What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Shadow Mir]

2 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's Daein's War of Liberation, though. There are two clear sides: the Daein insurgents, and the Begnion occupiers. They smack each other with swords to achieve certain political ends. I'd call that a war.

Isn't that not until like halfway through part 1? Before then, we have bandits, running away, a side job, a jailbreak, more bandits, then busting in on a scrap between several other Daeins and a Begnion contingent. It only really starts feeling like a war after that last one.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Isn't that not until like halfway through part 1? Before then, we have bandits, running away, a side job, a jailbreak, more bandits, then busting in on a scrap between several other Daeins and a Begnion contingent. It only really starts feeling like a war after that last one.

Yeah, that is fair. Up through chapter 4 is more of a "guerilla freedom fighter" phase. Chapter 5 is the narrative turning point, and chapter 6 onward is a proper war.

[Jotari]

I actually would have like it if the guerilla part of Radiant Dawn lasted a bit longer. People blame the lack of supports on the Dawn Brigade being underdeveloped, but I don't think that's the main offender. PoR NPCs like Sanaki, Sigrun, Nealuchi Leanne, Kurthnaga and Oliver have no supports yet are characterized just fine (though Gareth is not, and so hilariously so that I don't think supports would have helped him). What really screwed the Dawn Brigade over characterwise is that their part of the story was literally skipped over. It almost immediately moves its focus to the liberation war where Pelleas and his gang are what the story comes to be about and the likes of Leonardo, Edward and Nolan very quickly fall into the seams. If we had just two or three more chapters seeing them actually carrying out guerilla strikes or being recruited it would have done a lot for them.

Though, I also get the feeling they kind of just weren't as interested in Radiant Dawn's new characters as they were the PoR alumni, as Vika, Lyre and Kyza are so flat I struggle to remember why they're even around (though I think Kyza might have got butchered by localisation). Fiona also has a good showing characterwise in her debut chapter, something like precisely what I'd want for Edward, Leo and Nolan, but then she fails to assert herself in any way afterwards. I can't even remember what he base conversation is. I think some generic one with Micaiah not long afterwards where she gives a skill scroll or something. Skirmir they definitely put effort into, though and Nailah's pretty cool (and Volug was always going to be an odd duck characterwise with the decision to not have him speak the same language, but I think it worked).

So, yeah, I blame Radiant Dawn's rushed early game on Leo, Edward and Nolan being kind of flat characters. Even Laura, Aran and Meg, while not fantastic characters, I feel I have a better handle on as characters than the original group because they have some kind of presence in their recruitment chapter and a sub plot. Really, as people have said before, Radiant Dawn Part 1 absolutely could have been it's own game and the series could have been a trilogy and it probably would have worked a lot better. There is a tonne of plot to pack into Radiant Dawn and, for as much as I love it, I'm not sure they entirely succeed. The narrative whiplash between Part 3 and 4 is extreme and how it wraps up the arcs for characters like Lekain and Izuka by even having them in Part 4 is a bit contrived.

[Florete]

I see merits in how Engage does weapon levels, but I don't like it overall. It's a shame that you can't do something like having a Bow-based Warrior, since Warriors will always have C rank Bows (Or B, for a specific few characters). I never had an issue (conceptually, at least) with needing to work for your weapon levels in battle; it's another cost/benefit choice the player has to make. I also find it just makes sense that you get better at using a weapon by actually using it.

For those who do prefer how Engage does it, is there any middle ground you think would be good? A way to avoid having weapon rank progression feel grindy, but also not have it static? I see some ideas in here already, just wondering if anyone has anything else.

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, Florete said:

I see merits in how Engage does weapon levels, but I don't like it overall. It's a shame that you can't do something like having a Bow-based Warrior, since Warriors will always have C rank Bows (Or B, for a specific few characters). I never had an issue (conceptually, at least) with needing to work for your weapon levels in battle; it's another cost/benefit choice the player has to make. I also find it just makes sense that you get better at using a weapon by actually using it.

Conceptually, yeah, it makes sense, but it's something that never really seems to work for me in games. I'm getting flashbacks to playing Oblivion and having my character jump in place for (in-game) hours at a time just to train my acrobatics skill. Yeah, it's kinda realistic, but it's also horribly inane and not remotely fun. Unless we're looking at hardcore simulation games, I think that training is one of those areas where we're better off just ignoring what makes realistic sense. Training to be good at something takes a lot of repetitive work, and isn't actually fun.

And besides, if we're talking about what makes sense, then switching your weapon choice midway through a war is a horrible choice. If I'm commanding an army, there's no way that I'm ordering my best elite axeman to switch over to fighting with a bow even though he's never shot one before in his life. We're already well into the realm of fantasy shenanigans here, and long may they continue.

1 hour ago, Florete said:

For those who do prefer how Engage does it, is there any middle ground you think would be good? A way to avoid having weapon rank progression feel grindy, but also not have it static? I see some ideas in here already, just wondering if anyone has anything else.

I can think of a few possibilities:

• Weapon rank levels up at specific levels in a class. So, maybe Warrior starts at B axes and D bows, then gets C bows at level 4, A axes at level 8, B bows at level 12, S axes at level 16, and A bows at level 20.
• Weapon experience is gained on level up only. If you're just sat in a single class, this would look similar to the first option, but would offer more nuance when it comes to reclassing, specific character strengths, etc.
• Weapon experience is tied to regular experience. You only gain a useful amount of weapon experience if you're actually making useful contributions with the weapon. So you can't grind it out by repeatedly attacking with a broken weapon that has a 3% chance to hit for 0 damage each time, but can level up very quickly if you can kill a boss with your new weapon.
• Weapon experience gained is proportional to character level. High level characters would zoom through low level weapon ranks but then slow down when they got to more level-appropriate weapon levels. Basically, this would work as a sort of a catch up mechanic.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Florete said:

I see merits in how Engage does weapon levels, but I don't like it overall. It's a shame that you can't do something like having a Bow-based Warrior, since Warriors will always have C rank Bows (Or B, for a specific few characters).

That's something that helped prepromotes in previous games too. Since a prepromote could come with weapon base ranks that are very different to the class natives. Like Echidna being an axe hero. Engage has that to some extent with characters having innate weapon ranks (right? Two characters in the warrior class might have different bow ranks if one of the characters is a native bow user?).

[Alastor15243]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:35 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I don't believe any first-tier classes in Engage get higher than B rank in anything. So Vander is the only unit who can use A- and S-rank Axes (at a time when they... don't exist). And by the time you start promoting units (which, in Engage, is roughly five minutes after you start playing), your Jagen's work is done.

So no, the game's design is not especially kind to Vander, but that's not necessarily a symptom of the "fixed weapon ranks" system. They could've given him a Brave Axe or Silver Greataxe, and he'd have a monopoly over it until people start promoting.

Still though, maybe a three-tier system is the answer? Go from Mercenary (C Swords), to Myrmidon (B Swords), to Swordmaster (A Swords). These are each increased by one on units with an innate Sword proficiency, or who use an Arms Seal to increase their rank. With all weapons at C, B, A, or S rank. So your Swordmaster Jagen will start with a much wider pool of options than your freshly-recruited Mercenary.

Italics: B is still pretty dang high though, the stores don't sell weapons that good for ages. And combined with lack of weapon durability meaning that weapon sticks around forever, the early promotion meta meaning units catch up fast, and the fixed weapon ranks, even giving an A rank axe to the Jagen would have a pretty big impact on how the rest of the cast plays by the time he does his job.

Bold: I'm a pretty big opponent of more than two tiers of units. They have grossly diminishing returns compared to how much it would cost to give them their own models and animations. I wouldn't be opposed to making a boosted weapon rank a "reach level 10" reward or something along those lines though.

[Eltosian Kadath]

10 hours ago, Kruggov said:

To be honest, the war in Thracia doesn't start until you are halfway through, and you don't even see it until Seliph comes to rescue your ass in chapter 20, because the conflict that is center in Thracia is not what I would call a war.

I see it more as Leif's war starting around Chapter 10, as that is where he marches back into the Munster District with a small army at his back to do what he can to end Grannvale control of the region.

 

3 hours ago, Florete said:

 

For those who do prefer how Engage does it, is there any middle ground you think would be good? A way to avoid having weapon rank progression feel grindy, but also not have it static? I see some ideas in here already, just wondering if anyone has anything else.

The solution I would have is for improved weapon ranks to be an inheritable skill that some characters start with as appropriate (and like add a skill slot or two for them).

[Kruggov]

5 hours ago, Florete said:

For those who do prefer how Engage does it, is there any middle ground you think would be good? A way to avoid having weapon rank progression feel grindy, but also not have it static? I see some ideas in here already, just wondering if anyone has anything else.

Maybe like how Warriors: Three Hopes does it? Your weapon ranks go up based on class mastery.

Admittedly it only works due to four-tiered class system and multiple levels of class mastery, and you also gain weapon ranks based on classes you certify into. And you can't really skip weapon ranks. How it works is, for example you start at E Swords with Myrm unlocked, as you raise its class mastery your weapon rank goes to D, then you master it and certify into Mercenary, raising rank to C, then it increases to C+ as you raise Merc's mastery level, then you master it and certify into Swordmaster, getting B, raise class mastery and get B+, certify into Mortal Savant for A, and raise its mastery for A+, I don't remember if S rank exists in that game.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Bold: I'm a pretty big opponent of more than two tiers of units. They have grossly diminishing returns compared to how much it would cost to give them their own models and animations. I wouldn't be opposed to making a boosted weapon rank a "reach level 10" reward or something along those lines though.

I personally like the way that multi-tier systems let units develop naturally, and improve without turning promotion into some "all-or-nothing" occurence, but this topic could get its own whole thread.

Yeah, that would be a neat way to do it - have Myrmidon start with C Swords, then bump up to B Swords at level 10. Likewise with Swordmaster, going from A to S. I wouldn't necessarily like it in Engage, since I'm predisposed against "lose your level when you reclass" schems, but I think it could work in a future system.

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Italics: B is still pretty dang high though, the stores don't sell weapons that good for ages. And combined with lack of weapon durability meaning that weapon sticks around forever, the early promotion meta meaning units catch up fast, and the fixed weapon ranks, even giving an A rank axe to the Jagen would have a pretty big impact on how the rest of the cast plays by the time he does his job.

Yeah, that's true. Perhaps giving Vander a Prf Axe would've fit the feeling of "Jagen's Silver Lance", while allowing the new fixed-ranks system to exist? Of course, Engage seems averse to Prf weapons in general, so maybe this is a non-starter. Alternatively, give him an S-rank Axe from the start, but have him lose it very early on (say, after chapter 3), only for the player to get it back in the last few chapters.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:32 PM, Metal Flash said:

Out of curiosity, why would you WANT to raise that support knowing you`re gonna lose a unit?

stat gains? see where the trainwrecks goes? curiosity? get rid of some baggage?

On 4/19/2023 at 6:32 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's the Divine Pulse. Your resident Lord has grown too wary about the possibility of letting anyone actually die, and needs their Teacher with time-bending powers to come back, thus giving them the confidence and assurance to fight on.

Fire Emblem: Edge of Tomorrow

 

[Metal Flash]

2 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

stat gains? see where the trainwrecks goes? curiosity? get rid of some baggage?

Alright, thanks for responding.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I personally like the way that multi-tier systems let units develop naturally, and improve without turning promotion into some "all-or-nothing" occurence, but this topic could get its own whole thread.

Yeah, that would be a neat way to do it - have Myrmidon start with C Swords, then bump up to B Swords at level 10. Likewise with Swordmaster, going from A to S. I wouldn't necessarily like it in Engage, since I'm predisposed against "lose your level when you reclass" schems, but I think it could work in a future system.

Yeah, that's true. Perhaps giving Vander a Prf Axe would've fit the feeling of "Jagen's Silver Lance", while allowing the new fixed-ranks system to exist? Of course, Engage seems averse to Prf weapons in general, so maybe this is a non-starter. Alternatively, give him an S-rank Axe from the start, but have him lose it very early on (say, after chapter 3), only for the player to get it back in the last few chapters.

Or we just let him have his A ranked axe and stop caring that other units can steal it. After all, Boucheron (probably not the right spelling) and Anna kind of do need the help.

[Magenta Fantasies]

Panne is a criminally underrated character.

As much as I love Lethe and Naesala—they’re my two favorite Tellius characters behind Soren—they more or less are long-lived, shapeshifting humans with wings/tails/odd ears. I prefer having a shapeshifter like Panne who seems like a truly different species and has some non-human personality traits and behaviors. At the same time, Panne isn’t goofy like the Fates beast characters. I don’t mean “goofy” in a disparaging way; I’m quite fond of Selkie and I somewhat like the other three. It’s just that their “non-human” traits are almost always played for laughs and they come across as comic relief characters. Panne has a few lighthearted supports, but some deal with serious themes like genocide, healing from trauma and learning to open up to others. I found her supports genuinely touching, and even her lighthearted supports had some moments like this. There’s something interesting about having a character who survived a genocide in a game about war, and while she certainly isn’t the first character like this, her species gives it a different twist.

A lot of people don’t like her design, but she has my favorite design of any of the beast characters. It also helps that her Heroes art is a considerable improvement over her Awakening art. I love that she doesn’t just look like a kemonomimi or winged human, but still looks human enough to fit in with the rest of the cast.

Overall, Panne is one of my top five favorite characters in the series.

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, Magenta Fantasies said:

Panne is a criminally underrated character.

As much as I love Lethe and Naesala—they’re my two favorite Tellius characters behind Soren—they more or less are long-lived, shapeshifting humans with wings/tails/odd ears. I prefer having a shapeshifter like Panne who seems like a truly different species and has some non-human personality traits and behaviors. At the same time, Panne isn’t goofy like the Fates beast characters. I don’t mean “goofy” in a disparaging way; I’m quite fond of Selkie and I somewhat like the other three. It’s just that their “non-human” traits are almost always played for laughs and they come across as comic relief characters. Panne has a few lighthearted supports, but some deal with serious themes like genocide, healing from trauma and learning to open up to others. I found her supports genuinely touching, and even her lighthearted supports had some moments like this. There’s something interesting about having a character who survived a genocide in a game about war, and while she certainly isn’t the first character like this, her species gives it a different twist.

A lot of people don’t like her design, but she has my favorite design of any of the beast characters. It also helps that her Heroes art is a considerable improvement over her Awakening art. I love that she doesn’t just look like a kemonomimi or winged human, but still looks human enough to fit in with the rest of the cast.

Overall, Panne is one of my top five favorite characters in the series.

On a related note, I think Yarne and his obsession with avoiding extinction becomes a lot more sympathetic when you think about rabbits and realize that there is no conceivable earthly way that Yarne was the only child Panne gave birth to.

[NotYourKindOfPeople]

Fire Emblem should have ended as a franchise with Awakening, and everything after (Fates/Three Houses/Engage) should have been completely separate SRPGs.

[Heir of Dragons and Beasts]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:55 AM, Magenta Fantasies said:

Panne is a criminally underrated character.

I blame this mainly on Awakening not giving us any lore on Taguels or why they went extinct + excluding them from the plot. They do this with all the shifters that aren't dragons, we don't know why the Kitsune and Wolfskin exist or how they came to settle in Nohr and Hoshido, while the Laguz are tied to the plot of POR and RD there's still a whole lot we don't know about them. Panne and all other beast units were truly screwed over by the games they're in.

[Bullwine85]

Kaga leaving Intelligent Systems was for the best.

Both for Kaga, and for Intelligent Systems.

[NotYourKindOfPeople]

6 hours ago, Bullwine85 said:

Kaga leaving Intelligent Systems was for the best.

Both for Kaga, and for Intelligent Systems.

I agree with this. Kaga was instrumental not just for the creation of Fire Emblem but the SRPG genre as a whole. However, he was never capable of writing strong female characters and would reduce them to be mind-controlled, kidnapped or even implied to be victim of abuse. 

[PsychoLogical]

Canon pairings need to happen more often. 

And I find some pairings should be canon for narrative purposes. Such as Eliwood x Ninian.

[Florete]

17 hours ago, Bullwine85 said:

Kaga leaving Intelligent Systems was for the best.

Both for Kaga, and for Intelligent Systems.

I don't think this is unpopular.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, NotYourKindOfPeople said:

I agree with this. Kaga was instrumental not just for the creation of Fire Emblem but the SRPG genre as a whole. However, he was never capable of writing strong female characters and would reduce them to be mind-controlled, kidnapped or even implied to be victim of abuse. 

I wouldn't say anything of the precludes being a strong character. Might be sexist to keep doing it, but just because somethings sexist doesn't make it actually bad writing. Eyvel, for example, I think would be a strong female character from the Kaga era despite being stoned for most of the game.

[Vicious Sal]

As we all know, KAGA is just an acronym for "Kidnapped And Given Amnesia"

[ping]

2 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

As we all know, KAGA is just an acronym for "Kidnapped And Given Amnesia"

Good thing that stuff doesn't happen post-Kaga anymore.

[Saint Rubenio]

2 hours ago, Vicious Sal said:

As we all know, KAGA is just an acronym for "Kidnapped And Given Amnesia"

I'm stealing this. That's absolutely genius.

Just now, ping said:

Good thing that stuff doesn't happen post-Kaga anymore.

Yeah, how silly would it have been if IntSys decided to remake the Kaga game where these issues were at their worst, two and a half decades later, and added a bunch of things that only made it even worse? Haha, now that would've been so silly.

Incidentally, while looking for that last one I found this, and I have to say, I probably would've hated the guy far less if this had been his role in the game instead of stealing the deuteragonist's agency