Aether Raids General Thread

[DehNutCase]

@Jingle Jangle Mind that my main team kind of really want fair fights. They can handle the rare 5v6 that's built badly (read: WoM actually triggers), but the team's built around 4v4s (and can be extended to 5v5s by adding another dancer).

The team also hates having Eir on the team, so you're flat out not allowed to use it to climb to T21. (It can handle one copy vs. a easy map, but two copies means you have to use Legendary Azura as the dancer, and that's some freaky whaley territory.)

 

So my personal recommendation would be to pull until you have 2 Eir, find a unit with good base Def + Res (70 would be ideal, but anything around 60 should be fine as long as the unit is Def biased), slap a light blessing on it, and just have that unit 1v6 the entire enemy lineup. During Anima season you'd just chill and not climb (but do enough fights that you don't de-rank).

 

If you're still interested in the Galeforce team I wouldn't mind doing a write-up on how to build it, though.

[Ice Dragon]

Rank 2,114 this week. I'll finally have a 6-unit team on defense next week.

My Surtr + Winter Fae core has been doing pretty well this season as Fae is capable of taking only single-digit damage from enemy Aversas and can one-round kill them on the counterattack. Legendary Tiki has Svalinn Shield to cover the very common Festival Micaiahs.

Ophelia got to see three maps this season in my backup team. I need to find a way to put Infantry Flash on her team so that I don't have to constantly be playing around Steady Stance 4.

 

Having to do my runs every single godforsaken day is still a goddamn chore, though. I really wish they'd either tone down the competitive aspect (this mode should never have been competitive in the first place) or at least make it not so time-dependent.

It's a sad thing when Arena is still a better-designed competitive game mode than this. Hell, I think even Grand Conquest is better-designed, as much as I hate the mode.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[DehNutCase]

17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Having to do my runs every single godforsaken day is still a goddamn chore, though. I really wish they'd either tone down the competitive aspect (this mode should never have been competitive in the first place) or at least make it not so time-dependent.

It's a sad thing when Arena is still a better game mode than this.

I feel like a lot of the reason AR is competitive is because a lot of people thought PvP defense teams are easy just because Arena was easy, so they probably sent in a lot of suggestions about making a purely performance based mode.

 

They had no idea the kind of crap top players can cook up if performance was literally the only factor that mattered.

The worst part is that seeing this coming didn't help one iota.

 

On the plus side we're high enough that we do get to take 'days off' and still keep top 3k now. (I'm still debating whether I want to actually tryhard next week or not---8 days is better than having the Aether Fountain upgrade in terms of extra Aether, but 3.1 needs to hit really early in the week for me to have all the teams I'd want to use, since I need to use Legendaries to make up for my lack of Light Blessings.)

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I feel like a lot of the reason AR is competitive is because a lot of people thought PvP defense teams are easy just because Arena was easy, so they probably sent in a lot of suggestions about making a purely performance based mode.

Arena would be easy with or without scoring based on performance due to the fact that you can't control the map that gets picked in each round.

 

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

They had no idea the kind of crap top players can cook up if performance was literally the only factor that mattered.

I'm pretty sure they did because that's literally what the developers have been doing since the first Grand Hero Battle was released.

 

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

On the plus side we're high enough that we do get to take 'days off' and still keep top 3k now.

You might be, but I'm not. I'm consistently outside of the top 3,000 when I start my daily runs if I do them an hour before the daily reset.

[DehNutCase]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Arena would be easy with or without scoring based on performance due to the fact that you can't control the map that gets picked in each round.

You don't have to be good for every map, though. Arena doesn't let you run multiple teams, so things like 'Fuck Surtr, in particular' 4 Axe-Breaker lineups are a lot more viable independent of most of the maps. (Some arena maps are just straight up freebies no matter what you do, admittedly.)

With performance based defense teams the best defense teams would be the ones that either utterly dominate a select few maps for that particular season or the ones that utterly dominate a select few teams for that particular season.

 

As those teams get filtered to the top getting 5 deathless in a row should get pretty difficult for the average player. (Although, admittedly, I don't see it being a problem for, say, the average player in SF---we're a pretty hardcore bunch.)

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm pretty sure they did because that's literally what the developers have been doing since the first Grand Hero Battle was released.

The devs have been pretty polite in GHBs and such, though. We rarely see Distant/Close counter, so offensive teams with mixed attack ranges is naturally favored already. Sweep effects are also relatively uncommon, meaning defensive teams usually only have to snipe one or two people on player phase before going back to doing their thing.

GHBs and such are also 'normal' fire emblem in that restarting an attempt costs nothing, so them being hard didn't matter that much. In AR we get 2 escape ropes for 400 rocks, 3 for 900 rocks, and that's just cry worthy.

[Ice Dragon]

26 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

With performance based defense teams the best defense teams would be the ones that either utterly dominate a select few maps for that particular season or the ones that utterly dominate a select few teams for that particular season.

Except that there really aren't any such teams and maps. Almost every map puts the defending team at a disadvantage either because the map is symmetric, but allows the challenger to rearrange their team, or because the map is asymmetric and gives the challenger the advantage.

A well-built offense team played competently always wins without unit losses.

The current Arena meta of "score v. score" is not mutually exclusive with "performance v. performance". We're still building teams for performance, just with restrictions on what units and skills we're allowed to use. In fact, it's not really "score v. score" at all in that sense. It's still "performance v. performance", but with a different ban list on what you're allowed to use.

 

30 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The devs have been pretty polite in GHBs and such, though.

Them being polite and not being dicks has nothing to do with knowing how to be a dick. And I'm pretty sure they damned well know how to be dicks, meaning they would have known just how much dickery would be possible with the map-making functionality of Aether Raids.

[DehNutCase]

28 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Except that there really aren't any such teams and maps. Almost every map puts the defending team at a disadvantage either because the map is symmetric, but allows the challenger to rearrange their team, or because the map is asymmetric and gives the challenger the advantage.

A well-built offense team played competently always wins without unit losses.

The current Arena meta of "score v. score" is not mutually exclusive with "performance v. performance". We're still building teams for performance, just with restrictions on what units and skills we're allowed to use. In fact, it's not really "score v. score" at all in that sense. It's still "performance v. performance", but with a different ban list on what you're allowed to use.

Not everyone is competent, though. The best defense teams would snipe the crap out of bad players, rather than the first rate players you straight up can't do anything about.

 

And from looking at AR replays the first rate players seem pretty damn rare. It wasn't until I hit T19 that I started consistently getting people on my level hitting my defense teams. Although, admittedly, top 3K might be absurd overkill amounts of skill for arena.

28 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Them being polite and not being dicks has nothing to do with knowing how to be a dick. And I'm pretty sure they damned well know how to be dicks, meaning they would have known just how much dickery would be possible with the map-making functionality of Aether Raids.

Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that the players had a pretty good idea of the kind of crap other players can stuff into a defense team.

Edit: I see the mistake now. By 'they' I meant 'other players' and not 'the devs,' lul.

 

 

But the devs might've been like me and way overestimated the average level of the people playing FEH---like, before AR I would've guessed that I was around average for SF.* If they get a lot of requests from players who say that arena is too easy and a performance based mode is needed the devs would assume that it's very good players saying that they're getting bored out of their skulls, and, because they're good players, they have a pretty good idea how cancerous a pure performance based mode would be, and are asking for a mode like that to be put in regardless.

*I was pretty sure I was good, but there was also the small chance that I was so bad that I'm straight up delusional, so it balanced out.

Edited January 7, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Othin]

29 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Them being polite and not being dicks has nothing to do with knowing how to be a dick. And I'm pretty sure they damned well know how to be dicks, meaning they would have known just how much dickery would be possible with the map-making functionality of Aether Raids.

Seems to me the earlier GHBs help illustrate this, with maps like Robin and Xander with heavily overlapping enemy ranges. They moved away from that, concluding that more drawn-out battles were more interesting than just making more "can you survive the turn where the enemies start moving" traps.

[Diovani Bressan]

Today I accepted that I will not reach Tier 19 so soon, so I am just playing to maintain my place on Tier 18.

[Garlyle]

Saw this picture somewhere, it is intriguing

[Hilda]

one Falchion user and Raventome is all it takes to murder them. That defense Team isnt well made.

[Diovani Bressan]

48 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Saw this picture somewhere, it is intriguing

43 minutes ago, Hilda said:

one Falchion user and Raventome is all it takes to murder them. That defense Team isnt well made.

Yeah... Eir has pretty low defense, so any unit with distant counter and high attack can destroy all Eirs. Aversa and Hríd could be useful here. For Winter Fae, the 98 Res surprised me. She is a +Res Fae (Base 44 + 4 from merges + 4 from bonus unit + 4 from refined weapon + 6 from probably Res Tactic + 6 from Fortress Def/Res + 5 from Fortress Res + 25 from Eir).  However, her Res is nothing against a close range unit. Any Falchion user can easily defeat her, especially because this Fae has Dull Ranged instead of Dull Close. Legendary Marth, with his Binding Shield and Exalted Falchion would destroy her. The main problem with Fae is her Glacies, but Binding Shield can be useful in this case, or if the Falchion user has Guard, or in the case of this image, a Halloween Mia

 

[mampfoid]

Honestly no idea how I should proceed this week. 

I should try to promote to tier 20, because of light week and one-time chance of a eight days season. 

My first idea was a team of L!Robin, Eir, Eir, S!Micaiah (light blessing), Minizura (light blessing), but I don't know if they'll be able to beat everything. Could run Cordelia +10 instead of Robin, but she'll miss her usual Tactic buffs. 

My defense map didn't get any kills for a week ... 

[Opdepov]

Im so tired of Aether raids.. But I want those grails... 

Ive all but given up on defense wins and just made a silly themed defense that might at least be somewhat fun for some people. It should at least be a free win to any not terrible player. I'll just try to at least get enough points each day to remain in Tier19, but the defense teams I'm encountering are starting to become a royal pain. At least light season will allow more room for error.

[Water Mage]

1 hour ago, Garlyle said:

Saw this picture somewhere, it is intriguing

 

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

one Falchion user and Raventome is all it takes to murder them. That defense Team isnt well made.

Hell, a single Lyon with his Pfr tome and Triangle adept utterly destroys this team.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Water Mage

[mcsilas]

I somehow got the gold throne in my second account :O

Well that's all my goals done for AR pretty much. I only wanted Tier 19 to get the last defense member slot since I like the map building part moreso than anything else, and ranks don't matter too much to me.

Was 200 lift short of Tier 19 in my main though, so restarting in Tier 18 again this season (Had 2 wipeouts, one from a very well-made Lunge L'Ephraim setup). At least Blessings bonus should help.

[Ice Dragon]

5 hours ago, Garlyle said:

Saw this picture somewhere, it is intriguing

I ran into that team a two weeks ago, except they had Surtr instead of Fae for the bonus stats.

 

3 hours ago, Water Mage said:

Hell, a single Lyon with his Pfr tome and Triangle adept utterly destroys this team.

+5 Lyon [=] (Naglfar, Triangle Adept 3, Attack +3) +6/0/0/0 has only 82 effective Atk against Fae. Which does zero damage to her 98 Res.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Rinco]

Using Surtr, W!Cecilia, Aversa and 2 Eirs this week. So far it's going pretty easy. Should be able to get to Tier 20 without much trouble.
First def of the day was also a succes, so 0 lift lost today.

[Roflolxp54]

Man, the January update just can't come soon enough (currently tier 19 so 110+ Aether per non-free raid is just... oof).

[XRay]

24 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Man, the January update just can't come soon enough (currently tier 19 so 110+ Aether per non-free raid is just... oof).

Yeah, it feels pretty stupid that I have to run a different team and incorporate Eir to get to Tier 21 instead of just running my same old Arena team.

[DehNutCase]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I ran into that team a two weeks ago, except they had Surtr instead of Fae for the bonus stats.

I like how they're deliberately banking on the attacker being bad and not covering ultra blessed armors. (This isn't a critique of the defense team---my defense teams have been shifting to the same concept of 'I hope the guy attacking me isn't first rate.')

 

Running Fae feels a bit weird, though, considering the amount of 'Fuck Surtr, in particular' builds that should be hanging around from last season*, and her lower def means that she's a lot more vulnerable to armorsmasher than he was. A red armor should be better. On the plus side, 35 Atk is pretty much noodle arms these days, so Micaiah does all of jack all to Fae, especially considering the festival variant can't be danced.

*Like, say, TA-3 Laevatein with full buffs.

Edited January 7, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Ice Dragon]

55 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Running Fae feels a bit weird, though, considering the amount of 'Fuck Surtr, in particular' builds that should be hanging around from last season*,

If my defense replays are anything to go by, "Fuck Surtr in particular" builds are typically just Festival Micaiah or a red tome with Axebreaker, both of which are completely shut down by that Fae.

[Water Mage]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

 

 

+5 Lyon [=] (Naglfar, Triangle Adept 3, Attack +3) +6/0/0/0 has only 82 effective Atk against Fae. Which does zero damage to her 98 Res.

To be fair, I was talking about the Eir team not Winter Fae. Though I do see your point. That being said a merged Falchion user can deal with Winter Fae easily.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

To be fair, I was talking about the Eir team not Winter Fae. Though I do see your point. That being said a merged Falchion user can deal with Winter Fae easily.

Fae is like the only thing that's at all threatening on that team, though.

[MonkeyCheez3K]

My defense team is now Dragon Kindergarten, because who cares (also wasting good resources on 2 grails and 10 pebbles more seems .... not optimal):

Spoiler

Can't even upload a screenshot directly, something about 40kb limit, lol, was the limit changed recently?

Ninian next to the tactic room and all the books, telling a story by the fireplace. Myrrh, Fae, Kana and Nowi all gathered around to listen to her story after exhausting themselves completing the snowman family.

Everyone only has their Fortify/Hone Dragons with Ninian also keeping her singing skill, coz they feel cozy together, and F!Grima standing in the corner, desperately longing to be part of it, but unable to admit it. If you want to murder this, be my guest, you monster.

The longer season should let me get into Tier 20 easily if my math skills aren't abysmal and counter teams aren't too frequent. After that, Season 21 will be impossible, so whatever and many shrugs once more. Might even turn my Myrrh back into an Earth-Dragon then due to this game mode being super arse, i mean unfun, and build a Raven F!Robin or something; whoever gets the job done well enough to keep me in Tier 20.

Screw this mode also for limiting you to 5 teams, but not being able to just lock the skills in them. I use those units elsewhere as well, stop making me go through the tedious skill menus to change stuff back and forth to how I want them. There is always that one skill, that one seal suddenly missing somewhere else when i do that because it's way too cumbersome and bloated. I can finally lock a defense team in AR (why still not in Arena, tho.... IS, you're just monkeys sometimes), so let me lock my offense as well if one has to be limited to five teams. Right now I just go in with the same team without looking at the enemy comp, because I just can't be bothered.

It pisses me off to no end that Arena Assault is the only "PvP" mode I enjoy now.... initially the worst, now it's the best. If I didn't currently have ludicrous luck in pulling units, I'd be even more worked up.