General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Kagero's Dart is perfectly in line with her stat spread, though. She boasts the second highest offensive stat spread after Sothe for infantry daggers and the worst defensive stat spread. A weapon that boosts her offensive stats while providing a way to survive combat is exactly what her stat spread wants.

As for "use by players", I think it's fair to say that Poison Dagger ceased to be a meta choice sometime around the weapon refinery update when most other daggers were significantly buffed, and the general lack of usage of infantry units until recently and Poison Dagger's extremely low stats and lack of refine options has pretty much cemented Smoke Dagger, Clorox, Barb Shuriken, Sky Maiougi, and Cloud Maiougi as the only inheritable daggers that actually get used on a consistent basis.

I am actually seeing alot of the "deal bonus damage based on buffs on enemy" daggers in AR. have run a couple of times into it. It basicly shuts down any Supertank strategy at all when you have a precharged Sothe with those daggers lol. Couple that with an Alm and a Sonya that cover all bases and you welp. Cant tank Alm or Sonya without all the buffs, cant apply buffs because of Sothe.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Hilda said:

I am actually seeing alot of the "deal bonus damage based on buffs on enemy" daggers in AR. have run a couple of times into it. It basicly shuts down any Supertank strategy at all when you have a precharged Sothe with those daggers lol. Couple that with an Alm and a Sonya that cover all bases and you welp. Cant tank Alm or Sonya without all the buffs, cant apply buffs because of Sothe.

Just use Drives and weapons with Drive effects. That leaves you a bit more vulnerable to Ophelia, but that's exactly why I prefer Fae over a colorless tank.

Kaden is a god and I wish he'd pity-break me more.

[MrSmokestack]

6 hours ago, Hilda said:

I am actually seeing alot of the "deal bonus damage based on buffs on enemy" daggers in AR. have run a couple of times into it. It basicly shuts down any Supertank strategy at all when you have a precharged Sothe with those daggers lol. Couple that with an Alm and a Sonya that cover all bases and you welp. Cant tank Alm or Sonya without all the buffs, cant apply buffs because of Sothe.

Just use Drives.

Relying on visible buffs is never a good idea because they can be canceled out by Chill and Panic. Unlike Drives you can’t stack them either.

I’ve used Jamke with Corrin for this season of AR and had no problems.

Like Ice said, green is a good color for tanking since common AR threats are blue, but I prefer colorless as it keeps every matchup consistent.

[redlight]

Green is also good because it's an ancient enemy to two very obnoxious units. Inigo was the best green mage for a while because dance and raventome but that's from 2017. I wish null-dazzle was obtainable with a raventome refine.

Edited June 11, 2019 by redlight

[Roflolxp54]

My views on the refines:

Saizo: the best analogy I could immediately think of is Okuyasu and his Stand "The Hand" from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure - Saizo's Star is an excellent weapon on its own but the user (Saizo) himself cannot take full advantage of it due to his horrible Res stat. Plenty good in PvE modes but Saizo's godawful Res stat holds it back in AR where such a dagger would've been expected to shine.

Elincia: no refine is going to fix the fact that Elincia has availability issues being a red book-1 5*-exclusive unit. Pretty boring and it doesn't help that I don't use Elincia much at all nowadays due to her being -Spd and being dependent on having the Atk asset. If I had to choose from her, Hana, and Eliwood, I'll definitely pick Hana first (and I did refine Hana's Katana).

Oscar: not a bad refine but it's not amazing, either. Boring but practical. Stacks nicely with Ward or Goad Cavalry and a Drive seal. As a combat unit though, he's not really any better than Peri in being a Galeforce melee cavalier.

Kagero: pretty good refine. Can easily work well in ensuring ease of entering into Desperation range or being a potentially huge nuisance on AR defense.

[Kaden]

So, a very stupid idea for Virion. This should probably be a unique refinement, but it could work as a base effect too: "At start of combat, grants Res = 50% of unit's Def during combat. Calculates stat bonus without bonuses (from skills such as Fortify, Rally, etc.) or penalties from skills like Panic or Threaten."

By default, =Def Virion would get Res+13 from his 26 Def giving him an even 26/26 defenses during combat. With his 46 neutral HP, that's 72 total or 49x2 total mixed bulk. At +10, he'd get Res+15 from his 30 Def giving him 30/32 defenses. Yes, a +10 Virion with this wacky, likely to not happen effect on his soon to be gotten personal bow would have higher resistance than defense. Fully merged, he'd have 50 HP and his bulk would be 80 total or 55x2 physical bulk and 82 total or 57x2 magical bulk.

The checks are there to keep it grounded which may or not be needed. For one, it could scale tremendously e.g. Virion with 40 Def would get Res+20 and paired with a resistance boosting legendary or mythic hero, he could have ridiculously high resistance. At the same time, it's Virion and it's during combat, so AoE specials from mages will destroy him.

What brought about this madness? I think I had this idea in the back of my head, but didn't think much of it until Mirror Impact was introduced and I wondered who would really want it. After that, I joked to myself that maybe Virion is going to end up with a bow that increases his resistance in a way like Flora's Hoarfrost Knife does against Distant Counter units. That lead to this where Virion somehow ending up with mixed defenses and with his high HP would be pretty amusing.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Luke, Roderick, Raigh, and Matthew confirmed for the next batch. All hype, though I feel like Rody was doing alright with natural access to Firesweep lance. Hope it's just a better version of that, but it'll probably be a mirror of Rody's which could be another situational Brave sword like the other christmas cavs.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Glennstavos

[Hilda]

2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Luke, Roderick, Raigh, and Matthew confirmed for the next batch. All hype, though I feel like Rody was doing alright with natural access to Firesweep lance. Hope it's just a better version of that, but it'll probably be a mirror of Rody's which could be another situational Brave sword like the other christmas cavs.

and again the healers are neglected ._. when will Azama get his personal stave!!!

[NegativeExponents-]

Raigh and Matthew hype!

I'm actually not sure what to expect for Raigh but I hope Matt gets something like Saizo did or Peshkatz with a built in firesweep like Veronica.

4 minutes ago, Hilda said:

and again the healers are neglected ._. when will Azama get his personal stave!!!

Hopefully never. The hex rod should rot in hell.

[redlight]

I hope Raigh will be budget Micaiah

[Stroud]

I know that Raigh gets a refine is a really nice thing.
But do I have some kind of unlucky hands for some merged characters. xD Athena and Selena are still waiting... same with Beruka.

[Vicious Sal]

I hope Roderick could have a stronger firesweep lance with built in Null C disrupt. Being able to counter on EP while not being able to get countered on PP.

[Humanoid]

Just in time to potentially powercreep the Oscar I'll finish merging next month of course. Matthew is the only one that might be of interest to me, though it's unlikely due to his statline.

[Jingle Jangle]

Raigh doesn't get apocalypse for his refine. I wonder would will then?

[Anacybele]

Why is Raigh getting something called Hermit's Tome when, you know, Canas exists? I mean, Niime is HIS mother, right? If anything, shouldn't Canas get this too?

Glad Luke and Roderick are getting something though! And I feel like I got that free Luke fairly recently for a reason now. XD And he's got great IVs on top of that. Still need to upgrade a Roderick someday though.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Anacybele

[Kaden]

14 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Why is Raigh getting something called Hermit's Tome when, you know, Canas exists? I mean, Niime is HIS mother, right? If anything, shouldn't Canas get this too? 

Canas and Raigh have almost the same stat spread where the differences are that Canas isn't summonable, but Raigh is and Raigh has less BST than Canas. They would compete with each other and it's not like masked Marth and Lucina where they're the same person and masked Marth is more or less a glorified neutral Lucina.

Another thing is that people figure Canas should have had the Gespenst or Luna tome considering his art where his tome looks like one of them -- I think it was Gespenst.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Kaden

[Michelaar]

I'm doing a Roderick merge project so i'm quite hopeful it's something nice, similar to his Firesweep Lance.

[Anacybele]

10 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Canas and Raigh have almost the same stat spread where the differences are that Canas isn't summonable, but Raigh is and Raigh has less BST than Canas. They would compete with each other and it's not like masked Marth and Lucina where they're the same person and masked Marth is more or less a glorified neutral Lucina.

Another thing is that people figure Canas should have had the Gespenst or Luna tome considering his art where his tome looks like one of them -- I think it was Gespenst.

I...never mentioned anything about stats though? Just some backstory/lore.

[YotsuMaboroshi]

22 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Why is Raigh getting something called Hermit's Tome when, you know, Canas exists? I mean, Niime is HIS mother, right? If anything, shouldn't Canas get this too?

Niime gave Raigh a tome to study in their support conversations in FE6.  Presumably the Hermit's Tome is supposed to be that tome.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

Niime gave Raigh a tome to study in their support conversations in FE6.  Presumably the Hermit's Tome is supposed to be that tome.

Oh, I see then. That makes sense.

[Kaden]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I...never mentioned anything about stats though? Just some backstory/lore.

I know. I'm just guessing other reasons why the developers might not have wanted to give Canas and Raigh the same tome.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Kaden said:

I know. I'm just guessing other reasons why the developers might not have wanted to give Canas and Raigh the same tome.

Oh okay. That's fine then.

[redlight]

Some theorycrafting/predictions

Hermit's Tome (14 Mt): Effective against armored and cavalry foes. At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-2 on nearest foes within 3 spaces through their next actions. 
Refinement: If unit has weapon-triangle advantage, neutralizes status effects and unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Spy's Dagger (14 Mt): Adds total bonuses on foe to damage dealt during combat. After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Def/Res-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions.
Refinement: Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+X (Calculates X based on number of foes with bonuses withing 2 spaces of unit: 3 foes grants +6; 2 foes grants +4; 1 foe grants +2.)

Rowdy Sword (11 Mt): Inflicts Spd-5. Unit attacks twice.
Refinement: If foes has status effect, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Steady Lance (16 Mt:) Unit and enemies cannot use counterattacks.
Refinement: Grants Atk/Spd+5. Inflicts Def/Res-5.

[NegativeExponents-]

If anyone gets Apocalypse I hope it's Niime. She kinda has to be the one to get it considering she's the only Dark Mage left who can possibly use it.

[Troykv]

29 minutes ago, redlight said:

Some theorycrafting/predictions

Hermit's Tome (14 Mt): Effective against armored and cavalry foes. At start of turn, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/Res-2 on nearest foes within 3 spaces through their next actions. 
Refinement: If unit has weapon-triangle advantage, neutralizes status effects and unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Spy's Dagger (14 Mt): Adds total bonuses on foe to damage dealt during combat. After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Def/Res-7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions.
Refinement: Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+X (Calculates X based on number of foes with bonuses withing 2 spaces of unit: 3 foes grants +6; 2 foes grants +4; 1 foe grants +2.)

Rowdy Sword (11 Mt): Inflicts Spd-5. Unit attacks twice.
Refinement: If foes has status effect, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.

Steady Lance (16 Mt:) Unit and enemies cannot use counterattacks.
Refinement: Grants Atk/Spd+5. Inflicts Def/Res-5.

It would be fun if Hermit's Tome it's like you describe, it would give us another anti green tanks counters, specially to deal with annoying Surtr in AR when we start to get without units that properly counter him.