Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Lightcosmo]

I would also say that they "magic" in the FF world was done away with later on as well. Not the literal magic, either. Just what came with the setting/storylines of older FF.

[Capt. Fargus]

28 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

This. They went way off normal FF style gameplay, which is what the fans loved.

Well, to be fair I liked the remakes of the original better than the actual original

[Armagon]

Gonna go through the saga in chronological order.

1 hour ago, Lightcosmo said:

This. They went way off normal FF style gameplay, which is what the fans loved.

I mean, does FF style gameplay stay consistently the same? It was turn-based the first time, then they went ATB, then they did MMO-like, then they did action with the 7 remakes. 

[Capt. Fargus]

27 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I mean, does FF style gameplay stay consistently the same? It was turn-based the first time, then they went ATB, then they did MMO-like, then they did action with the 7 remakes. 

Turn based at least up to 6. Mighta went further but I haven’t tried any of that ones after that

[Acacia Sgt]

X revisited turn based, at least. Though more as going individually than having everyone act at the "same" time.

[Lightcosmo]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I mean, does FF style gameplay stay consistently the same? It was turn-based the first time, then they went ATB, then they did MMO-like, then they did action with the 7 remakes.

Yes it does, actually. Most fans will go with the ATB system era of FF imo. That system has plenty of player influence, since relying on an A.I to be as efficient as a human is never gonna happen, the gameplay is totally in the players hands. 

Not just for the gameplay, but the worldbuilding and how the cast grows with it. Later FF games lack this overall in comparison.

1 hour ago, Capt. Fargus said:

Well, to be fair I liked the remakes of the original better than the actual original

Im certainly not saying this isnt okay.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

then they did action with the 7 remakes. 

Well, not entirely. There is still a form of ATB where many abilities, such as magic, still rely on it to be able to be used.

So it's more of a hybrid action/ATB system, which in itself is an evolution of what XII began.

As it is, FF has used ATB for a long time. Past IX they did started to get creative with it, but ATB had always existed in some form since its inception.

Edited May 3 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Gonna go through the saga in chronological order.

The whole thing? Just happen to be in the mood for that?

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

I mean, does FF style gameplay stay consistently the same?

Let me go through the mainlines.:

1. Turn-based. Very basic class system.
2. Turn-based. Ditched classes and traditional EXP for a "gain by doing" system that the SaGa franchise would later build itself around.
3. Turn-based. Improved class system compared to FF1.
4. ATB-based. The very first ATB game. Your 100% fixed-role characters are in continual story rotation for much of the game.
5. ATB-based. Improved class system compared to FF3 (easily the best gameplay in the SNES trio).
6. ATB-based. Every character gets one fixed ability -of varying degrees of useful/lessness- as basically their only real form of (non-equipment) character uniqueness. Magicite is sorta proto-Materia, IMO. 
7. ATB-based. Limit Breaks are the only distinctions between characters, as Materia homogenizes even more than Magicite did.
8. ATB-based. Again, Limit Breaks are the primary character distinction. Guardian Forces and Junctions replace Materia, and likewise make for samey -"flexible" would be the positive way to put it- characters.
9. ATB-based. Characters each have a fixed role again (e.g. thief, black mage). Limit Breaks are replaced by Trance mode.
10. Turn-based. Limit Breaks are back. The Sphere Gird is the new level-up system. The Expert version of the Sphere Grid allows for some character flexibility, but the Standard version more or less assigns everyone to fixed roles until the late/endgame.
    1. X-2: ATB-based. A class system with in-battle class-changing via Dresspheres. 
11. MMO, wouldn't know.
12. ATB-based. A poor man's proto-Xenoblade. Well, that's how it felt to me personally, long after its initial release. I'd say it's rather "micromanagement-oriented", since Gambits let you decide what the AI will do and when in fine detail.
    • Has the License Board system to determine character progression, which later editions of the game refined into a "class" system. -One that I'm not very fond of, because, magic access aside, the primary difference between classes is equipment options, lame. The handful of non-magic command skills are usually very situational, which is very boring.
13. ATB-based. A class system where everyone gets three primary role options out of six, which you can rotate between mid-battle. Feels very "macromanagement-oriented", in direct contrast to FF12. Here, you usually let the AI choose what skills to use, and simply pick which enemy/ally your controlled character should target and when the in-battle situation demands you make everyone swap classes for one reason or another.

...I stopped at XIII. Didn't play any either of its sequels.

The SNES-PS1 era was consistently ATB, and similar enough to each other. After that, I'd say the games become more different.

Edited May 3 by Interdimensional Observer

[Lightcosmo]

25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The SNES-PS1 era was consistently ATB, and similar enough to each other. After that, I'd say the games become more different.

X-2 is very similar to V, honestly.

[Lightcosmo]

28 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

ATB-based. Improved class system compared to FF3 (easily the best gameplay in the SNES trio

If only its ATB meter wasnt done in those weird "segments". I really disliked that.

Missed this, lol.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

X-2 is very similar to V, honestly.

V wasn't Charlie's Angels + Magical Girls + Too Many Minigames.😛

...But yeah, they're both ATB and class-based. I was also reading just today comparisons between X-2 and XIII, since the former introduced the idea of mid-battle class-swapping. You could say the concept got refined, as changing classes in battle were rather unnecessary in X-2, while knowing when to swap between healing & turtling, buffing, and going on offense was a big deal in XIII.

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

V wasn't Charlie's Angels + Magical Girls + Too Many Minigames.

Hey, boys will be boys, alright!? Lmao

Joking, of course!

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

V wasn't Charlie's Angels + Magical Girls + Too Many Minigames.😛

I'm pretty sure Bartz was Charlie.

Now that you mention it, X-2 and V do have the class jobs work as a "they transform into their classes only in battle", unlike III. Also, the jobs in V were in crystal shards, while X-2 had them in Spheres. So that's also quite similar too.

You got me there with the minigames, though, hahaha.

 

 

[Lightcosmo]

V lacks the same "appeal" as X-2 if you catch my drift! Xd

[Acacia Sgt]

13 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

V lacks the same "appeal" as X-2 if you catch my drift! Xd

But X-2 doesn't have Gilgamesh.

[Acacia Sgt]

Also, no joke, X-2 was my first FF game.

It was an appeal, alright. XD

Though admittedly I was there first for "the world Tidus and Wakka who I saw in KH came from". Then stayed for... well, you know... lol

Edited May 3 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm pretty sure Bartz was Charlie.

No, that was Galuf.

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Now that you mention it, X-2 and V do have the class jobs work as a "they transform into their classes only in battle", unlike III.

I didn't actually play that far into X-2, but I think I recall what happened to Yuna after the battle while wearing the Songstress Dressphere...

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Also, no joke, X-2 was my first FF game.

It was an appeal, alright. XD

Mine was Tactics Advance I believe. I would die happy never seeing another snowball fight in my life.😛

 

8 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

V lacks the same "appeal" as X-2 if you catch my drift! Xd

You mean the mandatory massage minigame?😜

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

No, that was Galuf.

Dude, one of them is his granddaughter!

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I didn't actually play that far into X-2, but I think I recall what happened to Yuna after the battle while wearing the Songstress Dressphere...

Yeah, story-wise, they do "job change" in cutscenes and the like, but it's still the same principle. Need to transform via shard/sphere.

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Mine was Tactics Advance I believe. I would die happy never seeing another snowball fight in my life.😛

I think that was also among my first FF's too, heh.

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Dude, one of them is his granddaughter!

I didn't realize the bossman was hiring them for other things.😆

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, story-wise, they do "job change" in cutscenes and the like, but it's still the same principle. Need to transform via shard/sphere.

-My point was that, IIRC, she couldn't stop dancing. Reason enough to stick her to basic attire outside of combat.

And speaking of changing attire, the opening sequence with "Yuna" going from her summoner robes to Songstress... like going from the Madonna✝️ to Madonna🎤. -I'm not judging the tonal shift from X to X-2 though.

[Acacia Sgt]

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

-My point was that, IIRC, she couldn't stop dancing. Reason enough to stick her to basic attire outside of combat.

Ah, well, that is actually a big plot point of the game.

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And speaking of changing attire, the opening sequence with "Yuna" going from her summoner robes to Songstress... like going from the Madonna✝️ to Madonna🎤. -I'm not judging the tonal shift from X to X-2 though.

Well, it certainly tackles themes, alright. What with the "New Yevon vs Youth League" secondary plotline and all.

[Acacia Sgt]

Okay, reached the Mana Palace, and got all eight magics. If only there was a faster/easier way to max out magic levels... ah well. Will continue tomorrow.

[Lightcosmo]

8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You mean the mandatory massage minigame?

Yes the mine-sweeper based mini game was my favorite! lmao

 

[Armagon]

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The whole thing? Just happen to be in the mood for that?

Mm. I didn't really get to do it last year, i have an unfinished Torna playthrough right after Minoth joins the party. So i'm picking up from there.

Xenoblade 1+Future Connected will be played in NG+ tho.

 

[Lightcosmo]

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

...But yeah, they're both ATB and class-based. I was also reading just today comparisons between X-2 and XIII, since the former introduced the idea of mid-battle class-swapping. You could say the concept got refined, as changing classes in battle were rather unnecessary in X-2, while knowing when to swap between healing & turtling, buffing, and going on offense was a big deal in XIII.

Well, being fair, X-2 seems slapped together, while XIII's battle system underwent plenty of refinement, didn't it?

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Lightcosmo said:

Well, being fair, X-2 seems slapped together, while XIII's battle system underwent plenty of refinement, didn't it?

X-2 did feel budget. Not sure if the game would've been made in the present day, or if Square would've instead thrown together some kind of DLC scenario for those who wanted more Spira.

To make my point, think of Tales. Symphonia got a sequel that feels pretty similar to X-2, with a limited budget and a story that -understandably since replicating the scope would be difficult- feels much smaller (and also budget -we don't see 6/8 Centurions). Graces got its future arc in the PS3 release, Xillia got Xillia-2. Zestiria and Arise... got DLC scenarios. The changeover I would hazard is the rising cost of game development, and that it took some time for Namco/Tales to get used to using DLC for more than cosmetics. 

Going back to Final Fantasy, XIII got two sequels, but that was still in the DLC transitory era for Japanese developers, perhaps. XV and XVI were created with DLC scenarios instead, and there was probably no discussion of doing something else. I think that nowadays, you need a really distinctive idea to justify an independent direct sequel to a grand JRPG*, the costs otherwise deter against it.

 

*Excluding JRPGs whose stories are customarily broken into parts, aka Trails. However, I get some sense that Nihon Falcom might be beginning to regret their decision to prolong Zemuria like this maybe that's why they're blowing up the planet at the end of the next game. Another exception could be made for RPGs whose bigness assures enough sales to recoup the costs of a non-DLC direct sequel, meaning- FFVIIR. For what else could I mean? -But Square might be harboring some regrets themselves on that decision, as it seems that while Rebirth didn't sell badly, it left them with concern.

I guess some in the industry are only now finding out that what works for books, doesn't exactly work for video games. The Wheel of Time is 14 books of pure fantasy, but all you needed was an author and some paper & pens/a computer for that. Video games of the same scope require programmers and designers of various kinds at a minimum, far more expensive.

...With this in mind, if Tetsuya Takahashi had conceived of the idea of Xenosaga in the year 2024 instead of 1999, it would've been dead at conception. Namco would never have had the chance to kill it. I can't see how a space opera of that episodic ambition could've been financed to completion even at a AA-level. (Well, okay, maybe it could, because Falcom, but it would be a financially-unwise endeavor.) Yes, Monolith did retroactively turn Xenoblade into continuous series, but it wasn't intended until XC2. And even then, XC2 is pretty much a standalone story, and so I've heard without any detail I'd find out myself right now, but Berseria is occupying that play slot the same can be said of pre-DLC XC3. In the present moment, I feel like the video game industry is likely inhospitable to multi-part stories should I prepare a rectangular tombstone for X2 then?.