General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[bottlegnomes]

Just now, Azure in a Roundabout said:

Well, he can counter Surtr, L!Hector, V!Hector, etc. still.

And hey, some of us need Speed Tactics.

Oh, I'm not dissing Seth. Gem weapons have really grown on me recently. That was in reference to possibly returning to Eliwood over Ares. Though mostly in jest. DM is too fun.

[Jingle Jangle]

I love Tharja refine. With it, she can double more of those annoying enemies in Abyssal maps.

Quote

 

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

Just now, Jingle Jangle said:

I love Tharja refine. With it, she can double more of those annoying enemies in Abyssal maps.

 

Ooh, Anathema. I like that they referenced that.

[bottlegnomes]

@Jingle Jangle What is it?

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, bottlegnomes said:

@Jingle Jangle What is it?

13 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Tharja's new weapon is Raudhrblade as its base without the penalty and "enemies within 2 squares suffer -4 Atk/Spd in combat" as its refine.

[Jingle Jangle]

Just now, bottlegnomes said:

@Jingle Jangle What is it?

A personal bladetome with: Inflicts Atk/Spd 4 on foes within 2 spaces during combat. 

[colossus86]

Quick Thoughts on all the refines:

Nino: Atk wave is an inspired choice for an infantry blade mage (the worst kind of blademage) since combined with other skills (like the opposite Atk wave for example for +6 every turn with no positional requirements) it greatly lessens how situational her effectiveness can be. Also, adding an element of utility to a unit alot of people have high merges on is nice to see for arena purposes. Overall I think this one is very well put together and from a design perspective my favorite.

Eliwood: Really nothing to say here, Eliwood is now better at doing Eliwood things, and as far as just initiating on and murdering a single target I think he's a bit better than Ares. Naturally Ares still has his special spiral shenanigans but I think the two have a better contrast now

Oboro: Objectively there's nothing wrong with this one, especially given Oboro's potential for mixed bulk via super boon, It's just I won't be getting too much use out of it since my Oboro is very spd focused. That being said if you can get a +Res Oboro she's a nice check for those pesky armored dragons

Amelia: Meh, it's not a bad weapon by any means, but it doesn't really alter Amelia's match ups or usage in any way, nor does it change her relation to the other members of her class. She's still just the one who's naturally fast.

Tharja: I appreciate the call back Awakening's Hex and I always appreciate good flavoring on weapons. That being said, this is fine, helps Tharja secure doubles since she's fast but not ultra fast and effectively adds a bit of bulk from the atk debuff.

Hinata: One thing to note is that Hinata has a super boon in Spd and combined with Fury (and maybe some other stuff like Darting Stance seal) you can do some interesting things like what we've seen out of speedy Bartre and Eldigan builds. I do find it interesting that Fury is always the refine and never the base effect (with the exception of Celeca's custom Fury on Ragnarok).

Seth: I'm..., conflicted. Not on making him a support unit since I always saw that as his only path to viability, but that they chose Spd Tactic. The thing is, quite a few units in this game don't value their spd, and unlike other stats it's possible and quite easy sometimes to hit overkill spd. Then you have the factor of Seth being able to pick 3/4 Tactic skills with Spd being mandatory, as opposed to Res being mandatory on Titania. All that being said my love for tactics teams, and need for a 2nd tactics general for AR mean I'll be building a Seth very soon.

Niles: IS must consider Light Brand to be the worst Prf in the game if the first weapon with 3 non free full effects just has it tacked on. That being said it's not like this weapon is broken or anything, Niles is still overly dependent on special activation and the light brand effect flatout doesn't work on some units without team support. Overall he's in a much better place now but it'll be interesting to see what ramifications this has down the line

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by colossus86

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

2 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

Quick Thoughts on all the refines:

Nino: Atk wave is an inspired choice for an infantry blade mage (the worst kind of blademage) since combined with other skills (like the opposite Atk wave for example for +6 every turn with no positional requirements) it greatly lessens how situational her effectiveness can be. Also, adding an element of utility to a unit alot of people have high merges on is nice to see for arena purposes. Overall I think this one is very well put together.

Eliwood: Really nothing to say here, Eliwood is now better at doing Eliwood things, and as far as just initiating on and murdering a single target I think he's a bit better than Ares. Naturally Ares still has his special spiral shenanigans but I think the two have a better contrast now

Oboro: Objectively there's nothing wrong with this one, especially given Oboro's potential for mixed bulk via super boon, It's just I won't be getting too much use out of it since my Oboro is very spd focused. That being said if you can get a +Res Oboro she's a nice check for those pesky armored dragons

Amelia: Meh, it's not a bad weapon by any means, but it doesn't really alter Amelia's match ups or usage in any way, nor does it change her relation to the other members of her class. She's still just the one who's naturally fast.

Tharja: I appreciate the call back Awakening's Hex and I always appreciate good flavoring on weapons. That being said, this is fine, helps Tharja secure doubles since she's fast but not ultra fast and effectively adds a bit of bulk from the atk debuff.

Hinata: One thing to note is that Hinata has a super boon in Spd and combined with Fury (and maybe some other stuff like Darting Stance seal) you can do some interesting things like what we've seen out of speedy Bartre and Eldigan builds. I do find it interesting that Fury is always the refine and never the base effect (with the exception of Celeca's custom Fury on Ragnarok).

Seth: I'm..., conflicted. Not on making his a support unit since I always saw that as his only path to viability, but that they chose Spd Tactic. The thing is, quite a few units in this game don't value their spd, and unlike other stats it's possible and quite easy sometimes to hit overkill spd. Then you have the factor of Seth being able to pick 3/4 Tactic skills with Spd being mandatory, as opposed to Res being mandatory on Titania. All that being said my love for tactics teams, and need for a 2nd tactics general for AR mean I'll be building a Seth very soon.

Niles: IS must consider Light Brand to be the worst Prf in the game if the first weapon with 3 non free full effects just has it tacked on. That being said it's not like this weapon is broken or anything, Niles is still overly dependent on special activation and the light brand effect flatout doesn't work on some units without team support. Overall he's in a much better place now but it'll be interesting to see what ramifications this has down the line

 

Can we have a full list of what they effects are, please?

[Ice Dragon]

Full list:

Seth: Silverbrand
Ruby Sword base, Spd Tactic 3 refine.

Hinata: Hinata's Katana
Sturdy Stance 2 base, Fury 3 refine.

Oboro: Oboro's Spear
Heavy Spear base, Close Def 3 refine.

Amelia: Grado Poleax
Slaying Axe base, "if unit has a bonus or positive status effect, Spd/Def +5 during combat" refine.

Tharja: Tharja's Hex
Raudhrblade base without the penalty, "enemies within 2 squares suffer Atk/Spd -4 during combat" refine.

Nino: Iris's Tome
Gronnblade base without the penalty, Even Atk Wave 3 refine.

Niles: Niles's Bow
Slaying Bow + Shining Bow base, Flashing Blade 3 refine.

Eliwood: Durandal
Death Blow 3 base, Swift Sparrow 2 refine.

[Jave]

Tharja's refine is basically a reverse Drive effect, makes me wonder if we'll be getting those as C-skills in the future.

[bottlegnomes]

Huh, completely missed that last post somehow.

That's pretty sweet. Basically dual phase whatever that blow/stance skill would be for both def and res. And slightly better on top of that since enemy debuffs > self-buffs. She's still not gonna be bulky, but at least she'll have an easier time surviving.

Several of these do open up refinement possibilities for other units. Leif, as mentioned, Julius (Tharja's is similar, but no negative effect and a much stronger secondary, or rather primary I suppose, effect), and green Olwen. Odin was one thing, but Nino's not exactly a slouch in the stats department anyway, even if she is infantry. Still kinda wish Nino could just use Giga Excalibur, but meh.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with these. Might end up building Oboro instead of Lukas, and probably Hinata. His des a bit awkward since Fury counters QR, but that didn't stop them for Bartre and Eldigan, and there are other ways to work with him than just QR specials.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I may actually use Seth and Niles now. 

 

Nino was already strong. A refinable Gronnblade, with a good refine no less, is a bit much. 

 

And Niles has 3 effects. Wut?

Edited February 7, 2019 by Etheus

[RexBolt]

Tharja refine doesn't look as powerful as Odin or Nino but it does look fun to use. I think i will build one.

[bottlegnomes]

6 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

Tharja refine doesn't look as powerful as Odin or Nino but it does look fun to use. I think i will build one.

It may not be able to stack damage as easily as them, but it does effectively give her 38 speed at neutral and an easier time surviving into desperation range.

Amelia's weapon is good, but it seems a bit underwhelming for their token "justify my 5* status." Then again, she was one in much less need of justification seeing as she was essentially already a gen 2 armor.

[Humanoid]

Not a fan of Wave skills because they require more planning than my lazy brain can muster, but when it's essentially free, sure why not? It'd be weird after all to have a +10 Nino but skimp on refining her weapon. Tharja's is nice too, but can't justify spending dew on refining a +1 Tharja when I have a +10 Lilina. Still, Bladetomes are my bag, baby, so any effectively free upgrade to my Blade users is appreciated.

As for the others, there's no one I really use, but I might use his new weapon to finally justify 5-starring my Niles, who has been with me since Day 1.

[colossus86]

2 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Not a fan of Wave skills because they require more planning than my lazy brain can muster, but when it's essentially free, sure why not? It'd be weird after all to have a +10 Nino but skimp on refining her weapon. Tharja's is nice too, but can't justify spending dew on refining a +1 Tharja when I have a +10 Lilina. Still, Bladetomes are my bag, baby, so any effectively free upgrade to my Blade users is appreciated.

As for the others, there's no one I really use, but I might use his new weapon to finally justify 5-starring my Niles, who has been with me since Day 1.

You're in luck, if you can get your hands on the opposite Atk wave it's just +6 every turn, no planning involved

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, colossus86 said:

You're in luck, if you can get your hands on the opposite Atk wave it's just +6 every turn, no planning involved

Now I just need 16 more Ninos to feed the 17 Lokis I pulled on the Legendary banner to.

[Humanoid]

It's a nice thought, but a little too rich for my blood. Not just because it's 5* exclusive, but because those 5* units have other very desirable SI. Hopefully they add it to the 4* pool eventually.

[colossus86]

@Ice Dragon Question regarding Niles' weapon. Is the shining effect based in combat values of Def and Res? i.e. can a unit getting an in combat boost to defense but not Res like sturdy stance actually cause the shinning effect to activate?

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, colossus86 said:

@Ice Dragon Question regarding Niles' weapon. Is the shining effect based in combat values of Def and Res? i.e. can a unit getting an in combat boost to defense but not Res like sturdy stance actually cause the shinning effect to activate?

Yes, just like Heavy Blade, Flashing Blade, etc.

[redlight]

Afer experiencing what support units in FGO (the ones that aren't broken) are capable of, I'll never be a fan of gem + tactics weapons.

Light brand effect is underwhelming. They need to give it a significant boost.

[NegativeExponents-]

Ugh, I’m disappointed with Nile’s refine. That Light Brand effect is one of the worst. Situational 7 damage sucks. Adaptive damage would’ve been so much better or at least Atk/Res bond, Atk/Res solo or Atk/Res brazen since those are practical. I like his Flashing Blade refine but I really wish that was the base effect instead. Oh well, not that it matters since Flashing Blade still helps very little with my current set anyway. At least the CD reduction is still there so I can still go for the spd refine for a slightly better Slaying Bow but man it feels bad.

Eliwood is the other one I was excited for but his refine is also eh. I mean, he literally has the lowest atk of the sword cavs and I feel he’s I’ll suited to the player phase since his speed ain’t that great and can’t reliably one-shot.

The other refines seem decent though. Seth’s is kinda whatever but at least it makes great support.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Eliwood is the other one I was excited for but his refine is also eh. I mean, he literally has the lowest atk of the sword cavs and I feel he’s I’ll suited to the player phase since his speed ain’t that great and can’t reliably one-shot.

Eliwood now has 41/34 offenses compared to Siegbert's 38/39, but Eliwood also comes with Ploy functionality running off of his 32 Res, which allows him to easily close the Spd gap with Spd Ploy and widen the Atk advantage with Def Ploy.

[Kaden]

13 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Eliwood is the other one I was excited for but his refine is also eh. I mean, he literally has the lowest atk of the sword cavs and I feel he’s I’ll suited to the player phase since his speed ain’t that great and can’t reliably one-shot.

Eliwood ties with promoted Eirika and Stahl in attack at 31 neutral base. Eirika's 31/39 offenses are obviously better and Stahl's more of a defensive unit. Stacking attack is not to be underestimated with, though. Before Durandal's refine, a +Atk Eliwood could hit 60 total attack with Death Blow 3; 34 base + 16 Mt Durandal + 4 Durandal's Death Blow 2 + 6 Death Blow 3 = 60. Now, with its base effect being Death Blow 3 and unique refinement being Swift Sparrow 2, a +Atk Eliwood hits 66 total attack and 34 speed. A Hone Cavalry buff would push him to 72 attack and 40 speed and Def Ploy would essentially give him +5 attack.

[NegativeExponents-]

24 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Eliwood now has 41/34 offenses compared to Siegbert's 38/39, but Eliwood also comes with Ploy functionality running off of his 32 Res, which allows him to easily close the Spd gap with Spd Ploy and widen the Atk advantage with Def Ploy.

True I forgot about ploys. Isn’t 32 pretty low for ploy functionality though? Siegbert also has a lead in defense which allows him to take counter attacks better compared to Eliwood.

18 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Eliwood ties with promoted Eirika and Stahl in attack at 31 neutral base. Eirika's 31/39 offenses are obviously better and Stahl's more of a defensive unit. Stacking attack is not to be underestimated with, though. Before Durandal's refine, a +Atk Eliwood could hit 60 total attack with Death Blow 3; 34 base + 16 Mt Durandal + 4 Durandal's Death Blow 2 + 6 Death Blow 3 = 60. Now, with its base effect being Death Blow 3 and unique refinement being Swift Sparrow 2, a +Atk Eliwood hits 66 total attack and 34 speed. A Hone Cavalry buff would push him to 72 attack and 40 speed and Def Ploy would essentially give him +5 attack.

Tying with Stahl isn’t exactly what I or I imagine anyone else would find comforting. Leg!Eirika’s strength comes from a combination of her weapon and Lunar Brace which are extremely good.

Also, 72 atk is great but there’s so many defensive units that go well beyond 72 physical bulk before even accounting for skills and buffs. Raw attack just doesn’t seem all that great with nothing else backing it up.

edit: I do admit that him and his refine are better than I initially thought but I just feel it didn’t do all that much to make him standout compared to others.

Edited February 7, 2019 by NegativeExponents-