Othin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 So far, the only times we've seen a unit get access to multiple prfs is when a new version of the base weapon gets introduced on a new unit and then the old one can refine into that. But I could see them start making exceptions at some point, to maintain their ability to improve old units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said: so Dire Thunder needs to get something that is useful for both. Lucina says hi. 6 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said: I liked Sunwoo's idead. A Lull Res is a pretty nice option, since help both. Maybe Lull Atk/Res, or something similar to Olwen's Thunderhead that debuffs foes within 2 spaces. Lull Spd/Res is the best option if they're going to use a Lull skill. Reinhardt doesn't care which Lull it is as long as one of the stats is Res, so the second stat should be Spd since it's the second stat that helps Olwen the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Lucina says hi. Good to know. Say hi to her for me. 5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Lull Spd/Res is the best option if they're going to use a Lull skill. Reinhardt doesn't care which Lull it is as long as one of the stats is Res, so the second stat should be Spd since it's the second stat that helps Olwen the most. Yeah. Spd/Res would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 they could also give Olwen and Reinhardt to different refines, Just like Falchion has different refines depending on the char Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I mean, to make it clear, I'm not afraid of buffing Reinhardt. I think it's perfectly fine given the absolutely ridiculous weapons some of the later characters are coming with (like Larcei, the fuck). But apparently there's an opinion around places that a Dire Thunder refine should benefit only/primarily Olwen and Reinhardt very little. I highly doubt Olwen would get Flashing Blade 4 as a refine anyway ... Caeda and Clair would cry since they only got flashing blade 3. And Olwen's still weighed down by a brave tome. While IS could split Reinhardt and Olwen's refines if they wanted, I don't think it's in the same boat as the Falchions. Chrom/Lucina, Marth, and Alm's Falchions all look distinctively different. Chrom, Lucina, and Masked Marth also share the same weapon refine because their Falchions are the same Falchion, so that also makes me doubt Reinhardt and Olwen will have different refines. Yeah, it's possible they could, I just don't see it's as a Falchion situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Hilda said: they could also give Olwen and Reinhardt to different refines, Just like Falchion has different refines depending on the char Falchion's situation is more complicated than that. The "Archanea Falchion" used by Marth, the "Valentia Falchion" used by Alm, and the "Awakening Falchion" used by Chrom, Lucina, and Masked Marth all have the same name and base effect, but they all look different and therefore had to be classified by the game as different weapons, and the different Falchion refines are split in accordance with that. Dire Thunder doesn't have such a split and doesn't have a way to make one make sense. Edited July 2, 2020 by Othin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilda Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Othin said: Falchion's situation is more complicated than that. The "Archanea Falchion" used by Marth, the "Valentia Falchion" used by Alm, and the "Awakening Falchion" used by Chrom, Lucina, and Masked Marth all have the same name and base effect, but they all look different and therefore had to be classified by the game as different weapons, and the different Falchion refines are split in accordance with that. Dire Thunder doesn't have such a split and doesn't have a way to make one make sense. I am well aware of that, i still think IS will say "fuck it" and make 2 seperate refines. Or they give it this refine: "Unit attack is increased by difference between units base Resistance and Defense during Combat" Olwen gets +10 Atk and Reinhardt only gets +2. Added bonus is both can use then Fortress skills to increase their bulk but not suffer any Attack penalty due to the refine, but depending on their stat spread. Reinhardt could use Fortress to patch up his Res but loose or gain no Attack (due to his stat spread) or he could could use Fortress Def to gain more phyiscal bulk and gain an additional 2 Attack. Or you could use specific Mythics in AR to further buff them Would make Olwen more a threat and still give some playing grounds for Reinhardt. Edited July 2, 2020 by Hilda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneStar Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Whatever refine Corrin gets, I hope she has some sort of conditional Distant Counter. I don't really have that skill sitting around and until I do I probably won't have a reason to use Gloom Breath over Lightning Breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SockPuppet Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I am all for Dire Thunder getting 2 different refines depending upon if it is Olwen or Rein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 One option for giving a larger benefit to Olwen without seeming to make a point of helping Spd and seeming weird on Reinhardt as a result could be the "Fox" effect of inflicting all stats -4 on the enemy when the user initiates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) I don't see why we need to get a refine that gives the impression of helping Reinhardt out. Lucina didn't get a refine focused on herself when they gave Falchion a refine that was clearly more focused on Chrom. Either way, Lull Spd/Res would be funny on Reinhardt Phantom Spd Windsweep builds because that would totally become a thing (as if it weren't already). Edited July 3, 2020 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I saw some people using Speed Reinhart for cav lines, even a speed related refine could help him. Just not all Reinhart variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) And the refinements are now available: Honestly... I really liked this ones. I wouldn't say Saizo's Star effect is that good on Corrin. Being ranged and able to debuff all stats without the need of C skill and Seal is better. She got the least interesting one. Celica's is very good in my opinion. The same goes for Berkut and Sheena. Edited July 6, 2020 by Diovani Bressan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Pretty solid all around and basically right in line with my predictions. Gloom Breath having only Threaten range is a bit disappointing, but otherwise I have no complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSSKG151 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 I like Celica's and Sheena's refines. It was about what I expected for both of them. Good thing I didn't give Sheena Special Fighter since it looks like she wants Vengeful Fighter now. Need to start looking for Distant Counter fodder for these girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said: And the refinements are now available: Honestly... I really liked this ones. I wouldn't say Saizo's Star effect is that good on Corrin. Being ranged and able to debuff all stats without the need of C skill and Seal is better. She got the least interesting one. Celica's is very good in my opinion. The same goes for Berkut and Sheena. Hmm. I was all for Celica getting a recovery skill as I stated previously, but they've went and done an odd way about it. As people cried for, the HP requirement on her inital effect has been removed, which will probably make the majority happy, but now she's shifted roles so to speak, as she's not a unit you need to keep at full HP, but instead one you want at less than full HP, which means the healing effect is actually detrimental. She's getting a hefty +8 in combat boosts per turn, which is nothing to sneeze at, but I'm still not sure how useful she'd be in practice as you're not going to put Brazen Atk Spd/Desperation on her with that healing effect putting her out of that range. Atk/Spd push maybe? Even Water/Wind sweep wouldn't do as that would keep her at full health. Yeah Atk/Spd push seems the most likely. The healing will offset the damage it provides while not putting her at full health and also maintaining the length of time Atk/Spd push is active. Also it seems they're basing the skill less of Recovery and more Nosferateau, which if they're going to go that route they could have at least given her a conditional Distant Counter. Edited July 6, 2020 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jotari said: Hmm. I was all for Celica getting a recovery skill as I stated previously, but they've went and done an odd way about it. As people cried for, the HP requirement on her inital effect has been removed, which will probably make the majority happy, but now she's shifted roles so to speak, as she's not a unit you need to keep at full HP, but instead one you want at less than full HP, which means the healing effect is actually detrimental. She's getting a hefty +8 in combat boosts per turn, which is nothing to sneeze at, but I'm still not sure how useful she'd be in practice as you're not going to put Brazen Atk Spd/Desperation on her with that healing effect putting her out of that range. Atk/Spd push maybe? Even Water/Wind sweep wouldn't do as that would keep her at full health. Also it seems they're basing the skill less of Recovery and more Nosferateau, which if they're going to go that route they could have at least given her a conditional Distant Counter. Yeah. I liked what they did here... But with that refinement, she is not a Brazen Desperation unit at all. She can't run those skills. Not even Vantage. DC is needed on this girl, that's for sure. Then maybe a Lull skill? Close Call? Null C-Disrupt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 19 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said: Yeah. I liked what they did here... But with that refinement, she is not a Brazen Desperation unit at all. She can't run those skills. Not even Vantage. DC is needed on this girl, that's for sure. Then maybe a Lull skill? Close Call? Null C-Disrupt? She can pass up Brazen in the A slot and run it only in the Sacred Seal slot and have a tier 4 Push for 2 damage after combat, Fury 3 for 3 damage after combat, or Fury 4 for 5 damage after combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 28 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said: Yeah. I liked what they did here... But with that refinement, she is not a Brazen Desperation unit at all. She can't run those skills. Not even Vantage. DC is needed on this girl, that's for sure. Then maybe a Lull skill? Close Call? Null C-Disrupt? Fortunately I already have Distant Counter on her as I long wanted a Celica that I can envision using a sword and magic at the same time, but I still think I'd prefer if her conditional effect gave her Distant Counter in addition to the healing and stat boosts. That might seem crazy on paper but in practise I think it'd make her serviceable instead of underwhelming when compared to some other units. And as I said already, it's clearly Nosferateau based and that's 1-2 range anyway so there's lore precedent for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) PSA for Celica's Refine There is a translation error. The condition is not "If foe initiates combat or if unit's HP < 100% at start of combat". It should be "If unit's HP < 100% or foe's HP < 100% at start of combat". EDIT: Tagging everyone who's commented on it so far. @Jotari @Diovani Bressan @NSSKG151 Edited July 6, 2020 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: PSA for Celica's Refine There is a translation error. The condition is not "If foe initiates combat or if unit's HP < 100% at start of combat". It should be "If unit's HP < 100% or foe's HP < 100% at start of combat". Yeah. I read on Discord that the "enemy phase" part shouldn't be there. I didn't know the "foe's HP" part, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSSKG151 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: PSA for Celica's Refine There is a translation error. The condition is not "If foe initiates combat or if unit's HP < 100% at start of combat". It should be "If unit's HP < 100% or foe's HP < 100% at start of combat". Yeah, I just noticed it being talked about on Reddit. Oh well, getting her own HP below 100% is still easy since she heals during combat and always takes four damage after combat so it is not too much of an issue with me. I also like the Push 4 ideas people mentioned since I conveniently got some fodder for that skill a couple months ago and was wondering who would like using that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: PSA for Celica's Refine There is a translation error. The condition is not "If foe initiates combat or if unit's HP < 100% at start of combat". It should be "If unit's HP < 100% or foe's HP < 100% at start of combat". EDIT: Tagging everyone who's commented on it so far. @Jotari @Diovani Bressan @NSSKG151 Hmm. If the enemy attacks would probably be better as that's full enemy phase activation and she might just end up being an enemy phase unit. Though this does put her in good company with Duma which I sort of love for the lore reasoning. I wonder if that was done purposefully. She could also see some good performance on Kronya teams too. Maybe she should start running Savage Blow on her C slot to make better use of this effect. 12 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said: Oh well, getting her own HP below 100% is still easy since she heals during combat and always takes four damage after combat so it is not too much of an issue with me. That depends on how easily she stands up to the first enemy attack when she starts the match with full HP. If it were enemy phase purely then she could tank the enemy phase and still activate the skill. Though also if were that, then combined with how she's always ending combat without full HP which would basically mean her effect is always activated, so it's probably for the best. Edited July 6, 2020 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jotari said: Maybe she should start running Savage Blow on her C slot to make better use of this effect. I was thinking of using Galeforce + Savage Blow just like with Dimitri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: I was thinking of using Galeforce + Savage Blow just like with Dimitri. Funnily enough I've always run Galeforce on her, not sure why, I think I accidentally promoted a Cordelia once and felt it better to toss it on a character I liked rather than let it hang around (up until now letting it hang around would have been a better decision). She is still missing something to get Galeforce on one turn though. Maybe the Flashing Blade seal could help. Though I have that pretty dedicated to her Brave self. Edited July 6, 2020 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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