Alice in Brexitland Mafia - Game Over

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I think Refa’s been fine for a while. Been active and has been making stuff happen.

[Snike]

I am still rereading; going to drop short bits while I do so

Arcanite on Prims is kind of odd because they flip on him in the course of half an hour. Or well that's what it appears to be. Any thoughts on that?

There's some talk about refa meta: I think wrt that he sounds like when he was playing Nagito in anonydraft. I don't think the whole debate about whether he misread is legitimate as previously mentioned. Let me put it another way: This post was on page 2. Do you really think veteran players as scum would intentionally misrep a post on page 2/ the beginning of the game, when the rest of the game has not arrived for the most part and the distance between the posts is negligible at best? WIFOM, but does that sound reasonable?

How much more likely would it be that scum would see that mistake and try to generate a case off of that? I think that would be more likely.

Aside: Eury's at deadline right now, so be careful on the wagon. Don't forget my extra vote.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

So has everyone who’s voting Eury read Eury in depth? What’s there more than her pushing BBM for not great reasons? I want to believe

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

35 minutes ago, Prims said:

Omega, what do you think of Bard? I remember you mentioned him somewhere but I couldn't tell what you were getting at with it.

The most striking thing Bard has said was his loud declaration that the Refa wagon sucked while everyone else was dogpiling Refa. Like, you know how scum come in and whiteknight the townie getting wagoned or declare them town or whatever? Bard's post looked like that, because I do not see why any townie would have handwaved the Refa wagon/hate so easily at that point in the game. So if Refa is innocent after all, I would not be shocked to discover that Bard is scum due to his behavior towards Refa being a complete outlier to how townies were reacting to Bard. I thought it could indicate that Bard had information that townies are not privy to. I remember saying the slot was trending down by which I mean "I'm feeling worse about this slot as the Day continues." They are probably not scum together due to the strength of Bard's statement; I'm not taking it to the bank 100% but I'd lean them not being partners off that alone.

I've been trying to think of why Refa spoke up against your wagon the way he did. If he town, he got frustrated at what he perceived to be as shitty votes on a player who wasn't scummy. If he's scum, he was doing it for points. But he really didn't have to do the latter. I agree he hasn't been towntelling and is a tough read thus far, and your comment about a bad feeling about Walrein interested me as well.

Prims got wagoned, Refa got wagoned, and I'm nodding with much of what BBM has been saying lately. What a strange D1 and game. 

What are you general feelings on those who wagoned you, like do you think scum took advantage or anything? I know you're scumreading Weapons.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

complete outlier to how townies were reacting to Refa*

Game feels harder than I thought it would by this time. I need more from Walrein and Rapier. Snike too, though that seems to be on its way.

[Snike]

@WeaponsofMassConstruction I'm just getting to eury now for rereading in full, in her first wall under the Refa header, her second point is kind of weird. It's top of page 4,  just under your post, and it's talking about vote purity.

How do I put it, I don't think it's genuine, because she's attacking Refa for not voting BBM when BBM claimed page one and refa made (what I view as) a flippant remark then asked BBM some questions. The way I read it is that she thinks Refa should've voted him immediately on claim if he thought BBM's claim was iffy, for pressure. That doesn't make sense though because then Refa just said he didn't find BBM scummy. So how is that scummy?

Aside: the refa quote in that page was in response to a Shinori-post characterizing it as an attack, which I think is over the top. What do others think about this?

[Percivalé]

I don't like this eury wagon. shinori hasn't flipped yet so I don't know where the suspicion is coming from. I get bad vibes from snike's vote for some reason.

reading arcanite and omega. the game has gotten a bit overwhelming so my thought process is going to be broken

[Percivalé]

I feel a little worse now that I know that there are four nontowns in this game influencing votes. I still don't think eury is mafia but now I guess there's the possibility she could be ITP--not bothering with that though; I'm reading through the posts but she isn't playing to her scum meta from what I remember. that alone wouldn't make me feel so bad about her wagon if it weren't for how fast the wagon built on her.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

9 minutes ago, Snike said:

@WeaponsofMassConstruction I'm just getting to eury now for rereading in full, in her first wall under the Refa header, her second point is kind of weird. It's top of page 4,  just under your post, and it's talking about vote purity.

How do I put it, I don't think it's genuine, because she's attacking Refa for not voting BBM when BBM claimed page one and refa made (what I view as) a flippant remark then asked BBM some questions. The way I read it is that she thinks Refa should've voted him immediately on claim if he thought BBM's claim was iffy, for pressure. That doesn't make sense though because then Refa just said he didn't find BBM scummy. So how is that scummy?

Aside: the refa quote in that page was in response to a Shinori-post characterizing it as an attack, which I think is over the top. What do others think about this?

Hmm, to me it read more as Eury criticizing Refa for that specific bit of mafia theory than saying he should’ve voted BBM, which I don’t think is AI for her. Idk, I just remember her scum meta being less motivated and I haven’t seen that yet. Plus I think her BBM push is at least consistent since she was stressing how the claim could be faked, though I don’t agreee with it still. FWIW, I think I’d agree with the Refa’s logic in that post.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

6 minutes ago, Propeller Knight said:

I feel a little worse now that I know that there are four nontowns in this game influencing votes. I still don't think eury is mafia but now I guess there's the possibility she could be ITP--not bothering with that though; I'm reading through the posts but she isn't playing to her scum meta from what I remember. that alone wouldn't make me feel so bad about her wagon if it weren't for how fast the wagon built on her.

What are the differences between Eury's scum play and what she's doing here? How did you call her town earlier with such confidence? How are you feeling about Prims at the moment?

[Percivalé]

i still think prims is scum

eury is way less motivated when she's scum. i don't agree with her bbm vote but i think it's weird everyone else was arguing over his role earlier and whether or not his role should determine his alignment/how we read him and then eury comes in with her bbm case and suddenly everyone is on eury for it even though i thought we went over role =/= alignment anyway

[Percivalé]

like i said eury could still be ITP--I made that post either before Rapier claimed or before I read his claim, I don't really remember, but eury is the only person I can confidently metaread (the other one being paperblade) and when I read her posts I can usually glean her alignment just off of that, though I know that probably isn't enough to convince everyone else I realize, and it''d be unfair to expect everyone to follow me but I just don't agree w/ the eury wagon

[Percivalé]

20 hours ago, Eurykins said:

I think the bolded statement is something that isn't necessarily true, in a sense. Since it's not uncommon for both scum and town roles to be Goons/Vanillas, having them as actual roles in a rolemad mafia would inadvertently assist in counter-balancing a game without requiring a strong-arming of the scum side to give them a higher advantage. 

This is especially true if BBM's role is legit- in that it's completely garbage due to the lack of solid information actually given. One could say that a simple Numbers role would've offered more insight than his claimed role, since we'd actually have something to know for facts. 

this for example is a good take. 

I think people are misreading eury's heavy rolespec and theoryspec as being scummy and I can't really grasp it

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Might be enough for me, I can flip a coin between Eury and Prims atm.

Eh, fuck it. I'm going to bed, there's bound to be more content with which to analyze Eury with the inevitable quote and wall wars as she engages BBM/Refa. For now, night y'all.

##Vote: Prims

[Snike]

To be fair last time I played I lynched three town in a row and turboed off of a mistake, so my vote isn't known for being accurate. That being said I can't argue with bad vibes.

I can argue with the speed of the wagon. If we ignore it going to 5 since I'm mayor, it went from 1-4  in about the same time as the prims wagon. Not going to go further because I can't argue with meta when I don't remember it.

@ weapons: Let me put it another way: Is that really a fair thing to say? I think in context Refa is pretty clearly saying that he wasn't about to vote BBM on his weird role, but the way   she frames it:

20 hours ago, Eurykins said:

What? Is pressure voting for responses no longer a thing in Mafia games? I don't recall voting having to be purely utilized for purely scum reads- seems pretty odd coming from you, Refa.

(I believe) Implies Refa's dismissing pressure votes as a thing. That's not what's happening there and I have to wonder why.

Like, she almost implies he should be voting a role claim for being weird, rather than perhaps because the claim makes the person look or suspicious. One is scumhunting. The other isn't.

I' might be overanalyzing it but that's how I feel about it.

[Percivalé]

oh fuck I forgot about the mayor thing. fuck.

I'm still reading the thread anyway, I have to get up early tomorrow so I might not be able to finish until after that.

[Percivalé]

omega's vote just now was weird and bad but I haven't read him yet so there's not much else I can say

[Snike]

You should be fine on prims wagon. I'm on eury and not inclined to switch to prims in the least right now.

Re: Omega: I am getting katy perry vibes from the vote roulette these past two pages which is ???, however the thing is I didn't scumread him and I don't know if votecycling like that means obvscum. It sounds like these are his top two wagons so I can see why but I want to read him now after the whole reread.

[BBM]

via I don't think anybody is suspicious of eury for her rolespec about my claim? I'm suspicious of her because she's insistent on saying that I misread things on purpose to mess people's reads up while not giving any evidence for why she thinks I am doing so in this game, just theory on why a hypothetical scum might do so. it's part of a larger context of her looking at things in isolation and calling them scummy without looking at the context surrounding them, like her pushing refa for having filler posts even though it was RVS, or her pushing me for "coasting" by not pressing arcanite more even though arcanite had already talked about everything going on at that time.

i don't think shinori interactions are a large part of the case against her either.

[Percivalé]

reading through eury's posts I don't actually know why they are scumreading me but it's not out of the ordinary. 

Quote

Why is everyone insisting on another name for you dammit. You said early on you wanted to explain why BBM's role makes sense in the context of the game and why you thought he wasn't fakeclaiming. Did you ever get to do that? I don't care much for the explanation itself (see above: WIFOM) but I think it's misleading you talk about how information can be gleaned from BBM's claim and then proceed to do a whole lot of nothing with it.

when I said that, what I meant was I had already posted an explanation lol. this was right around the time shinori shut down rolespec and that was when I responded to him. I think you might have misread my post which is all right but did you find this scummy or what?

I'm scumreading Refa.

[Percivalé]

2 minutes ago, BBM said:

via I don't think anybody is suspicious of eury for her rolespec about my claim? I'm suspicious of her because she's insistent on saying that I misread things on purpose to mess people's reads up while not giving any evidence for why she thinks I am doing so in this game, just theory on why a hypothetical scum might do so. it's part of a larger context of her looking at things in isolation and calling them scummy without looking at the context surrounding them, like her pushing refa for having filler posts even though it was RVS, or her pushing me for "coasting" by not pressing arcanite more even though arcanite had already talked about everything going on at that time.

i guess it's just that she's done this before so it's not bothering me as much as it probably should. for example her being nitpicky over people misreading posts is annoying and I don't agree with it but she has done this before many times WRT being super nitpicky over how people word things and take these nitpicky word things out of larger game context.

[Percivalé]

oh never mind eury is not actually scumreading me, but i'm in that middle group of people for some reason.

[BBM]

omega's switch back to prims is really weird. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he just forgot to post his reasoning in his initial prims vote way back when, so that was fine I think. but then prims made a bunch of other posts, he mentioned that he mostly agreed with prims's scumreads, and he spent most of the past two pages talking about refa/eury- I don't understand why he switched back to prims at all.

i can't actually remember the content inside eury's wallposts as town vs scum much bc my meta used to be that she would just find excuses not to post as scum and not really make any wallposts, so I barely ever even read them because I would just take her to be town as soon as she made wallposts. but then she had a game where she made wallposts as scum and I had to throw that meta out, rip to the 2nd easiest town meta ever (I hope my manix town meta never goes away)

i will say though that this isn't so much her being nitpicky about my wording as her saying I'm scum because my actions have theoretical scum intent rather than showing why actions have actual scum intent with examples as to the lasting negative impact my misreading has had on the game.

[Snike]

It's 2(Pedit:30) am. I'm going onto my phone so I definitely won't be bigposting until later today.  Here's some stuff for now:

Refa responds later saying he doesn't like pressure votes but I think pressure votes are votes in general. How do I put it, why would a townie apply pressure to someone they think is town? I feel like there has to be some level of suspicion for a vote to be prompted (don't give me frustration votes, those don't count in a game sense) from townside.

On Eury/Shinori: I think her tone in addressing him on page 4 is wildly different than the tone on the rest of the page. I think BBM and Refa picked up on this, but on page 7 take a look at the second half of This post. I think that's where I got the Eury and Shinori association from more clearly, since I believe that section is noticeably excited/what I think is defensive about it. NAI about Shinori, IMO.  The stuff on page four is, I now agree, not defending directly,  but it gives me almost a chainsawlike vibe.

I'm going to be honest. It's just shinori's tone that's throwing me off other than the page 2 thing. I think his more recent stuff has been better.

Could we talk about Bard a little more? I think that implication that BBM was intentionally misreading rather than having BBM-level reading skills was ???.  I'm not sure I feel good about this slot.

ok going to bed.

[Percivalé]

at least you still have my town meta bbm ❤

I just find it weird for scum!eury to go through all of this trouble to mudsling you so much and case a player people were generally reading as town and being so gung-ho about it; I can't help but read it as genuine, and this is separate from any meta read I may have for eury--I AM actually reading her posts and not handwaving them as "she's making walls she must be town"

bard's one post up to page 6 is scummy, it's detached and kind of fillery