Most overused FE trope?

[Alistair]

Title says it all. For me, it would probably be the "Perfect Protagonist" trope. Obviously it doesn't originate in FE, and it certainly isn't exclusive to it, but for most of the games I've played, the main Lords have always been people with upstanding virtues who never falter morally, and any faults they DO have are ignored by the narrative/Supports. Alm, for example, genuinely forgives Berkut... for being Berkut, even though he ACTUALLY sacrificed  his girlfriend to a dark god for power and POTENTIALLY either killed or is directly responsible as an enemy commander for killing members of the Deliverance. Or, you know, Corrin being worshiped as the second coming by Fates' cast in general and the royals in particular (with the sort-of exception of Takumi). I'd love to see the series move past it, maybe have 16's protag be a merc who's genuinely in it for the money and has to learn the are better things to swear by than coin or a battle-hungry noble who learns that war only draws out the villainous and not the heroic in people. Not that it'd happen...

[Rapier]

Do lolis count?

Seriously though, I find it extremely silly that our personified Weapon of Mass Destruction, a freaking dragon of 1K+ years or so, usually closely tied with the plot of the game, has to look like a little girl and act like one.

[Junkhead]

Waifus.

I'm out.

[NinjaMonkey]

Lord is a sword user.

2 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

Waifus.

How is it "over-played" when only two games have them?

[saisymbolic]

Red and Green cavalier duo. Red is hot-blooded and/or overly dutiful while Green is laid-back and/or average.

It needs to leave.

Edited September 8, 2017 by saisymbolic
specifics

[Alistair]

 

13 minutes ago, saisymbolic said:

Red and Green cavalier duo. Red is hot-blooded and/or overly dutiful while Green is laid-back and/or average.

It needs to leave.

Not that I disagree with you but why this specific archetype, and not, say, the Jagen or Gordin archetypes? 

[saisymbolic]

9 minutes ago, Alistair said:

Not that I disagree with you but why this specific archetype, and not, say, the Jagen or Gordin archetypes? 

It was the one I thought of first, that's all.

And I don't necessarily have, like, huge issues with the archetypes, but I would like to see something different.

[Armagon]

"The dragon was the true evil all along" trope. Shadow Dragon, Mystery of the Emblem, Shadows of Valentia, Genealogy of the Holy War (kinda), Binding Blade (kinda), Blazing Blade (kinda), Awakening, Fates. 8 out of 15 Fire Emblem games have the "evil dragon" trope. And if you add spin-offs into the mix, TMS#FE, and FE Warriors also have the "evil dragon" trope (yes i know Warriors isn't out yet but c'mon, we already know an evil dragon is behind it all).

Granted, in some cases, it's different. In Shadows of Valentia, Duma wasn't actually evil. Geneaolgy's final boss was Julius, and it was actually him, he was just channeling Lopytr's power. In Binding Blade, despie Idoun being the final boss, she's only the final boss because Zephiel unsealed her, making Zephiel the true villain of Binding Blade. The Fire Dragon in Blazing Blade just kinda came out of nowhere and isn't really the true villain. But other than that, about half of the FE series has the "evil dragon" trope.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Armagon

[Ae†her]

Whenever there's a Myrmidon or Swordsmaster type of character they also have to be somehow be cool, and have some flawless no touchiness qualities (Ex. Lon'qu, Karla, Karel...etc. all but Hinata). Why can't we have a swordsmaster type character that's actually not disciplined and be rude, cruel, and perhaps more cynical and skeptical like Seijuro Hiko from Samurai X. Also can we stop this trope of all Swordsmaster have to look like Japanese Samurai/ Chinese swordsmen when they're off duty, 15th century knights can strike just as fast, if not faster than Samurai with their long-swords.

[Captain Karnage]

a cast full of teens with no military experience

[Rezzy]

1 hour ago, Rapier said:

Do lolis count?

Seriously though, I find it extremely silly that our personified Weapon of Mass Destruction, a freaking dragon of 1K+ years or so, usually closely tied with the plot of the game, has to look like a little girl and act like one.

Lolis and dragon lolis in particular

Nowi is the worst.  She looks and acts like a ten year old, but it's okay to pee in her butt, because she's actually a thousand years old.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Rezzy

[Rex Glacies]

Evil cultists.

Like, general villains who are evil for the sake of being evil. There's numerous here - Iago, Garon, Garnef, etc. I want to see villains who are the heroes of their own stories. I mean, they don't have to be nice or anything - they just need to have more character beyond "Let's resurrect and ancient evil dragon to conquer the world!" Lyon, Ashnard, and Zephiel, to an extent, were good, but I want to see more people like that - villains who have a goal and the protagonist is simply a thorn in their side.

43 minutes ago, Armagon said:

"The dragon was the true evil all along" trope. Shadow Dragon, Mystery of the Emblem, Shadows of Valentia, Genealogy of the Holy War (kinda), Binding Blade (kinda), Blazing Blade (kinda), Awakening, Fates. 8 out of 15 Fire Emblem games have the "evil dragon" trope. And if you add spin-offs into the mix, TMS#FE, and FE Warriors also have the "evil dragon" trope (yes i know Warriors isn't out yet but c'mon, we already know an evil dragon is behind it all).

That would be another one, though I feel it can be justified at times. Like, if the dragon has a legitimate reason for hating humans or isn't pure evil but, like I said before, is the hero of their own story.

[Chad Radwell]

Moe-flavored waif peggos. Listen, I know lore up until Fates stated that pegazooses only let pure maidens or whatever the hell near them, but it seems like the biggest cop-out in terms of cutout characters imo. Take a deviantart anime base, give her hair, slap her on a horse, no pants necessary. Bam. Subaki was a hugely welcome change for me (even if he is probably a drag queen, and even if he is a creepy and terrible husband, and even if he does become sweaty garbage really easily as a unit unless you babysit that motherflocker.)  As someone who gravitates towards brick shithouses most of the time, the army of porcelain 10th graders on featherdonkeys is really...lame.

[ping]

4 hours ago, NinjaMonkey said:

How is it "over-played" when only two games have them?

One could argue that one game would have been two too many. ( :P )

While I agree with Rezzy that (dragon) lolis are the worst trope in the series, I'm with the OP in that the "perfect protag" is the most overused. The most morally gray main character is probably Micaiah - it could have been CQ!Corrin, but it really isn't - and even her intentions are portrayed as 100% good. Dragon lolis aren't as omnipresent, and to be fair, little Tiki, Fae and Myrrh aren't as sexualized beyond an unrequited crush on the protagonist.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Have to echo the manaketes trope. It's only really subverted in the Tellius Saga, at least in games where manaketes/dragon laguz appear at all. It's annoying that this universe's literal gods have descendants that are portrayed in that way. The only thing I like about manaketes and dragons is the concept that they eventually go mad and need centuries of slumber to avert that fate or else be put down by humans who are so clearly beneath them. Honestly, I think it's so cool that it almost redeemed Fates' villain to me. But the manaketes themselves are never portrayed as strong characters. Just the magic pixie kinder gardener that has a ton of power yet no mental maturity we see typically in Japanese media. Even Myrrh, who is portrayed to be quite stoic and serious, has a support in which she asks Ephraim if she can call him big brother. Those shameless writers knew what they were doing on that one.

[Mackc2]

Really have to echo the evil dragon trope especially after it was shoehorned into fates so poorly 

[blah the Prussian]

I despise the trope where the evil cult is behind everything, especially because most of the games play it up as a plot twist. Just once I'd like to see the ambitious King completely dupe the cult.

[Azure Sen]

Dragon lolis is a big one. Granted, the pre-Awakening dragon lolis weren't just there for otaku bait and I like quite a few of them as characters, but they've been in too many of the games, and there's no reason why they couldn't be anything but dragon lolis.

Camuses can go. They've long since overstayed their welcome, and it's clear IntSys isn't even bothering when it comes to their writing anymore (if they ever did in the first place). The last Camus who had a decent, logical reason for staying loyal to their obviously evil lord is Selena, who owed not only her own but the lives of everyone in her hometown to Vigarde, and she's one of the very few with such a reason.

8 hours ago, Alistair said:

Not that I disagree with you but why this specific archetype, and not, say, the Jagen or Gordin archetypes? 

Can't speak for saisymbolic, but I agree that a lot of the series "archetypes" (which aren't actually archetypes but for the sake of argument let's roll with it) are tired and need to be retired. The Christmas Knights aren't particularly interesting, as they generally share the exact same dynamic and stat distribution across games. The Jagen/Oifey archetype, at least, provides a crutch for new players, and Gordin is not part of a character archetype.

[Thane]

Most overused tropes would be, well, almost the basis of Fire Emblem. Young hot person lives in/rules a country that is being invaded, has to flee and raise an army in order to combat the threat, which tends to be unambiguously evil. Throw in a few little girls in mini skirts (I agree on the Manakete part but we've got characters like Delthea, Nino and Amelia as well) and you've got Fire Emblem.

I realize that is an oversimplification, but I wish there was more diversity in the overall story structures. Radiant Dawn, while flawed, managed to feel different. 

The trope I dislike the most, however, is by far the whole "an evil dragon/god/ancient being and its lackeys are behind it all". As long as that remains the staple of Fire Emblem storytelling, writing a serious plot with more engaging themes will be that much harder.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Thane

[Etrurian emperor]

Loli dragons. 

I get the idea behind it. Apart from fanservice to a certain group it can also be funny and cute how this little girl can turn into a big baddass dragon but that feeling can only really be generated one. Now its just a common theme that really isn't all that interesting. The whole race apparently being made up of 10 year old girls doesn't make me think very highly of dragons. 

3 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

I despise the trope where the evil cult is behind everything, especially because most of the games play it up as a plot twist. Just once I'd like to see the ambitious King completely dupe the cult.

I don't have a particular problem with the cults but that would be interesting to see. 

I can tolerate cultists but they must be better then the Grimleal at least. With them it just looked like they thought they really needed some evil cultist at the end of the game and quickly put a cult in without bothering to characterize them.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Jingle Jangle]

There is a mastermind behind everything. It annoy me that some a person planned out a plot for years without any setbacks or realizations by the characters that there in someone bigger game. It also cheapen the actual conflict the game have been building up to . And after it is all over, everyone are friend, Radiant Dawn and Fates are guilty of this the most.   

[Magical Glace]

Evil people being evil with no reason to be evil.

Like, Validar, or Gharnef, or Riev, etc.

In general though the repetitiveness of FE plots can get tiring.  The only one that doesn't essentially boil down to "bad nation invades good nation, noble from good nation must fight to save good nation while maybe meeting some dragons along the way" is FE7's, which has its own problems.

[vanguard333]

11 hours ago, Alistair said:

 Alm, for example, genuinely forgives Berkut... for being Berkut, even though he ACTUALLY sacrificed  his girlfriend to a dark god for power and POTENTIALLY either killed or is directly responsible as an enemy commander for killing members of the Deliverance. 

Am I the only one who has no problem with Alm and dead Rinea forgiving a dying man who felt true remorse for his actions?

Anyway, since the worst I was originally going to say have been said (mad dragon, evil sorcerer mastermind, etc.), I will say that the crown prince lord whose kingdom gets invaded and conquered has been done to death. Why does the hero always have to be a prince or noble who's heir to the throne once all's said and done and becomes king. It would be nice if we actually saw how being heir affected them, but we almost never do, and, when we do, we almost never see their predecessor and, with it, who's shoes they're trying to fill.

In Shadow Dragon, there are some indications within the game's thin plot of how having to take his father's place weighs on Marth. But it isn't much, and his father dies off-screen with no indication in the story as to what kind of king he was or his impact on the kind of king Marth would become. In echoes, Alm doesn't find out until the game's almost over, and we don't see too much of Emperor Rudolf's reign; only seeing Alm try to live up to the hope of leading the people into independence from the dragons.In Awakening, we see Emmeryn and how her reign and legacy affects Chrom; one of the few good things I can actually say about Awakening's plot. But we see nothing about how being prince or being king affects him.

Ike isn't royalty or nobility, yet they do a better job of showing how stuff like this affects him. They clearly show him as a rookie in his father's company, then we see him having to grow into his new role as leader of the Greil Mercenaries, and we see how this affects him. We see how he handles becoming leader of a big army (in short; he can't handle it, and he knows it, so he doesn't try, instead deferring command to others like General Tanith). Also, with Elincia, we see how being the last of the Crimean royal family affects her, and we see her try to grow become the queen she needs to be.

If FE is going to continue with these crown prince/noble's son lords who become ruler, then at least show the effect it has on who they are and who they become. If not, then stop with all these princes!

 

[Arn]

There are literally 4 loli dragons in the entire franchise, Fae, Myrrh, Nowi and maybe Nah. How is that a trope? Hell, I'd argue that Nowi is just a genki girl.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Gary Stu, the "perfect" Lord like Ephraim and FE10 Ike.