Voting Gauntlet: Pegasus Knights vs. Wyvern Riders

[HK Motendra]

20 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

If anyone would like a Minerva for their team (more defensively based one, I run Iote's Shield over Life & Death), my FC

5198586770

Running Minnie as my leader for the duration of the gauntlet, as I am staunchly team Minerva.

But but but she is a wyvern rider when she promotes

Not unless you play the Elysian Whip magic card!

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, Limstella said:

Team Minerva! I reopened the heroes app just to support her (my 10 flags and I will die for her) I will support her until she's knocked out and probably put the app away for a while after.

 

alright but if Catria was in this...

Hey any support is appreciated! Make sure you tell all your friends for the final round XD

Spoiler

Seriously though, tell your friends

 

[mcsilas]

1 hour ago, Frenzify said:

I'm about to just spout a baseless point with no evidence, but here's what I think; I think people do like Beruka. Obviously not to a fan favourite extent like Lucina or Camilla, but I just think it's the fact that we've got vastly more popular characters from the same game, stealing potential votes away, along with other potential voters voting for who they think will win, rather than who they actually like more.

Had Cherche not been in this gauntlet, I would have gone Beruka! 

That said I think it's the fact that she olays the cool, emotionless assassin too well that she gets overshadowed- some people might even think her no emotion means no personality so it's understandable when pitted against other characters she gets overlooked.

As for Camilla yes her design gets too enhanced too many times but some of her supports that don't involve Corrin are pretty decent, like how she took Beruka under her wing as retainer. Yes her dotingness is played up to eleven as player fanservice but in context, when her father's mistresses' children would be killed due to competitiveness for the a better there is a little base for her personality. Basically there's a reason for her messed up personality (see Niles's support where he calls her out on her personality)

in fact one of her supports that i enjoyed in Revelations is her bonding with Hinoka by teaching her how to sew by Hinoka's request, actually a pretty refreshing support for both characters.

Also, i find her English VA reaaallly tries way hard to be fanservicey that it puts off a lot of people. There's a bit of maturity in her Japanese VA and is much more pleasant to listen to admittedly.

but yeah Camilla has a lot if problems design-wise but there are at least some good things that appeal to some people besides her looks plus her usefulness in Conquest

By the way fun fact, Beruka's armour used to be Camilla's when she was younger.

[Falcom]

13 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Hey any support is appreciated! Make sure you tell all your friends for the final round XD
Seriously though, tell your friends

My friend chose team Camilla for the sake of feathers.
But on the bright side, I tricked my sister into joining team Minerva. XD
(She was originally going to choose Camilla also for feathers)

[Arcanite]

Just now, Falcom said:

But on the bright side, I tricked my sister into joining team Minerva. XD

Tricked?

What do you mean trick? You think joining team Minerva is a trick?

You think this is a game?

Go tell your sister she's the greatest and you have no idea what you're talking about.

Spoiler

Im kidding lol

Spoiler

But seriously, tell her she's the greatest 

 

 

[JJ48]

31 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

...Do you only look at boobs when you look at a girl? Camilla has a good figure even outside her 'assets,' long flowing hair tends to be attractive to a lot of people, and her face is also good.

I think Sunwoo said it rather well:

36 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

As a friend of mine said quite some time ago: "Camilla's boobs are nothing special."

I don't see the physical appeal in Camilla. Her face looks kind of standard for FE female characters. The only thing that really stands out is the boobs. And at that point, do you really like Camilla or do you just like boobs? Because the latter means if that if Hinoka was the one with big boobs and a revealing outfit, while Camilla was flat and dressed more modestly, Hinoka would have more fans.

The reason so many people who complain about Camilla reference her chest is because the developers seem to have decided that a large cup size and a flaunting manner should be her defining characteristics!  Take those away, and what does she have, really?  Long, flowing hair may be considered attractive, but that describes half the women in the series, so I would hardly think it a reason to like Camilla more than any of the others.  As for her face, she always seems to be wearing that sultry, seductress look that just comes across as quite unappealing.

If people claim they find her attractive, I'll believe them.  I'm just saying I don't see it, personally.

[Cute Chao]

29 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I think Sunwoo said it rather well:

The reason so many people who complain about Camilla reference her chest is because the developers seem to have decided that a large cup size and a flaunting manner should be her defining characteristics!  Take those away, and what does she have, really?  Long, flowing hair may be considered attractive, but that describes half the women in the series, so I would hardly think it a reason to like Camilla more than any of the others.  As for her face, she always seems to be wearing that sultry, seductress look that just comes across as quite unappealing.

If people claim they find her attractive, I'll believe them.  I'm just saying I don't see it, personally.

Eh, personally I quite like her mothering personality, so the boobs and general 'sex' appeal just annoy me as they get in the way of another sort of character. I loved her supports with Takumi, and how she seems to mother him and her retainers. Wouldn't mind if the Corrin obsession toned down, but it doesn't seem any worse than Tharja's obsession with Robin to me ^.^

So that's why I like her. She's not my favourite by a long shot, but I don't dislike her, and I prefer her to at least one candidate here, personally :) 

[Lushen]

I feel bad because I'm wasting valuable Minerva flags because I want to stay in the top 3,000...I should be saving them for the Camilla v. Minerva battle.

[Sunwoo]

9 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Eh, personally I quite like her mothering personality, so the boobs and general 'sex' appeal just annoy me as they get in the way of another sort of character. I loved her supports with Takumi, and how she seems to mother him and her retainers. Wouldn't mind if the Corrin obsession toned down, but it doesn't seem any worse than Tharja's obsession with Robin to me ^.^

That's one of the main differences between how we see her character. I don't find that aspect of Camilla's personality to be "mothering"; rather, I find it smothering and intrusive. Also, her support with Takumi felt more condescending towards him than mothering -- and in a way, being mothering towards people isn't particularly a good thing when it's unwarranted. I don't know. I just really don't like Camilla. I wouldn't want a friend like her. I wouldn't want a family member like her. I think the way she treats people is selfish, that she does "nice things" under the guise of caring about them, and everything about her screams "bad news" to me, and I'd run the hell away from her.

But that's the thing about people. We interpret the same characteristics in vastly different ways, which leads to how we feel about not just other people but characters as well.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Sunwoo

[Anime27Arts]

I just find it weird a lot of people sit and complain Camilla is over sexualized but say absolutely nothing about Charlotte. 

[MaskedAmpharos]

I honestly don't dislike Camilla at all; I just think it's fun to be the underdog and fight against the clear winner (I also liked Lucina but had a blast backing Ephraim). 

The thing about Camilla is that she actually has a fairly complex personality, but it's largely overshadowed by the immense focus put on her physical characteristics and her obsession with Corrin, blown even farther out of proportion by the fanbase largely oversimplifying her character as it tends to do with most characters (like Ephraim's defining characteristics having turned into being a siscon and a memelord). 

Camilla never knew love as a child, being the daughter of one of Garon's concubines who didn't particularly care for her. As a result of growing up with this kind of upbringing, she developed her mothering and nurturing nature to care for the younger siblings, Leo and Elise, because they came from similar backgrounds, and she didn't want them to feel the kind of lonely abandonment that she suffered through. She eventually grows close with the Nohr siblings and Corrin as they grow up, and they become her source of love, warmth, and acceptance. This also contributes to her fierce protectiveness of her siblings, to the point of obsession or brutality, because they filled her heart, left cold and empty after her mother's neglect, with warmth and provided her with a place where she could finally, truly feel loved and she'd be damned if she let anyone take that away from her. She's normally seen to be incredibly warm and nurturing with her siblings, but she's shown through various supports and the story that she's merciless and coldhearted when it comes to protecting her loved ones. 

Is she a perfect character? Good heavens no, not by any means. Her sense of familial love is incredibly warped to the point of obsessiveness, but that's because she never experienced love as a child and so doesn't know what it really should be like. She can't love normally because she was never shown how. Camilla is broken, shown by her brutal lack of emotion and merciless brutality for her enemies, with her only solace being the family that saved her from loneliness and gave her a reason to live, so it makes sense for her to be extraordinarily protective of them.  

Wow. I wasn't expecting to type out so much. Anyways, Camilla isn't my favorite Fire Emblem character, not by a long shot, and I won't be fighting for her in the gauntlet. But I don't dislike her, and I think the amount of flak she gets sometimes is a bit unfair. Yes, she's overly obsessive with Corrin, but I feel like that's because she was neglected in the past and doesn't quite know how to love normally.

There's also the whole issue of how fanservicey she is, and I'm certainly disappointed by how much focus has been put into that. However, I personally interpret it as her wielding her sex appeal as a tool or a weapon to get her way (as she was very obviously trying to do with Corrin in Chapter 13 of Birthright) rather than her being a particularly sexual woman herself. But I'm not going to go into more detail here as this post has gone on quite long enough. 

tldr - Camilla deserves better than the hate she gets. I'm not a fan of the way Nintendo uses her to throw fanservice in our faces because I genuinely think there's more to her than that and that she deserves better than to be treated as just a piece of fanservice. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[BANRYU]

Maybe now's an apt time to bring back this thing I wrote lol...

Yeah I picked Camilla and not for feathers... sorry not sorry but she's cool and I like her okay

[JJ48]

5 minutes ago, Anime27Arts said:

I just find it weird a lot of people sit and complain Camilla is over sexualized but say absolutely nothing about Charlotte. 

Well, I've only played Birthright, so I only had the one, easily forgettable encounter with her.  After looking up who she is, I would agree that her character design doesn't appear to be the best, but at least she's not a main character that the developers should supposedly have spent more time on.

[mcsilas]

9 minutes ago, Anime27Arts said:

I just find it weird a lot of people sit and complain Camilla is over sexualized but say absolutely nothing about Charlotte. 

I think it's because Camilla is more advertised and is shoved in the spotlight a lot of the time. Or the smothering/babying.

Other reasons could be Charlotte's character is about deceiving men for money so there's more of a reason (bad reason but still) for her outfit. She does have a hardworking side to her and sends money back to her poor parents (so there's at least some redeeming qualities for her money loving personality). There is development in supports (which can be a bit repetitive) but at least you feel she grows in personality more than Camilla.

In essence her character is all about "don't judge by looks too fast".

Back on topic, sigh I missed a lot of hours due to work so even with all flags spent on Cherche I can't go over the 1000 line anymore.

Edited April 6, 2017 by mcsilas

[Zero1k]

Abel why haven't you learned skills? (The debuff is of -7 attack)

[r_n]

10 minutes ago, Anime27Arts said:

I just find it weird a lot of people sit and complain Camilla is over sexualized but say absolutely nothing about Charlotte. 

I hate Charlotte's design (& her character, honestly, though she still got some solid supports), but Camilla probably gets more talk at this point since she's a main character in all the marketing and, for Heroes, the one that's actually available.

[BANRYU]

Yeah @Anime27Arts Charlotte's sexualization is actually an intentional part of her character, she deliberately dresses that way for the purpose of seducing and manipulating men lol. Which, unfortunately, is more than I can say for Camilla... she should also have used her looks to manipulate dudes in the plot IMO but what can you do. 

So yeah I don't have a problem with it for Charlotte because there's a reason for it and she's a decent character despite it. But then again I also don't have a problem with Camilla's look lol so grain of salt I guess

Also, yeah, Camilla is in the spotlight much more often so it makes sense that she'd catch more shit as a result of it.

[MaskedAmpharos]

@BANRYU Thanks for the insightful post (and by extension letting me discover that video, which I'm extra happy about as a psychology major). It basically sums up my thoughts about her: Camilla has a lot of potential as a character, and you can see bits and pieces of it, but it's largely overshadowed by the way the game developers use her as fanservice. I don't dislike Camilla so much as I dislike her wasted potential (and just in general, female characters being degraded or oversimplified to be just fanservice bothers me so, so much). 

[Sunwoo]

19 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

snip

Here's the thing with Camilla and the other Nohrian siblings for me, though. I totally get that they had difficult childhoods growing up. I totally get that they're fucked up because of how they grew up. These are reasons that people and characters may become the way they are. But in no way does it excuse what they've become either. I can understand why Camilla is the way she is, the psychological reasons why. I could be sympathetic that she had a shitty past. But that doesn't mean I have to like her for it, or to even excuse her actions. Also, most characters could be considered deep if we gave them that level of analysis.

Admittedly, it doesn't help that a lot of people who try to push the excuse that "the Nohrian siblings are just traumatized, it's not their fault they grew up in shitty conditions!" act like the Hoshidan siblings had perfect lives and have no depth to them and that they deserve to be destroyed because their country is more prosperous, so there's a bit of hypocrisy in there that I really detest, too.

tl;dr I don't think I personally am being unfair when I say I don't like Camilla. The parts of her personality that COULD be sympathetic just are not enough for me to overlook the things about her I hate, nor do I think it excuses her for acting the way she does even if it explains it. I mean, we're not obligated to like people because they had difficult pasts to explain their behavior. Sometimes, you just don't like someone no matter what.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Sunwoo

[MaskedAmpharos]

Just now, Sunwoo said:

snippy snip

Oh no that's perfectly fair. I'm not here to try and convince anyone to love Camilla (or even to not hate her) so much as I wanted to express my disappointment that she's seen as nothing more than fanservice by a large portion of the fanbase when I think there's more to her. 

I do also want to add that I don't think having a traumatic past ever excuses a person's actions, but I do think it adds more complexity to the character ("she's crazy because X happened and messed her up" is a lot more interesting than "she's crazy; deal with it"). 

[BANRYU]

8 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

@BANRYU Thanks for the insightful post (and by extension letting me discover that video, which I'm extra happy about as a psychology major). It basically sums up my thoughts about her: Camilla has a lot of potential as a character, and you can see bits and pieces of it, but it's largely overshadowed by the way the game developers use her as fanservice. I don't dislike Camilla so much as I dislike her wasted potential (and just in general, female characters being degraded or oversimplified to be just fanservice bothers me so, so much). 

Yeah man! Glad you liked the video lol. Even if I ultimately disagree with his opinion it's still a pretty insightful appraisal from what I know of psych (admittedly not a ton though). 

8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Here's the thing with Camilla and the other Nohrian siblings for me, though. I totally get that they had difficult childhoods growing up. I totally get that they're fucked up because of how they grew up. These are reasons that people and characters may become the way they are. But in no way does it excuse what they've become either. I can understand why Camilla is the way she is, the psychological reasons why. I could be sympathetic that she had a shitty past. But that doesn't mean I have to like her for it, or to even excuse her actions. Also, most characters could be considered deep if we gave them that level of analysis.

Admittedly, it doesn't help that a lot of people who try to push the excuse that "the Nohrian siblings are just traumatized, it's not their fault they grew up in shitty conditions!" act like the Hoshidan siblings had perfect lives and have no depth to them and that they deserve to be destroyed because their country is more prosperous, so there's a bit of hypocrisy in there that I really detest, too.

tl;dr I don't think I personally am being unfair when I say I don't like Camilla. The parts of her personality that COULD be sympathetic just are not enough for me to overlook the things about her I hate, nor do I think it excuses her for acting the way she does even if it explains it.

Dude, this is a totally acceptable opinion IMO. Tragic backstory explains bad behavior, but does not excuse it, that's a fair viewpoint. 

Personally I just want to remind people that liking her despite the flaws with her writing and her flaws as a person isn't a bad opinion in itself, and that her tits aren't the only reason people CAN have to like her. All I ask is that people have an informed opinion about the matter, which suffice to say I think you do, and I'm cool with it tbh. 

Personally, I just find dark characters (especially women, I suppose) interesting haha.

EDIT: In Camilla's case, I personally do sympathize with her and her backstory pretty highly, and while yeah 'tragic backstory explains but doesn't excuse behavior', I find it hard to view Camilla especially (debatably had the worst upbringing of the Nohr sibs debatably outside Corrin if you count them) as anything but a product of her environment. Not to say she's COMPLETELY blameless in anything ofc, farrrrrr from it (and I totally get why people wouldn't like her because of it), but since we never DO see her follow up on any of her rather violent threats, one could also make the argument that she doesn't actually mean any of that, just that she'll say anything she thinks will work in order to keep people from leaving her (I've seen some fan-written content that sells this perspective pretty well).

But I will say that if given the opportunity to date or even just work for her, I would NOT do it lol. I like her... but from a distance .3.

Edited April 7, 2017 by BANRYU

[Anime27Arts]

2 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Yeah @Anime27Arts Charlotte's sexualization is actually an intentional part of her character, she deliberately dresses that way for the purpose of seducing and manipulating men lol. Which, unfortunately, is more than I can say for Camilla... she should also have used her looks to manipulate dudes in the plot IMO but what can you do. 

So yeah I don't have a problem with it for Charlotte because there's a reason for it and she's a decent character despite it. But then again I also don't have a problem with Camilla's look lol so grain of salt I guess

Also, yeah, Camilla is in the spotlight much more often so it makes sense that she'd catch more shit as a result of it.

 

4 minutes ago, r_n said:

I hate Charlotte's design (& her character, honestly, though she still got some solid supports), but Camilla probably gets more talk at this point since she's a main character in all the marketing and, for Heroes, the one that's actually available.

 

9 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

I think it's because Camilla is more advertised and is shoved in the spotlight a lot of the time. Or the smothering/babying.

Other reasons could be Charlotte's character is about deceiving men for money so there's more of a reason (bad reason but still) for her outfit. She does have a hardworking side to her and sends money back to her poor parents (so there's at least some redeeming qualities for her money loving personality). There is development in supports (which can be a bit repetitive) but at least you feel she grows in personality more than Camilla.

In essence her character is all about "don't judge by looks too fast".

I understand she doesn't have a huge role in Conquest compared to Camilla,  but I still don't like how no one sees that Camilla isn't the only character who is overly sexualized like that.  I just really don't like Charlotte's whole deception act. Anyway, I've had my little rant, back on topic of the gauntlet.

6 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Back on topic, sigh I missed a lot of hours due to work so even with all flags spent on Cherche I can't go over the 1000 line anymore.

I've spent all my flags on her is the only reason I'm near the top.  I'm ranked 104 right now on team Cherche.  If you want you can add me to your friend list and you can use my Ninian, my ID is 2667371554 if you would like to add me!  I'm a Tier 10 if that matters to you

[Sunwoo]

Just now, MaskedAmpharos said:

I do also want to add that I don't think having a traumatic past ever excuses a person's actions, but I do think it adds more complexity to the character ("she's crazy because X happened and messed her up" is a lot more interesting than "she's crazy; deal with it"). 

Complexity in a character is nice, but complexity shouldn't be mistaken as something that makes a character likable. There are some characters that I like in terms of how they are written (regardless of personality), but I could still despise them for that personality.

Also, this is just speaking for me, and I really don't care if this makes me sound like an asshole, but I'm at a point where I'm done having sympathy for awful people who attribute the way they are to a bad upbringing. I had a particularly unpleasant experience here where someone who at times raged about how their life sucked was a complete asshole to my friends and me. People gave them more of a chance than they probably deserved, and it didn't change anything. Sometimes, once an asshole always an asshole regardless of how you were raised. Which is why people giving Camilla and the Nohrian siblings (and, in all honesty, every other attractive character who is unpleasant) a pass because "they're traumatized" and "it's not their fault" irks me so, so much. You try being on the receiving end of it. Unless you have the patience of a saint, your sympathy will run dry at some point.

[Arcanite]

Dang

I turn my back and the thread is just derailed beyond belief

Anywho, what I really came here for,

What's the situation on Beruka vs. Tupaci?

[Sunwoo]

Just now, Arcanite said:

Dang

I turn my back and the thread is just derailed beyond belief

Anywho, what I really came here for,

What's the situation on Beruka vs. Tupaci?

As of now, Tsubaki is leading by about 11,000,000.