What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Arthur97]

30 minutes ago, ping said:

You can unlock a few enemies and NPCs (Narshen, Gale, Hector, Brunya, Eliwood, Murdock, Zephiel, Guinivere) to use on the postgame trial maps by beating the game up to 9 times.

Huh, neat.

56 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Eliwood's best pairing is with Lyn

I'm not alone!

56 minutes ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Lucina is nothing special. In fact, I find her really boring and lame.

You had to ruin it.

[familyplayer]

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Anna is awful 90% of the time. I don't like her personality at all and only tolerated her in Heroes, where she has a better attitude (and look :3). Unfortunately they seem to be reverting back the old trope...

Do you mean the new Anna or the old Anna? I'm guessing you mean the money-loving one.

[Silverly]

19 minutes ago, familyplayer said:

Do you mean the new Anna or the old Anna? I'm guessing you mean the money-loving one.

Yeah, pretty much.

[saisymbolic]

3 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Anna is awful 90% of the time. I don't like her personality at all and only tolerated her in Heroes, where she has a better attitude (and look :3). Unfortunately they seem to be reverting back the old trope...

I hate money-grubbing Anna as well. I remember when Awakening first came out and everyone on YT that played the game that I watched married her and I literally could not see the appeal when I witnessed her support conversation with Robin. Even until the end, she is still an opportunistic materialist that only has love in her heart for her billions of sisters and money. Seems like she only tolerates the Avatar for potentially being useful in her schemes and scams. The only time I remotely felt something positive for her was when she was the irrelevant Tutorial Girl in some games.

• I like the idea of Outrealms and have no ill will against their existence. I've always liked the thought of multiverses as I associate them with paradoxes, another concept I'm quite fond of. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by saisymbolic

[PersonWithTime]

On 6/25/2017 at 4:34 PM, Rezzy said:

Conquest had a better story than Birthright.  The first half of Revelation was good, until the second half ruined it.

That makes me sad that that's an unpopular opinion. I honestly had my Fates fix after I beat Conquest (which was the one I started with). Also, yeah... I sorta agree with the Revelations thing even though I'm like 6 chapters away from beating it. The second half has felt really rushed.

Anyway my opinions

• I love Roy and Binding Blade is great
• I prefer Female Robin and Male Corrin
• I actually can't stand Female Corrin
• I think he's okay, but I don't see the big deal with Hector
• Radiant Dawn didn't disappoint me
• I consider Ike/Soren couple canon
• Meg is the best and most easy to level up unit

That last one was a joke.

[Reality]

Travant is definitely a better villain than Alvis in FE4.

[Rezzy]

Navarre and his whole archetype are overrated.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, saisymbolic said:

I hate money-grubbing Anna as well. I remember when Awakening first came out and everyone on YT that played the game that I watched married her and I literally could not see the appeal when I witnessed her support conversation with Robin.

It was her Tiki support that made me dislike her, and then that Hot Springs dlc ending made me really dislike her. Before that, she was fine as a slightly mysterious mascot girl, and she wasn't bad in TMS either.

1 hour ago, saisymbolic said:

I like the idea of Outrealms and have no ill will against their existence. I've always liked the thought of multiverses as I associate them with paradoxes, another concept I'm quite fond of. 

Outrealms are fine, over-reliance on them and the subset called Deeprealms, not in their different time flow aspect but their baby dump aspect, is what is problematic.

3 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

I'm not alone!

I also like EliwoodxLyn, see this topic for part of my opinion on the matter. EliwoodxLyn isn't so damsel-y as Eliwood's other supports, it's a friendship that reasonably turns into romance, as opposed to feeling like it'll end romantically right from the start with Fiora and Ninian.

As for Lucina, I might slightly rip on her favoritism from time to time, but I'm ambivalent towards her. Her touching reveal as Chrom's daughter is what I consider to be the zenith of Awakening's plot.

30 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Navarre and his whole archetype are overrated.

Everyone in it? I can understand Navarre and Samto and Shiva and Rutger (and does Guy really belong in it?) and Joshua and Lon'qu. But Zihark too? He isn't overly edgy and he's fairly open about his past, he's a fairly nice and amicable average guy once you get past his looks.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Stephen the Great]

6 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

7 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Eliwood's best pairing is with Lyn

 

 

Hey, whaddya know? I think so too!

3 hours ago, Reality said:

Travant is definitely a better villain than Alvis in FE4.

"Marry, amen." - Shakespeare

But I honestly believe that that is the case. Travant is characterized by a reckless desire to improve the lot of his people, whereas Arvis commits murder and miscarriage of justice because of a pathetic Oedipus complex. Not to mention the fact that the Lopt Sect runs amok in Arvis' realm largely because he is indebted to Manfroy for bringing Deirdre to him.

Rectified due to doubleplusungood inaccuracy in referring to unfacts. I must make sure to upsub my assertions to an FE4 fan antefiling. Therefore, I will create goodthinkful writings in a goodthinkwise manner. Thanks, @Interdimensional Observer!

Edited September 28, 2017 by Sigismund of Luxemburg
Find the Eric Arthur Blair references!

[Arthur97]

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I also like EliwoodxLyn, see this topic for part of my opinion on the matter. EliwoodxLyn isn't so damsel-y as Eliwood's other supports, it's a friendship that reasonably turns into romance, as opposed to feeling like it'll end romantically right from the start with Fiora and Ninian.

Since Awakening was my first major introduction to them outside of Brawl and they seemed to push for LynXEliwood a bit, that is what got me started on them. Then the game seemed to push Ninian so hard when I finally played it, but I was adamant to keep Lyn.

[Rezzy]

36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Everyone in it? I can understand Navarre and Samto and Shiva and Rutger (and does Guy really belong in it?) and Joshua and Lon'qu. But Zihark too? He isn't overly edgy and he's fairly open about his past, he's a fairly nice and amicable average guy once you get past his looks.

I don't think Zihark or especially Guy are Navarre types.  Karel is almost a parody of the Navarre in FE7, so that seat's already taken.  Zihark isn't really edgy enough to be a Navarre.

[Acacia Sgt]

Is being "edgy" actually a characteristic of the archetype?

[Interdimensional Observer]

53 minutes ago, Sigismund of Luxemburg said:

whereas Arvis commits murder and miscarriage of justice because of a pathetic Oedipus complex.

He didn't realize Deirdre was his sister until after they were married. Arvis was being blackmailed by Manfroy since he has Loptyr blood and the public would be willing to lynch/witch hunt anyone associated with the Loptyr Cult. He didn't mean to mock Sigurd when he brought Deirdre out, he heard rumors about Sigurd's missing wife and was afraid the amnesiac Deirdre was it. He brought her out to see if his fears were right, they were, and so he murdered Sigurd thinking she would abandon him. Arvis is insecure, his heart is cold thanks to his daddy being a philanderer who committed suicide after his wife, who was beautiful and innocent, ran away.

You also ignore that for the first decade or so of the Grannvale Empire's existence, Arvis sought to be benevolent in his rule of the world. Of course governing in Belhalla over such a huge empire means the peripheries are bound to be subject to the unchecked avarice of the regional officials, but Arvis didn't want it. Arvis wanted to do good. Child hunts and the super terrible stuff didn't happen until Julius got possessed by Loptyr, Deirdre was murdered by him and Julia escaped as an amnesiac.

You can like Travant more than Arvis, but don't misunderstand his actions and motivations.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Rezzy]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Is being "edgy" actually a characteristic of the archetype?

It's one of the main aspects, yep.

[UNLEASH IT]

Children have been inconsequential for every game they've been implemented in.

You can complete Fates without ever unlocking a single child paralogue.

It's the same case in Awakening, except the child units are even less useful because; 1. You can only start recruiting them past chapter 13  2. Some paralogues are locked behind certain chapters (or other paralogues) 3. The child units need to be grinded to catch up with the rest of the party due to the absence of child seals.

Even in FE4 they don't matter because while the substitute children are inferior (in most cases), they are still serviceable and Seliph, Ares (especially him), Leif and Shanan can pretty much kill anything that comes their way while Julia can solo Julius with the Naga tome. 

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

It's one of the main aspects, yep.

I may probably have forgotte, but I don't remember ever reading that was one.

Usually it's just being early-joining, enemy-recruited, carrying a Killing Edge, etc.

[UNLEASH IT]

Just now, Rezzy said:

It's one of the main aspects, yep.

The edgelord myrmidon is a dying breed though. I guess Deen counts, 

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

It's one of the main aspects, yep.

Well the personality aspects, but archetypes are a blend of looks, personality, and gameplay. From a gameplay perspective, a Navarre starts as an enemy (Lon'qu was supposed to be fought, but Lucina coopted him), is a myrmidon, is male, and has a Killing Edge. Recruitment via conversation with a nice lady is optional. Of course, each member in an archetype differs a little or more from the standards, and some individuals questionably belong in an archetype (like Erk as a Merric).

2 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Children have been inconsequential for every game they've been implemented in.

I'll concur here too. But having kids in Fates is nice for lategame unit slot filler, as long as you're not one of handful for whom doing their Paralogues late is all too nasty.

As for FE4, thank goodness they give you Seliph and Leif and Ares and Shannan and Oifey. What if you made terrible/no pairings? Like the royals in RD, they exist to keep things possible under the worst of circumstances.

The Awakening children are the weakest though, particularly with their weapon rank issues.

[Stephen the Great]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You can like Travant more than Arvis, but don't misunderstand his actions and motivations.

Behold, O ye Forumites, the consequences of not doing thy research.

[Reality]

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

He didn't realize Deirdre was his sister until after they were married. Arvis was being blackmailed by Manfroy since he has Loptyr blood and the public would be willing to lynch/witch hunt anyone associated with the Loptyr Cult. He didn't mean to mock Sigurd when he brought Deirdre out, he heard rumors about Sigurd's missing wife and was afraid the amnesiac Deirdre was it. He brought her out to see if his fears were right, they were, and so he murdered Sigurd thinking she would abandon him. Arvis is insecure, his heart is cold thanks to his daddy being a philanderer who committed suicide after his wife, who was beautiful and innocent, ran away.

You also ignore that for the first decade or so of the Grannvale Empire's existence, Arvis sought to be benevolent in his rule of the world. Of course governing in Belhalla over such a huge empire means the peripheries are bound to be subject to the unchecked avarice of the regional officials, but Arvis didn't want it. Arvis wanted to do good. Child hunts and the super terrible stuff didn't happen until Julius got possessed by Loptyr, Deirdre was murdered by him and Julia escaped as an amnesiac.

You can like Travant more than Arvis, but don't misunderstand his actions and motivations.

Some of this sounds more like the manga than the game-

Re- Diadora - Arvis already stated his intent that sacrificing Sigurd was neccesary to Manfloy the chapter before- it was not a spur of the moment thing brought on by confirmation of jealously. Additionally, the way he presents the story of discovering her after her being lost for so long is quite self-serving. And his "true love" can only ever be pathetic due to Manfloy wiping her mind - which Arvis may not have known when he married her but definitely knew from Sigurd's last words at Barhara. At that point he could no more justify the marriage than you could to a girl doped on drugs. And this commitment to dishonesty continues during his 10 "good" years as emperor before the book of lopto even tips the balance of power away from him.

Re- Blackmail- Arvis was already aware of his heritage - these kind of stories usually play out with good of the world vs affirming free will (ala Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen) but Arvis only really preserves himself out of self interest in Gen 1 . Granted dying in a child hunt is awful and part of his intent to "create a world without prejudices" meshes with the scene in chapter 7 that hints that descendents of the lopusou sect aren't inherently evil but the persecution/living in hiding has increased the "bad" proportion. Nevertheless, I put him more in the self preservation category than anything else, because unless he was SO confident of his ability to fix the class problems in Judgdrall, it would seem that martyring himself publcly as the last loputsou (to his knowledge) would help more people due to ending the justication for yearly witch hunts. 

So Arvis is already knowingly committing a crime by existing and avoiding a sacrifical destiny. This is partly understandable, if disappointing simple. However, he ramps up his moral cowardice as soon as he decides it is justified to add additional crimes on top of this first one.

The biggest problem with the blackmail is Manfloy's part in it though- The threat of exposure is entirely idle, since it would completely destroy Manfloy's own agenda. The fact that Arvis caves in to such a mess of a villian weakens him. Manfloy even emasculates him more in gen 2 when, before Arvis fights Celice, Manfloy holds Julia hostage. This is the single dumbest act of blackmail in history, since Manfloy doesn't have the authority not to kill her (since he hasn't had his conversation with Julius asking if he can keep her alive yet). And somehow Arvis is manipulated by this despite already knowing about Julius trying to kill her before... Also his knowledge of book of naga pretty much gurantees that he knows the reason the lopto sect can never truthfully agree to leave her alone

Re- first ten years as emperor- We are told briefly that he does actually carry out reforms (reinforced by some villages later) and more importantly we see him directly challenge  the authority Manfloy will have in the new regime even before the flash-forward. However, even in his good years we have to consider stuff like North Thracia- you could argue that the Lopto sect lobbied for the appointment as part of Manfloy/Berdo's plan to keep that region in a warzone, but considering how central this is to Arvis's authority it seems less likely than him just screwing that region over to keep Travant's position as a subservient ally. Because of this, even though he wants to be reformer- I feel that it's nonethless also important to him that he is  the reformer on top-

The second problem is that Genealogy uses "the will/plight of the common people" in multiple villages throughout the game for chararthers like Sigurd, Celice, Leaf, and even Sety. However there is no real indication that Arvis's attention actually extends that far, as even the villages that see him as a good leader are more due to removal of corrupt nobles that a newly established positive policy toward them and as a NPC, we never get villages in the middle of a conflict land (only those in his own country) that speak positively of him.

Re- last seven years. Once Julius awakens, Arvis's charather goes down the toliet. We are told once from Julius "we know what happened the first time you tried to exile me", but it's pretty important that WE don''t get to see this earlier heroism first-hand. Given that Julius kills his wife and drives his daughter into hiding, Arvis has every reason to resist him openly again, even if Julius has already demonstrated his higher power level. Arvis is shown sabotaging the child hunts (but to an utterly insignigant degree), and yes, he does covertly provides Seliph with a Holy weapon and the Book of Naga. However, I think his ability to feel guilt and do good things under duress pales compared to his moral cowardice overall.

He has no reason to give in so completely to hopelessness, even with Julius's ability to teleport and invulnerability, because people without holy blood ARE able to rebel in Issac and Thracia without being magically instantaneously punished. I do not see Book 2 Arvis's passivity as justified as "he knows he can't win against them and is just being rational in order to do the most good"- Part of why that excuse doesn't work is because Julius acts so childishly and Manfloy so incompetently, that they strain our ability to beleive that they could intimidate someone to that extent- But the bigger part of why it doesn't work is because Arvis himself doesn't come off as having a strong character. His life is pretty much a meaningless existence, and yet he cannot commit to making a stand- In FE3 the outcome/effectiveness of Camus's rebellion is not important, only that he reclaims his spirit* in making it. Arvis does not even get this much dignity (even though giving book of naga actually makes the end of his rebellion more effective) His spirit is not redeemed by this action. Especially since fighting Celice's party, he apparently does so using his full ability, undermining the fact that he has aided them at all. It would be more fitting for him to intentionally lose or to injure himself before the fight. 

* Spirit here just refers to personal subconscious mental torment since FE4 doesn't refer to an afterlife directly.

Conclusion- Arvis is weak as an antihero even given the good he does during his first 10 years as emperor, and the motivation that led to his fall as villian isn't particualrly interesting. He's probbably as fondly remembered as he is solely because he does a good job of escalation which honestly doesn't really reflect on strength of charather vs just being part of plot.

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Reality said:

Conclusion- Arvis is weak as an antihero even given the good he does during his first 10 years as emperor, and the motivation that led to his fall as villian isn't particualrly interesting. He's probbably as fondly remembered as he is solely because he does a good job of escalation which honestly doesn't really reflect on strength of charather vs just being part of plot.

I wasn't trying to eulogize Arvis. I was simply correcting some errors another forum goer made, and I will admit I left out part of the details on the Sigurd murder. I'm fine with you disliking him, I once joked about an opera being written about him, but I can very clearly see why someone would dislike him.

Okay, I admit I was painting Arvis in a positive light. But that was only due to how negative (and incorrect) the other poster's portrayal was. I'm not going to defend him ravenously though. He is arguably a complex character and that makes him controversial and hence very divisive. I hereby declare myself Verdane- neutral in the wars of the second generation.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Stephen the Great]

13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But that was only due to how negative (and incorrect) the other poster's portrayal was.

That's true, but you don't have to harp on it so much......

14 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I hereby declare myself Verdane- neutral in the wars of the second generation.

Were they not neutral because there was no centralized government during the II gen.?

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Sigismund of Luxemburg said:

Were they not neutral because there was no centralized government during the II gen.?

Well that is true. They were neutral like Somalia is neutral- not in a good way. I was just trying to be artsy, and unfortunately that was the best I could come up with related to Jugdral.

And sorry about the harping.

[ping]

RE: Navarre archetype: I'd say the common trait shared by them isn't edgy-ness, but rather that they're usually in for their own reasons, not because they're willing to join the lord's righteous quest for world peace and/or preservation or something like that. Nabarl gets recruited because he won't hit a girl, Rutger doesn't care about anything beyond revenge against Bern, Guy joins grudgingly because Matthew calls in a favour, Joshua wants to bang a hot nun, and Zihark wants to support any laguz in any way he can (although he seems to forget that during the desert map). Raven as a character fits the mold pretty well, too, since he is only joining because a) Priscilla asks him and b) he hopes for a opportunity to backstab Hector.

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, Reality said:

He has no reason to give in so completely to hopelessness, even with Julius's ability to teleport and invulnerability, because people without holy blood ARE able to rebel in Issac and Thracia without being magically instantaneously punished. I do not see Book 2 Arvis's passivity as justified as "he knows he can't win against them and is just being rational in order to do the most good"- Part of why that excuse doesn't work is because Julius acts so childishly and Manfloy so incompetently, that they strain our ability to beleive that they could intimidate someone to that extent- But the bigger part of why it doesn't work is because Arvis himself doesn't come off as having a strong character.

Well, I think that's exactly the point. Its not that Alvis is to weak physically to stand up against them but to weak to do so mentally. Its more likely that Arvis is just completely burned out rather then scared of them.

One of Arvis traits is that he really does seem to love his loved once and when we see him again they are all dead. Azelle's dead, Deirdra is dead, Jullius is practically dead and up until meeting her he thought Jullia was dead too. Seems like a valid reason to lose your fire.