Sacred Stones Mafia: Redux (Game Over)

[ZoesMad]

Votals 1.2

Ars Nova (3): Crysta, Clarinets

Marth (2): Yolo, Quote

Clarinets (2): Marth, Ars Nova

Makaze (2): Prims, Strawman

Manix (1): SB

Strawman (1): Junko

Junko (1): Makaze

Not Voting: Shinori, Faerie Knight

With 14 alive it takes 8 to hammer. You have approximately 48 hours and 39 minutes until phase end.

No comp access atm, will do ISOs once I get it again, should be within 12 hours.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Lord Gaius

[Makaze]

Explanation time.

what is your full faction name ars nova? i don't think the rules said the town faction so maybe we can get a confirmed townie from this?

well i guess ars nova technically doesn't have to answer it. I guess anyone if they feel they have a weaker role should say the full faction town name.

These were the posts that struck me as possible buddy with/pocketing attempt with Nova, good enough for my RVS vote.

This is pretty much what I expected.

Makaze, why the change from "Nova is obvtown" to "sell me on why I should work with you"?

I read him town for about two seconds until Manix pointed out that he was probably given the name of the Town faction. In retrospect, I somewhat doubt someone like Nova would make such a blatantly obvious town "slip" unless it was just to gain town cred. I didn't see anything in it for me to immediately back off, so I let it play out and got a much less town read off of Nova's weird buddying. Nova is probably the only person who knows me well enough to get away with clearing me that effortlessly, but he's almost always against me, so... It's weird?

Each quote is small this time are you proud of me Bluedoom

First of all, Makaze reads as very Townlike to me. Their content reads as genuine and Townlike, I like how they ask a lot of questions. They don't seem to have played Mafia in a while (I haven't seen them in any recent games) so I don't know if they'd be able to fake that content as scum.

RVS or serious? If the latter, could you explain the thought process behind it?

The last couple games I've been lynched or fos'd for providing little and lackluster content. I'd rather that didn't happen again.

This is not a scumtell. I have done this multiple times on Mafiascum as Town and have seen numerous people do it.

Do you mean forced? Because otherwise that just seems like Makaze's posting style.

Quote said only non-kill actions don't go through, so I'd assume yes.

and I forgot to post something, so you get even more content from me once I head back to page 5! Already more content than Kirby Mafia 2, are you proud Prims?

More on suspecting people who clear me: This town read doesn't seem to make sense and could be said about anyone. More than anything else, this post gives me mafia vibes because there isn't enough warrant to think I'm town from Clarinet's perspective.

this is kind of silly since your goal as town is to put pressure on me so it makes other players especially you read me better. If I was scum you'd be helping me since I know no one cares about reads that you won't explain.

Explained before, I refuse to answer instead of saying "I need to reread". I hate when people excuse themselves with that. Would rather be blunt about my refusal than stall.

gut read on strawman,

his last post just felt like a bunch of questions and i guess a comment but not really saying anything and a random unvote. Distinctly remember him doing something similar in am/pm 2. Admittedly though i've been kind of doing the same thing as shinori is right about me being on the fence about sb. The post seems weird but at the same time i can't see any scum motivation. But still reminds me of AM/PM 2 a lot.

@sb i guess i will agree that the reaction test doesn't really do much but don't think its scummy maybe because of bad bias. I still don't see how it'd make clarinets look bad though since clarinets is experienced enough at this point IMO to not get shaken up by a reaction test so we'll have to agree to disagree.

@strawman, i was silly and forgot fakeclaims were a thing and thought that if someone said the full faction town name it would confirm them as town since they could only know the town name.

##unvote

##vote strawman

although i always feel bad for voting this early for some reason i feel like not voting is pretty much a waste of time since it never seems to work out.

This post helps improve my opinion of Junko. He's more of a null town read now, his progression seems straightforward and no scum motivation is showing in later posts.

Not going to go very in-depth on the recent posts, I'm going to bed soon

I see.

I agree with this.

Yes, this is a better way to put it. Not necessarily not a scumtell, just not alignment indicative.

Wait where was the reaction test?

Also I kind of feel like Ars Nova is buddying Makaze. I'll show a few posts that suggest this in the morning.

Could "wanna buddy up?" be one of them? Come on.

This I agree with actually. TMI on Clarinet's part.

I don't agree that my questions aren't useful, I like to think I got useful reads from the reactions, but her clearing me for them is strange. See above.

##Vote: Makaze

Two things.

1. Your post asking for numbers. Not prompted, nothing around it is related.

2. You keep mentioning your null/tone whatever read on me, a player that had only posted dumb stuff in rvs in at least more posts after you've already discussed it in an exchange with Prims earlier. The initial read itself by your own reasoning seemed to not really be that important But yet you keep mentioning it?

ie. posts that don't show progression but echoing

Ah, right, numbers.

PSA: I scumhunt primarily by association, by figuring out how certain interact or who they avoid interacting with, and a lot of my scum reads are dependent on a whole team being the case. i.e. if X isn't scum, then Y is not suspected either. Or if Y is suspected, then X is suspected too. Since I don't know how many scum there are I don't want to be in danger of having too many associative scum reads and if I know how many scum to look for I can form more precise and useful "possible scum teams" to work with. I asked this when I did because I was thinking that maybe Prims and Nova and Junko were all scum together and realized that without knowing how many scum there are any speculation I made on that front would be WIFOM of a higher degree than usual.

As for my read of you, you are a solid town read by now and I thought that by using that strong read and claiming a similar read on someone else (Nova), I could gain some info on who is not. I know you can't tell why I read you town but I have a strong feeling that you are.

I have a feeling I'm forgetting to explain something but I'm going to watch GoT so it will have to wait. Remind me if I missed your question.

[Ars Nova]

Listen the last time I scumlocked you you scumlocked me back and we were both town I'd rather every game we play together not be marked by a suicide pact

ughhhh haven't changed my mind on Clarinets but I'm reeeeally getting antsy about Marth not posting for several pages

Also that votal's throwin' me off hasn't Manix voted? And who's the third guy on me? Or is the tally wrong?

[Baldrick]

Not playing but bored

1. Clarinets
2. Marth
3. Yoloswag
4. Faerie Knight
5. Junko
6. Strawman
7. SB
8. Manix
9. Crysta
10. Makaze
11. Shinori
12. Ars Nova
13. Quote
14. Prims

[Prims]

Dislike the amount of posts saying "X is town" in here because the reasons have been flimsy and poorly-explained and not productive. Just pads out the thread. We're barely any ways into Day 1, people, come on.

@Prims: Are you scumspecting me because you think this is what would do as scum or because you have a hard on for me?

Questions like this and this aren't really relevant (why would anybody have numbers? why are you asking people if they buy an easily provable claim?) so it's like you're forcing being a go-getter, which is what bugged me the most at the time I posted that. As is I think your post:content ratio is very unnecessarily uneven but it's not a strong scumread.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Going by this post I can't even tell why Manix's reaction test is scummy to SB; what makes it more malicious than any other attempt at a reaction test? How is it difficult to see town!Manix doing the same thing? SB, how are you reading Clarinets himself? I agree with Via that SB focusing on this and nothing else is scummy, and with SB going on to post a strawman seemingly refuting his own case (???) it reminds me of scum contriving an original suspicion to fill a content quota without getting too involved in any arguments.

I'm more open to a Clarinets lynch now as I think he sounds frustrated in a self-conscious way in response to Ars Nova suspecting him for reasons he doesn't think are valid, but I'm entertaining the possibility of him just being indignant town, especially given the way he's tearing into Ars in response to the vote. I'd much rather vote SB as is.

Yeah I think Ars talking about the alignment name is him trying to sound townie but people as both alignments want to be read as town so w/e lol

Cut by a Makaze post. Uh OK but we're on Day 1 with no flips so your motivation is also kind of totally insane.

[Prims]

People generally don't even correctly bingo the scumteam with zero mafia flips on Day 3

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

ive skimmed hardbody and without shame

another game with terrible town reads being thrown around for no reason that only serves to deceive the masses

im smellin scum between makaze and commie. it might be a good idea to lynch em back to back to ensure a scum lynch in the first two days. ill be here tomorrow so will be able to take a closer look to see if this is worth following thru but in the meantime

##vote sb

[Bluedoom]

Actually, I've been trying to post, but they keep getting eaten up. Gg

I feel like every time I think I've nabbed scum, someone else shows up in thread and posts scummy content.

Manix is right about clarinets and about last game: freyjadour pulled off the same stuff in the last game and I (well I was an unofficial hydra with refa, so he) gave him a pass for being newbtown who always posts in a scummy way. But then he flipped scum, so I don't want to give clarinets pass for that. Also the Nova vote is bad because he could've voted Manix or I for the same reason, so why pick Nova?

SB is scummy too for that Manix vote because it feels like its making a mountain of a molehill (or did the molehill even exist?) It reads as "I don't have a problem with what you did but HOW you did it even though it was a one liner and this is grasping a lot but I NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING HERE!"

I was gonna be like "junko is wishy washy about his SB read and is not doing anything about it and the tone of his strawman case is under confident!" But then the CASE IS ACTUALLY GOOD! Definitely getting AMPM2 vibes here and his content want good uptil then anyway.

Also, the makaze vote is scummy IMO.

##unvote ##vote: strawman

Same reasons for scum reading SB, but worse. "You town read me or are reading me as null! Which I think if pointless! But I don't know why scum would do that! Yet I'm gonna scum read you anyway!"

Says that the posts don't show progression but doesn't show a)how

B) why that's scummy

C) how whatever he had pointed out about makaze is related to this.

More in my next post.

[Bluedoom]

Ahhhhh every time I think I've finally nabbed scum, someone else shows up in this thread and posts scummy content. -.-

Manix is right about Clarinets and about last game: Freyjadour pulled off the same stuff in the last game and I(well I was an unofficial hydra with Refa, so he) gave him a pass for being newbtown who always posts in a scummy way. THEN he flipped mafia. I don't really want to give Clarinets a pass after that. Also that Ars Nova vote is really weak when he could vote Manix or I for the same reasons.

@Quote: You may defend Clarinets with reasons like him not getting any benefit doing that as scum, but there's no reason for town to do that too! I mean, since it was obvious that there was not much to comment on in the thread, why make it known that you won't do anything because of that? Seems 'obvious' in a very unnecessary way. I don't know how to word this well but I totally get what Manix is saying.

SB is scummy too for that Manix vote because it feels like its making a mountain out of a molehill(or did the molehill even exist?) It reads as "I don't have a problem with what you did but HOW you did it even though it was a one-liner and this is grasping a lot but I NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING HERE!"

Then I was gonna be like "Junko is wishy washy about his SB read and is not doing anything about it and the tone of his Strawman case feels very underconfident!" but then HIS STRAWMAN CASE IS GOOD! Definitely getting AMPM2 vibes from Strawman here. The content Strawman had posted uptil then did not show any intent in contributing to the progress of discussion, but with his Makaze vote, I'm content with this:

##Unvote ##Vote:Strawman

Same reasons for me scumreading SB, but worse. "You townread me or are reading me null! Which I think is pointless! But I don't know why scum would do that! Yet I'm gonna scumread you anyway!" Says that posts don't show progression but doesn't show a)how b)why that's scummy c)How whatever he has pointed out about Makaze is related to this.

[Bluedoom]

FINALLY! IT WORKED!

[Bluedoom]

Yeah

I typed it in the comp

Then had to retype it on my phone gg

[Ars Nova]

Listen can we all at least agree Magvel is a dumb fuckin name

[Ars Nova]

Ok but in all seriousness. Capricious flirting aside, Mak's rubbing me the wrong way thus far. Mostly just... seems like he's half-assing it. I've NEVER known him to do that as town, he loves being town. But he plays more consistently here so I may be overridden on that.

[Ars Nova]

I know that sounds like a complete 180 and is risky to say but like I said I was mostly ribbing before

[Bluedoom]

OK so I'm bothered by Shinori not voting anyone and making a big deal about via's claim but it isn't as scummy as the ones mentioned above.

I don't see scum!Makaze mostly because of a chat with him about mafia but he seems like the kind of person to be worse than paper if he was scum and he hates using intuition over straightforward logic but has to use it a lot in mafia so I can see him struggling as town. As mafia he'd probably roll over and die.

Don't care about quote's claim. I wasn't bothered by them anyway.

[Junk]

@liveheart how come you aren't voting makaze or I if you at least have a gut read on one of us?

uh i'm confused by strawman's case because unless i missed something makaze before their last post only every mentioned you twice and the second time was in response to sb telling makaze to explain their reads.

2. how is this scummy?

i like primd vase, shifting sb to slight scum.

[Percivalé]

ok I'm finally off work, post incoming in like... an hour... or two

[Percivalé]

ftr I wasn't trying to defend clarinets I was just not scum reading him at the time. That might change once I read the thread I've just been lurking on my phone through my shift bc I'm a bad employee. Manix is my only definite townread that I'm outing because it was relevant at the time I outed it. I felt that math was parroting and jumping board onto the clarinets case for something tiny and his post felt forced smso yeah of course I'm gonna jump on that

I'm probably gonna switch to sb when I'm on my laptop but Yolo's vote hop onto sb was bad and I remember him posting like that as scum in a game once, whatever I guess. will address everything else when I get back

[Makaze]

I realized I never actually said I read Quote town after the claim. Sorry about that. Saying it now.

Cut by a Makaze post. Uh OK but we're on Day 1 with no flips so your motivation is also kind of totally insane.

Insane != scum. Remember that.

I think there is a question that is being begged and that question is: Is a bad idea a scum-motivated idea?

It goes without saying that whatever I do I think it is the best idea at the time, so what reasoning went behind the idea? "I can't imagine any reason someone would do that" isn't the same as "he wants to get X result, which is pro-mafia". If you're going to case me, make it because I'm mafia, not because I'm overconfident in bad strategies.

It is all too easy for town to spend a lot of time arguing about me for no reason just because they don't understand what I'm doing. If you want me to get better, show me a better way. From what I'm reading you guys would actually be happier with me if I just decided not to post at all. These are the tools at my disposal. Deal with it or learn to understand my bizarre thought process instead of going through this same argument every time I play a game.

[Prims]

I never said you were scum for scumhunting that way, looks like you're mad you got caught for the wrong reasons, game cracked open :)

nah but my read on you is null after that. Who do you think is mafia though.

[Prims]

@livelystone/yolo: what do you have on Junko (commie)? I've thought his content has been OK; sorta weird but I'm not reading it as scum weird atm

[Shinori]

Heading to bed, I'll be posting when i get home from work tomorrow.

[Makaze]

With that out of the way...

I'm in the business of proving Prims wrong, so I'd like to make my reads clear and organised. Subject to change as always, but I'm reasonably confident in the ones I have.

Town:

Junko - The town clearing comments looked bad at first, but later content doesn't show scum intent, and in the light of that it actually looks like a derpclear.

Strawman - I can't really explain this, but the way he says things gives me a strong feeling that he is town. Each post he makes makes me more sure of it.

Quote - The claim and the tone make me sure he is town. Can't get anything but good intentions from his content either. Not much to say here.

Shinori - Can't see him pulling this kind of stuff as scum. Can't fake that saltiness.

Town leaning:

Prims - This play seems typical Prims, casing me D1 included, and he seems critical, if still unable to read my intent.

Scum leaning:

Clarinets - It is easy to be right about me when they are Mafia and the lack of reason to town read me adds weight to the case others are making.

Ars Nova - This is a more chaos read because he has good posts and posts that set off blaring sirens like the one where he literally says "Want you buddy up?" Overall he seems too manic and jumpy for Town!Nova. Hard to keep up, which is something I'm not used to.

SB - He asked me questions that, in my opinion, didn't really lead anywhere except to light a fire under my ass. Pretty weak, but it looks like he's taking advantage of my ego instead of actually hunting me.

Marth - Manic as they come and took the first chance to jump off of a Clarinets wagon. Not sure why he is deciding to town read me though, so possible conflict of interest and weird associative if Clarinets/Marth are scum/scum.

[Makaze]

I have no really strong scum reads, town reads are so much easier.

I'm okay with a Clarinets lynch, more okay with an SB lynch (somehow I think SB isn't going to give as much info as he makes me dish out in response).

[Makaze]

oh

##Unvote Junko

##Vote SB