Alice in Brexitland Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

1 minute ago, Omega. said:

1. This first sentence is unprovable. Prims got wagoned (I'm going from memory here) with like at least 48 hours left in the dayphase; there are MANY things that could have happened to derail the wagon like a better pick coming up. The Prims wagon had Via, me, Weapons, Walrein, and maybe someone else I'm forgetting. I wouldn't lynch Via, myself, or Weapons. Walrein maybe, he looked good at the time but his disappearance has him trending down. I was saying that specifically for what I'd do as scum, I don't know these other guys' metas because I haven't played with them much.

2. Because scum benefit from bad pushes. Scum want to lynch townies. Pushing townies is usually bad. So they'll do it to advance their win condition. And yes, it's obvious BBM is a terrible play and I've already named a few people who should go before him. You have no idea why I have my attitude towards BBM, so coming up with a reason and pushing me is a bad play.

3C. Dude, you are being really surface-level with this. "Coin flip implies chance, and is tonally bad." What? It's an expression. I had two scummy reads and expressed that I was waffling between which one to go first. That's it, you're making this much bigger than it is.

I left out the stuff where there isn't more to say on my part. For the record, I don't really think Shinori is someone I want to lynch today. He looked good earlier; this push is wrong but I usually get one loud person coming at me when I roll town and he could be it here.

1: In the game I'm speaking of Prims came back with the argument of "No way am I getting fucking turbo'd" because it was near the end of the day phase that it happened.  I'm not talking about this game when I speak of that.

2: Scum benefit from bad pushes, town are more likely to make bad pushes.  Majority of games have town making bad pushes on other townies.  So if we are speaking logically wouldn't it be more likely that it's a bad push?  Scum also benefit from no-lynching so what do you have to say to the argument that you are willing to potentially NOT LYNCH this day phase?

3: I know you aren't actually going to leave it to a coin-flip but the post still sounds bad and is partially gut-based imo.  I think you should have someone out of those two people that you would much rather lynch than the other. And stating that you would leave it to a coin-flip implies you're fine with both and it doesn't really matter.  That is scummy to me.  You should 100% be more confident in one read than the other I feel.  But I guess that's also just my opinion.

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, BBM said:

shinori I hate to tell you this but most of your setups have been really scumsided. i'm not sure which multiball game had the scum mayor but if it was the one where one team had the scum persuader, town got fucked by roles/setup harder in that game than in maybe any game ever. i trust sb's game balance more and I trust he wouldn't have scum mayor in 9:(4)

Why does Scum!Mayor make the game scumsided?  If I can just check Snike off the lynch priority for the rest of the game, that's cool, but this confuses me and multiple people have said it.

1 minute ago, Propeller Knight said:

it is fucking stupid but in regards to what you said about "why does town need a lynchproof" why would scum need a lynchproof in 9/4 with a daykill? prims can still be ITP yeah but I'm a lot less confident in him being scum now.

I don't know honestly, this whole situation just bugs me and I can't explain it.  Is the deathproof conditional?  Is Prims faking the role?  Is the end of day kill a limited scum ability or just an SK factional kill (bringing this up because SB had an end of day kill SK in a previous small game, but the SK didn't activate immediately)?  Is Prims' role more likely to be SK or mafia?  Every time I look into this game I feel so lost and don't know where to proceed.  

[Percivalé]

oh yeah fuck you're right I don't know why I was treating the daykill conditions as a hard fact. this is why I'm bad at rolespec. regardless I'm still afraid of a NL on D1. prims could be faking the role and it can be disproved really easily so

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

3 minutes ago, Shinori said:

1: In the game I'm speaking of Prims came back with the argument of "No way am I getting fucking turbo'd" because it was near the end of the day phase that it happened.  I'm not talking about this game when I speak of that.

2: Scum benefit from bad pushes, town are more likely to make bad pushes.  Majority of games have town making bad pushes on other townies.  So if we are speaking logically wouldn't it be more likely that it's a bad push?  Scum also benefit from no-lynching so what do you have to say to the argument that you are willing to potentially NOT LYNCH this day phase?

3: I know you aren't actually going to leave it to a coin-flip but the post still sounds bad and is partially gut-based imo.  I think you should have someone out of those two people that you would much rather lynch than the other. And stating that you would leave it to a coin-flip implies you're fine with both and it doesn't really matter.  That is scummy to me.  You should 100% be more confident in one read than the other I feel.  But I guess that's also just my opinion.

1. Ok.

2. Town are likelier to make bad pushes, but scum HAVE to make bad pushes. I'm saying that Eury's push is ESPECIALLY bad, because she, out of everyone else in the game, was the only to suggest a BBM lynch. So I either have to say "Town making a bad push, and she's the only one doing so" or "She's scum, because most of us agree BBM is a horrible play." The latter is likelier to me. That said, if you have some information/experience with Eury that you think is relevant to reading her properly, what is it? As for potentially no lynching, well, we either have to throw our hands up leaving Prims alone and seeing what happens in this game to potentially kill Prims in other ways or we just do it twice. In general, I'm in favor of making a decision to put things in their own hands than leaving things to chance.

3. I get where you're coming from, but I don't think one has to be super confident over one scumread over the other on D1 with 4 scum running around, and this ignores the fact that I put more thought into the two and came out with confidence on Prims. Though if you're saying I should be super confident on one scum read over another at any point in the game, I think that's rather extreme and unreasonable, and generally not how townies are.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

2 minutes ago, Refa said:

Why does Scum!Mayor make the game scumsided?  If I can just check Snike off the lynch priority for the rest of the game, that's cool, but this confuses me and multiple people have said it.

Basically it makes the scum win con achievable a day earlier, with an element of surprise too.

Not sure what to think on Omega, have liked his tone throughout, but haven't examined his posts very closely. I'm not really about the reading life rn, so I'll look into Shinori's case and decide later. I'd just rather lynch Bard today. I've been townreading Snike more all game since I've seen what looks like a consistent thought process, and just being mayor doesn't make him a priority imo.

##Unvote

##Vote: Bard

to see if we can pick up steam.

[Shinori]

Scum don't HAVE to make bad pushes.  Especially if there is potentially another scum team or a third party,  This is also why third party hunting so much is scummy imo because it's something scum might be more inclined to do.  Scum also don't have to make bad pushes because they can potentially piggy-back off of other people's good pushes or they make pushes against town for good reasons: This is a bad push for town but overall from the outside LOOKS like a good push.  As for reading Eury, I'm more or less waiting for her next post.  She generally spends literally hours typing massive ones and I've heard nothing but her typing for a while.  I still don't think the BBM push was all that bad personally nor do I feel you should be seemingly righting him off as what appears to be conf town in your eyes.

Let me ask you a question WRT Prims' claim.  Do you think he's lying?  If yes I can understand still wanting to lynch him, if no why do you want to kill him twice?

If we lynch and it's proven that he is a 1 shot deathproof and no lynch happens how would that affect your read?  Because it sounds like no matter what you still just want to lynch him again tomorrow which is weird.  Especially since he stated he get's a new ability when his 1x deathproof is used.  Why would Scum!Prims tell us that he gets an extra ability when his deathproof is gone?  That would be something Scum!Prims wouldn't want to tell town and something town!Prims would.

[Iris]

Day 1.8 - Votals
Eurykins (5): Refa, BBM, Snike, Prims
Prims (2): Walrein, Omega
Omega (2): Shinori, Via
Bard (1): Weapons
BBM (1): Eurykins
Refa (1): Arcanite
Shinori (1): Bard

Not Voting: Rapier

You have ~21 hours left in the day.  With 13 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 9 to hammer.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Iris

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

##Vote: Bard

I'm down with this, will go Eury or Prims too, but yeah, I like putting some heat here.

[Shinori]

At the current moment I would vote Bard > Eury.  This could be changed depending on whatever Eury posts but I would rather not lynch Eury at the moment.

Still think people should hop on the Omega wagon.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

When I say scum have to make bad pushes, I generally mean participation in shitty mislynches, not just strictly creating unique pushes on town. But anyways, why argue theory? If Eury is scum, she IS making a bad push which is what we're arguing here. Now, you may not think the BBM push was bad, but I named 4 people off the top of my head I'd rather go before him just now. So from my eyes, it's bad. I don't have BBM as conftown, he's just nowhere near a priority or worth putting effort into digging into more, we have nulls and nullscums to press.

I don't think Prims is lying actually. I'm not one to clear people off of claims outside of like masons. Also, the deathproof thing just looks worse. Towns usually have docs. So either town has a doc AND a deathproof player (fucking weird), Prims is town's de facto protective (fucking weird) or Prims is just scum. And no, I'm not saying I'm just going to come into D2 and say let's lynch Prims, there's many things that can happen in the meantime. This is like when Refa speculated that I might push him as ITP for the rest of the game; you guys are assuming I'm going to do X or Y before enough time has even passed with which to make a judgement.

That said, your point with regards to Scum!Prims not needing to talk about an extra ability, eh, I dunno. He said it's a shitty ability, so he could just say that regardless of alignment.

[Shinori]

Okay I can understand that first part a lot better now at least.  It makes more sense.

Second paragraph is also fine I guess, no reason for me to really argue here that much.

Saying it's a shitty ability is WIFOM and I don't think factors into it.  I guess just claiming the fact that he has an extra ability perioud is also WIFOM but cemantics I guess.  As town he would be inclined to say that he has some other role but if it's a good one he wouldn't want scum to know about it, especially if he ends up losing his DPV in the process, so he would imply it's not that good.  And as scum the more information you keep from town the better so either way there isn't a reason for him to pigeon hole himself into a corner with his claim.  Overall I don't want to lynch Prims today.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 hour ago, Propeller Knight said:

I guess you can argue if there's a hostile ITP then scum having a deathproof is helpful but the fact that it's ALSO a lynchproof is what turns me away from thinking it's a scum role and yes I know I hate scumhunting purely off rolespec but I'm going with my gut because nothing else has been helping me

What about the property of it being lynchproof in addition to bulletproof makes you think that lessens its chance of being scum?

[Eurykins]

Spoiler

Propeller Knight

20 hours ago, Propeller Knight said:

to clarify: I voted Prims because his scumhunting doesn't come off as genuine as it usually does, and two big things stuck out at me--

first the comment he made towards me buddying him was weird, first off because he doesn't seem to think I'm scum and if he brought it up to reaction test me he definitely dropped it way faster than I was expecting. I gave a half-assed explanation for why it came off like I was trying to buddy him & for why my votes were all over the place and he kinda just handwaved it. he tends to do this in games kinda often, probably because the way I defend myself as town is SUPER different from the way I defend myself as scum. and I didn't really see the same motivation or conviction here?

and his weapons case also reads like making it for the sake of it (inorganic, in a scum way); he could just attach himself to it and explain vaguely there's meta reasons for it and there isn't really any way to question that, especially for people who haven't played with weapons before (which is like a good chunk of this game)

1. The italicized: How long would you expect town!Prims vs. scum!Prims to remain upon a reaction test, if it was one? 

2. And if he does it as often as you say he does (assuming a meta-esque read applying here), does he always follow strongly through a reaction check, and is the lack of conviction directly correlated to him being scum here?

20 hours ago, Propeller Knight said:

my vote on Arcanite yesterday was basically a sheep, I didn't have a unique reason aside from what prims and refa had already said about their remark wrt scumkills.

What I never got to say about Refa last night was that I got vaguely that he felt unusually under pressure for what I thought was a facetious, offhand comment @ BBM.

like what was Refa expecting to get out of asking BBM if his claim was a fakeclaim? he could have just played this off as a joke but the explanation he gave for it instead I didn't like.

anyway now that that's out of the way...

Does that read as moreso fabricated effort at seeming productive ED1, then? Or was the handling/execution of what he said and did just poorly done?

17 hours ago, Propeller Knight said:

i still think prims is scum

eury is way less motivated when she's scum. i don't agree with her bbm vote but i think it's weird everyone else was arguing over his role earlier and whether or not his role should determine his alignment/how we read him and then eury comes in with her bbm case and suddenly everyone is on eury for it even though i thought we went over role =/= alignment anyway

Personally speaking, I don't mind that people don't fully agree with my vote. That doesn't bother me, as I understand that other people were reading him differently. What does bother me though is the fact that most of the people here assume that BBM held my HIGHEST direct priority at the time that I voted him, which is actually false. I put him next to Refa, but stated in my post that I had no point in voting Refa at the time, given that he already had a speeding wagon of 5 votes+ and enough pressure to warrant me picking my #2 case/concern, which was BBM. 

Granted, I haven't moved my vote since, but I did get mildly distracted by the wonky 1v1 chains of posting I had going back and forth with Refa, and until now, haven't gone to relook back at everyone as a whole.

16 hours ago, Propeller Knight said:

oh never mind eury is not actually scumreading me, but i'm in that middle group of people for some reason.

The entire "list" of things was basically (Refa/BBM leaning scum > the rest of you folks [at the time that I posted it] = null reads of lower priority/pinging me). I probably formatted it weirdly, so was partially my fault in the miscommunication/listing of priorities.

TL;DR on Propeller Knight: While I have trouble following the Prim's vote, I'm not otherwise receiving bad vibes from this slot. I think it's one of the highest probable town slots for me currently.

Spoiler

Weapons

18 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Well I typed up a post and it disappeared so that’s fun. Basically I disagree with the philosophy that town should act in a certain way and instead it’s on the scumhunters to be able to read whatever they’re doing as long as they’re not pulling some shit. Depending on meta/experience, I feel like Bard should know better and being suspicious of Arcanite for stated reasons is too easy of a case, especially since I think Arcanite’s attitude and posting patterns are more indicative of town. But if he has principles, he has principles. I feel the same with Eury a lot of the time, which is why I’m less suspicious of her atm, but also she’s a lot to read and I can’t even.

Im leaving my vote on Prims though; I find it weird that that was the set of topics he decided to comment on after coming back to the thread. I can see it as scum deciding to make an effort post to transition back into the game, but that might be tunneling. Especially considering how confident he seems with his read on me, and how that was the crux of the post, I feel like town would be more careful to consider that meta might change after 3 years.

The story of my life on the new SF forums.

The italicized part confuses me slightly. Townies are the scumhunters, and if there's no lines drawn between "reasonable" and "unreasonable/scummy actions" that would be expected from townies vs. nontownies, how can you expect them to hunt at all? 

> Whether it affects the notion of whether someone has built a weak/easy case doesn't negate the above, however. If you think that the casing is too easy though, is this scummy coming from him or just bad nitpicking gameplay towards a newer player?

Also, does meta not fully encompass the entire gameplay experience, habits, etc. from a player? Is Prim's confidence with his read on you bad for basing it on past meta, and what constitutes whose meta is more relevant/reliable to be utilized for reading people than not?

18 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

I think Refa’s been fine for a while. Been active and has been making stuff happen.

Very.... general blanket statement? lol. Has the "stuff" been productive? Is his activity level directly indicative towards actual efforting in scumhunting and quality posts?

6 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Cause I always make this mistake of writing someone off as town based on activity. I’ve been suspicious of Prims and Bard (who I’d consider switching to if there was a bigger wagon, or at least think more about lynch priority). I don’t think the arguments for Eury are very strong, and there’s around six players who I get distinct town vibes from. I think BBM might be third based on rolespec alone, but not really pursuing atm.

Does the bolded serve to verify the vague post above? (In terms of activity level = more townie read) And, while I assume that your priority remains with Prims higher, at what point does Bard fully stand in the priority list? Is there anything outside of his view on Arcanite that's contributing to good or bad reads on him from your PoV?

TL;DR on Weapons: I'm not fully sure how to read this slot, tbh. A lot of the reads he has seems to spawn from Meta such, which is making the gauging of his case(s) a little more uncertain for me (I tend to try and avoid fullblown meta reading people if at all possible, personally, so this could be differences in mindsets that's making it hard for me to understand fully.) Null, and would be interested in hearing more from the slot when he can.

Spoiler

BBM

20 hours ago, BBM said:

i agree that the rvs arcanite wagon for having one filler post in RVS was dumb... but this doesn't actually make Refa having filler posts scummy either.

the shinori defence stuff tbh I don't think is a great part of the case against eury. that just seems like playstyle differences wrt Eury including shinori in her priority list. that being said she was defending shinori. stuff like this is defending shinori's play:

also this bit from eury on refa:

lmao eury you misread refa's point totally. refa was saying that I would jump onto the Refa wagon after Prims responded to my vote on him, not that Prims would jump onto the Refa wagon. how could you be so careless if you're town??? WERE YOU TRYING TO PURPOSELY MISCONSTRUE REFA'S POSTS TO PUSH A CASE AGAINST HIM???

to be clear, I do think that this was a harmless misread. but that's the point; people post a lot of words and sometimes we mess up in reading them. 

The point I was making was that Refa said all of his posts had purpose. To which I disagreed in saying that his filler posts are just filler, with no real purpose. And more often than not, people making filler posts do so to add more padding to their ISO and use it to artificially produce "content" without actually doing so. Whether he has in this case or not is debatable, but my gut read felt as though he was leaning towards the more scummy tactic here than not.

... Oh. Was he really saying you and not Prims? I recall him just noting Prims, and then just saying "he"/"him" so assumed he was still talking about Prims. o_O I don't remember your name being dropped in the chunk of quote post regarding that situation, so read as moreso assuming that Prims would reactionary jump on Refa's wagon. Oops. Glasses aren't working RIP.

17 hours ago, BBM said:

via I don't think anybody is suspicious of eury for her rolespec about my claim? I'm suspicious of her because she's insistent on saying that I misread things on purpose to mess people's reads up while not giving any evidence for why she thinks I am doing so in this game, just theory on why a hypothetical scum might do so. it's part of a larger context of her looking at things in isolation and calling them scummy without looking at the context surrounding them, like her pushing refa for having filler posts even though it was RVS, or her pushing me for "coasting" by not pressing arcanite more even though arcanite had already talked about everything going on at that time.

i don't think shinori interactions are a large part of the case against her either.

The only reason why I stated it when I did was because there was a good handful of posts that occurred damn near back-to-back to where an "uncommon mistake" was becoming too common to be just an accident. It was rubbing off as either a carelessness aspect, or in the worst of case, actual scum intent to start twisting posts around- the main issue with the latter is the fact that it can be done and then left to sit for someone to pick up (like arming a mine, dropping it on the ground, and walking away for someone else to step on or run off with- enabling the misunderstandings to occur and misreps to happen thereafter). And especially when it happened/resulted in several items like Arcanite votes and other votes thereafter several misreps, it sort of shows the impact of such mistakes to where there is the plausibility of scum intent of people doing so.

16 hours ago, BBM said:

omega's switch back to prims is really weird. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he just forgot to post his reasoning in his initial prims vote way back when, so that was fine I think. but then prims made a bunch of other posts, he mentioned that he mostly agreed with prims's scumreads, and he spent most of the past two pages talking about refa/eury- I don't understand why he switched back to prims at all.

i can't actually remember the content inside eury's wallposts as town vs scum much bc my meta used to be that she would just find excuses not to post as scum and not really make any wallposts, so I barely ever even read them because I would just take her to be town as soon as she made wallposts. but then she had a game where she made wallposts as scum and I had to throw that meta out, rip to the 2nd easiest town meta ever (I hope my manix town meta never goes away)

i will say though that this isn't so much her being nitpicky about my wording as her saying I'm scum because my actions have theoretical scum intent rather than showing why actions have actual scum intent with examples as to the lasting negative impact my misreading has had on the game.

If he didn't post his reasoning behind his initial prims vote, and then dropped another Prims vote without explanation, how is this ok? What makes him forgetting to list the initial reasoning mean that someone can post a second vote on that target without once again saying anything? Don't quite understand the handwaving here.

Also, in a nutshell: Scum exist to scramble and confuse and derail townside as much as possible. If someone is skewing cases, or thoughts, or misrepping, then people are being fed biased and misinformed information. Things purposely manipulated to purposefully funnel interest and focus onto their choice of people. Manipulation of information in cases and reading people is one of the biggest and scummiest things that can exist in the Mafia realm, and is the strongest thing next to actual power roles to affect the overall flow of the game. So I wouldn't say that the oversight of misleading/misrepping information in itself doesn't have scum intent painted within it. 

16 hours ago, BBM said:

i guess that's fair. my answer would be that regardless of her alignment, eury probably thought the reasons for townreading me on role were dumb and she could get people to change those easily. i also think that again regardless of alignment she didn't want to vote refa because there was already a wagon on him.

bard has pushed the misreading thing like eury has too, which is part of why I dislike him. but he hasn't pushed it as much as eury has I guess so @Bard I would like you to clarify- do you think I'm intentionally misreading things to push a scum agenda or do you think me misreading a lot is just grounds to be wary? and if the former, why is shinori scummier than me?

Once again, this was covered in my initial vote post, in the fact that Refa already had 5 votes or so, and his wagon was picking up speed. He had sufficient pressure, being my top read, so I settled to start applying pressure elsewhere for more effective information gathering. Which has worked out ok so far.

Outside of that, @BBM, is that the majority of your negative read on the Bard slot (with the fact that he pushed forth the misreading thing), or is there something else bothering you about his slot?

4 hours ago, BBM said:

idt arcanite has ever scumread me for misreading. his stance has been that it makes him wary and that's in the back of his mind but it's not the main thing he's using to judge my alignment, which I think is a fair way of going about it.

main problem with arcanite right now is that I don't really know who he thinks is scum. his vote's on Refa but it seems from his words that that's dying down. also he talks about prims needing to come back and give darned good content which kind of seems like he didn't see Prims's content over the past few pages?

dunno i'm like slightly leaning town on Weapons. suspicious parts about him imo are just his general tone while playing; basically the secondary parts of Prims and Refa's cases about self-consciousness. but I don't think the change on Prims is a sign of him being inauthentic. my reason for the slight townread is wifomy but I don't really see the benefit for scum!Weapons in wagoning onto Prims in that context. Refa was voting Weapons and also criticizing the Prims wagon and Weapons' response to that was to... sheep onto the Prims wagon? just feels like a very odd time to do it when the backlash against the wagon had already started, which makes me think he legit thought prims was scummy.

sheeping refa's read on omega. general tone and proactiveness are good but he just says stuff with a lot of conviction and no real evidence like "one of prims/arcanite is scum" and "one of prims/weapons" is scum, which is weird. not really sure what to do about it.

Is Arcanite's lack of scum reads indicative of anything? Where does this place Arcanite in terms of read/priority for you?

What do you garner from Omega based on the posts/votes he's done so far? What of the suggested pairs/associative interactions with Prims as the common denominator- is there scum intent behind it or something else? 

3 hours ago, BBM said:

bard is using basically the same arguments as eury for pushing me. He just isn't committing to them as much, though I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or bad thing. his bit about how I'm using my reputation for having bad misreading skills as a defence is dumb bc I'm not doing that. I don't like his case on me and I think his case on arcanite is willfully ignorant bc I told him "yeah ofc arcanite is skittish he's playing like his second game" and his response was to say that he doesn't know meta and is only going to focus on this game. not knowing meta and therefore not taking it into account is one thing, being told about a player's experience level and ignoring it is a totally different thing. experience =/= meta anyways. 

he's also talked a lot more about me than Shinori so I'm not really sure why his vote is there.

also I didn't really realize this until someone (snike?) pointed it out recently bc a lot of his content was centered around me, but his last couple posts were kind of filler-y and didn't really try to engage with the thread. I think his first big post entry post was mostly not that scummy even if I didn't agree with the cases and I disliked how he talked about you. but this post is basically just a big post talking about why he's not giving content. this post doubles down on bad opinions (imo) and is essentially only a direct response to my posts talking to him, and not anything else that happened, including all my other posts not responding to him, and posts by another of his main scumreads, arcanite.

dunno he did say he's busy so maybe when he comes into the thread next time he'll give more opinions on more people, and update his suspicions and stuff. part of my suspicion is also that I think he's been town in all his previous games on SF and he was a lot more obvtown and got killed N1 in most of them. this just doesn't seem up to that standard.

So is bard a scum read for you? Null leaning scum? Null? I don't really get an actual grasp of where you have him, outside of not being a strong townread. With this entire post being filled with mostly negative items regarding his slot, but not actually coming to any sort of conclusion as to what sort of read you have on him, what is your actual standing on Bard?

TL:DR on BBM: You like to defend and sheep Refa's cases, and you also seem to like to spend time noting moreso negative items from playerslots without actually offering reads thereafter. While I highly disliked the errors/misreps earlier in D1, at this point you seem to be oddly wall sitting on multiple people, and the lack of conviction or desire to have a direct read on them feels off to me. Null leaning a bit scummish, mostly due to the pockets in information you seem to not be giving.

Also, gonna ##Unvote here, since I will putting down a vote once this wall is done at the bottom. 

Spoiler

Snike/Fenrir Slot

19 hours ago, Snike said:

So if weapons is abandoning his old meta, can I take it?

More seriously,

##Vote: Eurykins

I think she's the most suspicious individual right now. The aggression (I'll see if I can pin down the exact bits in the wall) don't sit well with me, and at least from while I was lurking pre-sub it read as hard defending shinori, when I don't know if I'd say shinori seems obv town.

I also want to take a look at arcanite and shinori himself afterwards. I can understand the prims wagon to some extent, but I think that latest fencepost was more in line with what I know of -actually scratch that.

Prims, how do we know that the game is 9/4 for sure?

I don't really think I was aggressive with anything I posted, minus some of the 1v1 mild frustration I had with Refa and my posts (felt like I was beating my head against the wall for zero reason). So not seeing that as valid.

I still don't understand the "defense of Shinori" thing, but I'll chalk it up as something I'll never see/understand, since I've not understood it since people started trying to case me for a while and I still can't see/find it at all.

This vote also seems pretty weak in a sense, as most of the points feel flim at best to me.

18 hours ago, Snike said:

I am still working on euryspecifics. but I'm also rereading the thread at the same time. It's not that aggression is suspicious but the WC was strong. Like, the page 7 calls your post asking about clarification wrt BBM's info drop "Garbage". Call it tonal, but that's talking about a page 1 post which is well into RVS. Overblown would be the most generous thing you can say about it.

I don't think it's casing you in good faith. And combine that with how I feel about you (good) and you get where I'm going.

Re: Arcanite:  I don't think basing a case on misreading d1 is a strong case and aside from that they haven't really done much even when pressure was put on, Maybe it's busy but I don't feel good them.

Re: Shinori: Tonal. He's not flaming me enough. I'm not used to calm shinori admittedly, but his play has felt a little detached. I need to finish my reread though.

On Prims: I can understand why the wagon happened before the vote because I think Prims disappearing after page 3 with what he had at that point in time was uncharacteristic and potentially suspicious, however, I think the page 8 fencepost, especially the para before the vote change, reads as town!Prims.

Stopping here because this alone took 30 minutes. <= why I don't wallpostanymore

When an "information role" gives you basically no information, it's useless, probably even moreso than garbage (At least the latter can be burned for heat.) It's why I didn't see the point in people assuming BBM's role as being a town thing, because we were all left thinking, "So what? We learned nothing." Especially when you compare it to the fact that Rapier at least gave us a solid number of 9 townies this game- which also calls into question whether town would require/have two information-based roles like that given to us or not? It's why I don't really find much merit with BBM's claim, even moreso now.

18 hours ago, Snike said:

@WeaponsofMassConstruction I'm just getting to eury now for rereading in full, in her first wall under the Refa header, her second point is kind of weird. It's top of page 4,  just under your post, and it's talking about vote purity.

How do I put it, I don't think it's genuine, because she's attacking Refa for not voting BBM when BBM claimed page one and refa made (what I view as) a flippant remark then asked BBM some questions. The way I read it is that she thinks Refa should've voted him immediately on claim if he thought BBM's claim was iffy, for pressure. That doesn't make sense though because then Refa just said he didn't find BBM scummy. So how is that scummy?

Aside: the refa quote in that page was in response to a Shinori-post characterizing it as an attack, which I think is over the top. What do others think about this?

What Refa had explicitly said was that he was pressuring for information was that "I don't like Pressure votes-feels inauthentic."

That in itself felt odd to me, because people pressure vote (especially ED1) all the time- it offers pressure and incentives people to respond, react, etc. He himself has also voted on weak reads/cases before and has voted people to apply pressure to a person/wagon before in other games, so why was he so hesitant to do so or felt the need to make an excuse like that to avoid doing so? That is more of the issue that I had with the situation. 

6 hours ago, Snike said:

So uh given (I think) like half of my posts last night were on Eury and specifically why I voted her that's disingenuous Refa. Yeah I am supplying reads but given I subbed in is that not what I'm supposed to do? But again I did case Eury.

On arcanite and bard: they're the other members (Eury being the first) of what I'm going to call the misread lynch posse in that they're going after people (BBM) for having BBM-level reading skills. Bard is worse for this in that he implies in I think the page 6 post that BBM is intentionally misreading and so that case feels dumb at best. It's not a strong or even reasonable way to build a case and, in Arcanite's case, I don't feel like they have done much else aside from flip flop on Prims. 

Cut by next page.

So what are your actual thoughts/reads on them? 

5 hours ago, Snike said:

I don't think I did a complete bit by bit casing on Eury but there was the example of word choice my going at the start of page 4 on your section and the whole tone shift thing I touched on briefly in my 230 post.  The second half of her page 7 post that I linked specifically is also suspect since the denial of the defend reads as over the top and I wish I had laptop acces rn to try and break that down but seriously. There's ??? As in i don't know where that came from, ex omega talking to weapons then votehopping again and then there's "(insertquestionhere)???" Which implies some sort of emotion and is what eury has in that bit. Why would she get riled up over that? 

Aside: I don't know if casing eury wall by wall would be the best way to go about it since (As I think it was Prims who said this) a good deal of her content is theory, so any attempt to go all in would devolve into a theory argument and not really do anything except waste data and space on a webpage. This applies townside or scumside.

You might have a point on Arcanite in that they have done more but I don't think that the other stuff was memorable to me. I'm not trying to misrep them so I should've clarified that that's what I think.

Cutting here because dog beckons.

TBH I have no idea what the bolded paragraph even states. Tried reading and re-reading it, and nothing is actually comprehending in my head. 

TL;DR on Snike/Fenrir Slot: Outside the tunneling of me, I am not reading much from this slot. I also failed to quote whatever came from Fenrir's post (but I will cry myself to sleep if I refresh this page and I lose most of my posting until now, so I'll have to look at it later), so not sure how I feel about this slot as a whole. Purely Null, and interested in hearing more about overall reads.

Spoiler

Prims

20 hours ago, Prims said:

Man I do not feel like reading Mafia today. Kind of envious of Rapier's meta after seeing his post.

@BBM: "Also Prims hasn't done this much as town in the past. I remember because I've specifically voted him out of RVS for not purposely making wagons for reactions before and he was town." uhhhh is this a joke? why am I expected to approach RVS the same way every game? why would scum!Prims arbitrarily have different RVS conduct? but yeah I did vote Arcanite just for the sake of wagoning them, fight me. I don't agree that wagoning newbies is unfair; newbies can towntell in response to wagons and newbies can scumtell in response to them. I trust peoples' reading abilities well enough that expecting me to hold back and not do the obvious move to progress the game because there's a chance Arcanite could react badly as town is kind of ridiculous. fwiw re: this post I personally do not put much faith in meta especially with a sample size of one post so yeah I did not consider my Weapons vote strong at all, personally.

@Eurykins: Eury why are you using ISOs four pages into Day 1. Please read the thread like a normal person! Also please write shorter posts but lmao. To answer your question, though, I don't think other votes on Arcanite made them look worse so much as I was like "cool ED1 wagon time let's go" and was also easily willing to switch because I thought my Weapons vote kind of sucked? it was something I was hoping he would be around to respond to immediately but he wasn't so there was no point sitting on it. Arcanite's post bugged me more than Via's as a potential attempt to blend in, but my reaction to Via wasn't "I want to lynch him for this" to begin with so much as "this is weird, please explain".

@Walrein: calling Shinori scummy for "weirdness about his vote" then comparing it to your previous scum game doesn't really fly when what you pointed out (him not intending to vote refa then doing it anyway) and what you did in Cuphead Mafia (intentionally going most of the phase without voting) are completely different actions in completely different contexts. this is a very dishonest dig at him. what do you think Shinori's scum plan is with that voting weirdness?

I said I thought my initial Weapons vote sucked but actually let's take another look at this slot now that he's posting more:

Needless self-deprecation! (while under fire for potentially being lurky, no less)

More self-consciousness. This is followed by a wagon hop on me, which he justifies interestingly:

except Weapons had previously looked at my posts enough to say he thought my vote was reasonable so huh??? caught in a lie. I don't think this change in opinion or the wagon jump is realistic, it looks like a way for scum!Weapons to be Doing Something but not be held accountable for making content since it's a sheep. Combined with weird self-consciousness in his earlier posts I feel pretty good about voting here.

##Unvote
##Vote: Weapons

Eury still harping on the possibility BBM is misreading on purpose doesn't look good to me and so I start to wonder if she's forcing reasons / tunneling on purpose as scum so she doesn't have to find a new vote. I dunno man I try to read her posts and it seems like she nitpicks at him with these weird blobs of text about gameplay theory I glaze over because they're not actually explaining why he's scummy or worth voting? I would be fine voting her off as well. (Feels bad wanting to lynch all the people who haven't played in a while, but that's just how it is sometimes, I suppose.)

ugh fenrir aesir with the elie-style quotestripe catchups that nobody actually wants to read I almost want to kneejerk suspect him on that alone. and then I actually read his post and saw this:

uhhhhh this is a very outrageous claim to come up with if you haven't gotten to the numbers claim yet! I don't think anybody goes into mafia games thinking "yeah this is probably multiball", like, it's not something I would ever consider UNLESS I knew the game was 9:4. but because we /do/ know the game is 9:4 thanks to Rapier, multiball might actually be plausible, which means this could be a slip? what are the odds of town theorizing about this unprompted just to justify suspecting two people who don't make sense as buddies? if we get a flip from a Scumteam B then this is going to look very weird.

but even ignoring that this is kinda scummy dude! it looks like you're reaching to justify that you could support the lynch of both these players, in a way that spreads paranoia at that. in any case I really wish you would just like, read the thread first, and post the most important impressions you get once you've actually read everything. like I'm doing right now.

I don't really think BBM is scum even though his vote on me was lame I swear he votes me over RVS actions in every game now. I feel relatively fine about Arcanite now that they've posted more, it just looks like their posts from Kemono Friends but a bit more of a grasp on what Mafia is now. So uh, Weapons > Eury > Fenrir, with a nagging feeling about Walrein's push on Shinori as well, but not strong enough that I'd actually vote him, as he had other reasons for it too and I think the rest of his content is basically acceptable even if he is on the wrong side of history.

Because I was trying to work out the kinks in Makaze's ISO thing and people had already posted some shit ED1 while I was at work!

...I also feel like no one actually reads what I posted when I initially voted BBM. *Facepalms*

18 hours ago, Prims said:

Omega was the second on my wagon, though. The only person who suspected me off the wagon was Shinori who wasn't pushing it very strongly.

Omega, what do you think of Bard? I remember you mentioned him somewhere but I couldn't tell what you were getting at with it.

I GUESS BBM's defense of Weapons is fair? The self-deprecation and context of the vote ("I got no reads so here's a sheep on the biggest wagon") still bug me, though. Weapons, how do you feel about Eury and Refa now? What makes me worse than Bard to you?

TBH I've straight up not been able to get anything out of Refa and Bard's posts so far this game. Refa has made votes I agree with but isn't really towntelling or anything. Bard has understandable logic but for cases on people I don't actually want to lynch right now. I'm pretty interested in what he has to say now that Shinori has replied.

Several of the reads/notions above (from both posts) have been bolded, because they seem to be extremely wall-sitting. 

Do Snike's posts (for the Fenrir slot) affect your read on the slot? 

Has Refa said/done things that conflict with his agreeable voting pattern that prevent you from finding him moreso townie or not?

If Bard has OK logic, but against people you aren't wanting to lynch, what of anything else of his gameplay? What would lead to more indicative thoughts regarding reading where he stands in your books?

TL;DR on Prims: For some reason, when I look at Prim's slot, I feel like he generally has stronger/more committed reads going for himself than what is up currently. Secondly, the posts also have a slightly worse feel because, while they're read posts, they're not really. The vast majority of the reads seem to either flop back and forth, or otherwise literally sit back and don't read in either spectrum, minus me, Weapons, and Fenrir (but assuming this post occurred before Snike posted, if the time stamps are correct). Not sure if due to lack of interest or effort, but I'm getting slightly lazy/minorly scummish vibes as a result. 

Spoiler

Refa

Note: This entire post has comprised of content from page 8-13. If there's something specific I missed responding to @Refa during our exchange, let me know and I'll get back to it if it's not already answered below.

22 hours ago, Refa said:

You literally didn't give a reason for voting Prims.  It's not about your reasoning being weak, it's about not existing.

I'd expect Town Omega to have a reason for who he's voting.

Don't like this post because it's keeping me open as a lynch candidate despite townie interactions.

Agreeable reason for the vote.

7 hours ago, Refa said:

Arcanite is null.  I want to see how their case on me progresses in particular because that's my main point of contention with the slot.

Have you prompted Arcanite with anything to further the discussion of the actual case revolving around you? And if that is the sole reason why you're having issues, what else about the Arcanite slot has either bothered or been fine? Why is the case on you the sole issue? 

6 hours ago, Refa said:

I haven't had the time/energy to make a huge post recently, just responses and inquiries.  If you want to know where I stand on things before I make such a post, you'll have to ask me.  I uh...didn't read Prims' responses lol.  Don't really get BBM's defense though.  This doesn't read like town changing their mind to me.  You said the vote was reasonable, then later on you said you looked back and got scum vibes which seems inauthentic to me; your read is flipping but I'm not seeing the thought process there.  Do you still think Prims' vote on you was reasonable?  What parts of his posts gave you scum vibes?

I actually think Prims comes out of this looking kind of bad too, though.  If he agrees w/BBM's defense, why is he still voting Weapons?  Self deprecation is not stronger than what Prims has on Eury/Fenrir IMO.

So where do you fully stand on your read on Prims?

TL;DR of Refa: While I haven't had much issue with the latter half of his gameplay, Refa continues to remain more idle than expected regarding certain circumstances. In the case above, you remain Null on the Arcanite slot and the main contention of the slot is due to their case on you specifically? Has weird vibes of just sitting and waiting, instead of being more proactive about getting your own reads more clarified for the sake of making more definitive calls/reads as a whole. Also, there are undeniable correlations happening from time to time between Refa/BBM that I'm finding while reading through both of their ISOs, which is something to be noted. At this point, I do not believe that he is my STRONGEST scum read, but he remains in my top contenders to be lynched. 

Spoiler

Shinori

22 hours ago, Shinori said:

As of last night I was scum reading Refa, leaning scum on Prims, disliking Arcanite's follow up so kind of leaning scum on that and then mostly null on everyone else.  Now the way I'm gonna handle this post is I plan to respond to things over the past few pages that I need to respond to or that are focused on me, then eat, then probably come back and and respond to things that aren't focused on just me.  I'm feeling fairly out of it so I'll be breaking this post into two so that I will have an easier time with this.  Apologies but really not feeling well today.

Also I'm gonna put this here since there was stuff stated about this later: I don't see this post as defending me.  There isn't even really anything to defend me from?

Who's Serela?  Question: Why does Scum!Shinori get for throwing poo at Refa, in what would be an attempt to slander him, and then vote him anyway before other people even have a chance to follow up or respond?  If the aim is to slander them or make them seem bad without me myself having to be the catalyst then I wouldn't have voted him before people could comment on things.  Also I don't think I waffled at all on my Refa case.  I specifically stated that it was bad and the play was scummy, but during my first few posts I just don't see why scum would act in a manner he did in general.  After thinking of it more I decided that scum could act this way and last game had multiple examples of scum acting in weird manners so it was plausible.  At that point in time I voted him because he had done the most scummy thing in the thread imo and I felt it deserved questioning.

How can what be considered legitimate scum hunting? You didn't really have anything labeled as an example here to really argue against?  Unless you imply my entire play is not scum hunting in which case I would say that's your opinion on my play style.  I also then ask, Why isn't it scumhunting?  I've pushed people I felt deservered pressure, I've commented on things that people have done that is scummy and I've pointed out scum-intent in both my refa case and Prims voteswap.  On a secondary note, is scum hunting the first and foremost thing to be done on early day 1?  What about just getting reads in general on most of the player base?  What about getting a couple of town reads to make your hunt for scum a little easier?

Commenting on something that is logically flawed and yelling at people for being dumb is something I do, apologies if it throws you off or you dislike it.

I'll ask you the same questiong: Why would Scum!Shinori throw poo on someone and then vote them before other people really have a chance to respond?  Also I feel like this comment misreps part of what I stated when I made that big post.

Stating the reason for why I HADN'T been voting Refa followed by further reasoning as to why I then CHOSE to PUT my vote on Refa are two different things.  It's not waffling by any means, it give's reasoning as to why I hadn't vote for him previously while then stating my current opinion on him and why I was choosing to vote them now.

For what it matters I already commented on this: I don't think Eury was defending me.  I found her lynch priority weird but I just assumed it was more or less something along the lines of: "I want to lynch this person or this person and these other three people are literally the only people who have posted."  Also I don't think you were her strongest scum read?  I'm 90% sure she's voting BBM and in her lynch priority she even states "Refa = BBM"  This is kind of a misrep and combined with the previous Arcanite misrep I dislike it.  I feel like a large portion of this post is talking about her lynch priority which I don't think is a really strong argument.

1: Objectively true, the fact is that I believe, as well as multiple other people it seems, that your initial BBM attack was scummy and it was weird that you didn't actually vote them considering it was RVS and you don't need any specific reason to vote someone.  Generally it consists of just voting for any semi-decent reason you can find.

2: This is false.

3: I think this is fine, not having a bunch of scum reads when its like page 3 is understandable.

4: This is true, Eury's entire lynch priority could have used a bit of clarification.

5: I still don't see her defending me anywhere, although I feel it's weird because her post implies she's reading me as more town yet according to her I was in a null area for her lynch priority.

1: He had more reasoning to vote weapons and his vote swap was based off of a weak tonal argument.  He also waited until others voted Arcanite before putting himself there, I don't think that's all that great.  Like in the context of looking at his Arcanite vote you have to look at his weapons vote, do you feel his Arcanite vote had more merit at the current time?  If NOT then why do you feel that his Arcanite reasoning was fine in comparison?

I don't think the roles conflict but I also don't entirely believe it?  I have a theory but I'm not sure if I should ask the question I want to ask because it potentially helps scum more than town.

Prims wagon is feeling weird to me though, I dislike Prim's play earlier and am still leaning scum on him but I felt this wagon built up weirdly.  I don't know how to explain this because it's just a weird gut feeling.

Currently not really liking the Eury cases though, will comment more on this during my second post.

@Fenrir AesirI disagree.  I proved this by stating that there are too many unknown's at that current time to actually gain any information from it.  I myself posted like 6 or so potential questions that could be asked and I felt even if they were answered at that time they didn't do anything for us.

@Omega.I already know and can reliably see Refa and BBM's standpoint and case on Eury but the only thing I'm seeing you state is "Eury can go."  Does this imply a scum read?  If so could you further elaborate on this?  What stands out as scummy play or has scum intent behind it?  Why is the Prims wagon a good wagon in your eyes?  On the flip side does anyone on the wagon stand out to you?  I ask this because like I said I feel weird about the Prims wagon at the moment and I'm not entirely sure why so I want to hear some opinions on the Prims wagon.

Overall I think this is it for now, I'll be back in a few hours most likely.  Vote will stay on Refa for now but I still don't like Prims and I am getting bad vibes from Omega.  Next post will have more of other content in it.

What? Did my tone suggest that? Will probably need to look back at my own post if that's actually true. 

@Shinori WRT Prim's wagon: Was it the speed at which the wagon built? The people starting/pushing it? Did the cases on him have validation enough to warrant the wagon?

TL;DR on Shinori: Hasn't really moved much for me, tbh. Might be the fact that (at the time I started this post on Pg 8), this was the only thing that popped up for me to look through, and most of it I didn't have issues with. There is some issue with vagueness (like with the Prim's wagon comment) that I want answered, but all in all, I've not gotten massively bad vibes from his slot so far. Null leaning more towards townish.

Spoiler

Omega

22 hours ago, Omega. said:

@Shinori

I explained why I voted Prims here: 

Eury can go because I don't like the fact that she's pushing BBM as a top play; he's VERY obviously a horrible play this dayphase and scum are likelier to commit to a stance contrary to that than town. The quote I pulled is also foul.

The Prims wagon is good because it has me, BBM, Via, Walrein, and Weapons. As of right NOW I don't find any of those players scummy. What I'm saying it's not like I see a votecount and see scummy players on it, so a multitude of players who are null/town gives me good feelings about a Prims flip. Regarding you feeling weird about it, that's on you to figure out. You seem to dislike my slot so that could be where the feeling is coming from. What do you think of the other voters on it?

Why is everyone assuming that BBM was my top play/case? 

19 hours ago, Omega. said:

Refa, it's easy in the current gamestate but my impression since my time here is that Prims is a difficult mislynch. What I'm getting at is that I think my slot trying to sink that on D1 is such a needless strategy bound for failure that I have a hard time believing that you genuinely believe I'd go for it as scum as opposed to myself being Town and going for it.

Also, I really think Eury is scum. Your and BBM's push had that bingo feel to it that I thought made a lot of sense, and I just can't believe she's saying that BBM is our best lynch as Town. I guess Eury could be ITP and you mafia, but when I typed out I just said "scum" and didn't consciously think through the potential for her being indy and you mafia or whatever. I think I also may have unconsciously thought that she was likely mafia because her BBM push is so blatantly antitown it's hard for me to see an ITP making a suicide play like that. So basically, I agreed that Eury was scum and figured she will flip scum, and there was talk of absolving you of suspicion if she did which I did not want to get on board with. So I slapped you as potential ITP to keep you on the table in case she flips mafia. That said if she flips town, you could go back to mafia, or whatever.

Anyway I want to drop this, I'm not married to the idea of you being ITP and I don't even know if I'm pushing you next or what, part of my motivation for this dialog has been that at least you're active and I know I can get some meaningful discourse with a slot I'm unsure of.

##Vote: Eurykins

I don't even understand half of this post or vote. Someone send help please.

18 hours ago, Omega. said:

The most striking thing Bard has said was his loud declaration that the Refa wagon sucked while everyone else was dogpiling Refa. Like, you know how scum come in and whiteknight the townie getting wagoned or declare them town or whatever? Bard's post looked like that, because I do not see why any townie would have handwaved the Refa wagon/hate so easily at that point in the game. So if Refa is innocent after all, I would not be shocked to discover that Bard is scum due to his behavior towards Refa being a complete outlier to how townies were reacting to Bard. I thought it could indicate that Bard had information that townies are not privy to. I remember saying the slot was trending down by which I mean "I'm feeling worse about this slot as the Day continues." They are probably not scum together due to the strength of Bard's statement; I'm not taking it to the bank 100% but I'd lean them not being partners off that alone.

I've been trying to think of why Refa spoke up against your wagon the way he did. If he town, he got frustrated at what he perceived to be as shitty votes on a player who wasn't scummy. If he's scum, he was doing it for points. But he really didn't have to do the latter. I agree he hasn't been towntelling and is a tough read thus far, and your comment about a bad feeling about Walrein interested me as well.

Prims got wagoned, Refa got wagoned, and I'm nodding with much of what BBM has been saying lately. What a strange D1 and game. 

What are you general feelings on those who wagoned you, like do you think scum took advantage or anything? I know you're scumreading Weapons.

This post is so...  I guess, associative-reads stacked? But even then, I don't even garner a full interaction/set of reads on them as a result, so I'm 100x more confused about where you stand on Bard/Refa than before I read this post. o_o''

What is your PoV on all of the wagons that have occurred thus far (I know you seem to like the Prims wagon due to those on it)? Which have merit, which don't? Is there scum intent in how/how fast any of them garnered attention/momentum, or something else?

17 hours ago, Omega. said:

Might be enough for me, I can flip a coin between Eury and Prims atm.

Eh, fuck it. I'm going to bed, there's bound to be more content with which to analyze Eury with the inevitable quote and wall wars as she engages BBM/Refa. For now, night y'all.

##Vote: Prims

O...kay.

6 hours ago, Omega. said:

Who are those town reads and to what degree do you read them town? Are some more town than others?

##Vote: Snike

What?

TL;DR of Omega: Confusion and madness are the best ways for me to describe what I'm garnering from this slot. I'm not sure if the Prims vote was more consolidation-esque (but even then I'm pretty sure I also had a good handful of votes on me at the time too?) or something else, but I also don't understand where the Snike vote just came from. I'm so confused and I do not trust this slot at all, and the case on me seems extremely weak compared to some of the other points/notions people have made against me. Would probably put him up in the highest tier of "would lynch today" and be done with it.

Spoiler

Arcanite

6 hours ago, Arcanite said:

Thoughts on Eurykins
I was impressed by the effort to make such long posts, so there's that
I think it can be seen as making a mask as scum by posting good content, but eh. Nothing said so far has been that scummy at least to me
BUT there's more to read through for you since new wall posts have developed so yaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more reading!!!!
@Eurykins Is there any way you can make your posts less painful to read?

I'm trying via spoiler windows, but if this doesn't work, I apologize and blame the newer SF forums shit. :(

45 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I have this here so I can easily see what I said before, for changing things

Some things I saw along the way that I had some things to say about:

This kinda means nothing to me since I've never played a game with Eurykins before soooo

I don't know about scum Eury or anything like that, you say it's separate from any meta read but just before that you say "I find it weird for scum eury to do this"

I think any type of reasoning based on what one did in x other game is shoddy at best, which you say you're not doing but it doesn't really look like it. I'm unsure what you're trying to accomplish here. Are you saying a Eury lynch doesn't make sense because that's (wallposting and such) in her nature (as town) or what?

Basically this defense of Eury makes me feel uncomfortable about props because it's not really found on anything too good or solid

Okay but

Why tho

Speaking of which, I think Eury's case is stronger than prims. Atm I kinda like you Omega. Kinda. I wish you were here a lot earlier, it's easy to get a read on people who were actually there from the start (or at least like page 2 or 3) but ah well. You didn't post a great deal of content relating to the earlier portion of the game when you actually did join, but from what you've said since im more inclined to think you're town too

*intense stare at Rapier*

Prims: FINALLY some content

Yay

Well, I agree with his weapons case, and prims also makes a legitimate argument about their original weapons vote. It was on page two and literally the reasoning was 

Which I actually read as a joke

Prims doesn't seem like a worthy lynch to me, at least for now. Do I think he's scum or town? Well I'm skipping across pages while I'm writing this

@Prims can I see a convenient list on your thoughts on everyone so fat please? kthanks

I think that'll help me better cause it's still hard to place for me. He did do a good job on defending himself so yee

Eurykins case is well founded I believe. The original wall post they had was 

Also I know I look like I'm on the page for long periods of time, I'm just making sure I read everything properly heh

????? well-founded by whom? Original wall post they had was...?

Also, while I can see how town or scum reading based on meta is questionable (especially to those whom you have no experience playing with), at what point do the cases attain merit vs. not? And those whom may be utilizing town or scum reading me or others- is using meta-based reads affecting your perception of their slot as a result? 

TL;DR of Arcanite: Nothing new really stands out to me with this slot currently. Never had much of an issue with this slot, and remains around the levels of Propeller for me in terms of leaning townish on reads.

TLDR OF ENTIRE POST/READS:

Leaning town: Propeller, Arcanite, Shinori

Null: Weapons, Snike

Leaning Scum: Prims, Refa, BBM

Top Prospect: Omega

Omega > Refa/BBM/Prims 

##Vote: Omega

If he does not meet the lynch, I will be ok with consolidating any of the latter 3 if need be.

[Eurykins]

EDIT: I DID NOT SEE THE PRIMS CLAIM/POST AND OTHER MORE RECENT POSTS. FML

[Eurykins]

Also apparently I missed Bard in the eternal ISO surf from pg 8 - now. Did he not post, or did I just fuck up and miss him?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Eury, what of Bard and Walrein?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Oh, you were doing it from a certain point of the game. He probably didn't post.

[Eurykins]

3 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Oh, you were doing it from a certain point of the game. He probably didn't post.

Pretty sure this is what happened. Only certain names were popping up on the Makaze ISO surfing thing, so I THOUGHT I got everyone. Apparently not.

Brb need to check those two. Also, Prim's claim is.... urgh. I have no experience in terms of having known anyone claim deathproof before in a game, and with role madness, almost anything is plausible for the mods to have tossed on either side. Gut feeling wants to take him off of the secondary priority for today, but will be a last resort consolidation if people are wanting to put his claim to the test.

[Arcanite]

3 hours ago, Arcanite said:

Anyway on page 4 is where she makes her original wall posts, and talks about BBM. The first vote/point on her was by Refa, who pointed out her paranoia of intentionally claiming to misread just to confuse people. I know at first I sort of believed the same thing, with my vote against Refa earlier on (again, that's now the only thing that made me keep my vote on them). It is obvious though that misreading as a whole isn't something one can quite bank on for a scum read...

 

I'll need to continue this later cause I need to go shopping, but I'm not done

Ahem

Refa's other point on her was that her post was defending Shinori because she doesnt say much about him, besides that his vote was leg1t . That part of Refa's case on her I dont agree with (and Neither did BBM)
Looking back at that series of wall posts she does a whole lot of questions and a lot less thoughts, we had to ask about her little lynch priority thing after (which she did provide a good explanation for). Im concerned because we had to ask for it, and she didnt just give it on her own. It kinda wastes time when you post a huuuuuge wall with questions and no thoughts 

As if she's making it look like she's posting good crud but she's not exactly invested in the game, perhaps investigating or stirring ideas for more chaos. The other thing is (I think Shinori said this) those questions were not too hard to answer, I am unsure how much those questions contributed actually, aside from attracting attention to Refa (which gave me more content to judge him on) and attacking BBM, which goes alongside her voting him.

On 3/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, Eurykins said:

Btw this post in itself screams OMGUS alongside the vote. 

I'd agree with this
But considering BBM voted after I'm less inclined
I think Refa did that to give more attention to Eury more than anything, not really him voting you just 'cuz. Especially since I'm pretty sure at this moment her vote was still on BBM

On 3/5/2018 at 9:31 PM, Prims said:

Eury still harping on the possibility BBM is misreading on purpose doesn't look good to me and so I start to wonder if she's forcing reasons / tunneling on purpose as scum so she doesn't have to find a new vote. I dunno man I try to read her posts and it seems like she nitpicks at him with these weird blobs of text about gameplay theory I glaze over because they're not actually explaining why he's scummy or worth voting? I would be fine voting her off as well. (Feels bad wanting to lynch all the people who haven't played in a while, but that's just how it is sometimes, I suppose.)

Then Prims says this which I completely agree with
like 100%
After looking back at her posts
Which helps his credibility with me in addition to the other points brought out in this post

Omega made some points on Eury but Omega is... another issue entirely since Shinori has a case on them right now so im examining them separately 

And I go to the latest page and what do I see:

36 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

????? well-founded by whom? Original wall post they had was...?

Sorry that was me losing my mind and like
not finishing my post :PPPPPPppppp
I guess it's time to look at your new post now, featuring TL;DR Edits! Neat ~

Your latest post has a lot of words, but I think you might need a bit more than that to clear your name
I looked at your Omega post and... I dont't want to be sheepish but I agree
But you saying

51 minutes ago, Eurykins said:

Why is everyone assuming that BBM was my top play/case? 

Did you forget about your lynch priority char thingy? And the fact that you voted him?
Unless I missed a post or something there that changed :thinking:

 

1 hour ago, Propeller Knight said:

that seems like you're dropping that suggestion super easily

That's cause there's not much of a case on you
I was only saying it cause it bothered me and I wanted to make it apparent

[Arcanite]

Once I read about Omega I'll decide my biggest read

and then say who im okay with lynching

so much reading 

Spoiler

 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1 hour ago, Refa said:

Why does Scum!Mayor make the game scumsided?  If I can just check Snike off the lynch priority for the rest of the game, that's cool, but this confuses me and multiple people have said it.

I don't know honestly, this whole situation just bugs me and I can't explain it.  Is the deathproof conditional?  Is Prims faking the role?  Is the end of day kill a limited scum ability or just an SK factional kill (bringing this up because SB had an end of day kill SK in a previous small game, but the SK didn't activate immediately)?  Is Prims' role more likely to be SK or mafia?  Every time I look into this game I feel so lost and don't know where to proceed.  

Good post, I don't want to lynch Refa anymore. His cautiousness and confusion here is a good look.

I'll lynch Bard, Walrein, Eurykins, or Prims. I won't cry over Eury or Prims, but I'm feeling better about Bard or even Walrein. Yeah I know Walrein hasn't posted, but him falling off completely gives me a really bad feeling and if there's any scum on that earlier Prims wagon it's him. That said, Eury is wrong on me, and I don't think Refa or BBM are good plays either, I'm not crazy about her scumlist but I haven't played with her before and people I'd rather stay alive (Via/Shinori) have said she's town so she could just be wrong. I think Bard or Walrein are our best bets, I just realized Bard has kept his vote on Shinori all game and with Refa off the table for me Bard shoots up. At least Eury or Prims have tried/pretended to hunt scum.

[Arcanite]

1 hour ago, Omega. said:

Town are likelier to make bad pushes, but scum HAVE to make bad pushes.

Doesn't this mean all or at least most pushes are bad?

[Refa]

Making a post very slowly but multiple people have mentioned Walrein being absent and I'm PRETTY SURE it's because he's meeting up w/some SF people IRL today.  He could be scum using that as an excuse but it's at least not something I want to rag on him on today.

[Percivalé]

1 hour ago, Omega. said:

What about the property of it being lynchproof in addition to bulletproof makes you think that lessens its chance of being scum?

mafia having a lynchproof in 4/9 makes me

but now thinking it over i'm more and more paranoid of the claim. really shouldn't try to overthink it i reckon

[Percivalé]

if we end up lynching bard in the end i'd be cool w/ that