot Axe/Sol or Noontime or Aether/Renewal should sustain Bunny Chrom for a while given his decent defenses (though you might want to keep him away from mages, since his 17/20/23 RES doesn't seem that good to me, even if you go Fury 3 and boost it to 20/23/26), while Attack Def +2/Fury/Death Blow make him stronger (and slightly tankier, if going Attack Def +2).

Hope that helps! And isn't too long for you, haha.

@Korath88 Great write-up! Thanks, mate! However, I do have a couple of thoughts and a semi-related question:

1) I would argue for Wings of Mercy, if only for teams that lack Reciprocal Aid. I wouldn't want Ninian getting attacked, so giving her WoM allows you to teleport her to the front lines as needed without requiring her to be in serious danger due to being at low HP. Of course, if your team has Reciprocal Aid, I stand by your keeping Escape Route, but it's just a thought.

2) I wouldn't go Triangle Adept. Yes, making Falchions less of a problem is nice, but you can do that by bringing another good Blue unit to deal with those, so I would recommend a Defiant skill (if you're running Reciprocal Aid + Escape Route, then Ninian should always be in Defiant range, so it's a free +7 to one stat, which is nice I think) or HP +5 (to make Ninian more capable of surviving attacks generally, and to give her I think 47 or 50 HP, which is a good amount I think).

And now, a question:

I just re-checked this morning, and I was mistaken about my Ninian. She's +ATK/-HP, not +HP/-ATK like I thought. So now I want to build her a bit more offensively, since she has 37 ATK with Dark Breath equipped (and if I get her DB+, I think that goes up to 41), which is good on a support unit I think. Anyone got any ideas? I'm thinking of putting Defiant ATK on her, but beyond that I'm not too certain of what I should do here.

[pianime94]

If you want Defiant Atk on Ninian, then it'd probably be more effective if you have Desperation or Breaker sills. Though for Desperation she needs to be +Spd for it to work effectively. Defiant Spd could act as if she had +Spd (which lets her kills most Falchion users except neutral Spd Lucina), but still, Ninian on the offensive is quite risky to play with, imo.

Goad and Hone Dragon when IS.

Edited April 2, 2017 by pianime94

[BANRYU]

Alllllllrighty. With regards to Oboro, here are a few of the builds I'm gonna look into calc'ing and testing...

• Killer + Bonfire + Defiant Def + Brash Assault + Threaten Atk (Killer + active Brash lets Bonfire activate in 1 round of combat that she survives + Bf is boosted by DefDef)
• Silver + Sol + Defiant Atk + Quick Riposte + Threaten Def (attempting to utilize Sol to remain above QuickRip HP threshold, everything else for max Atk; surviving one round of combat where she's doubled and can counter readies Sol next turn or, with Killer, in the first round; DefAtk-boosted Sol is... well... haha)
• something more generic like Atk/Def+2 + QuickRip / breakers
• maybe Fury + Renewal + Threaten Atk or something...? seems like best attempt to tank mages (hits 30 Res with boon + Fury) as well as being decent in general...?

As a random side note... Looking at the stats of all the lance infantry units to compare to Oboro, I'm realizing Donnel and Sharena actually have very similar stats...?? Like... I'm not quite sure what to make of that, I mean Sharena is obviously better by default due to having a Prf weapon but that's kinda interesting... like, maybe Donnel COULD be pretty good....??

[Birdy]

5 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

As a random side note... Looking at the stats of all the lance infantry units to compare to Oboro, I'm realizing Donnel and Sharena actually have very similar stats...?? Like... I'm not quite sure what to make of that, I mean Sharena is obviously better by default due to having a Prf weapon but that's kinda interesting... like, maybe Donnel COULD be pretty good....??

He could be, he supposedly has the highest stat total out of all infantry units (-armors -dragons) with 162. He just doesn't stand out. He has good attack and defence, and decent everything else. But Ephraim and to some extent Shareena just outclass him slightly because of their weapons. 

[BANRYU]

Just now, Birdy said:

He could be, he supposedly has the highest stat total out of all infantry units (-armors -dragons) with 162. He just doesn't stand out. He has good attack and defence, and decent everything else. But Ephraim and to some extent Shareena just outclass him slightly because of their weapons. 

Yeah, that's the same trouble I'm finding with Oboro VS Ephraim (whose stats are also quite similar) ; it's tough for units without a legendary weap to compete with those that do. 

[MrSmokestack]

I wrote up an analysis on Niles, but having looked at Setsuna's bases, he seems pretty outclassed. Is there anything significant he holds over her besides irrelevant resistance?

[Arcanite]

9 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I wrote up an analysis on Niles, but having looked at Setsuna's bases, he seems pretty outclassed. Is there anything significant he holds over her besides irrelevant resistance?

Niles has iceberg at base.

Other than that, Niles literally sucks everything in the book,

Eggs, Hard boiled eggs, poached eggs, scrambled eggs, over easy, balls, basketballs, footballs, volleyballs, baseballs, toes everything!

[Birdy]

23 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I wrote up an analysis on Niles, but having looked at Setsuna's bases, he seems pretty outclassed. Is there anything significant he holds over her besides irrelevant resistance?

He's the only Killer Bow user I believe. Other than that and the resistance + Iceberg, nothing really. 

[Kaden]

1 hour ago, BANRYU said:

Alllllllrighty. With regards to Oboro, here are a few of the builds I'm gonna look into calc'ing and testing...

• Killer + Bonfire + Defiant Def + Brash Assault + Threaten Atk (Killer + active Brash lets Bonfire activate in 1 round of combat that she survives + Bf is boosted by DefDef)
• Silver + Sol + Defiant Atk + Quick Riposte + Threaten Def (attempting to utilize Sol to remain above QuickRip HP threshold, everything else for max Atk; surviving one round of combat where she's doubled and can counter readies Sol next turn or, with Killer, in the first round; DefAtk-boosted Sol is... well... haha)
• something more generic like Atk/Def+2 + QuickRip / breakers
• maybe Fury + Renewal + Threaten Atk or something...? seems like best attempt to tank mages (hits 30 Res with boon + Fury) as well as being decent in general...?

As a random side note... Looking at the stats of all the lance infantry units to compare to Oboro, I'm realizing Donnel and Sharena actually have very similar stats...?? Like... I'm not quite sure what to make of that, I mean Sharena is obviously better by default due to having a Prf weapon but that's kinda interesting... like, maybe Donnel COULD be pretty good....??

I was going to say I'm waiting for that Oboro write-up too since I don't really know what to do with her -- eclipse did help with that. A friend has one with +Spd/-Def and she's amazing from the times I've got to use her during the Voting Gauntlet. Mine's +Atk/-Res, so I don't get the luxury of watching a smug girl spear people in rapid succession.

As for Donnel, looking at his stats, his higher defense for lower speed compared to Sharena could make him a dedicated knight killer with a Heavy Lance. Sharena's probably not a good idea for that and Ephraim would rather use his raw stats with Siegmund than dropping down to 8 MT with Heavy Lance. There is a problem being that in PVP, the only available sword knight right now is Draug and he outspeeds Donnel. A +Spd Draug would double neutral speed Donnel instead not to mention that Draug's defense, neutral or boon, is the highest in the game, so that Heavy Lance will be vital. And Zephiel's coming later, right? I think he's supposed to have Wary Fighter, so there's that too...

Edited April 2, 2017 by Kaden

[BANRYU]

1 hour ago, Kaden said:

I was going to say I'm waiting for that Oboro write-up too since I don't really know what to do with her -- eclipse did help with that. A friend has one with +Spd/-Def and she's amazing from the times I've got to use her during the Voting Gauntlet. Mine's +Atk/-Res, so I don't get the luxury of watching a smug girl spear people in rapid succession.

As for Donnel, looking at his stats, his higher defense for lower speed compared to Sharena could make him a dedicated knight killer with a Heavy Lance. Sharena's probably not a good idea for that and Ephraim would rather use his raw stats with Siegmund than dropping down to 8 MT with Heavy Lance. There is a problem being that in PVP, the only available sword knight right now is Draug and he outspeeds Donnel. A +Spd Draug would double neutral speed Donnel instead not to mention that Draug's defense, neutral or boon, is the highest in the game, so that Heavy Lance will be vital. And Zephiel's coming later, right? I think he's supposed to have Wary Fighter, so there's that too...

TBQH I actually think yours is the better Oboro of the two; I'd rather sacrifice one of her lesser stats like Speed or Res than her Defense (her main appeal factor IMO), but Oboro with +Spd actually hits a decent speed tier (29 IIRC) that could be decent with Defiant Speed or Darting Blow or something maybe... 

Apart from the ideas that I had, @mcsilas came up with a set here that looks fairly decent... Brave Lance + Death Blow + Bonfire sounds fairly promising for an offensive Oboro like yours; I somewhat question if there are others that could do this better (dedicated offensive nukers; Cordelia and Donnel both have Brave already and higher attack to begin with), although unlike Ephraim and his obligatory prf weap Oboro can afford to run stuff like Brave/Killer so she's somewhat more versatile in her role in that regard...

I guess the good thing about Oboro running Brave is that she's already slow and tanky, meaning she can take hits decently and already gets doubled a lot so more slow doesn't matter much... Meanwhile Cordelia has good speed that she takes a hit to and worse defenses, so I feel like she wants a different weapon... but anyway

TBH the set that I like most for her right now is Killer Lance + Bonfire + Defiant Defense + Brash Assault. Keep her away from mages ofc, but it's fairly distinctive and I feel like she can take advantage of the latter two skills better than most. Killer + Bonfire also highlights her high Def that she has over other high-tier lance users, second only to Gwendolyn and tied with Subaki and Spring!Xander-- and DefDef only helps Bonf's output even more bwahaha. 

I'll run some calcs on this one as the main one, and I feel like she can run variable sets but not sure what else could work. I'll test things

Edited April 2, 2017 by BANRYU

[ILikeKirbys]

@MrSmokestack I don't know much about Niles, to be honest, but you could try this...
1) For ideal boon/bane, I'm thinking +ATK (his ATK is low, and we're keeping Killer Bow, so he really wants this), +SPD (37 is a good amount of SPD, yeah?) or +RES (37 RES means you get 18 extra damage off every Iceberg if we're keeping that, which isn't much over neutral-RES Niles's 17 damage, but the extra 3 RES could help him tank against mages)/-DEF or RES (his DEF is already crap, so losing a few extra points probably wouldn't hurt too terribly much, but if it would, his RES is probably good enough to take a minor hit, and 15 extra damage on each Iceberg is still pretty solid I think).
2) For the weapon, just keep Killer Bow+ (I kinda based the whole set around quick Special skill procs, so he needs this).
3) For the Special Skill (skipping Command Skill because that really depends on what your team requires), you could go Iceberg (starts with this, and with his high RES, it could give him the boost he needs, though you shouldn't run -RES with this), or Sacred Cowl (has a 1-action cooldown with Killer Bow, would make Niles even better as a mage killer) / Killer Bow (already has this, makes him tankier vs 2-rangers that Niles can fight by making sure he can survive at least one hit from them) or Aegis (if you're okay with not always having it when Niles gets counterattacked since it's a 2-charge, this could be a better option vs Archers and Daggers).
4) For the A Slot, you could keep Warding Blow (Only if you're running Iceberg, to power up Iceberg), or try Death Blow (Niles needs all the help he can get with his ATK, and this definitely helps with that) or Swift Sparrow (if you have a Bunny Lucina to burn, the +4 to SPD on top of ATK could help him double faster foes while dealing a bit more damage).
5) For the B Slot, my best ideas at the moment are Vantage (primarily for Sacred Cowl, so he can always proc it when attacked at 2-range) or Desperation (to make Niles slightly better on offense when not at full HP, might occasionally save him from being attacked, and could maybe make Aegis workable in the same manner that I have Sacred Cowl here for, if only at less-than-full HP).
6) For the C Slot, best I can think of is Threaten SPD/DEF (SPD lets Niles and his allies double faster foes, DEF lets Niles and physical-attacking allies deal a bit more damage).

I'm thinking you could run Niles as a RES-tank with Speed, so he won't get killed by doubles against stronger mages. His ATK could be annoying, but you're primarily gonna send him against mages so it won't matter as much. As such, I recommend running Sacred Cowl/Aegis over Iceberg, since only a few mages (I think Henry/both Robins/Merric are the primary causes for concern, possibly Reinhardt since mine has decent DEF, and maybe Leo, I dunno about him tho) have the DEF to really make Niles's low ATK an issue, and so SC/Aegis lets Niles survive longer vs 2-rangers (though some of the physical ones might one-round him anyway if you took -DEF, which is why I'm on the fence about -DEF vs -RES). However, if you find yourself missing the extra damage (or just going up against a lot of Robins), then perhaps Iceberg is the better option. I don't really know, I sent the only Niles I ever pulled home before Inherit Skill was announced.
I'm not completely set on the B/C Slot skills, since I'm not entirely sure which of those Niles really wants. Anyone got any ideas?
This Niles really likes any buff except DEF, since RES buffs Iceberg damage if you have that and makes Niles even tankier against magic even if you don't, ATK makes Niles stronger which you want, and SPD makes Niles faster which you want.

Overall, I'm sure someone else pulls this set off better than Niles, but this is how I think Niles would be most useful. Of course, I don't have a Niles at all, so I don't really know what I'm talking about (as usual), but still...

Edited April 2, 2017 by ILikeKirbys

[BANRYU]

I think Niles IS the best of the lot among archers as far as tanking magic goes, but unfortunately, the game kind of works against him because of the existence of the Raven tomes, and the fact that he's an archer-- a grey unit. I know from calcs that Niles is one of the few greys who can live against Triangle Adept Robin and such, but with TA strengthening Robin's defenses, it's not like Niles is going to be able to do much in return-- the best he does over other archers is not dying immediately to Robin, but Rob can still kill him before he can do much back-- +Atk Niles can only do 14 damage to -Def Robin, which isn't even a 2HKO, while Robin requires approximately the same amount of attacks to KO Niles (best case scenario, it's a Robin-Takumi matchup that requires an extra turn to resolve). In matchups where the two lack the respective mentioned bane/boon, the scales are significantly more tipped in Robin's favor.

Barring bulkier Raven tome users, Niles definitely makes a pretty good magekiller, but the issue of Raven tomes' existence + the fact that they actually have pretty good utility and are easy to fit onto teams is always gonna be a problem for him. Fortunately, Robin is the only default Raven-user with the stats to run this utility (Henry lacks offensive presence and Cecilia can't take a hit), but unfortunately he's also fairly widespread at the moment. 

Luckily, the niche of being an archer (able to kill most fliers without having to worry about WTA matchups) on top of a mage killer is something no one else can boast, since bows + Excalibur are the only effective weapons against fliers and Merric's Res is not all that great, so if a team setup needs specific fliers and mages dealt with, Niles is good for role compression. 

Also I think Darting Blow is probably another good A-skill for Niles, since it lets him double a lot of speedy fliers (only failing to do so against Minerva and Caeda with it as opposed to being unable to double and thus kill Subaki, Palla, and Catria without it), and only Beruka is bulky enough to take a double-dose of Atk+ Niles' arrows barring Iote's Shield users (another thing he has the misfortune of working against his intended role). Being +Spd lets him beat Caeda and double (but not beat) Minerva, and not having +Atk means he fails to kill Def-neutral variations of Shanna, Subaki, and Catria. So yeah... he really needs Atk boon in order to pull his weight IMO... Atk+ Niles with Darting Blow lands more kills on def-neutral fliers than other variations like +Spd/Res with Death Blow can. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by BANRYU

[Kaden]

@BANRYU, said friend did say that had Oboro been +Spd/-Res, she would have been better since she'd keep her physical bulk while being fast enough to not get doubled by Takumi when Takumi was (and still is) a menace to everyone and a couple of other units. He's also annoyed that Oboro keeps getting ranked very low as a unit. Case in point: Spring Xander despite him pulling a -Atk/+Res one which to him I guess is, "This new unit is better than Oboro, but you got a crappy version of him."

Yeah, with Oboro's naturally high attack and high defense, a Brave Lance would be neat -- it would allow me to use one of the spare, crappy nature Donnels I have. That said, a more defensive Oboro build would probably want a Silver Lance or Killer Lance which I'm leaning towards. Defensively, her default debuff skills are good too.

Speaking of Cordelia, would she rather have another weapon than a Brave Lance? Brave Lance works with her being a glass cannon and it's part of her official art. And would Hinoka rather have a different weapon? I feel like Hinoka at times is a second-rate Cordelia since she's rarer making it more difficult to get a good nature for her and stat-wise, Hinoka is slightly bulkier for lower speed. Basically, it's like there's 2 of the same unit, but one of them is easier to get. I kind of wished Hinoka had a unique weapon like her Guard Naginata that she starts out with in Birthright even if it was basically a lance version of Roy's Sword of Seals.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Kaden

[BANRYU]

1 minute ago, Kaden said:

@BANRYU, said friend did say that had Oboro been +Spd/-Res, she would have been better since she'd keep her physical bulk while being fast enough to not get doubled by Takumi when Takumi was (and still is) a menace to everyone and a couple of other units. He's also annoyed that Oboro keeps getting ranked very low as a unit. Case in point: Spring Xander despite him pulling a -Atk/+Res one.

Yeah, with Oboro's naturally high attack and high defense, a Brave Lance would be neat -- it would allow me to use one of the spare, crappy nature Donnels I have. That said, a more defensive Oboro build would probably want a Silver Lance or Killer Lance which I'm leaning towards. Defensively, her default debuff skills are good too.

Speaking of Cordelia, would she rather have another weapon than a Brave Lance? Brave Lance works with her being glass cannon and it's part of her official art. And would Hinoka rather have a different weapon? I feel like Hinoka at times is a second-rate Cordelia since she's rarer making it more difficult to get a good nature for her and stat-wise, Hinoka is slightly bulkier for lower speed. Basically, it's like there's 2 of the same unit, but one of them is easier to get. I kind of wished Hinoka had a unique weapon like her Guard Naginata that she starts out with in Birthright even if it was basically a lance version of Roy's Sword of Seals.

Yeah, both the elder Fates princesses get kinda shafted on the front of unique weapons, it's unfortunate I agree x__x

I mean... yeah I guess Brave Lance isn't THAT bad for Cordelia since she probably wants to be more player-phase oriented anyway with her weak defenses, now that I think about it... Probably not gonna be taking hits all that great if she gets attacked during enemy phase, even if she runs like Silver or something to keep her speed from being as easily exploited... Ehh fair enough. 

[Kaden]

7 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Yeah, both the elder Fates princesses get kinda shafted on the front of unique weapons, it's unfortunate I agree x__x

I mean... yeah I guess Brave Lance isn't THAT bad for Cordelia since she probably wants to be more player-phase oriented anyway with her weak defenses, now that I think about it... Probably not gonna be taking hits all that great if she gets attacked during enemy phase, even if she runs like Silver or something to keep her speed from being as easily exploited... Ehh fair enough. 

Well, in Camilla's case, the only other Brave Axe users are Barst and Raven, both who are infantry and basically serve as differing degrees of units; Barst has higher defense and is more of a direct support unit with Knock Back, Reposition, and Spur Attack, Camilla has higher resistance and is more of an indirect support unit with Savage Blow, and Raven is an autonomous, offensive glass cannon. With Hinoka, I heard she wasn't that important in Fates' story and in Heroes, she's basically Cordelia, but with an AOE attack and has support skills instead of Cordelia's single-target special and Galeforce and self-buffing skills. It's not even something like, "Oh, Hinoka has noticeably higher defense than Cordelia who has higher resistance"; they're pretty much the same. Anyway, I digress.

Just curious, though, what could be done to Hinoka that could set her apart while not making her a better or worse version of another unit.

[ILikeKirbys]

13 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

I think Niles IS the best of the lot among archers as far as tanking magic goes, but unfortunately, the game kind of works against him because of the existence of the Raven tomes, and the fact that he's an archer-- a grey unit. I know from calcs that Niles is one of the few greys who can live against Triangle Adept Robin and such, but with TA strengthening Robin's defenses, it's not like Niles is going to be able to do much in return-- the best he does over other archers is not dying immediately to Robin, but Rob can still kill him before he can do much back-- +Atk Niles can only do 14 damage to -Def Robin, which isn't even a 2HKO, while Robin requires approximately the same amount of attacks to KO Niles (best case scenario, it's a Robin-Takumi matchup that requires an extra turn to resolve). In matchups where the two lack the respective mentioned bane/boon, the scales are significantly more tipped in Robin's favor.

Barring bulkier Raven tome users, Niles definitely makes a pretty good magekiller, but the issue of Raven tomes' existence + the fact that they actually have pretty good utility and are easy to fit onto teams is always gonna be a problem for him. Fortunately, Robin is the only default Raven-user with the stats to run this utility (Henry lacks offensive presence and Cecilia can't take a hit), but unfortunately he's also fairly widespread at the moment. 

Luckily, the niche of being an archer (able to kill most fliers without having to worry about WTA matchups) on top of a mage killer is something no one else can boast, since bows + Excalibur are the only effective weapons against fliers and Merric's Res is not all that great, so if a team setup needs specific fliers and mages dealt with, Niles is good for role compression. 

Also I think Darting Blow is probably another good A-skill for Niles, since it lets him double a lot of speedy fliers (only failing to do so against Minerva and Caeda with it as opposed to being unable to double Subaki, Palla, and Catria without it), and only Michalis and Beruka are bulky enough to take a double-dose of Niles' arrows. Being +Spd lets him beat Caeda and double (but not beat) Minerva, and not having +Atk means he fails to kill Def-neutral variations of Shanna, Subaki, and Catria. So yeah... he really needs Atk boon in order to pull his weight IMO... Atk+ Niles with Darting Blow lands more kills on def-neutral fliers than other variations like +Spd/Res with Death Blow can. 

Ah dammit, I forgot all about the Raven tomes (not sure how I did that, since I listed two of the units who get them naturally in my post, but...). That does suck for Niles, but he can deal with mages without that pretty well if they aren't holding a Raven.
And I completely forgot about fliers! Wow I'm stupid That's a good point, he can do double duty for fliers and mage-killing (but would appreciate if people would make Robin go away, pretty please?), which is probably a good niche (and with Spring Camilla compressing flier and mage into a single unit, we might as well pull out a unit who counters both of those things, yeah?). That's a sizable point in his favor, actually.

And I hadn't thought of Darting Blow, guess I figured he had enough SPD to handle mages and that was enough (again, I somehow forgot that an archer would be effective against fliers when I was writing up my last post). That would make +ATK basically necessary tho, but I'm not sure if not being +RES actually hurts him all that much defensively so it's probably all good.

Thanks for your input, mate.

9 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Speaking of Cordelia, would she rather have another weapon than a Brave Lance? Brave Lance works with her being a glass cannon and it's part of her official art. And would Hinoka rather have a different weapon? I feel like Hinoka at times is a second-rate Cordelia since she's rarer making it more difficult to get a good nature for her and stat-wise, Hinoka is slightly bulkier for lower speed. Basically, it's like there's 2 of the same unit, but one of them is easier to get. I kind of wished Hinoka had a unique weapon like her Guard Naginata that she starts out with in Birthright even if it was basically a lance version of Roy's Sword of Seals.

Cordelia is probably fine with the Brave Lance, since she's more Player-Phase-oriented and wants to auto-double everything more than she wants to have 5 extra SPD and a different effect. Plus Brave Lance auto-doubles charge up Astra/Galeforce faster, so she can get her extra damage/turn more quickly.

However, as someone who would really like to pull Hinoka at some point (but hasn't)... Hinoka probably would prefer a different weapon. I dunno if a Killer Lance or a Silver Lance would be preferred here, but one of those would most likely work better for her than the Brave Lance... Personally tho, I would give her a Killer Lance so she can have Sacred Cowl basically always up to deal with archers and mages and probably survive one round of combat from most 2-range non-Brave-weapon-users. I dunno if that would actually work, but hey, it's a thought.

[BANRYU]

NP dude. So there ya go @MrSmokestack, I would say Res isn't an irrelevant stat at all for a 2-range attacker, and the main thing he has over Setsuna is being able to bait/tank/kill non-Raven mages on top of fliers-- ergo, role compression, as I mentioned earlier. 

And yeah fortunately for Niles, Robin being so prevalent and Triangle Adept being the main thing most people running with him means that pretty much any green unit handles that particular issue for Niles, since Robin can't do jack to them. If your team already includes a green and/but has trouble with fliers and/or mages of any specific color, Niles can be used to fill in for both of those. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by BANRYU

[XeKr]

On 3/31/2017 at 6:33 PM, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

 

Nino was definitely a consideration for my team, as well, but I didn't get a chance to pull her banner and the one I got in my current batch was a 3* -Atk. No way I'm investing 22k feathers into that.

I do have an Odin and Blarblade was a consideration, but it just starts out too far behind Aura to be worth it. As with Nino, Blarblade+ is too expensive to be throwing at a -Atk Linde. Maybe a +Atk, but eh.

Anyway, thanks for your help! Taking your advice into account, I stuck with Aura and Ardent Sacrifice (might replace it later once I have spare SP), added Iceberg, then Fury 2 (gonna need to pull for HInatas to bump that to 3 ASAP, though), Desperation 3 and Fortify Res 3 (currently at 2, currently working up to 3).

I've only done the matches to claim the quest rewards, but so far she's been doing pretty well. Murders stuff so hard where M!Robin would have been in that awkward position of not doubling and needing to stall or get Drawn Back. Missing out on a few benchmarks that Fury 3 would have made, though, so there's that. If Sharena or Marth aren't busy, they can easily help her make those benchmarks, but that does mean needing to commit someone else to helping her out. On the other hand, Fury 2 gives her enough bulk versus Life and Death that she doesn't really need to fear trading with anyone other than Blue Tomebreakers (typically, anyway; I fought a M!Robin who had it and she could trade him no problem because his Atk is so low) and Brave Bows.

Late reply, but I find it’s interesting to consider. I think with Eirika, it’s possible to justify Blarblade+ even on –Atk (+Fury) since it pushes 45+3+11+3=62 att. A quick calc using https://rocketmo.github.io/feh-damage-calc/ suggests both –Atk and neutral can pull 109 wins · 1 losses · 8 draws against the neutral cast on player phase (with Desperation active, she onerounds Hector without a proc). There’s also analyses out there for Bunny Lucina, who is basically a weaker Linde, that show they beat pretty much the same things (nearly the whole cast) with Blarblade+. 

It works without Eirika but is a bit less effective. Ephraim works but is Blue like Linde and doesn’t beat Nino/Julia so there’s worse synergy. Though actually with just Rally + Hone, which anyone can use, Linde gets 105 wins · 1 losses · 12 draws even with –Atk so eh. 

In practice there’s ofc fighting on enemy phase, or B Tomebreaker to account for, or merges, or enemy Boon/Bane/Fury so it’s more complex. But I find the takeaway is at those levels of Atk, the bane doesn’t matter tootoo much. It’s true Aura also beats most of the cast, but you miss some crucial ohkos on Reds/Colorless and onerounds on Greens, especially a few common (b/c of focus) ones in higher end arena. 

Personally unlikely atm to spend the 20k feathers on non-ideal Boon/Bane either, feelsbad, not minmax, favoritism, etc. But more objectively, keeping in mind rng in pulls, -blade and buff stacking probably gives the strongest team core for the feather investment, –Atk or not.

As a side note, one advantage of Nino is that Nino + Eirika/Ephraim + (Azura/Ninian)/Olivia is a 3 person core that has nearly perfect coverage and extremely easy deathless arena streaks while leaving a slot open for a bonus character. Nino is a natural 3* or was on a banner as the only green. The Renais twins were on two banners. Ninian was the sole blue on a banner and Olivia is free. Also little to no skill inheritance needed. bst a minor issue now (but it’s rng for non-whales anyway to have a 5* bonus every week), but probably not soon with matchmaking changes.

Edited April 2, 2017 by XeKr

[MaskedAmpharos]

So after looking at next week's bonus heroes, I'm mostly likely going to be 5*ing either Michalis or Alfonse but am unsure which to go for (current Arena team is Ryoma, Julia, Effie, [bonus]) if that makes a difference. 

The set I'm currently looking into for Michalis is:

• Weapon: Hauteclere
• Assist: Reposition
• Special: Bonfire
• A-skill: Iote's Shield
• B-skill: Quick Riposte
• C-skill: Threaten Def

However, since I see virtually no archers at my Arena tier (and Julia has bowbreaker for the archers I do run into), I'm considering replacing Iote's with a different skill (maybe Fury?) that he gets more use out of. I'm also considering replacing Quick Riposte with Renewal or Wings of Mercy, but am currently still leaning towards Quick Riposte. 

I'm a bit less sure what I want to do with Alfonse, but I'm currently looking into:

• Weapon: Fólkvangr
• Assist: Ardent Sacrifice/Reciprocal Aid
• Special: Draconic Aura
• A-skill: Death Blow
• B-skill: Brash Assault
• C-skill: Spur Atk

I'm mostly trying to just turn him into a player-phase nuke as best I can because I figured with his speed I should focus more on trying to OHKO than trying to salvage his speed. Brash Assault is to allow him to double and ORKO the likes of Hector and Michalis (picked Brash Assault over Axebreaker because it's also usable against reds if need be and because the main axe users I'm concerned about don't have the speed to double him anyways, making Axebreaker a little less useful. However, I'm not ruling it out since it would be very useful against Minerva, and I can just let Effie handle reds, which is also why I decided against running Swordbreaker, but I'm of course open to that as well). Ardent Sacrifice/Reciprocal Aid is to get him into his <50% threshold faster for Fólkvangr and Brash Assault, and Draconic Aura for more damage. 

The main problem with these two is that I'm not entirely sure what role I want them to fill on my team. Alfonse is mostly overshadowed by Ryoma, and Julia is generally fine at handling the blues that I'd want Michalis to. I'm leaning more towards Michalis because there's still a lot less niche overlap overall between him and Julia compared to Ryoma and Alfonse, but I'm also wary about bringing two greens into Arena. 

I'm at a loss as to what to do with my Arena team next season, so any advice would be appreciated!

Calling @MrSmokestack because I recall him being a Michalis advocate and @Sunwoo because he's the only person I remember off the top of my head with a 5* Alfonse. Obviously anyone else who wants to jump in is more than welcome. 

 

[TheNiddo]

@MaskedAmpharos I can tell you that outside of Lyn, Brash Assault is basically never good. You have to be below 50% HP and survive the counter attack in order to get its benefit. Even against axe users that's tricky to set up. Vantage would be better even though you said you wanted him to be player phased focus: since he already wants to be below 50% HP Vantage lets him have a chance to survive on enemy phase at least.

Beyond that though I'd probably go with Michalis. Just a much better unit all around, and can use his reposition to carry grounded units over terrain they can't pass over normally.

[DehNutCase]

@Fire Penguin Disco Panda +Spd Lucina is more or less the best possible boon for her, letting the L&D and Desperation combo secure a damn lot of 1RKOs. You can probably just hand her L&D, Desperation, and either Moonbow or Reprisal and build the rest of the team to counter her counters. (Shouldn't be much, +Spd, L&D 3, Reprisal Lucina 1RKOs 99 out of 118 characters before inheritance. Basically only blues with T-adept or good def (Ephraim, Effie, etc.) and reds with amazing speed or defense (Lon'qu, Hinata, Draug) survive, the stronger blues 1RKOing in return, while everyone else gets one rounded. Nino & Lucina cover basically everyone---Nino one rounds basically all the blues that give Lucina trouble---didn't check, but seems pretty obvious---while also 1RKOing Draug with a +Atk boon (or just a buff for Gronnblade) and bringing Hinata and Lon'qu low enough that Lucina can finish.)

A dancer would be a great addition to your lineup, as well. Even Olivia will do great despite the fact that she won't be killing anything---sharing a color with Lucina means the T-Adept build is redundant. Dance is strictly better than draw-back, reposition etc. since it does the same hit once and gtfo things draw-back could do, but also lets one of your units kill 2 in one turn if needed. Pity dancers have low BST, so they won't be viable for the very tip-top. But the same can be said of Takumi.

A Lucina, dancer, third DPS (one that kills everyone who gives Lucina trouble) core of 3 units will let you run basically any bonus unit you want, since Lucina's coverage is so damn good that she can stomp most teams with just dancer support. Nino & Lucina will be more or less the thunderbolt-icebeam combo of near perfect coverage, but someone like Klein or even just Takumi will do decent---albeit with M!Robin looking amazingly smug.

[Korath88]

7 hours ago, ILikeKirbys said:

@Humbug I'm just going by looking at Chrom's stats here, but I have a few suggestions:

@Korath88 Great write-up! Thanks, mate! However, I do have a couple of thoughts and a semi-related question:

1) I would argue for Wings of Mercy, if only for teams that lack Reciprocal Aid. I wouldn't want Ninian getting attacked, so giving her WoM allows you to teleport her to the front lines as needed without requiring her to be in serious danger due to being at low HP. Of course, if your team has Reciprocal Aid, I stand by your keeping Escape Route, but it's just a thought.

2) I wouldn't go Triangle Adept. Yes, making Falchions less of a problem is nice, but you can do that by bringing another good Blue unit to deal with those, so I would recommend a Defiant skill (if you're running Reciprocal Aid + Escape Route, then Ninian should always be in Defiant range, so it's a free +7 to one stat, which is nice I think) or HP +5 (to make Ninian more capable of surviving attacks generally, and to give her I think 47 or 50 HP, which is a good amount I think).

And now, a question:

I just re-checked this morning, and I was mistaken about my Ninian. She's +ATK/-HP, not +HP/-ATK like I thought. So now I want to build her a bit more offensively, since she has 37 ATK with Dark Breath equipped (and if I get her DB+, I think that goes up to 41), which is good on a support unit I think. Anyone got any ideas? I'm thinking of putting Defiant ATK on her, but beyond that I'm not too certain of what I should do here.

Reciprocal aid is not hard to fit on a team, since it's one of the best support skills, and can be inherited from Donnel, who is a free unit. I'd argue that every team with a <50% skill should have a teammate with that skill.

The point of reciprocal aid + escape route is not to always remain below 50%, but to be able to drop in and out of that range when necessary. The only weapons that really threaten to ORKO Ninian are falchions and green weapons. Defiant defense won't give her much more survivability than TA, if anything, TA combines the effects of defiant Atk, Def and Res without a HP requirement against red units. She shouldn't be anywhere near enemy greens anyways. HP+5 is generally a bad skill as it's mostly irrelevant.

I already considered defiant skills even before pulling her, but TA is just that much better in practice. Mine is +Atk -Res, which is similar to yours, and this set hasn't disappointed me at all.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Korath88

[Arcanite]

1 hour ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

*good question*

Fury on Michalis with bonfire and Quick Riposte is just straight up filth. With plus 3 defense he would live a double from a sword user with 49 or less attack (assuming I didn't screw up the math). He'd take 6 after from fury but he won't die so yeah.

+3 speed basically turns him into a stronger, less resistance Narcian.

Alfonse is a little hit or miss to me. He has boat loads of defense and attack but his speed is just deplorable. I will say, 62 attack when attacking on plyer phase with less than 50% is kind of ridiculous. That draconic aura is also nasty.

But my vote is Michalis 

[BANRYU]

@MaskedAmpharos I'd avoid Fury on Michalis to help ensure he stays in QuickRip HP range. QR means he's an enemy phase unit, so something that doesn't clash with it but still works well on EP is good, even just Atk/Def/Spd+3 would be good IMO.

Then again, there is the thing that Arcanite said so maybe disregard me lol

For Al, Brash Assault is a risky move, so just be aware of that, but that said it's a gimmick so I approve xD Though yeah wouldn't want to use it on anyone other than Lyn or someone who has the appropriate bulk to still be able to take a hit, and alongside Defiant Defense or something. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by BANRYU

[ILikeKirbys]

38 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Reciprocal aid is not hard to fit on a team, since it's one of the best support skills, and can be inherited from Donnel, who is a free unit. I'd argue that every team with a <50% skill should have a teammate with that skill.

The point of reciprocal aid + escape route is not to always remain below 50%, but to be able to drop in and out of that range when necessary. The only weapons that really threaten to ORKO Ninian are falchions and green weapons. Defiant defense won't give her much more survivability than TA, if anything, TA combines the effects of defiant Atk, Def and Res without a HP requirement against red units. She shouldn't be anywhere near enemy greens anyways. HP+5 is generally a bad skill as it's mostly irrelevant.

I already considered defiant skills even before pulling her, but TA is just that much better in practice. Mine is +Atk -Res, which is similar to yours, and this set hasn't disappointed me at all.

Ah, right, I completely forgot Donnel had Reciprocal Aid. That makes things much easier than I thought.

And I hadn't thought of that, regarding Reciprocal Aid + Escape Route. That makes sense, I forgot you could Reciprocal Aid to get your HP back up, haha.
I was thinking HP +5 would let Ninian have slightly more HP while at the Escape Route threshold... but you're right, that's pretty much irrelevant most of the time.

And if that set has worked for your similar Ninian, then I'll see about getting Triangle Adept 2 (not holding my breath for another Roy any time soon, especially when there's a grand total of 0 red units that I want in the next few banners so I won't be pulling Reds unless I can't pull a Blue/Green/Grey... that might change with the mid-April banner tho) on my Ninian so she can handle Falchions better.

Thanks for your help, mate.

@MaskedAmpharos I vote for Michalis. Your Ryoma/Julia/Effie team has physical Red covered by Ryoma, so Alfonse is just superfluous, but Michalis gives you three things that you really want:
1) Physical Green. Julia covers magic very well, yeah, but sometimes you just want to hit something with an axe, and when you do, Michalis has quite a good axe.
2) Flying. Michalis's movement is almost completely unrestricted, unlike the rest of your units, which will most likely come in handy, especially with...
3) Reposition. Michalis can move over impassable terrain and use Reposition to pull your units (read: Effie) over them, allowing you to move your units to places they could not normally go, or get them there faster (especially Effie).
Also, that stuff Arcanite was saying sounds pretty good, which is another point in Michalis's favor.

So, yeah, out of the two units you're considering Michalis is the best thing for your team IMO.

...

So, I pulled Bunny Xander today, he's +DEF/-HP (so at Level 40, his stats should be 36 HP / 38 ATK / 28 SPD / 38 DEF / 26 RES), and I want to make him a tank, so I was thinking...
0) Bunny Xander would be going on a team with Reinhardt (GOD, has Goad Cavalry to push Bunny Xander to 42 ATK and 32 SPD) / Stahl (Green Killer, will have Hone Cavalry to push Bunny Xander to 44 ATK and 34 SPD, which becomes 48 ATK and 38 SPD when combined with Goad Cavalry) / Frederick (Green Tank, will have Fortify Cavalry to push Bunny Xander to 44 DEF and 32 RES). Just something that I feel is worth mentioning here.
1) He'll keep the Carrot Lance+ for the healing effect, which is useful.
2) For his Special skill, he'll get Noontime, partially because I have a Laslow that can give it to him and partially because it lets him heal more frequently.
3) For his A Slot, he'll get Armored Blow, to push his DEF up to 44 on Player Phase and minimize the damage he takes while attacking.
3.5) I would give Bunny Xander Attack Def +2, but I don't have multiple Bunny Chroms (one to keep, and one to sacrifice for Bunny Xander).
4) For his B Slot, he'll get Renewal, for frequent healing on top of the Carrot Lance and Noontime's heals.
5) For his C Slot, he'll get Breath of Life, to spread the joy of spring (and light healing) to nearby allies, or Threaten DEF, so he can hit harder and get slightly more out of Noontime heals.
The thought process here is that Bunny Xander will be a tank that gets healed off of basically everything he does: He attacks, Carrot Lance heals him for 4 HP, and possibly Noontime heals him a bit too, and every couple of turns you can add 10 HP from Renewal to that as well. Additionally, Bunny Xander's DEF gets even higher when attacking thanks to Armored Blow, so he can stay as close to full HP as possible during Player Phase, and Breath of Life heals adjacent allies, which may come in handy. Bunny Xander needs to not get attacked by mages, but he should be able to tank physical attacks fairly well, especially against Reds, and heal off what damage he does take.
Additionally, Bunny Xander's team can push his stats to (with Hone Cavalry / Hone + Goad Cavalry) 44/48 ATK / 34/38 SPD / 44 DEF (which becomes 50 DEF when you add Armored Blow to it) / 32 RES, which look like great stats for a tank, I think. So he should be able to get quite a bit of mileage out of his healing skills with these stats (especially the ATK and DEF), and can generally block most physical units (especially after Fortify Cavalry, 44 DEF is a lot even when you aren't adding Armored Blow to make Bunny Xander near-impenetrable) while healing off whatever damage he takes, so long as he doesn't have to fight any mages (but I have Reinhardt to deal with those, and Xander, Stahl and Frederick can all handle mages if they don't have to take a hit first, so I'm not too worried).

Is this a crap build for Bunny Xander? Is there a better one I should be considering?