Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[eclipse]

eclipse I don't like that you vote people for being useless either, but you're towntelling pretty hard, and therefore I'm not going to vote you because I don't think you're scum. If I voted you because I thought you were being useless to town, THEN I'd be hypocritical. I didn't really want to mention it at first though because it would sound like passive-aggressive fluff and I don't want to do that.

Let me also bring your attention to

If you don't like it, no matter how much you think I'm town, call it out. If you're that certain I'm town, then I'm probably not gonna get lynched over it. Also, that wasn't passive-aggressive, that was me pointing out a contradiction. I'd brought up the exact same point much earlier, and yet you hadn't said anything about it; thus, I thought it was weird.

Xinnindy: THANK YOU. I chew out people who use that as a defense. Intentionally messing with my reads is something I do not appreciate in general. While emotions are a null read, name-calling is not - it just makes it look like you're dismissing the argument without addressing it. As an example, lynching me solely because I sounded really irritated in my last wall would be an extremely weak reason to do so.

[eclipse]

A clarification on the "content in spoilers" thing - it wasn't by itself a reason I was voting Xinnidy. I thought her content was decent but noted she often put it in spoiler tags (for aesthetic reasons, I've found out). When she was answering the filler accusations she didn't bring that up, which made me think the overreaction was strange because townie ORs tend to have a good counterpoint behind it. I don't know if I've made my thought process very clear.

Xinnidy, I've explained why Proto's appeal seemed genuine to me, and so by extension made you less likely to be scum. Timing be damned, I don't think I should keep my vote on someone when I'm no longer confident that they're scum.

Eclipse, Leder's thing was a reference to Presidential Mafia (read it - it's practically a brochure compared to this game!) Don't let the lack of exclamations marks fool you.

Actually. . .you lost me. Also, I didn't play in Presidential Mafia.

[Percivalé]

I don't want to think about Presidential Mafia ;;;;;;

[Prims]

Also, I didn't play in Presidential Mafia.

Congratulations!

Kay (4) - BBM, Reinfleche, Serious Bananas, Xinnidy

Proto (3) - scorri, NekoRex, Paulina

Helios (2) - Proto, eclipse

Serious Bananas (2) - Balcerzak, Bluedoom

Xinnidy (2) - Kay, Helios

NekoRex (1) - Blitz

Paulina (1) - Levity

scorri (1) - Baldrick

Voteless Scum (3): Shinori, Sho, Snike

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. You have a bit under ~13 hours left in the day.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Priam

[Baldrick]

Basically, a townie overreacts when someone's wrong about them, and a scum overreacts when they can't rebut something any better way. I saw a good point Xinnidy could've used, and since he didn't, I decided the overreaction was the latter case.

I know, that's why I said to read it :3 Long story short, she was revealed to be death miller or scum, and when I couldn't get her lynched I lost my temper and declared if she survived and was scum, I'd try to get her lynched every game we played.

[Baldrick]

Incidentally, if I've got it right, Xinnidy was trying to appear scummy in that overreaction? So I was right, but for an entirely incorrect reason.

[eclipse]

Basically, a townie overreacts when someone's wrong about them, and a scum overreacts when they can't rebut something any better way. I saw a good point Xinnidy could've used, and since he didn't, I decided the overreaction was the latter case.

I know, that's why I said to read it :3 Long story short, she was revealed to be death miller or scum, and when I couldn't get her lynched I lost my temper and declared if she survived and was scum, I'd try to get her lynched every game we played.

While I disagree, it wanders into mafia theory territory (I'll explain this at night, if you so choose), and we both agree that Xinnidy's not being lynched at the moment.

So, night-lynch Bizz because chiming in on a joke that I wasn't even a part of is terrible, and I've had too much chocolate to be rational at the moment?

[BBM]

I don't think that Paulina is scum because I think voting people for being unhelpful to the town is valid because being unhelpful is something scum do. So I don't agree that it's not scumhunting. Her posts for the most part also show a lot of scumhunting effort for her first NOC game, and most of the stuff she's said that I thought was weird was more gameplay theory/how to play in general rather than genuine scummy stuff.

[Percivalé]

There is such a thing as being unintentionally unhelpful to the town, too. You have to take it all in context. It just sounds like to me Proto is trying to be helpful, he just doesn't know how.

[BBM]

I agree that being unhelpful =/= automatically being scum, but what I was trying to say was that it's a valid reason for voting for somebody, and I don't see voting someone for it as a lack of scumhunting.

[Percivalé]

Maybe what I said was kind of extreme, but it's more of a general example. It's how the pattern sort of works in my head. The way Paulina defended it makes me think she's not scum, though, so I'm going to have to think about where to go next. I really do think a Proto or Xin lynch will end badly, though. At least I know that a Xin lynch will.

[Percivalé]

okay I guess thinking it over an SB lynch might not be too bad. I feel like I don't have enough reasons to support that, though. His reaction to Prims's claim is a moot point if Bal really is town, but we don't know if he's town so there's that, too. There was something SB did with a vote that made me feel odd but I can't remember what it is.

[Blitz]

I just read through the pages I hadn't caught up on and realized I am cannot concentrate on too many topics at once and thus would like people to ask me stuff if they want my thoughts on something

starting up with

@Eclipse, yes I did think Marth was scum (but I never really had any proof other than meta) because of all the stuff that happened, the way he all of a sudden had his powers taken seemed more like a way to keep himself away from from giving results while at the same time getting away with claiming, but like I said, no proof.

Now after what has been brought to the table, I don't really know if I should go after him at the moment, but I will still consider him a good option to be scum.

I really don't think Marth was actually shot because of

Wait, if you protected Marth from being killed, why the hell would the mafia mess with his role as well?

what SB said here makes sense, unless multiball is in play OR unless Marth is faking (which is always a good possibility from my pov)

Neko's forced claim was sorta my fault, but then again, he really wasn't of much use and since there was no other counter claims, I will believe his claim for now.

so, unvote

anyways

as for the Bizz, Proto and Xinnidy thing, we should stay away from voting them, BUT if even one of them turns up scum, we should go after the other two.( but I somehow doubt they would want to pull a gamble like that)

I can't remember who it was that said this, but someone said it was a bad idea to clear people based on roles, but my point about using Marth's role (if it is a town role that is) was for him to check roles and keep in case on of them is about to be lynched, he says they are very likely clear and we move on to someone else without having the roles being claimed.

the role deleting thing is very confusing and I really have no input on it

@SB, if I am such a great scum read of yours, why don't you come after me?

well, let me taunt you to come after me

##Vote: SB

the read on me and Neko were the main reads you had given and now all of a sudden you go after Kay saying she has less content than other, but are better than Rockers, however I fail to see any earlier suspicion on Rocker from you. therefore AI think your Kay vote is totally opportunistic.

@Sho, you should really do something other than answering questions about your role like saying who should be lynched from your pov and why.

like I said earlier, if I missed something let me know and also, my activity will drop from now because of the end of my classes (expect me every 2 out of 3 days) and sorry for the inconvenience.

[charlie_]

@SB, if I am such a great scum read of yours, why don't you come after me?

well, let me taunt you to come after me

##Vote: SB

the read on me and Neko were the main reads you had given and now all of a sudden you go after Kay saying she has less content than other, but are better than Rockers, however I fail to see any earlier suspicion on Rocker from you. therefore AI think your Kay vote is totally opportunistic.

@Sho, you should really do something other than answering questions about your role like saying who should be lynched from your pov and why.

like I said earlier, if I missed something let me know and also, my activity will drop from now because of the end of my classes (expect me every 2 out of 3 days) and sorry for the inconvenience.

I'm not voting you because I think Kay is more likely to flip scum. I can't vote for multiple people at once, and even if I did vote for you 1 person isn't going to drive a lynch without a cop guilty or something along those lines. I said I was scumreading Rocker here. And Kay's play hasn't alleviated suspicion. I didn't bring up the Rocker thing for a while since I wanted to give Kay some time to possibly show that she was town, but I don't get that impression. Kay is my biggest scumread that has a possibility to get lynched, so I'm not going to vote you when there's no chance of a lynch on you.

Bold: I know I did something similar with BBM and Manix N0 but that's because it was N0 and I had little to work with. I don't like that statement however because there's plenty of content to work with so I don't see why you're voting Kay now. What if Kay claims a good role? Then what?

Bad rolefishing is bad. ##Unvote ##Vote: SB

I'm not voting them so I can find their roles, I'm voting them because I find them scummy. Docs are commonplace, and I have no reason to pursue the lynch of an uncced doc. I already stated I found Rocker scummy earlier and Kay is failing to leave an impression on me.

If all humans are annihilated, that's OK. It's their destiny.

[Blitz]

iirc, Kay also happened to think you would make a good Nightkill for Balc and it seems more like you wanted her gone because of her suspecting you, care to expound on that?

[charlie_]

Where did you get that impression from? People tend to cross votes and suspicions, it happens. Kay scumspecting me has no effect on my of her.

[Percivalé]

I don't know about Proto but I am like 97% sure Xin will flip town.

[Kay]

Okay, Xinnidy's explanation of her overreaction makes sense, and she seems to have cooled off a lot and is back to playing sensibly, and whatever's up with her, Proto, and Bizz, it sounds like they can be left alone for now. I think some of you guys are missing my point about Paulina. It's not that she's voting Proto for not being useful, it's that instead of giving reasons to suspect Proto and leaving it at that, she has to add that she doesn't care if it's a mislynch. If she's confident he's scum, why tack that on?

##Unvote

##Vote: Paulina

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

First of all because we havent wasted enough time talking about role deleter, lets do it some more.

I find it unlikely that the deleter is both scum AND temporarily. Why? I WAS BLOODY NOT SHOT LAST NIGHT. You'd think mafia would kill me should they have reason to believe I could regain my abilities. Also thanks a lot for yelling around I likely can regain my role. Doc on me pls~

As for the lynch, fuck all kinds of duck.

I am not pleased with the Xinnidy wagon in the slightest. Based on it I find Kay slightly scummy. Also Helios because metametameta.

I hold my vote for now as my reads aren't strong enough for me to vote on them

[Kay]

I consider it more likely that the role deletor may or may not be temporary, since the flavor was different. Marth's wings were clipped, yours vanished entirely, right? Maybe it's a chance thing, maybe it depends on the role targeted, maybe it's only permanent once, idk. But I think it's something like that.

[BBM]

@Kay- Why would she tack it on as scum? It makes her an obvious target after his lynch if she said something like "I don't care if he's town" before lynching him. Saying something like that is not something either alignment should do. It shows her inexperience, but I don't think it shows her scumminess. And you still haven't defended yourself at all. >_>

[BBM]

Kay (4) - BBM, Reinfleche, Serious Bananas, Xinnidy

Proto (3) - scorri, NekoRex, Paulina

Helios (2) - Proto, eclipse

Serious Bananas (2) - Balcerzak, Bluedoom, Blitz

Xinnidy (2) - Kay, Helios

Paulina (2) - Levity, Kay

scorri (1) - Baldrick

Voteless Scum (3): Shinori, Sho, Snike

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to hammer. You have a bit under 3 hours left in the day.

Sho are you serious time's almost up and the leading lynch target has only 4 votes. Vote for someone. >_>

Kay if you're here you should claim.

[scorri]

##Unvote

##Vote:Kay

Two reasons for this: I want to prevent scum from forcing a tie which leads to no lynch and also I feel that it is possible for Kay to flip scum. The following stuck out to me on a reread:

Okay, Xinnidy isn't a player I remember seeing lose her cool that way in the past, but then again, she hasn't really played much. I think we can both agree that it would help if she would get back here and make a post with more content and less sarcasm.

I don't really like how scorri popped in to mention a common suspicion with common reasoning, and not wanting to be on any wagons sounds too much like not wanting to be held responsible for a mislynch.

I'm gonna propose that everybody list who they think would be the second best lynch, in addition to their primary suspicion (who they should be voting for, or at least making it clear why they aren't voting for them), because a lot of people seem to only want one person lynched and that won't be very useful. SB in my case.

Uses meta on Xinnidy, makes a comment on me that maybe makes it seem like she finds me suspicious but doesn't commit to anything, and then asks people to list scum reads which might seem useful, but is really more like active lurking since it seems to contribute things but then she doesn't actually give reasons for why she finds SB scummy.

This, plus some other stuff that I don't have time to go into right now are making me suspect her and I want a lynch today.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

If only to insure no tie

##Vote:Kay

I am not exactly happy with the lynch but she is scummy so I roll with it

[Shinori]

I think I'd actually prefer a Paulina lynch to be frank. I'll vote for kay though just to insure we get the lynch.

I'll be gone for most of the day most likely because me and my father are hanging out together since my siblings are away for a day and a half. I'll check back periodically to post what I need to and to see if Kay claims. But I won't be posting anything big until tonight.

Anyways:

##Vote: Kay

Also if nothing ends up happening with this proto/Xinnidy stuff by tomorrow I think this stuff should be questioned because it seems to me like xinnidy, proto, and Levy have been buddying up for no apparent reason.