Book IV Official Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Sentinel07]

So, we now have another McGuffin. First that incense from Henriette and now Gullenkembi from Freyr. Wonder how it'll all go down. Looks like we'll probably fight Triandra and Plumeria together in the next chapter.

They're certainly trying to make this whole Kiran situation mysterious. Wonder what it'll lead to.

And now we also have this childish mystery voice.

Edit: Oh, would you look at that. They actually updated the official website. We have Freyr and Plumeria now. Freyr has Travant's VA.

https://fire-emblem-heroes.com/en/

Edited January 9, 2020 by Sentinel07

[Etrurian emperor]

14 hours ago, XRay said:

I think the fan service is fine in Fates. Camilla is the doting intimate older sister that contrasts with Hinoka who is beat-the-crap-out-of-your-bullies type. Elise is no more fan service than Sakura in my opinion; I prefer a more hyperactive cuddly sibling than a super shy reserved sibling.

I do not see how Midori is considered fan service.

Both Elise and Sakura are based around the most common loli trops. Elise is the cute cheerful one and Sakura is the cute shy one. Between these two Elise seems the most fanservicy since she takes her cute little sister tropes with all she got and never ever lets go. Sakura does occasionally man up and stops being shy which makes me think she's a more nuanced character. 

Well Midori is a loli you can marry and put a baby in. Some fans would consider themselves inherently served by that. And while not exactly to the extend of Kana the writers seem to have put a lot of work into making Midori as cute and wholesome as they could. 

Also I don't think people need to worry much about the fairy of lewd dreams. She seems pretty tame so far. She certainly got a skimpy outfits but that seems to be the running theme in fairy world. The dialogue isn't all that lewd. Its not like she's drooling over Alfonse or wants to see Pheony and Sharena make out. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Etrurian emperor

[Othin]

7 hours ago, XRay said:

She is from the desert though, and desert is hot. Additionally, while she does not like to attract attention, she should dress however she wants. Drawing attention be damned; physical comfort is first.

If you look up the clothing people actually wear in the desert, you'll notice that they cover up more, not less. "It's hot" isn't the full story.

As for "dressing however she wants", she doesn't have wants, because she's a fictional character. She dresses the way the people designing her outfit want her to dress. There's a reason fictional women wear fetish outfits in public a lot more often than real-life women do.

[DefyingFates]

8 minutes ago, Othin said:

If you look up the clothing people actually wear in the desert, you'll notice that they cover up more, not less. "It's hot" isn't the full story.

As for "dressing however she wants", she doesn't have wants, because she's a fictional character. She dresses the way the people designing her outfit want her to dress. There's a reason fictional women wear fetish outfits in public a lot more often than real-life women do.

This. This so much. Especially the second paragraph. Thank you.

Edited January 9, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Flere210]

The second paragraph pretty much invalid fiction entirely.

-Griffith did nothing wrong, he only did what he did because Miura made him do.

-There is nothing noble about Madoka's wish. She only made the wish that The Butcher decided.

-Yang Wenli is not a genius, he only win battles because Yoshiki Tanaka said so.

Fictional characters obviously can only do what the authors made them to, but their decision can and should feel like their own.

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Both Elise and Sakura are based around the most common loli trops. Elise is the cute cheerful one and Sakura is the cute shy one. Between these two Elise seems the most fanservicy since she takes her cute little sister tropes with all she got and never ever lets go. Sakura does occasionally man up and stops being shy which makes me think she's a more nuanced character. 

Well Midori is a loli you can marry and put a baby in. Some fans would consider themselves inherently served by that. And while not exactly to the extend of Kana the writers seem to have put a lot of work into making Midori as cute and wholesome as they could. 

Some fan will like lolis and younger looking characters regardless of what you do. I see no problem in pandering to them. Not all of them are out there molesting real children. Demonizing them as some sort of criminals is not right.

33 minutes ago, Othin said:

As for "dressing however she wants", she doesn't have wants, because she's a fictional character. She dresses the way the people designing her outfit want her to dress. There's a reason fictional women wear fetish outfits in public a lot more often than real-life women do.

That is the same for all characters. Picking on Tharja for wearing less clothes and skimpy outfits but not Hawkeye, Vaike, Odin, etc. does not sound right.

[DefyingFates]

2 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

but their decision can and should feel like their own.

But that contradicts @Othin's first sentence. You don't dress down in a desert, you try to cover up so you don't get burned. And that's not getting into Tharja's apparent desire to be unnoticed.

@XRay: FWIW, I think those male outfits are ridiculous too. Especially Odin's.

Edited January 9, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Othin]

7 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

The second paragraph pretty much invalid fiction entirely.

-Griffith did nothing wrong, he only did what he did because Miura made him do.

-There is nothing noble about Madoka's wish. She only made the wish that The Butcher decided.

-Yang Wenli is not a genius, he only win battles because Yoshiki Tanaka said so.

Fictional characters obviously can only do what the authors made them to, but their decision can and should feel like their own.

Yes, their decisions should feel like their own. Characters doing clever or noble or bad things in situations where that makes sense fits that goal. Fictional women having a much higher tendency to wear fetish outfits in public than real-life women does not.

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is the same for all characters. Picking on Tharja for wearing less clothes and skimpy outfits but not Hawkeye, Vaike, Odin, etc. does not sound right.

I'm not "picking on Tharja". I'm picking on the people who made her outfit.

Hawkeye is shirtless. Shirtlessness is not a fetish outfit. Vaike and Odin are in weird partially-open outfits, so I'd say they can count as a kind of fetish outfit - they aren't completely female-exclusive. However, they're noticeably more common and on average more extreme with the female characters than with the male ones.

[Flere210]

6 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

But that contradicts @Othin's first sentence. You don't dress down in a desert, you try to cover up so you don't get burned. And that's not getting into Tharja's apparent desire to be unnoticed.

I was talking in general. That said, desert people don't cover up, desert nomads do. Ancient egyptians are mostly portrayed in light clothing in hieroglyphics. 

I don't think that Tharja enjoy wearing those things, at least before meeting Robin. She wears those thing because they are the dress code of her job. Generic dark mages, both male and female dress like that, and Henry is... eccentric even by dark mages standars. 

[Etrurian emperor]

30 minutes ago, XRay said:

Some fan will like lolis and younger looking characters regardless of what you do. I see no problem in pandering to them. Not all of them are out there molesting real children. Demonizing them as some sort of criminals is not right.

Personally I''m not particularly troubled by it. Fire Emblem has tons of cute loli's in all shapes and forms and I'm fine with that. Some even get fanservice alts which is more or less fine. If they're great like Sakura and Nino I even like them a lot. However with that said I do think having a child with them without time travel to make it less creepy is a bit much. I'm fine with lolicons being pandered too, (or shotacons since what can be said for Sakura can also be said for Kiragi or Percy) but I do like it to stay within reason. Its fine if its present but if it starts to intrude I get annoyed. 

I don't find fanservice problematic in itself and I'm capable of enjoying it. But there is a certain line and the problem with Fates is that it very frequently crosses that line. Where that line is depends on the player but considering the controversy the line got crossed for many players. 

And while fanservice is fine I don't think characters should be based mostly around it. Elise and Lissa are based around the same cute, cheery little sister trope but Lissa seems to be a bit more than that which is why I do prefer her by a great amount. Meanwhile the problem people have with Camilla isn't just the fanservice but that the fanservice frequently swallows up the other parts of her character. Her more interesting traits take second fiddle to wanting to get into Corrin's pants. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Etrurian emperor

[XRay]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

@XRay: FWIW, I think those male outfits are ridiculous too. Especially Odin's.

I know my fashion sense is probably below average, but I do not think the outfit is that bad. There are a lot of ridiculous outfits in fantasy, so I think funny outfits comes with the genre.

I think the knights' and generals' armor in Awakening look kind of stupid, but I do not think it is that big of a deal.

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Hawkeye is shirtless. Shirtlessness is not a fetish outfit. Vaike and Odin are in weird partially-open outfits, so I'd say they can count as a kind of fetish outfit - they aren't completely female-exclusive. However, they're noticeably more common and on average more extreme with the female characters than with the male ones.

Shirtlessness is not technically an outfit, but it is definitely a fetish. It might not turn you on, but it definitely does for others.

While I agree that females are portrayed more often in outfits that look more fetishy, I am not opposed to female players demanding more male characters wearing more fetishy clothes either.

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't find fanservice problematic in itself and I'm capable of enjoying it. But there is a certain line and the problem with Fates is that it very frequently crosses that line. Where that line is depends on the player but considering the controversy the line got crossed for many players. 

I guess I just do not have a line. I do not think I have ever complained about too much fanservice.

- - - - - - -

Spoilers for story who have not played it yet.

Spoiler

Do NOT wake Kiran up yet! Plumeria is not harming Kiran. There is no need to be hasty, people. Kiran deserves a reward for spending a shit ton of Orbs for expanding the Order of Heroes. Let him rest and have a Sweet Dream from Plumeria.

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by XRay

[GrandeRampel]

4 hours ago, Othin said:

Hawkeye is shirtless. Shirtlessness is not a fetish outfit.

Hawkeye lives in a desert, and we just discussed that Tharja should cover herself more because that's what people do in deserts. Hawkeye is being just as dumb as Tharja for not protecting himself from the sun.

SMH such an unrealistic outfit, just for the sake of pandering to horny girls and gay boys who want to see naked chests.

Edited January 9, 2020 by GrandeRampel

[DefyingFates]

10 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

First that incense from Henriette and now Gullenkembi from Freyr.

Theory: the Askrans use the incense to disperse Triandra and Plumeria's influence so they can use Gullenkembi to escape.

The childish voices are Peony and Sharena as children. Maybe Peony tried to trick Sharena into staying, hence her not knowing who she was at the end?

As for Kiran, well...I'll just be happy if it's not Loki in disguise yet again. In any case, I'm glad they finally have a sprite now; maybe they'll have a bit more substance going forward too.

[Ottservia]

5 hours ago, Othin said:

Fictional women having a much higher tendency to wear fetish outfits in public than real-life women does not.

And why should that matter exactly? Fictional women aren’t real women so what exactly is the problem here? I am legitimately curious. Is anyone getting hurt from this? I don’t think so. I really do fail to see the issue here.

[DefyingFates]

34 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

And why should that matter exactly? Fictional women aren’t real women so what exactly is the problem here? I am legitimately curious. Is anyone getting hurt from this? I don’t think so. I really do fail to see the issue here.

Let's pull some role reversal here: if every game and anime objectified men at every opportunity instead, would you take offence to every character of your gender being treated as a piece of meat or say "Fictional men aren’t real men so what exactly is the problem here?"

Heck this extends to every demographic. If you were overweight would you be happy with every game having a fat guy to make fun of? If you were German would you be fine with a German character being the butt of Nazi jokes every episode/ cutscene? They aren't real either and those jokes may not factor into the plot, but would you be fine with them?

Edited January 9, 2020 by DefyingFates

[Sunwoo]

People who say "it's fictional, not real, so what's the problem" seriously lack understanding on just how much fiction can influence people's thinkings in real life, especially if the beliefs in question are ones that those people already hold or aren't completely opposed to. I've seen enough horror stories about people who read shitty books like Twilight, After, 50 Shades of Gray, and other shitty YA novels with bad love interests and ended up in abusive relationships or trying to imitate the awful male love interests in the stories because they thought it was romantic.

In a vacuum, sexy fan service isn't a problem. The problem comes when people become so desensitized it that all they can talk about is how much they want sexy fanservice and refuse to listen to people who are uncomfortable about it, or even acknowledge that maybe these people have legit reasons to feel that way. And yes, there are some people who let sexy fanservice start influencing their thoughts on what the opposite gender should be like or should cater to them.

[DefyingFates]

16 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

People who say "it's fictional, not real, so what's the problem" seriously lack understanding on just how much fiction can influence people's thinkings in real life, especially if the beliefs in question are ones that those people already hold or aren't completely opposed to. I've seen enough horror stories about people who read shitty books like Twilight, After, 50 Shades of Gray, and other shitty YA novels with bad love interests and ended up in abusive relationships or trying to imitate the awful male love interests in the stories because they thought it was romantic.

In a vacuum, sexy fan service isn't a problem. The problem comes when people become so desensitized it that all they can talk about is how much they want sexy fanservice and refuse to listen to people who are uncomfortable about it, or even acknowledge that maybe these people have legit reasons to feel that way. And yes, there are some people who let sexy fanservice start influencing their thoughts on what the opposite gender should be like or should cater to them.

This too.

For further reading, have a look at this thread from ResetEra:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/why-women-criticise-sexualised-character-designs-ot2-i-have-no-pants-and-i-must-scream-read-op.65064/

[Flere210]

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

People who say "it's fictional, not real, so what's the problem" seriously lack understanding on just how much fiction can influence people's thinkings in real life, especially if the beliefs in question are ones that those people already hold or aren't completely opposed to. I've seen enough horror stories about people who read shitty books like Twilight, After, 50 Shades of Gray, and other shitty YA novels with bad love interests and ended up in abusive relationships or trying to imitate the awful male love interests in the stories because they thought it was romantic.

I know, those thing have been discussed dince ancient Greece, and this only count the times we have recorded complains. Is the artist job to improve morality by making work that affecting society? Or is it to create beauty and entertrainment? And if we assume their job is the first, who get to decide wich morality should be promoted? 

We don't blame Goethe for the young men that killed themselves because "The sorrow of young Werther" made they think that it was the best way to deal whit an unhappy love life. 

13 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

In a vacuum, sexy fan service isn't a problem. The problem comes when people become so desensitized it that all they can talk about is how much they want sexy fanservice and refuse to listen to people who are uncomfortable about it, or even acknowledge that maybe these people have legit reasons to feel that way. 

I feel uncomfortable whit fanservice myself, but i understand that there is a place for things i despise in the world (tbf, i despise so many things that i need this mindset or i would go insane lol). Certain thing are clearly made for horny teenage boys, i am not an horny teenage boy so i may look for something different instead. And it's not like things made for horny teenagee boys are so prevalent in other media,  they are just often popular because the kind of people that consume them is also the kind of people that spend lots of time on the internet. Videogame has been monopolized by teenage boys for so long that is normal that it will take time for thing aimed at any other kind of people to distance themselves from the root. 

 

[Ottservia]

3 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Let's pull some role reversal here: if every game and anime objectified men at every opportunity instead, would you take offence to every character of your gender being treated as a piece of meat or say "Fictional men aren’t real men so what exactly is the problem here?"

Would I care if that happens? No not really cause I can just ignore it. If it’s there it’s there. No actual men are getting hurt now are they? I’m not bothered by it because I understand that I’m not the demographic and I’m not the one who designed the characters. I’m not gonna police what an artist can or cannot draw/write. I will criticize the execution of such things but I won’t tell an artist they have no right to create anything no matter how horny it is. If a guy wants to draw a girl with big anime tiddies and have that be her only defining character trait then fine. He is completely within his rights to do so. If I’m bothered by it that’s my business. That doesn’t mean I won’t criticize it’s execution. All I’m saying is that I won’t criticize a game like Senran Kagura for its fan service cause why else would anyone play Senren Kagura. If you’re bothered by a sexy character design for being sexy, then that’s more your problem than the problem of the design in question. I’m not saying you shouldn’t feel bothered by it because it’s perfectly fine to feel that way just know that not everyone should feel that way or that it’s “problematic” because it isn’t. Sometimes a guy just wanna makes a bombastic anime booby game with cute girls that are constantly put into sexual situations because he is horny and there is nothing wrong with that. Likewise sometimes a girl wants to draw some Yaoi porn because she’s horny and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Ottservia

[Sunwoo]

3 hours ago, Flere210 said:

I know, those thing have been discussed dince ancient Greece, and this only count the times we have recorded complains. Is the artist job to improve morality by making work that affecting society? Or is it to create beauty and entertrainment? And if we assume their job is the first, who get to decide wich morality should be promoted? 

We don't blame Goethe for the young men that killed themselves because "The sorrow of young Werther" made they think that it was the best way to deal whit an unhappy love life.

One can create beauty and entertainment without glorifying things that are known to be objectively terrible. Also, it's not the author's fault if someone just runs away with their own interpretation of the author's work. Like, glorifying a character whose actions were never meant to be glorified because said character is good-looking. But when the author actively refuses to acknowledge criticism saying that they're promoting and romanticizing an unhealthy relationship and even says that anyone who criticizes their work is just jealous or doesn't know what they're talking about is when we get problems. At least one of those authors above is known for doing that. Writing about things that are "bad" isn't the issue. It's when these "bad" things are glorified and excused and made "acceptable" that is the issue.

3 hours ago, Flere210 said:

I feel uncomfortable whit fanservice myself, but i understand that there is a place for things i despise in the world (tbf, i despise so many things that i need this mindset or i would go insane lol). Certain thing are clearly made for horny teenage boys, i am not an horny teenage boy so i may look for something different instead. And it's not like things made for horny teenagee boys are so prevalent in other media,  they are just often popular because the kind of people that consume them is also the kind of people that spend lots of time on the internet. Videogame has been monopolized by teenage boys for so long that is normal that it will take time for thing aimed at any other kind of people to distance themselves from the root. 

I mean, I've already expressed several times that I'm not exactly the target audience for Heroes or for modern FE. But the thing is, video games aren't just for teenage boys anymore. Lots of girls and women play games now, and the video game industry would to be smart to take note of that and act accordingly.

Also, it's not particularly fair to expect people to "go look for something that is meant for you" if the thing you enjoy has no other substitute. For example, FE Heroes is the ONLY game that brings together FE games from all of the different FE eras that still adds new characters in. If I want to see my favorite characters from old FEs fighting alongside my other favorite FE characters, Heroes is the only real option. And because I realize I'm not the target audience, I'm trying to limit my complaints about fanservice and waifus even if it annoys me, but my patience has limits when people can't seem to understand why other people may have an issue with fanservice and that it's not just "fiction".

[Ottservia]

12 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I mean, I've already expressed several times that I'm not exactly the target audience for Heroes or for modern FE. But the thing is, video games aren't just for teenage boys anymore. Lots of girls and women play games now, and the video game industry would to be smart to take note of that and act accordingly.

Also, it's not particularly fair to expect people to "go look for something that is meant for you" if the thing you enjoy has no other substitute. For example, FE Heroes is the ONLY game that brings together FE games from all of the different FE eras that still adds new characters in. If I want to see my favorite characters from old FEs fighting alongside my other favorite FE characters, Heroes is the only real option. And because I realize I'm not the target audience, I'm trying to limit my complaints about fanservice and waifus even if it annoys me, but my patience has limits when people can't seem to understand why other people may have an issue with fanservice and that it's not just "fiction".

well yeah but not every game is meant for everyone. That's just how it is. People are allowed to like different things and artists are allowed to create whatever they want for whoever they want. If a guy wants to draw titties let him draw titties. Like it's one thing to criticize the implementation of fanservice but it's another thing entirely to criticize it for simply existing. If it annoys you then that's fine, that is a valid opinion to have but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be there simply because some people are uncomfortable with it which I think you realize but I think its something that needs to be said regardless. I understand why some people would have an issue with it but an author/artist should not feel the need to dial it back simply because a few people said they didn't like it. It would be one thing if it actually detracted from the product in question(I.E fates) but if it's implemented properly then I don't really see much of an issue with it. 

19 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

It's when these "bad" things are glorified and excused and made "acceptable" that is the issue.

well then what does "glorified" necessarily mean in this context. Take porn for example, Rape and incest porn are very popular tags that people search up. Videos like that often fetishize such heinous acts yet I don't see anyone complaining because we all know it's not real. Most rational people can separate reality from fiction. Or take my favorite song of all time, Rolling Girl, that song is definitely about Anxiety, depression, and suicide and the way it ends is that the only way for the girl to find peace is to well take her own life. It can be seen as a "glorification" of suicide if you look at it a certain way because it's the only way for the girl to find peace. Then there are stories like death note where the main character descends into an insanity driven serial killing sociopath with a god complex but the narrative constantly rewards him for it. Does that fall under "glorification"?

[XRay]

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Let's pull some role reversal here: if every game and anime objectified men at every opportunity instead, would you take offence to every character of your gender being treated as a piece of meat or say "Fictional men aren’t real men so what exactly is the problem here?"

I do not mind. It is just muscles, mustaches, dong armor, abs, and whatever girls find sexy. I have watched whole Twilight movie series and I have no problem with how they portray the dudes.

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Heck this extends to every demographic. If you were overweight would you be happy with every game having a fat guy to make fun of? If you were German would you be fine with a German character being the butt of Nazi jokes every episode/ cutscene? They aren't real either and those jokes may not factor into the plot, but would you be fine with them?

I am Asian and I frequently make stereotypical jokes about poor driving, less endowed, crap eyesight, etc.

6 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

People who say "it's fictional, not real, so what's the problem" seriously lack understanding on just how much fiction can influence people's thinkings in real life, especially if the beliefs in question are ones that those people already hold or aren't completely opposed to. I've seen enough horror stories about people who read shitty books like Twilight, After, 50 Shades of Gray, and other shitty YA novels with bad love interests and ended up in abusive relationships or trying to imitate the awful male love interests in the stories because they thought it was romantic.

I do not believe that. People have fear mongered against the printing press, radio, television, Dungeons & Dragons, and now videogames. Yes, there are people who cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, but those are far and few in between. In my opinion, blaming the media for the ills of society is wrong and kicking the responsibility bucket down to another person instead of owning up to it.

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

I mean, I've already expressed several times that I'm not exactly the target audience for Heroes or for modern FE. But the thing is, video games aren't just for teenage boys anymore. Lots of girls and women play games now, and the video game industry would to be smart to take note of that and act accordingly.

The gaming industry has taken note of that. Not all games are marketed for everyone, some target a more narrow audience than others. Some are more targeted for men, some are more targeted for women. Some are for younger people, some are for older people.

We have games like Mario and Pokémon that are targeted at all demographics. Touken Ranbu is targeted towards women. KanColle is targeted towards men.

I agree that women do have less options than men right now, but I think time is going to fix that eventually, as more women spend money on games and become developers themselves.

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Also, it's not particularly fair to expect people to "go look for something that is meant for you" if the thing you enjoy has no other substitute. For example, FE Heroes is the ONLY game that brings together FE games from all of the different FE eras that still adds new characters in. If I want to see my favorite characters from old FEs fighting alongside my other favorite FE characters, Heroes is the only real option. And because I realize I'm not the target audience, I'm trying to limit my complaints about fanservice and waifus even if it annoys me, but my patience has limits when people can't seem to understand why other people may have an issue with fanservice and that it's not just "fiction".

I agree that it is difficult to find a substitute for a series like Fire Emblem and that is a valid argument. One of the series' biggest strength is its ability to connect players to individual characters, and that is not something that you can move between different games, unlike more broad/vague concepts like having good gameplay or a well written story. If a player just wants to have TBS gameplay, they can simply go play Langrisser or Final Fantasy Tactics. If they want something more specific like playing Ike, Fire Emblem is the only option for them.

What I am annoyed by people who constantly complain about fanservice is that they often kink shame others and they sometimes blow things out of proportion. Instead of simple responses like "I wish they put on more clothes" or "that outfit does not look right," a lot of responses are often like "ew" and "disgusting" and it sometimes degenerates into "pedophiles are sick," "damn incest fans," etc. And occasionally, I see them make big fuss about innocent things like Sanaki in a wedding dress or Hector taking Lilina into battle.

Edited January 10, 2020 by XRay

[Sentinel07]

Can I just step in here and say this discussion seems to be getting out of hand?

Not trying to push anyone around or ruin anyone's mood....but this discussion really seems to have gotten off-topic. I mean, it's a Book 4 topic yet it's gone into an ongoing fanservice debate and I'm not sure if this is the right place for it.

Again, not trying to push anyone around here, but think the debate could be moved over into it's own thread or something?

[Sunwoo]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

I do not believe that. People have fear mongered against the printing press, radio, television, Dungeons & Dragons, and now videogames. Yes, there are people who cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, but those are far and few in between. In my opinion, blaming the media for the ills of society is wrong and kicking the responsibility bucket down to another person instead of owning up to it.

I don't care if you don't believe it, because whether you believe it or not doesn't change the fact that there are some people who are more impressionable than others, or that they read things at an impressionable age because said reading material was marketed to their demographic. There's a difference between people who fearmonger about all things in general they want to use as a scapegoat, and specific things that can affect impressionable young minds because the creator is irresponsible. Honestly, your "I do not believe that" just makes me wonder if you even bothered to look.

What I am annoyed by people who constantly complain about fanservice is that they often kink shame others and they sometimes blow things out of proportion. Instead of simple responses like "I wish they put on more clothes" or "that outfit does not look right," a lot of responses are often like "ew" and "disgusting" and it sometimes degenerates into "pedophiles are sick," "damn incest fans," etc. And occasionally, I see them make big fuss about innocent things like Sanaki in a wedding dress or Hector taking Lilina into battle.

Yeah, and that's totally fair, but I'm also made uncomfortable by how some people on here just have absolutely no fucking desire to listen to people who do have an issue with it who are more civil, like our opinions don't matter because they think it's fine. I'm also tired of people saying, "stop taking it so seriously, it's fiction" like our opinion doesn't matter.

Also, this is a topic that has been beaten to death before but Sanaki in a wedding dress is not 100% innocent. This is a gacha game and lately FE has become known as "Waifu Emblem". It was a deliberate choice that the developers made. Also, there's a reason pedophilia is illegal. Like ... if you're a person who has issues with people saying "pedophiles are sick" then I really have nothing more to say to you and I'm just done forever.

EDIT: Book 4 ... I don't know. Fairies be fairies, I guess. I have no idea where this is heading, don't really have a guess.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Sunwoo

[Interdimensional Observer]

Fairy with short shorts:

Spoiler

Fairy in thong (top):

Spoiler

Fairy queen with bust:

Spoiler

 

 

....When is a mod going to start pulverizing people into pixie dust for too serious/toxic/off topic? This is nice conversation sometimes, but the fruit then rots odorously.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer