Jedi's Thoughts on the FE Warriors news

[goodperson707]

1 hour ago, saisymbolic said:

I'm assuming it makes it easier on KT for creating move sets by having everyone with a single weapon, while also making it difficult for the player during combat should they encounter their weakness. 

EDIT: Apparently, Chrom uses a lance during an extended trailer, so they may already have thought about that. Actually, now that I think about it, I think he uses it during a special attack? I really don't feel like trying to look up the trailer just to confirm, though. At any rate, it could be an EX mode where the units use a secondary weapon for a limited amount of time, maybe?

 

It was most likely a special attack that your reffering too and I would hestiate to call it an actual lance. Seems more like some sort of energy/light/force (naga powers? Just the different game?) that he uses as a spear. There's a move that looks lance inspired in his combo too but dosen't look like he switches to an actual lance. (But the trailer goes pretty quick so something could have pretty easily slipped under my nose) 

So nk it dosen't really look like a weapon swtich mode/mechanic at all. (He follows up the "light" spear with the falchion boosted with similar whatever)  Seems like just drawing off stuff in awakening for his moveset while sticking with Falchion. 

[Xaos Steel Wing]

It all sounds pretty cool, except for...

Quote

The characters that appear are generally from Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light and Fire Emblem Awakening, as well as Fire Emblem Fates. This won’t be a gathering of the protagonists from across the series.

That's a real shame. I'd much rather there be solid representation from all games. But sticking to Awakening and Fates, with their recent releases and popularity, makes sense. I just don't quite like the casts of those games as much as I liked the casts of the GBA games.

I can understand the desire for weapon variety. I can still see many sword lords having unique fighting styles though: Lyn as a speedy swordmaster, Eirika as a fencer (though Eliwood could do that role too), Ike as a slow heavy hitter... But Marth, Chrom, and Lucina seem to be shoe-ins.

As long as Lyn is in, I'll be happy. After Lyn winning to Heroes poll, I can't imagine her not being in, though the decision might have been made much earlier.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Xaos Steel Wing

[Lord-Zero]

45 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

It all sounds pretty cool, except for...

That's a real shame. I'd much rather there be solid representation from all games. But sticking to Awakening and Fates, with their recent releases and popularity, makes sense. I just don't quite like the casts of those games as much as I liked the casts of the GBA games.

I can understand the desire for weapon variety. I can still see many sword lords having unique fighting styles though: Lyn as a speedy swordmaster, Eirika as a fencer (though Eliwood could do that role too), Ike as a slow heavy hitter... But Marth, Chrom, and Lucina seem to be shoe-ins.

As long as Lyn is in, I'll be happy. After Lyn winning to Heroes poll, I can't imagine her not being in, though the decision might have been made much earlier.

The problem with those like Lyn is that we're getting Ryoma and most likely Navarre and/or Lon'qu to cover speedy, eastern style swordsmanship. Eliwood can actually be a mounted unit and ride into battle with the massive Durandal but then we got Xander. Lucina is in an even harder spot due to the fact that anything regarding sword fighting, Marth and Chrom can do better. Even Smash's Sakurai deemed her as a "Marth for novice players" (Unless they go and pull the Spring or Bride variants to balance the roster and still include her) for Smash 4. Sword-wielding characters are already taking a pretty big part of the roster with the 3 OC's,  Marth, Chrom, Ryoma, Xander and Corrin. That's 8 sword users already. 

 

Taking into account the 3 game focus, what are the chances of seeing Ballistician Jake in this game? 

[Anacybele]

And haven't people said that Koei was able to make a bunch of sword wielders unique in another Warriors game anyway?

And besides, some of those characters have secondary weapons. Lyn could also use bows, Ike also got axes (in RD), Eliwood also got lances, I believe. The only other archer I see getting into this game is Takumi.The only other axe wielders I can see getting in are Hector and Frederick, and as for lances, Chrom, Lucina, and Frederick again (since he got the whole weapon triangle and starts with a lance in his home game). Everyone else is up in the air.

Another thing, Lucina's not in a hard spot at all lol. She's also one of the most popular characters out there and is actually from one of the three games being represented. She's getting in no doubt. I wouldn't complain much if she somehow didn't though, since I despise her.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Anacybele

[Folt]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

And haven't people said that Koei was able to make a bunch of sword wielders unique in another Warriors game anyway?

Yes, but the weapon triangle is in, and the developers going with "main characters are OCs who summon mainline FE characters to help them out" necessitates the twin protagonists to be sword wielders anyways because FE Lords are practically required to wield swords. Because of both of those factors, restrictions on games so that we won't get every protagonist (because the majority of them do in fact wield swords, either only swords, or as their main weapon) and so that we can get characters who can bring in variety to the game. Two of the three games are the two most popular games as of now and the majority of FE fans have at least one, two, three, or more favorites among the usually ignored minor characters of those games that CAN bring variety into the gameplay.

Shadow Dragon is here simply because it's the game that started it all, and whatever you may say about Marth's popularity, he remains one of the most iconic lords of the franchise.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Folt

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Folt said:

Yes, but the weapon triangle is in, and the developers going with "main characters are OCs who summon mainline FE characters to help them out" necessitates the twin protagonists to be sword wielders anyways because FE Lords are practically required to wield swords. Because of both of those factors, restrictions on games so that we won't get every protagonist (because the majority of them do in fact wield swords, either only swords, or as their main weapon) and so that we can get characters who can bring in variety to the game. Two of the three games are the two most popular games as of now and the majority of FE fans have at least one, two, three, or more favorites among the usually ignored minor characters of those games that CAN bring variety into the gameplay.

Shadow Dragon is here simply because it's the game that started it all, and whatever you may say about Marth's popularity, he remains one of the most iconic lords of the franchise.

What? Lords are NOT required to wield swords. Did you forget that Ephraim, Micaiah, and Hector exist? Sure, they were in games alongside other lords who wield swords, but they were still given different weapons anyway.

And why did ALL the original characters have to wield swords? Why couldn't only Shion have a sword while Lian got a lance and Darios got an axe or something? They didn't all need to have swords. This is a poor gameplay decision on their part when they could have just made the OCs wield a variety of weapons to help balance things out.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Anacybele

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

 

Taking into account the 3 game focus, what are the chances of seeing Ballistician Jake in this game?

KT has included siege weapons in their games before. DW7 and WO3 have ballistas, catapults, cannons, 100% fantasy "Juggernauts", and giant lasers. The ballistae are really fun to use, seeing how they're basically immobile arrow machine guns.

A Ballistician Jake with something like: C1- rapid fire arrows, C2- one large Arrowspate shot, C3- Stonehoist rock throw, C4- Hoistflamme/Pachyderm incendiary shot, and C5- Thunderbolt electrifying blast, could work. Massive range and power in exchange for a lack of comboing abilities, not a terrible tradeoff as long as Jake doesn't move too slow across the map.

[Arthur97]

6 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

The problem with those like Lyn is that we're getting Ryoma and most likely Navarre and/or Lon'qu to cover speedy, eastern style swordsmanship. Eliwood can actually be a mounted unit and ride into battle with the massive Durandal but then we got Xander. Lucina is in an even harder spot due to the fact that anything regarding sword fighting, Marth and Chrom can do better. Even Smash's Sakurai deemed her as a "Marth for novice players" (Unless they go and pull the Spring or Bride variants to balance the roster and still include her) for Smash 4. Sword-wielding characters are already taking a pretty big part of the roster with the 3 OC's,  Marth, Chrom, Ryoma, Xander and Corrin. That's 8 sword users already. 

 

Taking into account the 3 game focus, what are the chances of seeing Ballistician Jake in this game? 

Can you honestly say that Lucina isn't making the cut? That would alienate a lot of the people they're trying to appeal to with the limited focus as she is the most well liked character from the target games. I realize it's not all about popularity, but they do need a few big names, and Xander and Ryoma don't quite cut it.

Besides, Chrom threw a lance in the trailer, so they could certainly adjust her moveset to use other abilities she has access to such as bows like in STEAM. Also, just because they want to limit swords doesn't mean that they won't take up the single biggest portion of the roster.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Arthur97

[Folt]

13 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

What? Lords are NOT required to wield swords. Did you forget that Ephraim, Micaiah, and Hector exist? Sure, they were in games alongside other lords who wield swords, but they were still given different weapons anyway.

And why did ALL the original characters have to wield swords? Why couldn't only Shion have a sword while Lian got a lance and Darios got an axe or something? They didn't all need to have swords. This is a poor gameplay decision on their part when they could have just made the OCs wield a variety of weapons to help balance things out.

Yes. Three out of 14-15 Lords. And of those three, Hector mostly plays as a secondary Lord to Eliwood and doesn't really have any importance in Lyn Mode which stars that other Sword-wielding Lord, Ephraim has to share the spotlight with Eirika who many fans feel is the more important one of the two, and Micaiah eventually gets overshadowed by Ike who wields swords. They're simply exceptions that prove the rule, and don't really disprove it.

Indeed, Ike was based on Hector so one could say that Ike is essentially Hector with the Lord role to himself. And how best to establish that? Have him wield swords.

As for why Shion and Lian both wield swords, I have a feeling it's to make them both established as our main lords of equal importance for this game. Darios wields swords because he taught them (or at least the boy) how to fight with a sword so the game and the narrative needs to show that to us.

It also strengthens the tidbit about how his kingdom and the twins' kingdom has good relations with one another: The two kingdoms have such good relations with one another that the twins are taught swordmanship from no less than the neighbouring kingdom's Prince himself, and in return, they see his kingdom as a benefactor and an important ally.

[Slumber]

There's actually an argument to be made that Hector is the "true" Lord of FE7, and not Eliwood. Lyn gets her own chunk of game, but she has basically no role once Hector and Eliwood show up. 

Regardless, it doesn't matter. None of them are likely to be in Warriors outside of DLC. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Slumber

[Folt]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

There's actually an argument to be made that Hector is the "true" Lord of FE7, and not Eliwood. 

Lyn gets her own chunk of game, but she has basically no role once Hector and Eliwood show up. 

Yet, to actually get the story where Hector is the main character, you need to go through the story starring Eliwood as the main character. So to get to have the one guy who wields an axe be the main lord of the story, you have to go through the stories where the sword users are the main characters first.

[The DanMan]

@Jedi I think suggesting 25-35 characters in the writeup is setting people's expectations too high. 18 is the record for a first installment Musou crossover, so 20+ is basically confirmed-- but I have a hard time seeing more than 30 characters.

It's not going to be significantly more than others because of basic monetary and resource constraints: only so much can be done from scratch. The success of Hyrule Warriors and Nintendo's confidence in the FE brand surely bolstered the development, but outside of straight up "classes = clones" I think 25 characters should be the expectation.

Edited June 1, 2017 by The DanMan

[Jedi]

5 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

@Jedi I think suggesting 25-35 characters in the writeup is setting people's expectations too high. 18 is the record for a first installment Musou crossover, so 20+ is basically confirmed-- but I have a hard time seeing more than 30 characters.

It's not going to be significantly more than others because of basic monetary and resource constraints: only so much can be done from scratch. The success of Hyrule Warriors and Nintendo's confidence in the FE brand surely bolstered the development, but outside of straight up "classes = clones" I think 25 characters should be the expectation.

I just did a video with the Source Gaming guy who feels that they may have tons of characters but a general set of "Class movesets" while tons of characters act as skins and alternate stat lines, which would fit with FE but it would make us traditional Warriors fans a bit skeptical.

Thanks Dynasty Warriors 6.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Jedi

[The DanMan]

3 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I just did a video with the Source Gaming guy who feels that they may have tons of characters but a general set of "Class movesets" while tons of characters act as skins and alternate stat lines, which would fit with FE but it would make us traditional Warriors fans a bit skeptical.

Thanks Dynasty Warriors 6.

...They better not go with "classes = clones". The DW7 chars were obnoxious enough to me.

[Folt]

I've been thinking about it: If they go with a class system, maybe they could tie movesets up with weapons instead, with what weapons you're able to use tied up to classes. But in a twist, every character would have three weapons using the same moveset that only they can wield, with their power going from basic to medium to strong.

 

Alternatively, the class-based system will actually be used by the OCs while the mainline FE characters will have unique movesets instead.

[HK Motendra]

2 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

...They better not go with "classes = clones". The DW7 chars were obnoxious enough to me.

thing is, even if they did, arent there variances with classes within these entries in particular that can differentiate them? For example, the Knight Class may be a lance only unit in all 3 games, but when promoted to General, they gain bows in SD, while in the other two, gain axes. Likewise with FalconKnights that had Swords as secondary weapons and now include staves instead. Granted, I don't think this could be applied to every class, since there are certainly some that remained the same, such as the Merc, Myrm and Cav lines (not including the Great Knight)

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, Motendra said:

thing is, even if they did, arent there variances with classes within these entries in particular that can differentiate them? For example, the Knight Class may be a lance only unit in all 3 games, but when promoted to General, they gain bows in SD, while in the other two, gain axes. Likewise with FalconKnights that had Swords as secondary weapons and now include staves instead. Granted, I don't think this could be applied to every class, since there are certainly some that remained the same, such as the Merc, Myrm and Cav lines (not including the Great Knight)

Well we want Koei to make everyone have 100% unique movesets with similar weapons is the thing, like how DW8, Warriors Orochi 3, Musou Stars, Dynasty Warriors 5, Samurai Warriors, etc are.

[Arthur97]

If they can give 3 Links different movesets, surely they can pull this off.

[Lord-Zero]

2 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Can you honestly say that Lucina isn't making the cut? That would alienate a lot of the people they're trying to appeal to with the limited focus as she is the most well liked character from the target games. I realize it's not all about popularity, but they do need a few big names, and Xander and Ryoma don't quite cut it.

Besides, Chrom threw a lance in the trailer, so they could certainly adjust her moveset to use other abilities she has access to such as bows like in STEAM. Also, just because they want to limit swords doesn't mean that they won't take up the single biggest portion of the roster.

People think I'm joking but I'm pretty serious about that. With both Marth and Chrom swinging their Falchions around, Lucina is in a difficult position despite her whole popularity thing. Robin has a shot due to his magic but even he isn't shoo-in. Awakening has Chrom already representing it as its protagonist and with the roster being kinda tight, Chrom is enough. Alienating the fanbase? Maybe some of the older fans and the ones that see Lucina as a "waifu" and besides, the 3 game focus already "alienated" part of the old fanbase which is rather minuscule in comparison to the bigger casual audience that was brought in by Awakening amd Fates. 

 

Also, Chrom didn't throw an actual lance; that was an energy weapon shot from Chrom's Falchion upon closer inspection. Xander and Ryoma are there to represent Conquest and Birthright respectively. 

As of now, counting the oiginal characters, we have 8 characters that are swordsmen. If the roster will be 19-25-ish, maybe we could get another swordman or two. They're already taking a noticeable chunk of the roster. 

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, Lord-Zero said:

People think I'm joking but I'm pretty serious about that. With both Marth and Chrom swinging their Falchions around, Lucina is in a difficult position despite her whole popularity thing. Robin has a shot due to his magic but even he isn't shoo-in. Awakening has Chrom already representing it as its protagonist and with the roster being kinda tight, Chrom is enough. Alienating the fanbase? Maybe some of the older fans and the ones that see Lucina as a "waifu" and besides, the 3 game focus already "alienated" part of the old fanbase which is rather minuscule in comparison to the bigger casual audience that was brought in by Awakening amd Fates. 

 

Also, Chrom didn't throw an actual lance; that was an energy weapon shot from Chrom's Falchion upon closer inspection. Xander and Ryoma are there to represent Conquest and Birthright respectively. 

As of now, counting the oiginal characters, we have 8 characters that are swordsmen. If the roster will be 19-25-ish, maybe we could get another swordman or two. They're already taking a noticeable chunk of the roster. 

Lucina is the poster girl for Awakening though, not having her there would be mind boggling. She's like on all the merch.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Jedi

[Lord-Zero]

Just now, Jedi said:

Lucina is the poster girl for Awakening though, not having her there would be mind boggling. She's like on all the merch.

That didn't stop Atlus from not adding her and other more known Awakening characters in TMS and so on. Chrom is the actual main protagonist with Robin and later Lucina joining in as an avatar character and another main character. It's not really as "mind boggling" to me at all. Her main problem is how can she, another Falchion user, stand out from Marth and Chrom? Sure, you could give her a different fighting style, a lance and change her sword beam's colors and all that cool stuff but since isn't a gathering of protagonists and with the weapon triangle diversity thing going on, they have to leave space for lances, axes, bows, magic, horses, pegasi, wyverns, armors and so on. 

[Folt]

14 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

People think I'm joking but I'm pretty serious about that. With both Marth and Chrom swinging their Falchions around, Lucina is in a difficult position despite her whole popularity thing. Robin has a shot due to his magic but even he isn't shoo-in. Awakening has Chrom already representing it as its protagonist and with the roster being kinda tight, Chrom is enough. Alienating the fanbase? Maybe some of the older fans and the ones that see Lucina as a "waifu" and besides, the 3 game focus already "alienated" part of the old fanbase which is rather minuscule in comparison to the bigger casual audience that was brought in by Awakening amd Fates. 

 

Also, Chrom didn't throw an actual lance; that was an energy weapon shot from Chrom's Falchion upon closer inspection. Xander and Ryoma are there to represent Conquest and Birthright respectively. 

As of now, counting the oiginal characters, we have 8 characters that are swordsmen. If the roster will be 19-25-ish, maybe we could get another swordman or two. They're already taking a noticeable chunk of the roster. 

Actually, Robin has a very high chance of getting in, not just because he's primarily shown with magic, but also because as the tactician of Awakening, he could fulfill certain narrative roles in the story and on the battlefield.

Lucina is probably a bit superfluous, but I think she's going to get in anyways. That does however mean that there probably won't be that many units to pick from among those who mainly use swords, with the twins, Darios, Marth, Chrom, Corrin, Ryoma, Xander, and Lucina covering many things as a whole.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Folt

[Jedi]

9 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

That didn't stop Atlus from not adding her and other more known Awakening characters in TMS and so on. Chrom is the actual main protagonist with Robin and later Lucina joining in as an avatar character and another main character. It's not really as "mind boggling" to me at all. Her main problem is how can she, another Falchion user, stand out from Marth and Chrom? Sure, you could give her a different fighting style, a lance and change her sword beam's colors and all that cool stuff but since isn't a gathering of protagonists and with the weapon triangle diversity thing going on, they have to leave space for lances, axes, bows, magic, horses, pegasi, wyverns, armors and so on. 

They'd just go the Project X Zone route and make her a Bride probably. Also do note that like outside of TMS this is the first time Chrom is actually being built up as something instead of a joke too lol, so while traditions could change, I don't see them excluding her from something that is much more marketable.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Jedi

[Lord-Zero]

I'm actually quite skeptical on Robin at the moment. There's his whole tactician thing but I can see KT bringing their original tactician as well. The 8 swordmen we currently have already cover almost everything sword related except flying. 

 

@Jedi: That is also a possibility. Same with Spring Chrom. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Lord-Zero

[Arthur97]

17 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

People think I'm joking but I'm pretty serious about that. With both Marth and Chrom swinging their Falchions around, Lucina is in a difficult position despite her whole popularity thing. Robin has a shot due to his magic but even he isn't shoo-in. Awakening has Chrom already representing it as its protagonist and with the roster being kinda tight, Chrom is enough. Alienating the fanbase? Maybe some of the older fans and the ones that see Lucina as a "waifu" and besides, the 3 game focus already "alienated" part of the old fanbase which is rather minuscule in comparison to the bigger casual audience that was brought in by Awakening amd Fates. 

 

Also, Chrom didn't throw an actual lance; that was an energy weapon shot from Chrom's Falchion upon closer inspection. Xander and Ryoma are there to represent Conquest and Birthright respectively. 

As of now, counting the oiginal characters, we have 8 characters that are swordsmen. If the roster will be 19-25-ish, maybe we could get another swordman or two. They're already taking a noticeable chunk of the roster. 

Exactly, if you cut Lucina you alienate the modern fanbase as well. She is to modern Fire Emblem what Marth is to old Fire Emblem.

5 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

That didn't stop Atlus from not adding her and other more known Awakening characters in TMS and so on. Chrom is the actual main protagonist with Robin and later Lucina joining in as an avatar character and another main character. It's not really as "mind boggling" to me at all. Her main problem is how can she, another Falchion user, stand out from Marth and Chrom? Sure, you could give her a different fighting style, a lance and change her sword beam's colors and all that cool stuff but since isn't a gathering of protagonists and with the weapon triangle diversity thing going on, they have to leave space for lances, axes, bows, magic, horses, pegasi, wyverns, armors and so on. 

Yes, because that game is what we should go by. Again, they made 3 Links be different, they can pull this off. Swords are almost certainly going to be the most plentiful weapon anyway. Lucina is a near shoo-in. I think you're putting too much stock in the weapon diversity just like others are putting too little stock in it.

Just now, Jedi said:

They'd just go the Project X Zone route and make her a Bride probably.

That may be going a little too far.