Old tempest thread, plz delet

[r_n]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

After the first TT, pretty much all of us extrapolated based on Masked Marth and guessed that the free units would probably be alternate versions of existing characters. Turns out that no such limit existed. With only one reference point, we didn't know much.

I'm not saying all the antagonists are necessarily up for consideration by IS. All I'm saying is that we can't rule them out. That's all "as far as we know" means. We just don't know what criteria are used to pick the final bosses.

Usually when I see that phrase, it's less to say "this thing that didn't happen could happen" and more "based on thing we know, this could happen"

As far as we know, they only give alternate units vs As far as we know, they give any unit kind of thing, you know? Both technically true, but one is more based on something experienced while the other wasn't until we saw the preview images with Tobin.

But whatever, we're both basically saying the same thing and I'm just pedantic. If there's a new villain I could see them showing them just before the banner as an exciting tease so we'll see sooner than later.

[Othin]

5 minutes ago, r_n said:

Usually when I see that phrase, it's less to say "this thing that didn't happen could happen" and more "based on thing we know, this could happen"

As far as we know, they only give alternate units vs As far as we know, they give any unit kind of thing, you know? Both technically true, but one is more based on something experienced while the other wasn't until we saw the preview images with Tobin.

But whatever, we're both basically saying the same thing and I'm just pedantic. If there's a new villain I could see them showing them just before the banner as an exciting tease so we'll see sooner than later.

I'm always happy to join in pedantry.

In this case, the key is the word "could". Before Tobin was revealed, I'd say it would have been perfectly accurate for someone to have said "as far as we know, they could always give alternate units" and also would have been perfectly accurate for someone to have said "as far as we know, they could give any unit". The two both described potential possibilities that could plausibly have been true, based on the information available at the time. Meanwhile, in the present, it could be that antagonists from past games are potential TT bosses, or it could be just Veronica or other units new to Heroes, or it could be any unit at all depending on the story justifications. (For example, for this one, Celica might be an option, depending on their policy.) We don't have enough information to really start ruling out any of those potential policies, so as far as we know, any of them could be true.

If there's a new unit like Berkut as the final boss (which is my guess), they should appear in the 1.5 update in less than a day and a half, so we can find that out then.

[Zeo]

I'm seriously wondering what I should do here... I'm going to have to use Faye one way or another, +DEF/-SPD is so horrible on her though 21 speed is unsalvagable.. so I'm thinking...

1: Brave Bow (not +) + Death Blow 2 + Swordbreaker 2 + Drag Back = Makeshift Offensive Archer. She's nothing special but at least she quads swords this way and can actually do damage to things plus she never wants to be attacked anyway.

2: Default: Fortify Def + Rally Speed + + Fortify Res Seal: Now she can buff blade tomes but the issue is the's gimping my main buffer, B!Cordelia who can buff all 4 stats including the ATK that my Tharja and Nino need to OHKO Veronica.

3: Vanilla Faye: Worthless, WORTHLESS. Chip damage with Wings of Mercy, but her ATK is so mediocre she can't even finish things off. Not even an Attack +3 would save her. However, she wouldn't be taking resources away from a unit that I'll actually use once these trials are over.

4: Lukas: Runs just got a lot easier, funner and faster. Except I have to do twice as many....

5: Yolo pull from TT Banner (20-40 Orbs): I'm taking orbs away from the Summer banner I actually want to pull from AND risking pulling either a subpar unit (Boey), a useless one (another Faye) or none at all. Best case scenario I get an Alm or a Mae, but it's a crazy risk.

Somebody help me out....

[Rezzy]

12 minutes ago, Zeo said:

I'm seriously wondering what I should do here... I'm going to have to use Faye one way or another, +DEF/-SPD is so horrible on her though 21 speed is unsalvagable.. so I'm thinking...

1: Brave Bow (not +) + Death Blow 2 + Swordbreaker 2 + Drag Back = Makeshift Offensive Archer. She's nothing special but at least she quads swords this way and can actually do damage to things plus she never wants to be attacked anyway.

2: Default: Fortify Def + Rally Speed + + Fortify Res Seal: Now she can buff blade tomes but the issue is the's gimping my main buffer, B!Cordelia who can buff all 4 stats including the ATK that my Tharja and Nino need to OHKO Veronica.

3: Vanilla Faye: Worthless, WORTHLESS. Chip damage with Wings of Mercy, but her ATK is so mediocre she can't even finish things off. Not even an Attack +3 would save her. However, she wouldn't be taking resources away from a unit that I'll actually use once these trials are over.

4: Lukas: Runs just got a lot easier, funner and faster. Except I have to do twice as many....

5: Yolo pull from TT Banner (20-40 Orbs): I'm taking orbs away from the Summer banner I actually want to pull from AND risking pulling either a subpar unit (Boey), a useless one (another Faye) or none at all. Best case scenario I get an Alm or a Mae, but it's a crazy risk.

Somebody help me out....

If you want to get a TT Banner unit, but don't want Boey or Faye, just Pull from Reds or Blues, that way you have a better chance of getting one you want.  Of course, there's times when the colors you want don't show up, but that way you can minimize your risk.  I was just thinking earlier, that since each Banner unit has a different color, it will be easier to get the one you want without another unit getting in the way.

Conversely, you can field Faye and just surrender right away.  That way you get the Bonus, and can field a better team.  If it's like last time, Speed matters a lot more than Survival.

[Zeo]

8 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

If you want to get a TT Banner unit, but don't want Boey or Faye, just Pull from Reds or Blues, that way you have a better chance of getting one you want.  Of course, there's times when the colors you want don't show up, but that way you can minimize your risk.  I was just thinking earlier, that since each Banner unit has a different color, it will be easier to get the one you want without another unit getting in the way.

Conversely, you can field Faye and just surrender right away.  That way you get the Bonus, and can field a better team.  If it's like last time, Speed matters a lot more than Survival.

Sniping, I thought about that, but that policy irks me. Not only has it never worked, but that Green or Colorless you don't pull could be a Hector or Jaffar/Klein, something like that. Plus I'm taking orbs away from the summer banner. Honestly I can really just pull greens too, Boey isn't that bad. Just kinda irritates me, the thought of it.

Fielding Faye and surrendering seems like the way to go, but then I'm probably getting A/C's at best which sucks. When the VG Reward orbs come in I'll have enough for a full pull. We'll see what happens then, if nothing is worth my while I may just make Faye work. We may come into a fair bit of orbs with all the new modes, but blowing them on a banner of mediocre characters is something I'm not even the least bit interested in doing.

[LuxSpes]

I think I'm gonna try using Faye/Katarina/S!Robin/Fae as my starting team and have my starting team and second team from the previous gauntlet(respectively Lucina/Lukas/Sanaki/Julia and Ryoma/Nino/Linde/Azura) serving as the main back-up teams.

[Clogon]

2 hours ago, wizzard of soz said:

i also have a -Spd Mae, though she is 5*. last TT i used a -Spd Tharja (31 spd) and she did fantastic, with no speed buffs to speak of. with a speed buff and one person standing beside her, your Mae will have 31 speed, then give her Darting Blow for 37 spd (38 spd if you give her +Spd seal). if you upgrade her to 5* it'd be 41 spd! not too bad ;-;

that's my plan for my Mae i guess, though i think i'm going to upgrade my +Atk Klein to 5* for faster and more reliable sweeping..

I used a -Speed Tharja last TT too but there are big differences between her and Mae. The later is going to be used against the fastest colour in the game (Red) so 37 speed when buffed is nothing when almost every sword user has over 30 (neutral speed) + 2~4 (from lunatic boost). I could give her Sword breaker to ensure the kill on swordies but she will then be a one trick pony instead of Lancer Breaker to help deal with Blues too. Either way, I lose Desperation (she is slow enough to not miss it).

Axes users are slow. The fast ones have Brave Axe so only Minerva has high speed but LAD reduces her RES to the point of OHKO with the -Blade Tome. I could replace Mae's weapon for a -Blade tome but that will reduce her SPD even more.

Thank you for bringing up this comparison vs Tharja! It gives me a lot more options.

1) sac Fred+Gaius for Nino buff bot

2) sac Florina+Sully/Author

I will most likely sac an Odin for -Blade tome and Moonbow. Cause the higher damage to kill faster over shadows the extra stats.

 

The good thing about her is that she can deal with Ike and Ryoma a lot easier than Tharja. My team for this TT will probably be Olivia, Mae, Green, and Healer. My Green unit will most likely be Cherche or Camilla since a flying reposition unit is OP. :)

[Alkaid]

6 hours ago, Alexmender said:

Actually your Alm seems pretty good for the Falchion healer build, but maybe you should use Reciprocal Aid instead of Ardent Sacrifice. Ardent Sacrifice lends itself better if you want to reach a HP threshold to activate certain skills like Desperation or Brash Assault while Reciprocal Aid focuses on healing the other unit at the expense of your health. 

Alm sadly is very meh in comparison to the other Falchion users so it's better to not invest too heavily on him unless you really like him. Something like Fury 2 (Bartre, Jeigan), Renewal 2 (Lissa, Jakob), any spur/hone/fortify you have to spare, Reciprocal Aid (Donnel) and Draconic Aura will last you for the whole trials. He'll be pretty tanky and will take out any troublesome greens if need arises but his main role will be of a healer instead of a combat unit.

Yeah, I suppose I could try Reciprocal Aid. I'd forgotten it'd only cost me a Donnel to try it out. I've usually not considered it since it just feels a bit of a risky strategy to use, but maybe it'll work out. It's a shame he's so lackluster, but I'm only using him since he's a bonus unit anyway. I get the feeling he's gonna be really sad as my red unit compared to my Tharja I blew through the last Tempest with.

[Kaden]

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

1: Brave Bow (not +) + Death Blow 2 + Swordbreaker 2 + Drag Back = Makeshift Offensive Archer. She's nothing special but at least she quads swords this way and can actually do damage to things plus she never wants to be attacked anyway.

The sad part is Gordin by default would be a better Brave Bow archer. Unfortunately, his resistance relative to Faye's defense sucks since he isn't a trainee or villager unit with extra BST. Then again, he has 1 more base attack by default and he gets a bit more attack with Bonfire and Ignis than Faye does with Iceberg and Glacies. That said, it's probably the best build to make her good for offense.

Also, do you mean Draw Back? Drag Back is a B-skill exclusive to melee units.

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

3: Vanilla Faye: Worthless, WORTHLESS. Chip damage with Wings of Mercy, but her ATK is so mediocre she can't even finish things off. Not even an Attack +3 would save her. However, she wouldn't be taking resources away from a unit that I'll actually use once these trials are over.

It's more of her speed rather than her attack which also affects any other bow she's going to use. 25 base speed isn't that great when you consider that summer Gaius who has the same base attack as her, but 8 more speed would be able to double with Firesweep Bow meaning his chip damage is stronger and potentially deadly. +Atk Setsuna and bride Cordelia are also strong users of Firesweep Bow+. Enemy Faye with her boosted stats, however...

Anyway, if you want her to be a better chip damage archer, give her Poison Strike for more damage or give her a seal or something like Renewal. Since she probably won't be taking damage from counterattacks because of Firesweep, you could give her Renewal and Ardent Sacrifice or Reciprocal Aid to make her a back-up healer. Breath of Life and a Breath of Life seal would help too since she'd attack, take no damage because Firesweep negates counterattacks, and she'd heal her allies around her.

There is another build, but I doubt it will survive pass a round of combat without a healer: Killer Bow+, Fury 3, Iceberg, and Quick Riposte. The mage counter build Niles by default can do with the addition of Fury and Quick Riposte and safer too since his speed is much higher than Faye preventing him from getting doubled and dying despite her high resistance. Rebecca and if you wanted, but it's risky because of his low HP, summer Gaius can run this build too because of their resistance being enough to get good damage from Iceberg and taking hits from mages. Anyway, in arena, this could work well, but in trials, I doubt it would be remotely useful.

Otherwise, go with what Rezzy advised and just surrender with her to get the bonus or try your luck at getting Alm, Boey, or Mae. Boey could be really good to counter physical colorless units if you can afford to get Gronnraven and T-Adept 3 on him. Just be wary about his low resistance and lower speed than the Robins.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Kaden

[Kiran]

Anyone have any way to save my -atk +spd Mae? It doesn't help that she's 4* ;_;

[Anime27Arts]

Whelp I only have Sharena as a bonus unit.... Luckily I leveled her up to a 5* lvl40 so I'll actually be able to use her.  I really hate that I can't seem to pull an echoes character at all... I'm actually ok with Tobin being a sword unit since I promoted him to a dread fighter.  I wish we would have gotten Gray but I'm okay with Tobin.  Hopefully more Echoes characters will be added so that I can have a better chance of pulling one.  That and I really enjoyed the characters. 

[XRay]

23 minutes ago, Kiran said:

Anyone have any way to save my -atk +spd Mae? It doesn't help that she's 4* ;_;

Give her Blárblade and Life and Death.

[Kaden]

58 minutes ago, Kiran said:

Anyone have any way to save my -atk +spd Mae? It doesn't help that she's 4* ;_;

Welcome to my world, except mine's a 5* -- she just decided to show up like this -- and I have a neutral Linde. +Spd, -Atk Mae is basically neutral Celica, Katarina, Soren, and Tharja in offensive stats, but only if she's a 5*. As a 4*, she'd have 31 attack and speed which is the same as 4* Soren and 1 point different from 4* Tharja's 30 attack and 32 speed. Anyway, she's probably closest to Katarina and Soren in that she has good resistance and all right speed to avoid getting doubled. If she were neutral, she'd probably be closer to a +Spd Julia, Lilina, and Sanaki.

The funny thing is that of course a +Atk or +Spd Mae would be better than neutral Mae, but +Spd, -Atk is also better than neutral Mae. It probably comes from her being able to double units she couldn't have before allowing her to close out the kill even though her she has -Atk.

Mae's issue is that Linde exists with arguably the best offensive spread of 35 attack and 36 speed of all the mages, especially infantry ones. +Spd Mae will never be as good as Linde since she'd have 1 more attack, but 2 less speed. -Def would make Mae hilariously frail, 2 less defense than Linde who's already frailer than Mae by default, and -Res would ruin her shtick of having good resistance where in this case, she'd have 1 less resistance than Linde. If Linde is the Cordelia of blue mages or mages in general, then Mae is Est and Hinoka.

Anyway, give her Iceberg or Glacies if you stick with her default tome or you want to give her Blarraven and T-Adept to nuke colorless units -- would have been better if she had =Atk to nuke like Lilina and Sanaki. If you go with Blarblade, then Draconic Aura or Moonbow since she's likely to kill everything to begin with and DA would take into account her higher attack while Moonbow would activate sooner, but eh, I'd rather have the higher damage boost from DA.

A -breaker skill can help too since if you're not to sure about using Desperation with her. Mae not having Darting Blow or even Speed +3 doesn't help, but Blarowl can boost her speed. Also, give her a different C-skill since B Tome Experience is pretty useless.

Personally, I'd stick with her default tome or give her Blarraven. Blarblade works, but there are better users of it out there. Ursula is freely available as a GHB unit and has access to cavalry buffs and Linde existing creates a situation where your other options are strictly inferior unlike red mages where nobody even has 35 neutral attack and speed -- there isn't even a red mage with Nino's speed -- or green mages where it's only really Nino and Soren for infantry with Nino having a -blade tome by default and spring Camilla and Cecilia benefit from team builds so they have their own niches. Neutral 5* Mae with Blarblade+ and +3 attack and +4 speed from Eirika would only slightly edge out a 5* Reinhardt with Death Blow 3. +Spd, -Atk is only slightly better and a +Atk Reinhardt would crush her. Neutral, default Linde with one Hone Attack 3 edges out neutral Mae and equals a +Spd, -Atk Mae with Blarblade+ and +3 attack and +4 speed.

It would be rough to position all the time, but if you can get at least 2 units to stand near her and they have Hone Attack 3 and Hone Speed 3, +Spd, -Atk Mae can get comparable results as a Blarblade+ Mae with +3 attack and +4 speed and it's much cheaper. Eirika standing next to her after buffing her can get decent results too. Just not as good as with Blarblade.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Kaden

[a bear]

PSA: 140 runs (10 a day for two weeks) on Hard 5 with an A in Speed, B in Survival, and a 20% bonus unit (Sharena) is enough to get 50k before the event ends. 6 runs a day doing this nets you the 5* Tobin. You won't need to use any stamina potions, and you'll still get SP at level 40 for kills.

For Normal 3, it'd take about 269 runs (19.2 a day) for 50k, 162 runs (11.5 a day) for 30k. 50k requires using about 14 stamina potions, more if you're unable to prevent stamina overflow. 30k requires no potions.

Worth considering for anyone struggling to score well or simply sick of Tempest.

[bethany81707]

5 minutes ago, a bear said:

PSA: 140 runs (10 a day for two weeks) on Hard 5 with an A in Speed, B in Survival, and a 20% bonus unit (Sharena) is enough to get 50k before the event ends. 6 runs a day doing this nets you the 5* Tobin. You won't need to use any stamina potions, and you'll still get SP at level 40 for kills.

For Normal 3, it'd take about 269 runs (19.2 a day) for 50k, 162 runs (11.5 a day) for 30k. 50k requires using about 14 stamina potions, more if you're unable to prevent stamina overflow. 30k requires no potions.

Worth considering for anyone struggling to score well or simply sick of Tempest.

Ah, interesting. I should be able to use Alm for a greater bonus, but that may be balanced by poorer speed average.

I'm probably going to wind up using potions anyway for impatience, but good to know it'll be because I'm bad at planning.

[a bear]

@phineas81707 Wiki sez you have 28 turns between all rounds to get an A in speed (not counting fights where your team is defeated). 5 or 6 turns for Hard, 9 for Normal.

What's your target score?

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, a bear said:

@phineas81707 Wiki sez you have 28 turns between all rounds to get an A in speed (not counting fights where your team is defeated). 5 or 6 turns for Hard, 9 for Normal.

What's your target score?

50K if it's not Quickened Pulse, 30K if it is.

Assuming the same reward tiers are used this time.

[a bear]

Should be based on the Tobin picture. Anyway, having a level 40 Alm should chop off like 1/6 of the times listed.

Normal: 9.5 daily for Tobin, 15.8 daily for QP

Hard 5: 4.9 daily for Tobin, 8.1 daily for QP, 16.2 for 100k orb bonanza

edit: I'm assuming in these cases you'd be capable of getting A/A ranks, which you'll get unless you play Ultra Turtle

Edited July 4, 2017 by a bear

[bethany81707]

3 minutes ago, a bear said:

Hard 5: 4.9 daily for Tobin, 8.1 daily for QP, 16.2 for 100k orb bonanza

So, basically, if I can consistently manage good scores, I can get Tobin just by playing every morning.

I'm probably not going to do non-Tempest things until I'm statisfied with my rewards again, but I'm also not likely to try potions again.

Also, if I was confident coding, I'd probably some way to automate these calculations. Say, "A Speed, B Survival, 40% Bonus, Hard Difficulty, Tobin Goal". Like that spreadsheet, except you can do suboptimal runs as well.

[Zeo]

2 hours ago, Kaden said:

The sad part is Gordin by default would be a better Brave Bow archer. Unfortunately, his resistance relative to Faye's defense sucks since he isn't a trainee or villager unit with extra BST. Then again, he has 1 more base attack by default and he gets a bit more attack with Bonfire and Ignis than Faye does with Iceberg and Glacies. That said, it's probably the best build to make her good for offense.

Also, do you mean Draw Back? Drag Back is a B-skill exclusive to melee units.

It's more of her speed rather than her attack which also affects any other bow she's going to use. 25 base speed isn't that great when you consider that summer Gaius who has the same base attack as her, but 8 more speed would be able to double with Firesweep Bow meaning his chip damage is stronger and potentially deadly. +Atk Setsuna and bride Cordelia are also strong users of Firesweep Bow+. Enemy Faye with her boosted stats, however...

Anyway, if you want her to be a better chip damage archer, give her Poison Strike for more damage or give her a seal or something like Renewal. Since she probably won't be taking damage from counterattacks because of Firesweep, you could give her Renewal and Ardent Sacrifice or Reciprocal Aid to make her a back-up healer. Breath of Life and a Breath of Life seal would help too since she'd attack, take no damage because Firesweep negates counterattacks, and she'd heal her allies around her.

There is another build, but I doubt it will survive pass a round of combat without a healer: Killer Bow+, Fury 3, Iceberg, and Quick Riposte. The mage counter build Niles by default can do with the addition of Fury and Quick Riposte and safer too since his speed is much higher than Faye preventing him from getting doubled and dying despite her high resistance. Rebecca and if you wanted, but it's risky because of his low HP, summer Gaius can run this build too because of their resistance being enough to get good damage from Iceberg and taking hits from mages. Anyway, in arena, this could work well, but in trials, I doubt it would be remotely useful.

Otherwise, go with what Rezzy advised and just surrender with her to get the bonus or try your luck at getting Alm, Boey, or Mae. Boey could be really good to counter physical colorless units if you can afford to get Gronnraven and T-Adept 3 on him. Just be wary about his low resistance and lower speed than the Robins.

Red: I did mean Draw Back.

Blue: That's the biggest reason why Faye annoyed me, initially I was going to give B!Cordelia Firesweep Bow+ but Brave Bow is so ridiculous I had to invest in it. But yes, Faye is a terrible user for it honestly, +SPD and Darting Blow 3 might be able to make some things happen with 34 Speed, but it's nothing special still.

Poison Strike is a pretty good idea, plus two *4 Clarisses are sitting around that I'll never use so it's at virtually no cost. Renewal 2 is also a good idea since I can just feed her a Lissa and Matthew to give her Resp. Aid and Hone Speed 2 and she can be a buff healer. I kind of wish I had a way to make WoM work but keeping units healthy is better in a mode where you want to OHKO as a rule and that 10 damage is pretty huge on those high HP units.

Green: The idea of the build is pretty cool. But all those resources are wasted on Faye imo and even if they can make units like Niles and Rebecca decent, it's pointless when you have the 2 best Archers in the game already.

Black: It wouldn't be Raven+ or TA3, only TA2 and Raven, but we could potentially make it happen. 20 orbs, that's it. I hope those rewards come before the trials start. Time is winding up and I don't have a lot of time to grind SP on Faye if I'm even going to give her anything.

 

[a bear]

38 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

So, basically, if I can consistently manage good scores, I can get Tobin just by playing every morning.

I'm probably not going to do non-Tempest things until I'm statisfied with my rewards again, but I'm also not likely to try potions again.

Also, if I was confident coding, I'd probably some way to automate these calculations. Say, "A Speed, B Survival, 40% Bonus, Hard Difficulty, Tobin Goal". Like that spreadsheet, except you can do suboptimal runs as well.

That's actually what I did, I guess I could make it into a spreadsheet online. Also you'd get 422 doing it that way, although I'm sure you can get A/A with Alm to bump it up to 441.

[Korath88]

For this round of tempest trials, I kinda want to build a Falchion healer set for my Alm, but my only source of renewal is my 5* Boey, since Fae refuses to show up. 

Granted, Boey hasn't been very useful at all, and I'm promoting Nino soon which invalidates his role as my only green mage, but I'm still conflicted as to whether I want to sacrifice a 5*.

Should I do it?

[Alkaid]

44 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

For this round of tempest trials, I kinda want to build a Falchion healer set for my Alm, but my only source of renewal is my 5* Boey, since Fae refuses to show up. 

Granted, Boey hasn't been very useful at all, and I'm promoting Nino soon which invalidates his role as my only green mage, but I'm still conflicted as to whether I want to sacrifice a 5*.

Should I do it?

How about level up one of the free Lissa's to 4* and give him Renewal 2 from that? I had an extra 5* Fae I wasn't doing anything with so I used her, but I don't think I would have gotten rid of a 5* if that was the only one I had.

[Korath88]

5 minutes ago, Alkaid said:

How about level up one of the free Lissa's to 4* and give him Renewal 2 from that? I had an extra 5* Fae I wasn't doing anything with so I used her, but I don't think I would have gotten rid of a 5* if that was the only one I had.

I used up all my free Lissas for rehabilitate back when SI was first introduced. That's why I said Boey is my only source of renewal currently.

[Alkaid]

14 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

I used up all my free Lissas for rehabilitate back when SI was first introduced. That's why I said Boey is my only source of renewal currently.

It's not uncommon for people to forget about their 1/2* freebies, so I gave it a shot.

If you don't care for Boey anyway and have a Nino coming along then go ahead. Just think if you'd want Earth Boost off of him for something first since he's still the only source for that skill.