British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Darros]

idk that last post FFM made seems to be flipping FFM from scummy to neut for me even though I basically disagreed with every point FFM made, he's putting in effort to actually scumhunt instead of just get townreads from people.

##Unvote

##Vote: Makaze

This is where I'd like my vote to be now. Makaze isn't sitting well with me after last night before I went to bed. Even the posts he made since I've been sleeping don't make me feel any better about him.

[Darros]

Yeah just as I thought Walrein needs to exist more. I'm reading very slightly scum, but nothing huge, based on minimal activity and initial sheepy voting. I'm hoping we'll get more content from him soon.

[Elieson]

First off, me vote seems to be placed on Boron. I will not stand for this! I don't like scum, and must find it before I can wipe it away with the finest of cleaning products. Even our madam Queen endorses my handiwork, and the scowl she gave me for considering the leave of me vote on Boron, well, put me knickers in a twist. Jolly good No!

##Unvote

I have some cleaning to do, so until I get a fair opportunity to put my elbows into some of these fancier walls and the posts that they hold, consider me absent for but a few more hours. Your turn will come, oh scum of Britian! But first, as me pop always used to say, I must finish my duties at hand, before I can give a hand!

[Sunwoo]

I went to bed this morning feeling sick and I woke up this afternoon still feeling sick. Don't expect me to be around much until I feel better, which probably won't be anytime soon based on the last time I was sick in this manner.

@FFM: The explanations you gave me in your response were basically what I wanted when you originally made those statements. We can't read your mind, so we don't know your reasonings for what you're thinking. For all we knew you could've been scum pulling reads out of your ass and unable to justify it. I don't think "hypocritical" is the right word to describe Cam's vote, though. However, what do you think about what's going on with the game now? A lot of stuff has happened since the posts you replied to. Do you have an opinion or any reads on people based on things that have happened in the last 24 hours?

(Also, if you're going to quote giant posts, please only quote the relevant parts and not the entire thing.)

@BBM: I don't have a problem with you. You're participating, scum hunting, and nothing you're doing particularly pings me. I do think you're being too defensive with regards to Prims, though.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade

FFM came back and at least responded to the cases on him, justifying his reasonings. He's still not off the hook completely since he hasn't given any opinion on more recent events and he defended himself a lot more than he actually scum hunted.

I think Paper is scum even if he is legitimately busy with IRL issues. I can sort of overlook not having time to read the thread if he's really that busy, but a vote based on misrep and coming nearly an entire day after the original event (which he had been present for) with absolutely no mention of anything else that person has done since is scummy.

Cam's had his vote on Junko for the longest time but he hasn't been pushing it since his kerfuffle with Makaze. Looking back at his ISO, he has not talked about ANYONE except for Junko, FFM, and Makaze (mostly Makaze), when things other than Makaze were happening when he was around. Tunnel vision is scummy.

Not too sure what to make of Junko anymore. Reviewing his ISO made me realize he's done a lot more than I thought he did and is actually scum hunting a bit. Right now I'd put him in as more of a null read and would like to see more.

Psych, I don't know. I see the basis of the suspicion on him, and his first actual scum hunting post feels off to me. Like, I can't find the word to describe why, but it just doesn't sit well with me. He's not a priority for me right now, I'd put him as a lesser scum read and there are people I'd want lynched before him.

[Junk]

@Walrein I think ATE is like threating to ragequit or something, at least that is what i get from it.

Has BBM explained why he thought the other people besides jo0's case sucked?

[CT075]

##Unvote

##vote boron

I had a hugeass post typed up and then i hit backspace and lost it and i cbf to redo it fml

it was mostly that I feel that boron was active lurking for the first half of the phase (i had three paragraphs worth of examples/explanations but fuck retyping that) and then is only coming back now when there's a slight bit of pressure on her; a lot of her posts have been to use a lot of words to say very little (thus giving the illusion of content)

will remake post eventually

[Sunwoo]

it was mostly that I feel that boron was active lurking for the first half of the phase (i had three paragraphs worth of examples/explanations but fuck retyping that) and then is only coming back now when there's a slight bit of pressure on her; a lot of her posts have been to use a lot of words to say very little (thus giving the illusion of content)

I literally want to punch you for saying that I'm active lurking.

I have arguably been more active and given more of a fuck about this game than anyone else. I have been making posts as much as I can when I'm around and when I actually have stuff to say and things to respond to. I don't mind a "slight bit of pressure" on me but when the cases on me are literally retarded I'm going to call people out on that. And if people are going to ask me how I feel about a certain player when I feel I've already made that clear, I'm going to use as much words as I can to make sure people are going to get the fucking point.

Also, "using a lot of words to say very little" also applies to you, Mr. I'm-didn't-push-the-guy-my-vote-was-on-most-of-the-game-and-tunneled-someone-else-instead-and-ignored-most-of-what's-even-happened-in-the-game". What even is your opinion on Makaze?

[Prims]

I'm having trouble keeping up with this game on account of wanting to focus my attention elsewhere. Sorry.

I don't think either Makaze or FFM is scum, but from a utility perspective I'd rather lynch FFM so he can't be targeted as an easy mislynch later on since a lot of people want him dead for whatever reason (sorry dude). Satisfied keeping my vote down on Paper, destroy all lurkers.

Boron is forgettable not an interesting D1 lynch since she's actually contributing to the game and not likely to be a distraction down the line. Don't really find her that scummy.

Need more from Walrein. Why is Paperblade uninterested town and not uninterested scum? Scum will also do nothing and try to get away with it - in fact if town will let them then it's their best possible strategy. Is BBM's paranoia odd in a scummy way?

[CT075]

Also, "using a lot of words to say very little" also applies to you, Mr. I'm-didn't-push-the-guy-my-vote-was-on-most-of-the-game-and-tunneled-someone-else-instead-and-ignored-most-of-what's-even-happened-in-the-game". What even is your opinion on Makaze?

are you trying to say that i do it therefore it's not bad??

[Sunwoo]

are you trying to say that i do it therefore it's not bad??

I'm saying you're being a hypocrite.

[Sunwoo]

Where did everyone go, seriously? We have less than 24 hours left in D1 and I'm pretty sure we're nowhere near a consolidation.

Makaze (3): j00, Walrein, Darros
Paperblade (3): Prims, Makaze, Boron

FFM (2): Shinori, Junko
Boron (2): Paperblade, Cam
Psych (1): BBM
Walrein (1): FFM
j00 (1): Psych

Not voting: Kay, bladescape, Elieson

If SB's previous votals were correct, then this is the current spread. People who haven't done anything or made a content post in 24 hours should step up and DO SOMETHING.

[Prims]

lol kay lurking

everybody get on paper. go

[CT075]

##unvote

##vote FFM

i won't be around a lot for the day

someone sell me on paper

[CT075]

or makaze but my gut says he's town

[Prims]

Paper sheeped the Makaze vote then went into respond-and-ask-questions-only mode without really doing anything that would further a town agenda (eg, pushing his vote). I couldn't actually tell why he chose to sheep over voting Cam since that's who he expressed the most suspicion toward.

I understand he has RL shit going on but that doesn't change his alignment. It's also a horrible idea to leave a slot like this around in LYLO.

I actually don't care for Kay either since her one post was her answering for another player without dropping a vote or making the point of her question clear.

[Elieson]

Pretty much only up to page 7,so far, [gonna continue on Shinori's Walldump when I wake up] but

---

Yo. According to my role PM, this game's setup is 12/3/1.

##Vote: Makaze

Welcome to non-training mafia, enjoy your stay.

Nonindicative numbers claim. Good to base thoughts off of though. I can bring the proper amount of cleaning supplies now.

Thank you, but welcomes are like roses; if you must give them, it is best to do so without thorns.

I'd sig this, if I could fit more sigs into my sig.

Secondly, I agree with the above poster in that while the unvote itself wasn't really all that suspect (though it was a bit premature), the fact that he left his vote on nobody makes it seem like he's trying to avoid pissing people off. In my experience, mafioso tend to try to avoid confrontation in an attempt to not get people mad enough to lynch them.

I also don't like how the only defense he's attempted is "it's RVS"

It's not scummy to not vote for somebody, however, it ain't protown either. Using this as an argument to find scum may have worked in your neck of the woods, but you're in the land of the Queen, good sir. Pulling votes to feign sides? Them's fighting words.

That RVS bit didn't read as a serious defense to me, because it obviously means nothing anyway. Fite me over it, I dare you!

##Vote: Junko

this is a good vote; seemed way too intent on pushing Darros for fairly routine RVS stuff even though he's played enough games by now.

Mesays this feels like a' early scum-push, like it's forced. Not liking this push of the broom at all.

Uh, bladescape, my point is that FFM is basically voting me over something that basically most people are doing. He says all I'm doing is picking away at three people's posts without giving a read on anyone else? Cool. How is that different or any more scummier that what other people are doing? Likewise, FFM himself has really only given an opinion on the same three people he accused me of "picking away at" plus Walrein, and didn't give a read on anyone else. So much of an improvement, right?

{builds into}

What I'm getting at is that it's odd that you've given an in-depth read of those three while giving short opinions on everybody else. Call it a gut-read if you must.

Boron's got a few stronger reads than others, and she's voicing them. It'd be odd for her to have many more than 3 semi-strong reads at this point in the game.

This is not odd, FFM. Most of the game has not had many, if at all, posts of substance. I'm not going to give in-depth reads of who I think is town. I'm not outing who I think is town in the first place at this stage. So why is it so weird that I'm giving in-depth reads on people who are doing the most things of interest and giving short opinions on people who are either not doing anything currently, haven't done much of substance, or I'm okay with?

Town or scum or ITP, numbers is a ROLE. It's not limited by alignment. My role claim can be confirmed without me having to be necessarily town.

Also, try to think please. If I'm scum and I'm NOT numbers, why would I bullshit random numbers just to make a "believable" claim? The MOMENT my numbers are proven wrong I am immediately drawn into attention that as scum I would not want. You do not fake claim numbers if you have no idea what numbers are.

Second, even if I were scum, that does not mean I have knowledge of whether there is a THIRD PARTY. They're actually not all that common in games. Saying, "yeah, there is a third party" pretty much means that if there is no evidence of a third party then I am also going to paint a target on myself. A target I don't want as scum.

Third, if for some reason I was scum who wanted to fake numbers I didn't have, wouldn't it make more sense to give less specific numbers, such as "there are X people aligned/not aligned with town" instead of being so specific? The more specific the numbers, the less room for deviation you have. So if I was trying to fake numbers I didn't have, why would I lock myself into something so specific?

(Also, something I forgot to out in my initial post. The flavor for my numbers highly implied that the third party in this game is hostile.)

FFM's reasoning there is the same sort of reason that I voted for you in [whatever that game was] where I called you out for being SK after the fact. He's voicing his thoughts, rather than bottling them up and keeping them to himself. I'd rather see him not include the role business in the mop bucket of scum determinants, but calling him out for being scum when he's clearly not basing the entirety of his case on your role isn't something that I support.

I'm waiting for something relevant. I don't have anything to reply to your post, so I'm waiting for more.

Waiting in cooldown for others to do stuff to leap on? There's already some twits bopping around in this game that have done their fair share of traitorous behavior. I say that instead of sitting in the pile of dirt, you pick up a rag and start wiping the scum from your eyes...if that's even possible.

---

Although I didn't quote it, paperblade's not reading that town to me, though I'm basing it more on his style of posts, rather than the content [or lack of] within them. I don't like his 1v1v1 that pointed to Cam being scum for the most clean-cut of waffles, and aside from his post with a Boron vote, it seems like he's looking for reasons to sheep a-la laziness.

As of right now;

Would lynch BBM, Paperblade, Walrein,

Would offer consilidation on Darros, though I need to reread him and finish catching up before i can have a comfortable read on him

Not throwing my vote out yet though, simply because her Majesty would throw me into the keep if I did so willy nilly

[Elieson]

As of right now;

Would lynch BBM, Paperblade, Walrein,

I meant to bold Paperblade as my bigger lynch candidate, but I'm really drowsy now and can't things apparently.

[Junk]

Jo0's boron case is really bad because it seems to be "you are putting votes on people that tend to be wagoned early but you typically make good cases or something,"? What I am confused about is what happened to Makaze? You seemed intent on voting him earlier but then you just seem to all of a sudden just drop the case and case boron for imo pretty silly reasons.

Jo0 do you still think Makaze is scum and if you are down for a boron or BBM lynch why are you not voting them instead?

[Kay]

Sorry, got distracted by things. I've read up to page 8 so far, Darros is scummy not for the unvote but the general panicky defensiveness about everything. I have a vague gut scumread on Makaze, but nothing he's done looks objectively bad to me.

[j00]

Got busy yesterday and a heads up that I'll be away for part of today due to IRL stuff, but I'm gonna be here for a moment rn

Paper has bad content, but reads to me as lazy, can someone explain what makes him so scummy compared to Poly, who also only got a few posts at different times with even less content? Paper spouting vague one-lines D1 is null to me, is there some meta I'm missing?

Junko; I had a post on Makaze right before mentioning BBM and Boron, and yes, I found him worse. Where did it appear that I had dropped it? His latest posts are better and I'm feeling a bit better about him, but among the wagons I still prefer him. Might prefer BBM over him, but he has currently no votes.

About Boron my issue is that her cases are well explained, but she made cases on several players because of one post they made, and two of them was bad cases on her. It feels like she jumped on the first blatantly bad thing she saw when they voted her.

Her content in general is solid, it's just the cases that feel off to me in the way they're initially presented. I don't really agree with Cam's case on her either, since active lurking is definitely not what she's been doing.

Junko, you don't like my case on Boron, what is your opinion on Cam's?

I think Psych said I was the same about Makaze wrt easy cases, but what bugged me about Boron is how quick she was to jump on people.

That said, I don't think Darros' first few posts were scummy, but after he got votes off him he hasn't done any scum hunting and just made some fluffy posts, he's much more of an active lurker than Boron is.

Gonna read a bit more in detail and stuff, but

[j00]

I've got like 5 more minutes to read this over

I agree with j00 that BBM's posts are a bit strange, so BBM is higher on my scum read list, but I also don't like j00 so I don't know how to lean on that or if it's messing with me read.

j00 keeps arguing with Sangyul about a lot of silly reasons for town actions. He complains about her going for an easy case and brings up how FFM had a similar thing yet hardly condemns him. ##Vote j00

Why are you voting me if you actually think BBM is scummier than me?

I believe that Paperblade legitimately has irl issues but I also believe he's scum at this point. The irl issues are probably what caused his first few posts to be so sheepy and worse than normal.

His first few posts were RVS, so which posts do you find scummy?

[BBM]

Paperblade is scum off meta, which is by far the easiest way to tell when Paper is scum. Paper is always worse on D1 than later days, but town Paper on D1 is engaged and asks a lot of questions to his scumreads to build a base to work off on later days. Scum Paper makes votes and sits on them for as long as he can, which is what both his Makaze and Boron votes are/were. I get that Paper is busy but he makes no attempt even when he does post to continue questioning either of them. And he votes Makaze and then votes Boron for attacking Makaze/Darros only for making suboptimal plays. I feel like there should at least have been an attempt at reconciliation between these votes. He also never goes anywhere with the early Cam gut suspicion.

Originally I thought that Paper's initial Makaze vote seemed a little too sheepy and that he'd be more self-conscious of something like that as scum but that can probably be attributed to the irl issues. IIRC in the one MotK game he played, he rolled scum and also had irl stuff at the same time, and this feels kind of similar to that, where I thought on D1 that even scum Paper wouldn't tunnel so much on one guy, but he did.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Paperblade

Not impressed with Elie's first post; it's just pointing out a bunch of small things and there's no reasoning given as to why me, Paperblade, and Walrein are worse than Darros/FFM/Boron even though we all get pretty much the same amount of comments. Also, I guess he might have been working off the most recent votals as of page 7 and not the actually most recent votals, but Darros isn't even a wagon...

I have to go to some wedding events tonight so I won't be here for phase end. I should be here at least for another 4 hours though.

[Elieson]

Trying to cut the fat from the quotes is taking me longer than actually building responses to them. Just finished up to Page 10.

---

I'm going to bed now. If I keep on getting voted I'm totally subbing out.

This is a pretty weak attitude to have, but Terrador literally just did this last game, and he was town. Instead of thinking like this, it's best to just take a break and reread the game from the beginning, rather than keeping up with the most current posts.

basically Boron is right is when she explains why reaction tests suck, it let's you do weird random shit under the same excuse.

Reaction tests that don't benefit the entire town, but benefit the person making the test, are a benefit to town if that person is town. I should know, I do that shit all the time, because there's some people that I legit have a hard time reading. It's not the reaction test that's the problem, it's the justification and results of the reaction test that are key. I swear you know better than this.

This is like the only post of yours that even sticks out at this point too. Just an observation

Don't like FFM's recent posts. There's too much where he talks about scummy people stuff are doing and then dismisses it as newbtown without much of a reason. Junko's also played enough games that I'm not really sure he still classifies as newbtown anyways. I don't like how he singles out Cam for the Junko vote when other people also voted Junko for the same thing (eg me). AtE is probably a nulltell in the end because FFM probably has reason to be frustrated as either alignment, but it doesn't improve my opinion of him either.

Not liking Psych either; he completely misses the point of people attacking him for the Shinori vote. Prodvotes are dumb because people are going to post once they have time, not because one person votes them at some point. It's essentially fake content that isn't going to go anywhere because as soon as the person being prodded posts anything resembling content at all, the vote loses its meaning. I don't like the fearmongering about kills either; 12/3/1 is townsided looking at pure numbers. There was an 11/3/1 game that just ended where town pretty much wrecked. What determined the balance there and what will determine the balance here are roles- and we have no flips to work with at all. It's more fake content.

Psych might be worse than FFM actually; will have to consider more.

Still feels like you're digging for reasons to find FFM scummy. His case isn't the best, but it's not coming out as a scummy case, because it's still D1, and he's under fire as per normal. Reactions and observations seem fitting for the FFM I've seen while hosting. Psych point is fair (though I'll get to my psych read further down this post).

No comments on the Junko stuff though. I'm having a difficult time getting a read on him so far.

Darros, on the other hand, has done things that make sense from a scum perspective. They have done only things that make sense and have not put much pressure on people... Until FFM started acting erratically, then he voted FFM. This is the real kicker, as I explained in an earlier post. Read my ISO. If Sangyul's numbers are correct, then the scum cannot afford to lose a member on the first day. Bussing here is way too risky. Therefore, I have to pick one as my strongest read.

Between the two, I'm more inclined to believe that Darros is scum because his posts are both cautious and logical for scum to do. Let me make this clear so that I don't have to repeat myself to the sheep again: I am not voting Darros because what they did is "especially bad". I am voting Darros because I can get a more solid read on the intent behind his behavior.


I'd also really appreciate it if I could get that content I asked for: Prims, Paperblade, and others... Please chime in. Preferably addressing the intent you read behind things.

This kind of reads as scum to me. Literally everything else on the post reads as pretty town, but that one line looks almost like a slip. Can I get thoughts from others on this? I'm not confident enough to determine a read on this line. (I've also had a meek town read on Maka up until this point).

@Boron: Why is FFM's badcase scummy? You just said his actions are "questionable" which is a buzzword. Why is he scum and not town with bad logic? I don't see scum!FFM forcing this case; it reads to me like he got a gut read on you and couldn't explain it well.

@Psych: If FFM is scummy, why did you go for a prodvote over him? Reads like scum scared of stirring the waters by wagon hopping.

@BBM: You're posting like you do when you're scum just fyi.

Paper is doing this thing where he goes "welp i have a serious vote down time to ignore the person i'm voting and not do anything" and it's a scummy thing.

##Unvote
##Vote: Paperblade

Would not lynch FFM. Attitude problem needs to stop though.
Makaze's responses have been OK enough that I don't feel like continuing to push the case. If anything he seems like a townie who did a Questionable Thing early on because he was new. Would reconsider later down the road, but not interested in lynching him today.

Prims is probably town, and his reads look pretty spot on through this post. I'm totally sheeping this. I support all of the above (including his obvious Middling-townread on Boron).[spoiler=Not quite game related]

oh yeah shinori's huge wallotext^TM without links to referenced posts was terrible to read would lynch 10/10

Yours was worse because it was all quotes with one liner responses to like one bit within the quotes.

##Daykill: BBM

not a gambit

Somehow I feel like that really isn't a gambit so some last reads on the playerlist before I GO TO SLEEP, BRITISH MODS wake up, and I DIE

won't say my role explicitly just in case it is a gambit but town Watcher is probably more likely than in most setups IMO

Annoyed at Prims but I don't think he's rash enough as scum to use a dayvig shot this early, especially in a game with a scumteam of 3p. IIRC in Villains 2, a MotK game where we were buddies in a small team, he wanted me to save my dayvig rather than use it for towncred to shoot a scummy target. Although that one was hidden and this wasn't so he might have considered it worth it to eliminate a good player at a time when they hadn't gotten into the game yet. Dunno yet but I guess still leaning town bc I feel like he would be aware that a game with a small scumteam is very much more likely to have a scum dayvig. Also @above post- because when you active lurk you're less likely to draw fire from the SK?

scum meta on Paper is legit; didn't want to outright say this and have him purposely play to thwart it, but Paper will probably respond to the vote by Prims by a flurry of content that seems good. If he's scum, as soon as Prims unvotes he'll go back to lurking.

very conflicted on FFM; I feel like after seeing how much people townread the Terra slot in FFTA after the ragesub he might actually try to WIFOM it as scum. Also I read his posts, have one read on them, come back, and get another. meh dunno the first time I was like "Psych might be worse" but then I didn't vote, I was kind of waiting for more people to give their feelings about him and was going to unvote if they both said he was scummy because I felt like that'd be too many people agreeing he was scum. But then Prims said he was obvtown and I unvoted anyways and idk why exactly

Psych is scum.

Boron has overall a good presence and seems to be making good points for the most part. Probably town; not unmemorable enough to be scum.

Walrein: too sheepy to be scum

Kay: step it up; one question post that has no actual feelings at all? It's not even the weekend! Could be scum but the last time she was actually scum I was townreading her ;_;

Makaze: gut town imo

j00: don't really know

Cam: I feel like since he's come back he's been a lot more active and his play has been just overall better everywhere. As such it's difficult for me to judge differences between his scum and town play.

Eury: didn't read that shit

bladescape: yeah idk. Very different from his last game but he's more than competent enough to way better if he was scum. Probably just busy or whatever regardless of alignment

Poly: playing to scum meta

Darros: gut town but like Cam I have nothing really to compare

Junko: probably town in the end; not playing anything like Training despite having better people to sheep than in that game

(Plus)+

well it was you and it was a dayvig shot but somehow I just had a feeling it was real

(Equals)=

This feels like a genuine reaction, but not a genuine BBTown reaction. That list post has so many gut-thoughts (cam, poly, junko, makaze) and waffles (kay, blade, darros). Why mention this, even if you're confident that you actually got dayshot? Literally first reads on FFM and Paper (and Psych) are the biggest things that you've explained, the rest is pretty weak.

---

I feel like Psych literally has no reads. He has /thoughts/ but not /reads. I skimmed ahead with a Psych ISO to confirm my thoughts, and aside from his scumread on j00 (which is one line, based on j00 calling out his town!Makaze read), there's little foundation for this scumread.

BBM and Paperblade are just playing off to me. Paperblade's got sheepy content at best, and is literally doing nothing of value. BBM feels off of his meta, but is also just exhibiting strange behavior to the Dayshot that just doesn't sit well with me. Also, i read the latest response from BBM; I have an overwhelmingly strong townread on FFM, and an overall null-slightscum read on Darros. Neither of these have changed to this point.

I'm comfortable with this for now.

##Vote Paperblade

[j00]

Elie wrt reaction tests: yeah I know some of them are useful, but spent a big part of my last game arguing about this, don't feel like doing it again

I've also got a party I have to attend, so I'm gonna throw my vote on Paper too. I've heard about scum!paper being notoriously bad and it's the only wagon with momentum, and better have a secured lynch than no lynch.

##unvote

##vote: Paperblade

This should put him at 6 votes, which is enough for end of day lynch, 8 is hammer

[BBM]

I don't understand why wouldn't I out all my gut thoughts if I was town and I thought I was dying?